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The modern Hindu

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prasad1

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A good Hindu, by the limited definition of the fringe, must shun ‘alien’ influences – whether of language, dress or events identified with the Western world, including a certain date in the Gregorian calendar identified with going on dates. This definition is then disingenuously sought to be extended into private spheres and personal freedoms. Such a worldview seeks to put the Hindu creative brilliance in jail as it were, a central prison that attempts to shape Hindu uniformity to assume the uniformity of the other, to prove its ultimate superiority by beating ‘rival’ faiths at their own game.


The political class that is the fountainhead of this vocal fringe – just as it is at the helm of the cultural mainstream – must stop to reflect why such a constricted world view will not find expansion of space, and sooner rather than later prove self-defeating. And if the political class pauses long enough, it will find a certain subtlety – the Hindu’s famed capacity to draw in and hold on to soft distinctions that carry multitudes in harmony – and civilisational creativity are far more
definitive markers of India, that is Bharat, than any attempts to redefine it.


The Hindu concerns himself with questions far subtler than the manner of his dressing, his language, his eating preferences – he knows relishing kebabs doesn’t make him some sort of a Hindu kafir.

He doesn’t or wouldn’t shun say the English language to think only in Hindi, but would be deeply interested in learning Sanskrit to read the Upanishads and absorb from the source. Just as he would be wanting to learn French or Latin to collect and assimilate other wisdoms from their sources. Hinduism absorbs from multiple sources; in its search for verities, it stops at nothing. As S Radhakrishnan said, what is built forever is forever building.


Over centuries, Semitic themes and traditions have become our touchstones, our stock-in-trade. God-giving-religion-to-humankind has become a cultural universal. Indian traditions absorb all these and more, and for a direct experience of such assimilative processes, all one has to do is experience the Kumbh. This great tradition reveals best, Hinduism’s containing contradictions and carrying multitudes. Hinduism is grand unification of knowledge, which is fundamentally beyond logic or any configuration of god; it can’t be defined if it can’t be given a form; and, therefore, Vivekananda said that he is a voice without a form, which made him describe the Upanishads as Vedanta, which is the end of knowledge itself, leaving one only with stirrings of an awareness of what needs to be done with that knowledge: to serve humanity as one’s larger self.
 
My thoughts on Hinduism:

(this is not a reply to prasadji's post here on Hinduism. This is independent of that. If a few lines appear to be a reply it is unintentional.)

Hinduism is a faith system. It has components which are differing perception of the central idea of the faith system itself. Thus you may come across atheism, polytheism, monotheism all existing side by side in this system. But a large part of this system draws its inspiration and roots from the Vedas. Upanishads(also called vedanta) are part of these vedas. So Hinduism is also known as a vedic religion.

Hinduism is largely restricted to the geographic area called India or Bharath. Of course it has been exported to nearby countries like Srilanka, Malaysia, Indonesia etc., in the past and to USA in this century.

It is a fact of history that Religion has been used as an instrument of control to keep under control large populations. India which was a prosperous land had experienced repeated turmoil because of hoardes that came from the west and north of Himalayas. These hoardes belonged to a different faith system and had ruthlessly tried to impose that faith on the native population here. The same thing has happened in the entire Africa continent, conquered American continent and Australia too.

So deep in their psyche indians will for ever remember the atrocities that were committed in the name of faith. They can never forget that an attempt was made to convert them wholesale. The Jizia tax which was unique to Indian/hindus can not be forgotten by them.

If India is still a Hindu majority country, it is because of the loyalty that the population has for their faith and the uniqueness of that faith system.

This particular logic if understood, the fear that Hindus still have about the threat to their religion and culture can be appreciated by a neutral observer.

It is okay to participate in inter-faith dialogues and be open to the good ideas from other faith systems. But all this will have meaning only when Hinduism exists as a religion. People respect those who respect themselves. You always preserve your valuables by carefully putting them away and appointing a security guard with a gun to guard it 24 hours a day. I appreciate these guards who swear to protect our religion because we need their services also.

When billions of dollars are poured into the country to front organizations that call themselves Human Right Forums and NGOs we need people to go deep into their foot prints and bring out the secrets of the games that they play to the detriment of the country. So I lend my support to such volunteers who fight a thankless battle.

People may call me a fanatic. They may call me a stooge of hindutva forces. I do not care. I am not against any religion. If anything I am pro my country. I do not want my countrymen after a hundred years, to complain like the African youth today " you gave us the Bible. while we were reading it with interest you usurped our land and stole our wealth."

Because the whole world has been using religion as an instrument of politics to control and rule people, politicians get interested in religion. They think they can use it to counter the forces that are trying to control India by proxy. I do not find fault with them. As long as politics remains bitter wrangling without crossing the limit, I can live with it if it ensure my faith system's survival. Survive it should because it is the best as far as I know and it is beautiful. If it were to cross the limit it will be apocalypse and no one will remain safe. I am sure human race is not yet so mad as to get its collective death wish in that kind of proportions.

I want my faith to remain in tact.
I want my temples to remain temples and in tact.
I want my religious literature to remain for ever because they are simply beautiful.
I want my people's freedom to severely criticize each other's faith component to remain as it is unaffected for ever.
I want the heterogeneity of my country's faith system to remain firm because that shows the vibrant nature of my civilization.
I do not want a single faith system to be prevalent through out my country with no scope for any conflicting interpretation of the religious texts.
I do not want my temples to become idol-less.

But mark it. I am not a fanatic. I will give protection to any one if he were to be hounded for his belief even if his belief system is different from mine. I believe in coexistence without domination. Yes I am a modern Hindu. LOL.
 
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....

It is okay to participate in inter-faith dialogues and be open to the good ideas from other faith systems. But all this will have meaning only when Hinduism exits as a religion.

People may call me a fanatic.

Nice post. Two points:

1) Did you really mean "exits"? Please edit this word if you meant "exists"
2) Only sickular Lunatics will delude themselves to call you a fanatic.
 
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Nice post. Two points:

1) Did you really mean "exits"? Please edit this word if you meant "exists"
2) Only sickular Lunatics will delude themselves to call you a fanatic.
It is a nice post, why spoil it with derogatory remark against others. Vaagmiji talked about inclusion and here we go again spoil the whole thread by dividing us Hindus. Totally uncalled for. Who is sickular Lunatic it must be a person or is it code word.
 
vaagmiji has a way with words.

nice words hiding a fanatic mindset.

most in india are hindus by birth and not thru convictions as such.

more than 50 percent are too poor to have any religeous convictions.

religion is useful only to politicians or a small religeous group believing in vedas nd vedanta belonging to higher castes. many women swear by hindu religion and folow some religeous practices as they have been indoctrinated to follow these practices.

many would be prepared to change their religion if there are suffuicient monetory incentives which christian institutions and muslim sheikhs of middle east are banking on when they pour money into india for change of religion

hindus are likely to grow only in numbers while their faith and practices weaken over the years.

it is good mathematics, because of very large numbers, if we multiply even at a low rate we will overtake all other religions due to numbers, conversions not withstanding.

hinduism is a good tolerant religion . there are no strict rules to observe and one can be dissenter and survive, we have a good absorbing capacity to finish off other religions over a period of time. we have absorbed jainism,buddhism in hindu faith . even sikhs are unable to maintain their identity . similar things will happen to muslims and christians in india not withstanding the money getting poured in for conversions
 
vaagmiji has a way with words.
nice words hiding a fanatic mindset.
most in india are hindus by birth and not thru convictions as such.
more than 50 percent are too poor to have any religeous convictions.
religion is useful only to politicians or a small religeous group believing in vedas nd vedanta belonging to higher castes. many women swear by hindu religion and folow some religeous practices as they have been indoctrinated to follow these practices.
many would be prepared to change their religion if there are suffuicient monetory incentives which christian institutions and muslim sheikhs of middle east are banking on when they pour money into india for change of religion
hindus are likely to grow only in numbers while their faith and practices weaken over the years.
it is good mathematics, because of very large numbers, if we multiply even at a low rate we will overtake all other religions due to numbers, conversions not withstanding.
hinduism is a good tolerant religion . there are no strict rules to observe and one can be dissenter and survive, we have a good absorbing capacity to finish off other religions over a period of time. we have absorbed jainism,buddhism in hindu faith . even sikhs are unable to maintain their identity . similar things will happen to muslims and christians in india not withstanding the money getting poured in for conversions

1. In my village I had a childhood friend and classmate. His name was Khurshid Ahmed. His father was a devout Muslim. He did not have the benefit of formal education. But he used to do his prayers every day regularly. My friend also used to join his dad and do the prayers. The prayer was in a strange language to me as well as Khurshid who was at that time studying in 4th class in the primary school. My friend Khurshid continues to be a devout Muslim and owns a shop in a town near my village.

2. I had another friend in the same village. about him I have already written in this forum. His name is Thangapandi. He is a farmer. His father Esakki was a devout Hindu. Every year the kodai festival in the local Madan temple was a big event. With villu paattu, karagaattam, Chapparam and Saamiyaattam it was a grand event always. Mr. esakki used to offer to his God Madan a bottle of home brewed arrack and best quality Dindigul cigars. It was just a belief for him that he should give his best to his God.

3. Nearby my village there is another village and there is an archakar in that village about whom also I have earlier written in this forum. He is a retired Bank Officer who is doing the work of an archakar without a salary because the HR &CE Board does not spend any money for the temple though the temple owns large properties in the village. This archakar's son and daughter live in Canada and US and they plead with him to go with them and live comfortably or to go and live in the town nearby where they have a house and they are willing to provide a servant and cook for him and his wife who are old people. But the devotion of this archakar to his Navaneethakrishna is so ardent that he wont desert Him.

This is India and Hinduism. And these are real life examples. Not the droppings of an oldie (quoted) who knows nothing about Hinduism.

There was enough enticements offered in the hundreds of years of alien rule in India. And the rich and Zamindari class converted to the other religions for the benefits. Thus we had most of the Zamindars, and landowners in the Moghul time who were originally from Hindu high class society. The poor kept their faith as it was a question of just faith. With the limited knowledge about scriptures they knew that their religion was not something that can be bartered. And they were not impressed with what was offered as the replacement. Similarly during the time of British rule even though they tried to entice poor people their success was limited to a few sections only. They could not achieve in India what they achieved in the comparable African Continent or say Philippines.

A wood borer drills a hole in the sandalwood tree and what you get is a pleasant fragrance.
A worm in the gutter drills holes in the plankton and muck that are immersed in the sewerage and what you get is stink.

A wood-borer does not know the sewerage and the worm in the gutter does not know the existence of sandalwood tree. LOL.
 
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Vaagmiji,
You have honey for friends and venom for others. If you have strong convictions, which you do, you should have strong words for your supporters too who err.
In post#3 your supporter claimed an exception without naming the person or qualification and you did not chide that post.
Your post#8 make it clear that you do not hate people for their religious backgrounds, you should not allow your supporters to speak against your convictions.
 
Why is Vaagmi calling another forum member "oldie". What kind of indecency is that?

What is the point of building a palace if the foundation is on sand? What is the point of writing intelligent sounding posts couching ad hominem personal attacks?
 
Vaagmiji,
You have honey for friends and venom for others. If you have strong convictions, which you do, you should have strong words for your supporters too who err.
In post#3 your supporter claimed an exception without naming the person or qualification and you did not chide that post.
Your post#8 make it clear that you do not hate people for their religious backgrounds, you should not allow your supporters to speak against your convictions.

prasadji,

I am not running a political party here.

I do not gather a gang around me. I do not want any such gangster with me.

I have no control over other members who come and post here. I can not ask them to do anything nor can I ask them not to do it.

A member may appear to you to be supporting me if he agrees with a certain view expressed by me. I do not mind the same member disagreeing strongly on another view of me when expressed here. He does not become my enemy for that.

Each one speaks for himself here.

I rarely use the PM channel. That too only to respond. I do not seek out people for communication through PMing.

I hope this clears the picture for you.

Now coming to my posts, I respond strongly when someone tries to be judgmental about my views. Otherwise i state my views and stop with that. If they resonate with some one else's views it is okay. When it creates consternation people come here and vent the spleen. Then I express controlled anger as a medium to convey a message. Hope this too is clear.

I repeat I am a lone wolf here. No sweethearts, no friends and no enemies. LOL.
 
Why is Vaagmi calling another forum member "oldie". What kind of indecency is that?

What is the point of building a palace if the foundation is on sand? What is the point of writing intelligent sounding posts couching ad hominem personal attacks?

If I write that biswa hides a fanatic mindset covered cleverly with nice words, will it be considered indecency or not? Will it be considered as personal attack or not -ad hominem or otherwise?

I do not want to impress anyone here with palaces of beautiful words and sentences. I dont need that. I just record my views. If you think you can contribute by adding something do that. Dont try to take vaagmi as a specimen and put him under a microscope or Mass Spectrometer to analyse. I am not interestedd in your analysis of me or the finding. We all come here with our weaknesses and convictions. No exception.

The oldie term is used as a factual expression. Age takes you away from the present and the views to that extent become rigid. That is what is pointed out. I did not use the damaging or abusive term senile.

We have the sarvaroga sanjivani in the form of the ignore button. People can make use of it liberally without the fear of any side effects. Thank you.
 
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It is a classic case of pot calling kettle black.
an empty pot with a bigoted view of caste and religion with a holier than thou attitude .
an anti feminist to the core who spies on personal space of women.including hiring detectives to spy on them.lol
how can such people belong to hindu religion and talk about its glory
it is disgusting to the core
 
It is a classic case of pot calling kettle black.
an empty pot with a bigoted view of caste and religion with a holier than thou attitude .
an anti feminist to the core who spies on personal space of women.including hiring detectives to spy on them.lol
how can such people belong to hindu religion and talk about its glory
it is disgusting to the core

Get someone to endorse your views. Otherwise your views will be just the rantings of an ......... Go and try by PMing every one in this forum. LOL.
 
how can such people belong to hindu religion and talk about its glory

All Members attention please.

Here is the sole Authority for the Hindu religion. Try to make best use of him by availing his wisdom about Hindu religion. :)



P.S:This member coming here talking about Hindu religion is disgusting to the core.
 
Beginning of the great spitting war.lol

A war which is exclusively well known by and well fought out by the retired few "maharishis" who have settled in Delhi.

The prominent characteristics to identify them:

They usually hang that rope called poonool in the coat stand at home. So you get a new definition for poonool there.

They usually claim that they settle marriages in their millions every month by just liberally advising the people. To substantiate they will discover marriages of new non existing relations like Uncle's sambhandi's aththanga's daughter who was looking for a match and how they settled it with their own sambhandi's ammanga's sambhandi's brother's son.

They will offer you free advice without your ever asking for it on how to advertise about your achievements in the marriage ads.

Their children usually never obey them or listen to their advice. Given sufficient provocation they will ask these old people to go and jump into the nearest ocean. It is a different matter that they will not admit it.

With these preliminary info about them you can easily identify them. You will get to know more about such characteristics as you get to know them.
 
Kamsa's strategy: How to conquer brahmins

K.M.Munshi's Krishnavatara

The eighth child of devaki frees itself from the hand of kams and flies out after issuing a warning.

Excerpts:

"The room swam before him. Everything grew dark. Kamsa tottered out of the room as he heard a supernatural voice saying: 'Your destroyer is elsewhere, already born.'

"The next day Kamsa called a council of the men who were loyal to him, among whom was Pralamba, his chief adviser. Pradyota and his wife Putana were also there and there was Bahuka, the old Magadhan warrior, whom Jarasandha had sent to Mathura to look after the interests of his daughters [to whom Kamsa was married].

"Kamsa told them of what had happened, of the strange shriek, of the flying child, and even of the words that he had heard: 'Your destroyer is elsewhere, already born.'

Pralamba, Kamsa's principal adviser, respectfully asked: 'Lord, have I your permission to speak the truth?'

Kamsa nodded assent.

Mighty prince, I fear the words you heard were a warning given to you by the gods,' said Pralamba. 'The people fear you and dare not speak out. But they all await the deliverer.'

'How can we prevent people waiting for the deliverer?' asked Kamsa.

'Lord, people are cowards. They will accept you as the master if you treat them with great hardness. But you will not break their spirit so long as they hope that a deliverer will come,' replied Bahuka.

'How can I avoid their thinking of a deliverer?' 'My master,' said Bahuka, 'their hopes are kept alive by the sages and ascetics and by Brahmans who talk of dharma.'

'You are right. Whatever I do, they call adharma. Bahuka, you are wise. You have been trained under our glorious father-in-law, Jarasandha. You must have had sufficient experience. Let us know what we can do.'

'Lord, the first duty of a powerful ruler is to extinguish the hope of deliverance in his people. This hope, as I said, is kept alive, first, by the ascetics.'


'How shall I deal with them?'

'Mighty Prince, you cannot deal with them easily. They do not covet, nor fear, nor hate. They want nothing for themselves. That is why they are so powerful. But that is not all. There are Brahmans, the men of self-discipline, who have faith in the Sacred Word - the Vedas - and who invoke the gods and teach dharma as something above the might of kings. They will not accept your dictates cheerfully. They judge everyone by the canons of what they call dharma.'

'I have been trying to win them over by lavish grants,' said Kamsa.

'You cannot bribe the sages; nothing will corrupt them. And if you give grants to the Brahmans, I know, they will fatten on them. But in their hearts the thirst for knowledge will remain and they will only take the advice of those who refuse to live in riches.'

'I can kill them surely.'

'Mighty Prince, if you kill them, the people will turn in wrath against you. If you drive them away from Mathura, they will raise enemies for you wherever they go.'

Kamsa listened to Bahuka's words in silence and the old minister continued:

'Mighty Prince, there is only one way to destroy the sages and the Brahmans. Open your purse-strings to the people; teach them to eat, drink and enjoy themselves; break up their families; teach women that chastity is not worth having at the cost of pleasure; bring up children to look upon their parents as old and useless. Once the people begin to believe in unrestrained pleasures as the goal of life, they will look upon the ascetics as deranged and the Brahmans as selfish; they will laugh at those who talk of duty, tapas, love and compassion. When wine flows, self-restraint will disappear; men will be like well-fed cattle at the mercy of their cowherds. Whatever you do they will bear as patiently as uncomplaining beasts, and obey your lash as if it were a favour from you.'

'That is a long path to follow that you have shown us, Bahuka. We shall try to follow it.
 
S Gurumurthy in his talk in Mylapore sanskrit college:

" In the seventies people wearing black shirts, drew and displayed naked pictures of gods and garlended rama with chappals. From the same tamilnadu more than one crore black shirts make the pilgrimage to sabarimala. Several lakhs wearing red clothes visit melamaruvattur.

Ordinary people, who were not even aware of the significance of pradosham, flock to temples on pradosham day. All this is an indication of resurgence of dharma."

For a detailed report in tamil,

Viewer - Linkis.com
 
I have many friends including you Vaagmiji. I may not agree with them all the time, but they are not foes.
 
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