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There is still hope for our world

sravna

Well-known member
I think utopia which is perfect world is possible if self interests don't be an obsession but balanced with others interests. It is very sad that people fail to realize a much higher quality of life will ensue by this balancing . One will find that gross happiness will change to a very fine happiness.

But are people able to come out of that imposed prisonment of their mind and seek a higher quality of life? I think there are impediments. The truth is they are not even willing to accept that goodness in humans is possible. Cynicism has steeped to such an extent that everything done by others is perceived to have a self interest. It is this attitude which has to change even if people take some beatings and disappointments in their own long term interests and in the larger interest of the society.

It has to be initiated on a large scale for it to be effective. But I think it is possible even if not an utopia atleast freedom from the utter gutter that many people find themselves helplessly in.

But what exactly is the current situation?

The situation has reached such a pathetic state that even reason is being maligned by vested interests. They just want to thrust their own dogma and would want nothing to do with anything universal such as logic or anything timeless.

They know that way their selfish ideas and their self interests can prevail however irrational or immoral they are. They want to reign by brute power and the influence they wield.

It is more sad that even science has been reduced to data analysis to a large extent. It can be said that now technology functions without the moorings of proper science. What is succesful to satisfy the momentary interests are only sought.

Pretty sad.

A very tall task to set it right but I think if correctly approached with enough intelligence, power and patience to counter there is still hope
 
I think utopia which is perfect world is possible if self interests don't be an obsession but balanced with others interests. It is very sad that people fail to realize a much higher quality of life will ensue by this balancing . One will find that gross happiness will change to a very fine happiness.

But are people able to come out of that imposed prisonment of their mind and seek a higher quality of life? I think there are impediments. The truth is they are not even willing to accept that goodness in humans is possible. Cynicism has steeped to such an extent that everything done by others is perceived to have a self interest. It is this attitude which has to change even if people take some beatings and disappointments in their own long term interests and in the larger interest of the society.

It has to be initiated on a large scale for it to be effective. But I think it is possible even if not an utopia atleast freedom from the utter gutter that many people find themselves helplessly in.

But what exactly is the current situation?

The situation has reached such a pathetic state that even reason is being maligned by vested interests. They just want to thrust their own dogma and would want nothing to do with anything universal such as logic or anything timeless.

They know that way their selfish ideas and their self interests can prevail however irrational or immoral they are. They want to reign by brute power and the influence they wield.

It is more sad that even science has been reduced to data analysis to a large extent. It can be said that now technology functions without the moorings of proper science. What is succesful to satisfy the momentary interests are only sought.

Pretty sad.

A very tall task to set it right but I think if correctly approached with enough intelligence, power and patience to counter there is still hope
It is the greed for more and more whether it is wealth or power the human beings have forgotten themselves and have become slavesl. There is no reasoning and they cannot be at peace. When lose all their sense and after things endlessly then they will find they are reaching no where and it will be too late.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Yes Sir well said. A little bit of thought and using some foresight could save a lot of embarassment. The problem is that they fail to understand that nature does not offer knowledge on a platter.
 

prasad1

Active member
I think utopia which is perfect world is possible if self interests don't be an obsession but balanced with others interests.

Who is not interested in "self Interest".

Darwin responded positively to Alfred Russel Wallace's suggestion of using Spencer's new phrase "survival of the fittest" as an alternative to "natural selection", and adopted the phrase in The Variation of Animals and Plants Under Domestication published in 1868. In On the Origin of Species, he introduced the phrase in the fifth edition published in 1869, intending it to mean "better designed for an immediate, local environment"

The person who is not interested in self-interest never existed and will not exist in the future.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
You are correct. But that should not mean it extends to interfering with others interests in an unreasonable way. Even if they exist it is a lesser evil if the interference is restricted to individual levels but when the interference is organized and systematic and on a large scale they turn into real evil to be reckoned with.
 
Who is not interested in "self Interest".

Darwin responded positively to Alfred Russel Wallace's suggestion of using Spencer's new phrase "survival of the fittest" as an alternative to "natural selection", and adopted the phrase in The Variation of Animals and Plants Under Domestication published in 1868. In On the Origin of Species, he introduced the phrase in the fifth edition published in 1869, intending it to mean "better designed for an immediate, local environment"

The person who is not interested in self-interest never existed and will not exist in the future.
There is one aspect that be satisfied with what you have. Do not run after things for more and more as this will not give the inner satisfaction.
 

prasad1

Active member
There is one aspect that be satisfied with what you have. Do not run after things for more and more as this will not give the inner satisfaction.
There are two distinct levels. Be selfish and just satisfy your "inner Satisfaction".

suramandira taru mūla nivāsaḥ
śayyā bhūtalam-ajinaṃ vāsaḥ ।
sarva parigraha bhōgatyāgaḥ
kasya sukhaṃ na karōti virāgaḥ ॥ 19 ॥

But those do not contribute to society, country, or the world.
The world is not going to be saved by them.
I would rather have a Warren Buffet or Asim Premji who donate millions to charities.

They serve humanity.

I don't believe in a God,
That doesn't help the helpless.
Through the history of humankind,
Only humans have served the distressed.
My struggle is to end all struggles,
Says the being of character and conscience.
When you stretch out your hand in love,
That's when civilization manifests.
No help is insignificant,
No kindness is too puny.
With tiny steps we'll humanize the world,
When we see every human as family.
No prayer can heal the troubles of society.
Only cure for degradation is united humanity.”
― Abhijit Naskar, Heart Force One: Need No Gun to Defend Society
 
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prasad1

Active member
The wealthy and previledged have the luxury of thinking utopia, rest of the population of thinking of where the next meal is comming from.
Let us some perspective.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
I think utopia which is perfect world is possible if self interests don't be an obsession but balanced with others interests. It is very sad that people fail to realize a much higher quality of life will ensue by this balancing . One will find that gross happiness will change to a very fine happiness.

But are people able to come out of that imposed prisonment of their mind and seek a higher quality of life? I think there are impediments. The truth is they are not even willing to accept that goodness in humans is possible. Cynicism has steeped to such an extent that everything done by others is perceived to have a self interest. It is this attitude which has to change even if people take some beatings and disappointments in their own long term interests and in the larger interest of the society.

It has to be initiated on a large scale for it to be effective. But I think it is possible even if not an utopia atleast freedom from the utter gutter that many people find themselves helplessly in.

But what exactly is the current situation?

The situation has reached such a pathetic state that even reason is being maligned by vested interests. They just want to thrust their own dogma and would want nothing to do with anything universal such as logic or anything timeless.

They know that way their selfish ideas and their self interests can prevail however irrational or immoral they are. They want to reign by brute power and the influence they wield.

It is more sad that even science has been reduced to data analysis to a large extent. It can be said that now technology functions without the moorings of proper science. What is succesful to satisfy the momentary interests are only sought.

Pretty sad.

A very tall task to set it right but I think if correctly approached with enough intelligence, power and patience to counter there is still hope
I
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
By the time this question is answered, the person will be old and may be ready to pass away. But how can we make the younger generation to learn this. Only through as a living practitioner parent. But the frontal lobe(cortex) does not mature until around the age 27-28 for boys and 22 for girls,after the rest of the brain grows first. That is why, rational thinking, planning, ethics etc., come late according to studies. Thus, those who think about the old in general, are older folks who can not influence the younger generation. They will have to learn through their own mistakes as the history has shown and history repeats if we analyze it.

By the way it is not for debating or demeaning any thoughts, but most people who share their views look (from their writing) older folks. What is the take on this from the younger generation? Any survey done?
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
The state of affairs is that even well intentioned establishment can do little about it. Everything is connected at the level of the world.

Even those who are most powerful have been only furthering their selfish agendas and would go to any extent to accomplish that. It has been so bad that taking care of selfish interests are considered the right thing to do and tower over common good.

Shameless
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Technology is more and more being used to intrude and control. These people can do the most stupid things and get away without any punishment. It is high time accountability happen. I believe it will. God is great!
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
The state of affairs is that even well intentioned establishment can do little about it. Everything is connected at the level of the world.

Even those who are most powerful have been only furthering their selfish agendas and would go to any extent to accomplish that. It has been so bad that taking care of selfish interests are considered the right thing to do and tower over common good.

Shameless
Is it not a norm in the whole world? Or you imply only Brahmanas are the only culprit? Also do you know all the circumstances under which they are selfish? What is the consequence if they don't fit? Will moral principles take care of them? Shamelss is a judgmental word that does not help any one. But it is also a way to express our helplessness because those who are selfish will not be reading these posts. No organization can change anything. It has to come within and on it's own, excepting hatred where every one will join to be on the safe side. I did not want to comment but I had violated my own principles. Sorry.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Mani,

A very pragmatic view. I agree. I do not know how It will happen. But I am sure it will happen. It is just an intuition. I know you will not be impressed.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Is it not a norm in the whole world? Or you imply only Brahmanas are the only culprit? Also do you know all the circumstances under which they are selfish? What is the consequence if they don't fit? Will moral principles take care of them? Shamelss is a judgmental word that does not help any one. But it is also a way to express our helplessness because those who are selfish will not be reading these posts. No organization can change anything. It has to come within and on it's own, excepting hatred where every one will join to be on the safe side. I did not want to comment but I had violated my own principles. Sorry.
The culprit are not the Brahmanas. Far from it. The culprits are those who control the events in the world and call the shots. To be specific powerful countries like the USA. Though these are in a position to really exert positive influence if they will they do the opposite and stick to their selfish interests whatever may be the cost on others.

I don't think they deserve titles such as superpower.
 
The culprit are not the Brahmanas. Far from it. The culprits are those who control the events in the world and call the shots. To be specific powerful countries like the USA. Though these are in a position to really exert positive influence if they will they do the opposite and stick to their selfish interests whatever may be the cost on others.

I don't think they deserve titles such as superpower.
If one concentrate on ones goals but not attached to the results one can reach to the higher goals. Is it possible or practical then it is yes. Here is a story when young suga wanted to leave as he do not desire to enter the family life, then veda vyas advised him against it and there was a conversation between them. Ultimately suga agrees to his fathers request on condition he must show one such person. Veda vyas advises him to go and meet king janaka. Suga was not convinced how can s king rule without attachment. But after meeting king janaka suga is convinced and enters house hold life.
 

prasad1

Active member
If one concentrate on ones goals but not attached to the results one can reach to the higher goals. Is it possible or practical then it is yes. Here is a story when young suga wanted to leave as he do not desire to enter the family life, then veda vyas advised him against it and there was a conversation between them. Ultimately suga agrees to his fathers request on condition he must show one such person. Veda vyas advises him to go and meet king janaka. Suga was not convinced how can s king rule without attachment. But after meeting king janaka suga is convinced and enters house hold life.
Do we want stories? Or action?

It is easy to spin or regurgitate a story and ignore the problem. It is an altogether different matter to propose a solution to the problem on hand.

The story that was posted did not even have a meaning, and it was irrelevant. Sorry.
 

renuka

Well-known member
The culprit are not the Brahmanas. Far from it. The culprits are those who control the events in the world and call the shots. To be specific powerful countries like the USA. Though these are in a position to really exert positive influence if they will they do the opposite and stick to their selfish interests whatever may be the cost on others.

I don't think they deserve titles such as superpower.
Partly USA is a land that was violated by the invadors who came there.
It was built of genocide and persecution of the Native Americans and torture and slavery of the Africans.

So when it didnt have a dharmic begining surely the seeds of violence and adharma would shape the karmic imprints of the nation to always be in unrest hence you see USA does tend to destabilize situations around the world...its the Karma of the land to be in mental unrest.

Somehow these countries will also attract those who have a compatible karma to experience being in an unstable land in terms of karma and dharma...in the long term you would see people getting more aggressive..even among those who claim to be spiritual they too adopt an non balance type of spirituality where its just for the heck of maintaining some part of their identity.

I know this post of mine might not go down well but I am ok with any reaction.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Partly USA is a land that was violated by the invadors who came there.
It was built of genocide and persecution of the Native Americans and torture and slavery of the Africans.

So when it didnt have a dharmic begining surely the seeds of violence and adharma would shape the karmic imprints of the nation to always be in unrest hence you see USA does tend to destabilize situations around the world...its the Karma of the land to be in mental unrest.

Somehow these countries will also attract those who have a compatible karma to experience being in an unstable land in terms of karma and dharma...in the long term you would see people getting more aggressive..even among those who claim to be spiritual they too adopt an non balance type of spirituality where its just for the heck of maintaining some part of their identity.

I know this post of mine might not go down well but I am ok with any reaction.
But if you search the history, there was no country found by peace. Always territorial expansion and assimilation or destruction had been the case. Even Indian kings went in ships to the East to conquer. So, the question is who is to blame, what steps can be taken that is feasible, meaningful and acceptable to majority. There will always be minority who will feel that they did not get justice. Thus, every thing is dynamic and one need to be part of the progress. USA land was gobbled up by Europeans because, the native Indians were fragmented and did not unite. Did our Indian Kings and Jamindar they invite British rule in the same way? Our own people now go illegally to live in other country which is also a devious invation. This will happen and one day China will rule India as the current political parties are selfish and don't care about India.
I am not against all the arguments, but what will an ideal solution should also be specified. People only list problems and expect some one else to solve it. At least they should try to start giving solutions which may or may not pan out. Right now, selfishness is the norm and almost impossbile to change it.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Partly USA is a land that was violated by the invadors who came there.
It was built of genocide and persecution of the Native Americans and torture and slavery of the Africans.

So when it didnt have a dharmic begining surely the seeds of violence and adharma would shape the karmic imprints of the nation to always be in unrest hence you see USA does tend to destabilize situations around the world...its the Karma of the land to be in mental unrest.

Somehow these countries will also attract those who have a compatible karma to experience being in an unstable land in terms of karma and dharma...in the long term you would see people getting more aggressive..even among those who claim to be spiritual they too adopt an non balance type of spirituality where its just for the heck of maintaining some part of their identity.

I know this post of mine might not go down well but I am ok with any reaction.
Very well said.
 

prasad1

Active member
I hate to disagree with the characterization of a country as adharmic, In that respect, every country is adharmic according to someone else.

The British, European countries, ancient Kingdoms, like Alexzander, the Greeks, Egyptians, Turks, Mongols, Cholas, Mauryan, and others were adharmic.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I hate to disagree with the characterization of a country as adharmic, In that respect, every country is adharmic according to someone else.

The British, European countries, ancient Kingdoms, like Alexzander, the Greeks, Egyptians, Turks, Mongols, Cholas, Mauryan, and others were adharmic.
I agree but USA has a track record of creating terrorist then it goes out of hand.
Everyone knows Taliban is an Asura created out of the USA yagna homa.

 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
I hate to disagree with the characterization of a country as adharmic, In that respect, every country is adharmic according to someone else.

The British, European countries, ancient Kingdoms, like Alexzander, the Greeks, Egyptians, Turks, Mongols, Cholas, Mauryan, and others were adharmic.
Sorry your agreement or disagreement does not change anything. It gives you momentary happiness.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
I agree but USA has a track record of creating terrorist then it goes out of hand.
Everyone knows Taliban is an Asura created out of the USA yagna homa.

I think they might have started with a good intention without knowing all the facts. Their nieveity has c created more problemes. It is the not the people who helped most countries, it is their leaders, just like what we have in India. Chanaykiya( I was not there to hear from him first hand) was detached but extremely knowledgeable about Governess- politics and was able to guide Chandra Gupta to unite the country. Chanikya did not think Chandra Gupta was not a Brahman, but a honest and powerful ruler. That is the only good Indian History we have. So, blaming one country ( I have no vested interest in USA)- they helped India in 19620-64 famine and thus created PL-480 funds to establish IIT Kanpur. So, all of us has some Asura hidden in our psychic but in some cases the environment controls us. America underestimate the Arab stock not to have democracy which needs more sacrifice and thought their democracy is the only solution for a peaceful world. But if USA did not get involved in the 2nd world war, we will be slaves of German Hiltler too.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
I hate to disagree with the characterization of a country as adharmic, In that respect, every country is adharmic according to someone else.

The British, European countries, ancient Kingdoms, like Alexzander, the Greeks, Egyptians, Turks, Mongols, Cholas, Mauryan, and others were adharmic.
In the case of USA it is one step further. They are corrupting others also with their ideologies. So double adharmic.
 
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