• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

The TM Krishna column: Not just politicians, hate speech worn as a badge of honour by many Indians It is seriously undermining our ability as citizens

prasad1

Well-known member
As the old adage goes “ all is fair in love and war ”. While this might be true of political parties and politicians, especially during elections, in the run up to the 2019 Lok Sabha elections we have witnessed nastiness that encompasses a large spectrum of society. Hate speech is now not the sole property of politicians, it is worn as a badge of honour by many.

Just scroll down any Twitter account or Facebook post and you will be obliged to consume venom. It has reached such a shrill decibel that the difference between hate and criticism has been lost. The lines are getting blurred every day, which means our right to make observations, evaluations and question is shrinking. The compounding increase in hate mongering is seriously undermining our ability as citizens to participate in our democracy. Therefore, this is not just about maintaining decorum and decency, it is as much about defending the freedom to truly express and question with earnestness.

Unpardonable comments
The Dravidar Kazhagam is a political outfit no doubt, but it does not contest elections and has very little or no significant role in helping the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (an offshoot of the Dravidar Kazhagam) garner votes.

Its leader K Veeramani, on March 27, made a series of observations on the Hindu deity Krishna that can only be described as gross and unbecoming. He seems to have used Krishna as a target for a retaliatory statement. Apparently, he was responding to an article published in the Tamil magazine Thuglak where it was stated that the culture of Tamil Nadu dipped after the emergence of the BIG RIVER, who founded the Dravidar Kazhagam in the 1920s.

Veeramani’s comments calling Krishna an eve teaser were tasteless. What was also unpardonable was his comparison of Krishna with those accused of abusing numerous women in Pollachi, Tamil Nadu. We should collectively make sure that such incidents do not ever happen, that people do not take pot shots at the faithful at the expense of survivors of sexual harassment or abuse.

A few days later, I was sent a speech by a lady whom I do not recognise. I can say with some surety that she is a middle-class upper caste (most likely Brahmin) lady. Her thoughts and articulation were scary. She claimed proudly that India is a Hindu country, secularism is bullshit, the Hindu and Indian are inseparable, inferring that people who are Indian are Hindu. Somewhere in between was thrown in the phrase “dash fact”.

You can of course fill in the dash! She went on to say that we are a Hindutva country and called for a coming together of the Hindu vote. Then the vitriol got worse. She referred to the people of the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam/Dravidar Kazhagam as pigs and their father figure EV Ramasamy Naicker (Periyar) as EV Ramasamy Rascal, the one who married a woman who grew up in his house. This is not a verbatim translation but broadly covers her violent diatribe.

Whether this was a speech after Veeramani’s comments I am not sure, but the fact that this was the level of discourse among citizens and was being enthusiastically applauded and shared on social media was worrisome. While this lady spoke about Hindus being non-violent and accommodative of other religions, she delivered what is an abusive speech. She will claim that now the Hindus have awakened and may even use the expression “enough is enough”.

Of course she completely forgets all the violence unleashed on Dalits, Muslims, Christians, rationalists and the continuing caste oppression practised in so many subtle and not so subtle ways by upper castes.

For all the talk of being docile and peaceful, what we witnessed in the lady’s outburst was the unraveling of the upper caste inner self. This is how many feel and now they are proud to wear it on their sleeve. And this does not come from what they claim they have been through, which is “persecution” by non-Brahmins. This is actually casteism finding a loud voice thanks to the present political climate.

We upper castes love to portray ourselves as victims by quoting examples of wrong deeds directed towards us. Though comparing violence is ugly I am forced to here, only to drive home the point that this voice we are hearing today is actually a result of the loss of political power for so many decades. This is the bitter truth that we find unacceptable. We believe that we have and are being governed by uncouth, unqualified non-Brahmin rowdies. I have heard derogatory comments being passed on state government ministers purely based on how they look with absolutely no knowledge of the individual’s work. We do believe that we are superior and things were a lot better when we had a say in matters of politics.

The upper castes will any day prefer J Jayalalithaa to M Karunanidhi, and the reason is obvious. Her misdeeds are seen as being “disproportionate”, his as being disgraceful. He is after all not “one of us”. The false notion that Brahmins in Tamil Nadu are an oppressed class needs to be busted. This is just not the truth. No socio-cultural-religious or economic parameter backs this sentiment. This is a rumour that is being further established by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and BJP.

Nobody can deny the fact that the powerful Other Backward Classes lobbies within the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam and All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam are no saints and they need to be condemned for their blatant casteism and caste violence. They have used the very Brahminism that they reject to oppress those below them in the hierarchy. But that cannot and should not be used as an angle by Brahmins and other upper castes to paint themselves as cleaner or casteless, because this is simply not true.

But how does one bring about a conversation that is truthful, honest and serious? The atmosphere is so filled with spite, malice, frustration and toxicity that everybody sees red within seconds. I am sure this piece will be treated exactly the same way both by Dravidian supporters and upper caste Tamilians, each taking offence to my critique of their ilk. But will we ever stop taking offence to criticism or feeling puffed from an attack on the other?

 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
To add -

1. People are building dangerous levels of hatred. Everybody hates something or someone or some ideology to some extent, but the fact they are abusing so freely today is totally unhealthy. Watch out right wingers !!

2. Social media platforms have become "abusers den". Hope "this forum" continues as a beacon for a vibrant and "free of abuse" exchange of ideas !! Some recent muck fellows have me worried !!

3. Isn't it unsurprising that this level of hatred is manifesting only in this 5 yrs ?? Right wingers, take it in the right spirit, something really to think about !!

4. Don't be a "silly adult with the mental age of a kid" to expect everyone to sing and dance to the tunes of your beloved party, leader and ideology. I had to pen a thread separately to drive home this point to Andh Bakths !! LOL !!

5. Finally, no religious and devout Hindu can support such hatred and violence towards any human being in the name of gau rakshaks, love Jehad, conversion, etc. Remeber, our core of the religion is Karma, this is pure bad karma !!

You can support a right of centre approach without hatred, abuse, violence... Similarly in the USA, where a rational humane tighter immigration approach by republicans would have won them a landslide.

But ah la, not to be.. Kali Yugam !!
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Unpardonable comments

The Dravidar Kazhagam is a political outfit no doubt, but it does not contest elections and has very little or no significant role in helping the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (an offshoot of the Dravidar Kazhagam) garner votes.(#1)

This is typical of Krishna - Divine or Human! Unpardanable must at least be published if not be vanquished - To retaliate is not hate but call of Dharma! Divine Krishna was a mute witness for an unpardonable act of Duriyodhan till the lady indistress summoned him Instead of punishing the criminal spins sarees to protect her modesty!

Finally, no religious and devout Hindu can support such hatred and violence towards any human being in the name of gau rakshaks, love Jehad, conversion, etc. Remeber, our core of the religion is Karma, this is pure bad karma !! (#2)

It is all Karma ( ? Bad ) for Krishna baktha - and not for Rama bhakthas - They have decided to rebuilt Ram Temple in Ayodhya - Rama bakthi is Samrajya - Krishna Bkathai is not - for lack of self respect & தில் to respond to the assault by "சுயமரியாதை" - cannot be covered up by philosophy of Karma good or bad or by both!
 

a-TB

Well-known member
It is not possible to detect true hatred in others but one can know hatred in one's own heart.

How do we know there is hatred in my heart ? When our mind is constantly looking at others and dividing them into groups - left or right, which caste, what race, rich or poor, formally educated or minimal education, where are they living, NRI or Indian citizen, etc

I have rarely come across extreme of any kind among the people I have met worldwide. No one advertises that they are right or left. Most human beings have the same needs as any others. When we have hatred budding in our heart we look for differences. And we will find them. If you look for unity that can be found too.

Only legitimate question is to ask is this "Do I have prejudice and hatred towards any group" and if so work on seeing the opposing people as human beings. Let us not fall pray to hatred in the name of talking holier than thou.

I have no ill will towards anyone though I will vigorously disagree with some of their views
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
People expose "thier bias or hatred or bigotry or call it what you want", when they fail to condemn atrocities in the world. And instead support them either openly or tacitly !!

Trump supporters can be largely classified as those who support the trump hate immigrant, hate Muslim, ideology. Same goes with the supporters who refuse to condemn communal hatred, lynchings, gau rakshaks rioting, etc,..instead support them and also abuse the liberals with so much anger etc..LOL.

And calling out such doesn't mean, that those calling out have hatred in them !!

And even if the liberals, left, etc harbour hatred, it is not wrong in most cases !! I am sure all will agree, that hating hitler is morally right !!
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Condemn the atrocities with good reason. But do not condemn a person. Labeling large number of people into camp such as as right or left
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Unable to edit the above. My point is that labeling people is not conducive to any debate. When we label someone we rob people of their humanity and then anything could be said about them because they are not 'one of us'. Thar leads to conflicts. Calling out the acts of atrocity is not the same as labeling a person
 

Raman74

New member
There is an adage in Tamil. It is தீதும் நன்றும் பிறர் தர வாரா’We reap whatever we sow.

Every individual while making a speech need to control his senses. Should be more responsible.

Some of the leaders, finding no option except to deliver a venom filled speech, to gain more favorable points which may prove beneficial to their profession later, try to influence the minds of mass that are gathered by using abusive and brazen language.

What they forget is that there is freedom of speech and right to equality. Freedom from discrimination.

Now, it is turn of the otherside to give a fitting reply. They take the very same tool to attack.

We reap only whatever we sow.

Instead of lamenting about use of abusive language, hate speech etc. if one try to maintain decency and respect the views of opposition, others will certainly reciprocate.

Have not we see few in this Forum displaying their 'HOLIER-THAN-THOU' attitude...???

It is a common phenomena here

Please read this.
Hindu religious leader arrested for hate speech

Read more at: https://www.news18.com/news/india/hindu-religious-leader-arrested-for-hate-speech-531523.html
---------------------------

Mamata Banerjee Threatens To Break PM Modi’s Teeth By Sending Him Sweets Filled With Rocks


Read more at: https://swarajyamag.com/insta/mamata-banerjee-threatens-to-break-pm-modis-teeth-by-sending-him-sweets-filled-with-rocks
------------------------------

There are leaders who love to deliver hate speech, to provoke the mass audiences

There are medias to project, tweak, twist such speeches to add fuel to fire

There are readers who love to read and chat for and against such speeches

It is all in the game… and there are enough laws to protect and guard freedom of speech.

Instead pointing our fingers on others, it is better to practice self-discipline.
 
Last edited:

KRN

Active member
Hate is a very unproductive use of one's time and energy and people do know it intuitively as Children - but while growing up, we learn it, among other bad habits from others. As it is, a lot of responsible adulthood gets spent on unlearning all those bad habits that we had consciously or uncobsciously learnt, due to our overtly trustful nature. Life is an interesting game where we learn a lot of strengthening stuff from others. Just imagine, if the DK had learned to coopt the TBs, how much more enriched would they have been. We TBs do have a lot to contribute in many ways. Fools who don't realise it, are the ultimate losers. People who spread hatred end up with a host of diseases - physical and mental - which, in the case of politicians don't get reported in the media. But those who observe things closely, realise the truth and keep away from all forms of hatred - for their own peace of mind and well being!
 

manianks

Member
As the old adage goes “ all is fair in love and war ”. While this might be true of political parties and politicians, especially during elections, in the run up to the 2019 Lok Sabha elections we have witnessed nastiness that encompasses a large spectrum of society. Hate speech is now not the sole property of politicians, it is worn as a badge of honour by many.

Just scroll down any Twitter account or Facebook post and you will be obliged to consume venom. It has reached such a shrill decibel that the difference between hate and criticism has been lost. The lines are getting blurred every day, which means our right to make observations, evaluations and question is shrinking. The compounding increase in hate mongering is seriously undermining our ability as citizens to participate in our democracy. Therefore, this is not just about maintaining decorum and decency, it is as much about defending the freedom to truly express and question with earnestness.

Unpardonable comments
The Dravidar Kazhagam is a political outfit no doubt, but it does not contest elections and has very little or no significant role in helping the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (an offshoot of the Dravidar Kazhagam) garner votes.

Its leader K Veeramani, on March 27, made a series of observations on the Hindu deity Krishna that can only be described as gross and unbecoming. He seems to have used Krishna as a target for a retaliatory statement. Apparently, he was responding to an article published in the Tamil magazine Thuglak where it was stated that the culture of Tamil Nadu dipped after the emergence of the BIG RIVER, who founded the Dravidar Kazhagam in the 1920s.

Veeramani’s comments calling Krishna an eve teaser were tasteless. What was also unpardonable was his comparison of Krishna with those accused of abusing numerous women in Pollachi, Tamil Nadu. We should collectively make sure that such incidents do not ever happen, that people do not take pot shots at the faithful at the expense of survivors of sexual harassment or abuse.

A few days later, I was sent a speech by a lady whom I do not recognise. I can say with some surety that she is a middle-class upper caste (most likely Brahmin) lady. Her thoughts and articulation were scary. She claimed proudly that India is a Hindu country, secularism is bullshit, the Hindu and Indian are inseparable, inferring that people who are Indian are Hindu. Somewhere in between was thrown in the phrase “dash fact”.

You can of course fill in the dash! She went on to say that we are a Hindutva country and called for a coming together of the Hindu vote. Then the vitriol got worse. She referred to the people of the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam/Dravidar Kazhagam as pigs and their father figure EV Ramasamy Naicker (Periyar) as EV Ramasamy Rascal, the one who married a woman who grew up in his house. This is not a verbatim translation but broadly covers her violent diatribe.

Whether this was a speech after Veeramani’s comments I am not sure, but the fact that this was the level of discourse among citizens and was being enthusiastically applauded and shared on social media was worrisome. While this lady spoke about Hindus being non-violent and accommodative of other religions, she delivered what is an abusive speech. She will claim that now the Hindus have awakened and may even use the expression “enough is enough”.

Of course she completely forgets all the violence unleashed on Dalits, Muslims, Christians, rationalists and the continuing caste oppression practised in so many subtle and not so subtle ways by upper castes.

For all the talk of being docile and peaceful, what we witnessed in the lady’s outburst was the unraveling of the upper caste inner self. This is how many feel and now they are proud to wear it on their sleeve. And this does not come from what they claim they have been through, which is “persecution” by non-Brahmins. This is actually casteism finding a loud voice thanks to the present political climate.

We upper castes love to portray ourselves as victims by quoting examples of wrong deeds directed towards us. Though comparing violence is ugly I am forced to here, only to drive home the point that this voice we are hearing today is actually a result of the loss of political power for so many decades. This is the bitter truth that we find unacceptable. We believe that we have and are being governed by uncouth, unqualified non-Brahmin rowdies. I have heard derogatory comments being passed on state government ministers purely based on how they look with absolutely no knowledge of the individual’s work. We do believe that we are superior and things were a lot better when we had a say in matters of politics.

The upper castes will any day prefer J Jayalalithaa to M Karunanidhi, and the reason is obvious. Her misdeeds are seen as being “disproportionate”, his as being disgraceful. He is after all not “one of us”. The false notion that Brahmins in Tamil Nadu are an oppressed class needs to be busted. This is just not the truth. No socio-cultural-religious or economic parameter backs this sentiment. This is a rumour that is being further established by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and BJP.

Nobody can deny the fact that the powerful Other Backward Classes lobbies within the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam and All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam are no saints and they need to be condemned for their blatant casteism and caste violence. They have used the very Brahminism that they reject to oppress those below them in the hierarchy. But that cannot and should not be used as an angle by Brahmins and other upper castes to paint themselves as cleaner or casteless, because this is simply not true.

But how does one bring about a conversation that is truthful, honest and serious? The atmosphere is so filled with spite, malice, frustration and toxicity that everybody sees red within seconds. I am sure this piece will be treated exactly the same way both by Dravidian supporters and upper caste Tamilians, each taking offence to my critique of their ilk. But will we ever stop taking offence to criticism or feeling puffed from an attack on the other?

If what this woman mentioned about DK and DMK are despicable, publishing that with selective editing is even more despicable and unpardonable. If this writer considers himself famous and important, it is because of the unstinted support of the cultural society to which the woman and TM Krishna belong. He may be an exponent of Carnatic music, but that doesn't endow him with the right to commercialize the tunes, style and tenor of the musical trinity of Carnatic music for his own self-aggrandizement in the other faiths whom he supports through Carnatic style and ethos which is exclusive to the Santana dharma which is universal, but not the new Faiths enunciated about 3 millennium back or later
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Carnatic style and ethos which is exclusive to the Santana dharma which is universal, but not the new Faiths enunciated about 3 millennium back or later
!!!!!!!!!!
If infinity includes all known and unknown numbers But excludes 10, 100. Does that make sense?
 

ekaputra

Member
The producer/ director of the movie "Periyar" said that Periyar was "Anti Brahminism" but not "Anti Brahmin". In fact, it is the other way around.

It is true (and shameful and wrong) that we practiced untouchability and tried to assert our belief in our superiority (by birth) in other ways (like people of lower castes should stand bare footed in our presence and so on) but then many of the Non-Brahmin communities are guilty of the same social crimes. It is a fact that Dalits were in greatest dread of their landlords who subjugated them and regularly abused them (including the women).

The DK (and the DMK and possibly other offshoots of the DK) have been propagating that Brahmins have suppressed people of all other castes for centuries and are fully and solely responsible for the backwardness of people of other castes and other social evils.

Brahmins were placed at the top of the social hierarchy but they lived only on the charity of the richer business and landlord communities - going from door to door "bhavati bhiksham dehi". The squalid "agraharams" they lived in were mostly gifted by kings and other local rulers. To say that these rich landlord and wealthy business communities were terrorized by the Brahmins (who lived on their charity) is saying that the tail was all along wagging the dog! In fact, these Brahmins were contemptuously referred to as "Paappaara/ Pandaara Payalga".

Another propaganda is that the Brahmins ensured that only their children received any education and that people of all other castes were kept near illiterate. It is true that Brahmins claimed sole rights to learn the Vedas and other scriptures but does this mean that people of other communities had no right to any form of learning. The business communities employed accountants (Kanakku Pillais) who were people of their own castes and in most cases they were trusted relatives. While Brahmins were reciting the same mantras (and in many cases without even knowing the meaning) these accountants had good knowledge of arithmetic. In fact, they had a head start over us in this important subject which is very relevant in modern education. And, stone inscriptions in temples and historical sites prove that sculptors and other artisans were also literate.

Why then have Brahmins been singled out? The British introduced modern education some 150 years back and many Brahmin children enrolled in these schools. It is significant that many of the schools were promoted by the non Brahmin business/ landlord communities - a point to be kept in mind since they (DK and friends) claim that Brahmins whole hogged the education system. The British needed Indians to take care of the administration at various levels and many Brahmins filled important posts. These neo rich Brahmins moved out of the Agraharams and started living in decent houses and went about in cars and adopted other fashionable ways like smoking and drinking and socializing in clubs - on par with their former patrons! Their fathers also stopped going from door to door crying "Bhavati Bhiksham Dehi". You do not like your servant's children doing as well or better than your own children. The rich non Brahmins who were used to seeing Brahmins begging at their doors had to now wait at their (office) doors for licences and other Government authorization. These neo rich Brahmins also moved freely with people of all communities unlike their tradition bound counterparts in the agraharams. But the anger of the DK (and its precursor the "Justice Party") was and is against the progressive Brahmins - not against the economically and even educationally backward Brahmins who believed that we alone have been created from the head of Brahma and therefore superior by birth.

Atrocities are committed on Dalits to this day by people belonging to non Brahmin communities but the DK do not talk about all that. By constantly indulging in anti Brahmin propaganda they also hope that in course of time people will forget that most non Brahmin castes are equally guilty. Hitler's propaganda man Goebbels used to say "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."

The DK and their supporters are anti Brahmin - not against caste based division of society!

I write all this as a person who has the greatest regard for Dr. Ambedkar.

Though not relevant to the rest of the post above I would appeal to the boys (and their parents) to settle for simple marriage in temples followed by marriage registration. This will greatly strengthen our community. A very good soft spoken educated working girl known to us is to get married - her mother is a school teacher and the father is no more - the cost of the wedding is 15 lacs - relatives and friends have rallied to help - else it would not be possible!

Thanks!
 
Last edited:

prasad1

Well-known member
Mr. Ekaputra,
That name that you have used and who you are complimenting is banned on this site. We do not talk about him and his misdeeds.
You are new and so it is excusable.
 

Follow Tamil Brahmins on Social Media

Top