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Vedas 106 – ‘tat ekam’ (That One), ‘devas’ (Powers of Light) and ‘dasyus’ (Powers of darkness) 1 July 2021

Vedas 105 discussed six key teachings of the Vedas. This post, Vedas106, will discuss the first 2 teachings in greater detail.

The Vedas declare the existence of the Supreme Spirit or Person, referred to as Purusha, in Rig Veda, Sukta #90 of the 10th Mandala (RV 10.90) and also as ‘tat ēkam’ (meaning, That One) in many other RV mantras. The Supreme Spirit or Person or Purusha or ‘tat ekam’ is aided by ‘devas’, from the Sanskrit word, ‘div’ to shine or to throw light, hence ‘devas’ are powers of light (and Truth), who are also known as ‘angas’ or ‘limbs’ of the Purusha, if Supreme Spirit is considered as a Purusha. Or, as ‘cosmic energies’ if ‘tat ekam’ is treated as Supreme Energy. ‘devas’ are translated as gods in the English language. Names like Agni, Indra, Soma, Surya, Aditi, Saraswathi are used to refer to these devas. Analogous to powers of light or devas, there are also ‘dasyus’ or powers of darkness (and falsehood) with names like Vrtra, Vala, Pani etc. who try to prevent the help devas and tat ekam want to provide to all beings from reaching them. The Vedas describe the devas engaging the dasyus in symbolic battles, overpowering them and releasing to the human beings the energies hidden or prevented from reaching the human beings by the dasyus.

The Purusha or That One is both transcendent and immanent. Both these words are difficult to define but the following expanded discussion of the terms will help understand these terms correctly: transcendent: knowledge beyond the limits of human experiences, or, transcends or exceeds whatever imagined or extrapolated using one’s senses etc.
immanent: existing or remaining within, hence will also be stated as permeates all aspects of manifestation since the Purusha or That One exists within every being and aspect of manifestation.

The Vedas say furthermore that there is nothing else in this universe except the Purusha, or That One (‘tat ēkam’) or the Supreme Spirit (or Supreme Person). Since Purusha is immanent, and permeates all aspects of manifestation, it can also be stated differently as Purusha or That One desired to become many, by entering into the inner beings of each and every one of the many. Thus, the Vedas do not deny the existence of the Many because the One has become the Many. They give equal importance to the One and the Many.

That One serves as the creator and Controller, aided by the devas, of the myriad events going on in the Cosmos with clockwork precision and accuracy.

Each deva has a specific function and an associated personality endowed with certain powers to carry out the function. These devas act harmoniously. Rishis regarded these devas as their friends and associates.

Sri Aurobindo explains that the deva Agni in the esoteric sense stands for the principle of aspiration in human beings to achieve higher things than their present state. Progress is not possible without aspiring for it. Hence only if Agni is active in the individuals, such persons will have successes in their aspirations; also, as is usually the case, Agni recognizes which other deva power is also required for the person’s aspiration to succeed and brings those devas also to the worshipper of Agni.

One can establish a conscious relationship with each cosmic power by chanting the Veda Mantras for the deva. Consequently, that power enters the human being and grows in him/her like a plant. There are no strong barriers between devas. They are all aspects of ‘tat ēkam’. One can establish conscious relationships with as many devas as one wishes. They all work together and help the human beings.

Each of the gods (or devas) mentioned above, such as Agni, Indra, Vayu, Surya, Saraswathi, has a unique psychological power and personality which helps the human being develop that power. Since all these gods work harmoniously, human beings can seek the help of all these gods if they so choose. The two major deities of Rig Veda are Agni and Indra (with 2,000 and 2,500 mantras, respectively, for them out of the total of 10,552 mantras in Rig Veda). Agni and Indra and their ‘psychological powers’ are:
Agni: Divine Will: Aspiration and Will Power; Strength, Calmness, Happiness.
Indra: Divine Mind: Intelligence & Clarity of thinking; Correct Actions Achiever

‘Dasyus’: Analogous to devas is another group of powers, known as dasyus, or powers of darkness and falsehood or demons or negative energies who try to dissuade the flow of positive energies coming down from above from reaching the human beings. Devas battle the dasyus and recover the hidden energies in the cavities of the human being and make these energies available to the human beings. Rig Veda describes these battles that are not physical battles but symbolic battles that go on in the subtle bodies of the human beings. One can visualize the presence of dasyus in all of us as the ‘shad ripus’ ( the six negative traits of ‘kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, matsarya’) in ourselves. Without inviting devas to our inner beings, our working hard to remove our ‘shad ripus’ are not likely to meet with success because the dasyus are very strong and the shad ripus will not leave us. The purpose of studying the Vedas and chant the Veda mantras for the devas is to invite the devas into our inner being so that devas will fight the dasyus in us and help us move away from our ‘shad ripus’, the life of darkness (of dasyus) to life of ‘light’ of devas and start the process of divinizing our life.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Vedas 105 discussed six key teachings of the Vedas. This post, Vedas106, will discuss the first 2 teachings in greater detail.

The Vedas declare the existence of the Supreme Spirit or Person, referred to as Purusha, in Rig Veda, Sukta #90 of the 10th Mandala (RV 10.90) and also as ‘tat ēkam’ (meaning, That One) in many other RV mantras. The Supreme Spirit or Person or Purusha or ‘tat ekam’ is aided by ‘devas’, from the Sanskrit word, ‘div’ to shine or to throw light, hence ‘devas’ are powers of light (and Truth), who are also known as ‘angas’ or ‘limbs’ of the Purusha, if Supreme Spirit is considered as a Purusha. Or, as ‘cosmic energies’ if ‘tat ekam’ is treated as Supreme Energy. ‘devas’ are translated as gods in the English language. Names like Agni, Indra, Soma, Surya, Aditi, Saraswathi are used to refer to these devas. Analogous to powers of light or devas, there are also ‘dasyus’ or powers of darkness (and falsehood) with names like Vrtra, Vala, Pani etc. who try to prevent the help devas and tat ekam want to provide to all beings from reaching them. The Vedas describe the devas engaging the dasyus in symbolic battles, overpowering them and releasing to the human beings the energies hidden or prevented from reaching the human beings by the dasyus.

The Purusha or That One is both transcendent and immanent. Both these words are difficult to define but the following expanded discussion of the terms will help understand these terms correctly: transcendent: knowledge beyond the limits of human experiences, or, transcends or exceeds whatever imagined or extrapolated using one’s senses etc.
immanent: existing or remaining within, hence will also be stated as permeates all aspects of manifestation since the Purusha or That One exists within every being and aspect of manifestation.

The Vedas say furthermore that there is nothing else in this universe except the Purusha, or That One (‘tat ēkam’) or the Supreme Spirit (or Supreme Person). Since Purusha is immanent, and permeates all aspects of manifestation, it can also be stated differently as Purusha or That One desired to become many, by entering into the inner beings of each and every one of the many. Thus, the Vedas do not deny the existence of the Many because the One has become the Many. They give equal importance to the One and the Many.

That One serves as the creator and Controller, aided by the devas, of the myriad events going on in the Cosmos with clockwork precision and accuracy.

Each deva has a specific function and an associated personality endowed with certain powers to carry out the function. These devas act harmoniously. Rishis regarded these devas as their friends and associates.

Sri Aurobindo explains that the deva Agni in the esoteric sense stands for the principle of aspiration in human beings to achieve higher things than their present state. Progress is not possible without aspiring for it. Hence only if Agni is active in the individuals, such persons will have successes in their aspirations; also, as is usually the case, Agni recognizes which other deva power is also required for the person’s aspiration to succeed and brings those devas also to the worshipper of Agni.

One can establish a conscious relationship with each cosmic power by chanting the Veda Mantras for the deva. Consequently, that power enters the human being and grows in him/her like a plant. There are no strong barriers between devas. They are all aspects of ‘tat ēkam’. One can establish conscious relationships with as many devas as one wishes. They all work together and help the human beings.

Each of the gods (or devas) mentioned above, such as Agni, Indra, Vayu, Surya, Saraswathi, has a unique psychological power and personality which helps the human being develop that power. Since all these gods work harmoniously, human beings can seek the help of all these gods if they so choose. The two major deities of Rig Veda are Agni and Indra (with 2,000 and 2,500 mantras, respectively, for them out of the total of 10,552 mantras in Rig Veda). Agni and Indra and their ‘psychological powers’ are:
Agni: Divine Will: Aspiration and Will Power; Strength, Calmness, Happiness.
Indra: Divine Mind: Intelligence & Clarity of thinking; Correct Actions Achiever

‘Dasyus’: Analogous to devas is another group of powers, known as dasyus, or powers of darkness and falsehood or demons or negative energies who try to dissuade the flow of positive energies coming down from above from reaching the human beings. Devas battle the dasyus and recover the hidden energies in the cavities of the human being and make these energies available to the human beings. Rig Veda describes these battles that are not physical battles but symbolic battles that go on in the subtle bodies of the human beings. One can visualize the presence of dasyus in all of us as the ‘shad ripus’ ( the six negative traits of ‘kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, matsarya’) in ourselves. Without inviting devas to our inner beings, our working hard to remove our ‘shad ripus’ are not likely to meet with success because the dasyus are very strong and the shad ripus will not leave us. The purpose of studying the Vedas and chant the Veda mantras for the devas is to invite the devas into our inner being so that devas will fight the dasyus in us and help us move away from our ‘shad ripus’, the life of darkness (of dasyus) to life of ‘light’ of devas and start the process of divinizing our life.
I have a question here.

Is it mandatory to invoke/invite Devas(Light Beings) to "assist" humans?

What if someone wants to just pray directly to the Source(That One/Tat Ekam).

It is still possible isn't it?

There are religions that have the concept of Malaika(Angels) stemming from the root word malak which means "messenger, envoy, deputy, superintendent,powerful one etc"


In some other schools of thoughts, the believe in existence of Angels is present but they are there to guide humans but they are not to be invoked/invited.

In fact the description of Angels and Devas seem remarkably similar as in this:
Angels are created from light. The Arabic word for angel is malak. According to its root form, malak means “messenger,” “deputy,” “envoy,” “superintendent,” and “powerful one.” The root meaning also implies descent from a high place. Having refined or subtle bodies of light, angels move very rapidly and permeate or penetrate all realms of existence.

The Messenger of Allah said: ‘The angels are created from light, just as the jinn are created from smokeless fire and mankind is created from what you have been told about.’
(Muslim)
All praise belongs to Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth, Who employs the angels as messengers, having wings, two, three and four.
Surah Al-Fatir (Ch. 35, v. 2)
"There are various classes of angels. One class is engaged in constant worship; another worships by working. Since there is one angel to represent every kind of creature and present its service and worship to the Divine Court, the Prophet’s, upon him be peace and blessings, description of the angels is entirely reasonable and true. According to him, there are angels with 40,000 heads, each with 40,000 mouths, and 40,000 praises sung by 40,000 tongues in each mouth. This Prophetic tradition means that angels serve universal purposes, and that some natural creatures worship God with 40,000 heads in 40,000 ways. "

The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
[ Quran 70:04]
They are also free of such negative qualities as envy, rancor, and enmity, and from all lusts and animal appetites found in human beings and jinn. They have no gender, do not eat or drink, and do not feel hunger, thirst, or tiredness. Although they receive no wages for their worship, they derive special pleasure from carrying out God’s commands, delight in being near to Him, and receive some sort of spiritual pleasure from their worship. Praise, worship, recitation of God’s Names, and glorification of Him are their nourishment, as are light and sweet fragrances."

Taken from Malaika or Angels https://islamic-dictionary.tumblr.com/post/5005151674




My question is can one directly just contemplate on That One/God/Source without the need to invoke/invite the Devas, that is we understand they are there to "align "us but we choose focus on the Source since they(Devas) also are from the Source?
 
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R
Thanks Renuka for the question.

I shall confine myself to what I have understood from the Vedas.

RV Mantra, 1.164.46, has the 3rd pada line, "ekam sad viprah bahudha vadanti" with the meaning; Sages call the "one being" the "ekam sad" or "tat ekam" in many ways - Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Yama, Matarishwan - these are the many names in the other padas of the same mantra used as an example.

RV Mantra (1.1.5) states that Agni is "kavi kratu" (divine will power). There are over 2000 mantra for Agni out of 10,552 total Mantras in RV.

The essence of all these mantras and how Rishis have experienced are in the "Vedas 106 post". From the 1.164.46 mantra, we say sages call "tat ekam" by different names. So, in that sense, when you address and invite Agni, you are addressing the Supreme or That One. When you consider (1.1.5), you are inviting Agni and Agni's specific power of "divine will power".

To the knower or the more deeply involved Veda practitioner, Agni & 'tat ekam' are the same and no problems for that deeper Veda practitioner.

To the beginning Veda student human being, he/she is inviting Agni, an easier conceptualizable deva, however or whatever forms he/she is conceiving Agni - as fire or as 'jataragni' or in whichever form - and not the all encompassing and super powerful 'tat ekam'. Which makes it easier for the beginner.

By such inviting, the deva (Agni) or tat ekam is going to place an emanation of its power into the subtle body of the worshipper (beginner or advanced practitioner as the case may be). Note the emphasis here is for the emanation of the "divine psychological power" possessed by the deva or tat ekam, which is going to grow as the practitioner continues satvic living and chanting of Veda Mantras. Whether deva placed the emanation or tat ekam placed the emanation becomes moot, is not?

I prefer to leave it here.

Hope this helps.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Thanks Renuka for the question.

I shall confine myself to what I have understood from the Vedas.

RV Mantra, 1.164.46, has the 3rd pada line, "ekam sad viprah bahudha vadanti" with the meaning; Sages call the "one being" the "ekam sad" or "tat ekam" in many ways - Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Yama, Matarishwan - these are the many names in the other padas of the same mantra used as an example.

RV Mantra (1.1.5) states that Agni is "kavi kratu" (divine will power). There are over 2000 mantra for Agni out of 10,552 total Mantras in RV.

The essence of all these mantras and how Rishis have experienced are in the "Vedas 106 post". From the 1.164.46 mantra, we say sages call "tat ekam" by different names. So, in that sense, when you address and invite Agni, you are addressing the Supreme or That One. When you consider (1.1.5), you are inviting Agni and Agni's specific power of "divine will power".

To the knower or the more deeply involved Veda practitioner, Agni & 'tat ekam' are the same and no problems for that deeper Veda practitioner.

To the beginning Veda student human being, he/she is inviting Agni, an easier conceptualizable deva, however or whatever forms he/she is conceiving Agni - as fire or as 'jataragni' or in whichever form - and not the all encompassing and super powerful 'tat ekam'. Which makes it easier for the beginner.

By such inviting, the deva (Agni) or tat ekam is going to place an emanation of its power into the subtle body of the worshipper (beginner or advanced practitioner as the case may be). Note the emphasis here is for the emanation of the "divine psychological power" possessed by the deva or tat ekam, which is going to grow as the practitioner continues satvic living and chanting of Veda Mantras. Whether deva placed the emanation or tat ekam placed the emanation becomes moot, is not?

I prefer to leave it here.

Hope this helps.
Somehow it seems like the Deva though also arises from Tat Ekam becomes the intermediary and one is always sucked into this portal of just not be able to move on beyond the Deva state.

There have been schools of thoughts in India itself for eg Bauddha Dharma which acknowledges the Devas and their polar opposites ( Mara) BUT totally by passes the need to be in constant ritualistic contact with the Devas and totally connect with Tat Ekam...its not as easy path but totally possible.


Vedanta itself by passes the need to have an intermediary and to also connect with Tat Ekam.

Why is it always so impossible for Vedic practitioners to just step outside of this portal?
It seems so binding to sattva when sattva itself is a state of bondage.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sir,

You wrote:

To the beginning Veda student human being, he/she is inviting Agni, an easier conceptualizable deva, however or whatever forms he/she is conceiving Agni - as fire or as 'jataragni' or in whichever form - and not the all encompassing and super powerful 'tat ekam'. Which makes it easier for the beginner.

I can't help comparing it with

John 14:6 – “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.”


I guess Jesus( pbuh) too was saying that if one goes through him its easier for the beginner to eventually access The Father.

Now is the big question..
Can one go beyond the Devas and Jesus?
John 10: 30 says The Father and I are One..so eventually its all One..but a beginner goes through Jesus( pbuh) to have a smoother guidance.

So in the Vedas does a beginner have the option to NOT go through the Devas?
 
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OP
OP
R
Somehow it seems like the Deva though also arises from Tat Ekam becomes the intermediary and one is always sucked into this portal of just not be able to move on beyond the Deva state.

There have been schools of thoughts in India itself for eg Bauddha Dharma which acknowledges the Devas and their polar opposites ( Mara) BUT totally by passes the need to be in constant ritualistic contact with the Devas and totally connect with Tat Ekam...its not as easy path but totally possible.


Vedanta itself by passes the need to have an intermediary and to also connect with Tat Ekam.

Why is it always so impossible for Vedic practitioners to just step outside of this portal?
It seems so binding to sattva when sattva itself is a state of bondage.
Thanks Renuka for the further discussion of the point.

I reply as follows:

1. As stated in my previous reply discussion, RV (1.164.46) statement, "ekam sad viprah bahudha vadanthi", meaning, sages speak of 'ekam sad' (One Truth) or 'tat ekam' (That One) in many ways. The other padas of the same RV Mantra state the many names as that of devas, Agni, Indra, Mitra and Varuna, Matarishwan etc.

Again, as stated in my previous reply discussion, according to the Vedas and our Rishis, each deva has all the powers of "That one" and each deva is also known for specific psychological powers, like Agni as "kavikratu" as in RV (1.1.5)

Perhaps your question arose in your mind by assuming or accepting for a fact that 'devas' are the "intermediaries'. I have not stated si in any of my posts nor any Veda Mantra or Rishi, based on my research and understanding, has said so. I do not wish to respond to statements like other Indian thoughts of Buddhists or other religions because I have not studied those. I would like to limit my statements to what I have studied and researched. Moreover, as repeatedly stated by me, I wish to confine all discussions in these posts to sharing the knowledge and expertise on the Vedas.

2. A second point made by me, again in the previous reply posting to you, is that these are all experimentally verified by the Rishis stating so based on their lived experiences - not one Rishi but nearly 400 Rishis who lived over a period of 2,000 years or so. in other words, different Rishis in different periods of time verifying the same facts - a classic requirement for experimental science theory verification. And when the recommendation to follow that road map of the Rishis is suggested and replied to questions, getting worried over whether such psychological power will be provided to the seeker by an "unstated in the Vedas " of an "intermediary" appears to me as counterproductive to the seeker following the Rishi advice to "invite the devas" into one's inner being and spiritualize one's life.

I prefer to stop here. Hope this helps.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
In Understanding Vedas 105 thread you had written this in response to my opinion that the Deva-Dasyu is like the Angel -Devil concept of Abrahamic school of thought

You had written...
"For example, Christianity requires the 'acceptance of Jesus Christ as Saviour' as a pre-requisite"


So you are able to decipher some concepts in the other sampradayas too.


Since you had stated that there is a pre requisite of accepting Jesus( pbuh)..thats why I asked you how different is it from accepting the Devas as a pre requisite and also accepting the evidence based findings of the Rishis for a beginner to ultimately experience The Tat Ekam.


So it does seem the same finally.

If Jesus( pbuh) states

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me...

It almost sounds like..
The Devas are the way, the truth and the life, beginners comes to Tat Ekam through the Devas.

Then finally when Jesus( pbuh) says.
The Father and I are One.

Again it sounds like

" The Devas and Tat Ekam are One for its Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti"

Anyway its fine if you do not wish to answer..usually Rajiv Malhotra is into answering questions related to other religions.

Regards
 
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OP
OP
R
In Understanding Vedas 105 thread you had written this in response to my opinion that the Deva-Dasyu is like the Angel -Devil concept of Abrahamic school of thought

You had written...
"For example, Christianity requires the 'acceptance of Jesus Christ as Saviour' as a pre-requisite"


So you are able to decipher some concepts in the other sampradayas too.


Since you had stated that there is a pre requisite of accepting Jesus( pbuh)..thats why I asked you how different is it from accepting the Devas as a pre requisite and also accepting the evidence based findings of the Rishis for a beginner to ultimately experience The Tat Ekam.


So it does seem the same finally.

If Jesus( pbuh) states

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me...

It almost sounds like..
The Devas are the way, the truth and the life, beginners comes to Tat Ekam through the Devas.

Then finally when Jesus( pbuh) says.
The Father and I are One.

Again it sounds like

" The Devas and Tat Ekam are One for its Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti"

Anyway its fine if you do not wish to answer..usually Rajiv Malhotra is into answering questions related to other religions.

Regards
 
OP
OP
R
I do not wish to discuss about the teachings of the other religions or how such teachings compare vis-a-vis the teachings of the Vedas.

Your pointing out one of the statements made by me about 'accepting Jesus Christ as the Saviour' as one of the many teachings of that faith does not mean that I know the "remaining teachings of that faith" or even the many interpretations possible for this aspect of that faith. To the extent that I have not studied in depth other religious faiths, I see no inconsistency in my position of not wanting to engage in discussions of other faiths.

My effort to post these posts is ONLY to explain the teachings of the Vedas.

Hope you understand and respect my wish.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
I do not wish to discuss about the teachings of the other religions or how such teachings compare vis-a-vis the teachings of the Vedas.

Your pointing out one of the statements made by me about 'accepting Jesus Christ as the Saviour' as one of the many teachings of that faith does not mean that I know the "remaining teachings of that faith" or even the many interpretations possible for this aspect of that faith. To the extent that I have not studied in depth other religious faiths, I see no inconsistency in my position of not wanting to engage in discussions of other faiths.

My effort to post these posts is ONLY to explain the teachings of the Vedas.

Hope you understand and respect my wish.
Thanks Sir,

Hence in your other threads I only asked questions related to your writings.
 
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