Snake Goddess

[london swaminathan]

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Manasa Devi is worshiped as snake goddess in Bengal. Purva Vishnupur, 50 miles from Kolkatta staged a show of 45 snake charmers. The Indian Express has published 14 photos of this worship.

 

[prasad1]

Have pity on the snake.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/9449-naagpanchami.html#post147912

 

[london swaminathan]

Hi
It is good to have pity on the snakes.
But when Chennai Muslims sacrifice hundreds of camels during Bhakreed the world is keeping quiet.
60,000 thousand horses were killed in horrible conditions in abattoirs in UK every year for meat. I published the photos on face book.
Millions of cows,pigs,billions of chicken killed everyday. At least Hindus did not kill the snakes. Channel 4 in London showed the Nagapanchami and praised Hindus for their environmental awareness.

 

[prasad1]

Hi
It is good to have pity on the snakes.
But when Chennai Muslims sacrifice hundreds of camels during Bhakreed the world is keeping quiet.
60,000 thousand horses were killed in horrible conditions in abattoirs in UK every year for meat. I published the photos on face book.
Millions of cows,pigs,billions of chicken killed everyday. At least Hindus did not kill the snakes. Channel 4 in London showed the Nagapanchami and praised Hindus for their environmental awareness.

Taking out of context and an isolated incident as norm is foolish to say the least. I did not talk of Bali in Kalibari, or killings (torture) of Goats in Hindu Nepal.
But snakes do not drink milk. It is shear foolishness. Snakes are not charmed by snake charmers. THe snakes taken out of their environment dies even if released.
Ignorance has no geographical boundary or age bias.

For Nag Panchami, snakes are captured and often kept in suffocating bags or tiny boxes and starved, have their teeth violently yanked out, or their mouths painfully sewn shut, and are bought into the cities. The snake's venom duct is often pierced with a hot needle, causing the animal's glands to burst. Some snakes damage their eyes when the tikka' applied to their hoods during puja trickle into them.


India holds the world record for the highest snake mortality on a single day.

Intelligent people do not glorify a "foolish practice" just because it was written in a book.
There is difference in killing for food and for pleasure.

 

[Nara]

Hi
It is good to have pity on the snakes.
But when Chennai Muslims sacrifice hundreds of camels during Bhakreed the world is keeping quiet.
60,000 thousand horses were killed in horrible conditions in abattoirs in UK every year for meat. I published the photos on face book.
Millions of cows,pigs,billions of chicken killed everyday. At least Hindus did not kill the snakes. Channel 4 in London showed the Nagapanchami and praised Hindus for their environmental awareness.

Dear LS, why this comparison? Do you think slaughter of animals by one group justifies the cruel torture of snakes by another group? The cruelty involved in the meat production cannot be used to justify cruelty resulting from religious superstitions, both are unacceptable.

BTW, why is Channel 4 the arbiter of environment awareness, are't the West clueless when it comes to the greatness of Hinduism?

regards ....

 

[london swaminathan]

Good. I am also for torture free Naga panchami. That is what they showed on Channel 4 in the UK. They released the snakes after the festival. But it is possible to torture them like the snake charmers around the world.Like the circuses around the world. There is a horrible video on You Tube to show what they do to train the elephants in the circus.

'' All living beings will raise their handsin worship to him who has never taken a living being's life and has abstained from eating meat'' (Valluvar Kural 260)

'' Of what use is one's knowledge if one cannot feel for the sufferings of others as one's own, and ward them off'' (Valluvar Kural 315)

After watching the Animal Rights videos several White children have become vegetarians in London.

Long Live Vegetarians of the World!

 

[Nara]

....After watching the Animal Rights videos several White children have become vegetarians in London.

How about black children, or even brown children, or do these videos affect only White children?

Long Live Vegetarians of the World!

Good that you have an upper case V here. Who are these Vegetarians, are they the same Vegetarians who gulp down the milk extracted from the cows whose calves are sold to be slaughtered as veal? Drink a pint of this milk and you the Vegetarian becomes just as guilty as the ones who enjoy that veal steak. Those who drink the milk of the cows are just as deaf to the grief stricken bellows of the cows earning for their new born calves as those savoring the tender flavor of the slaughtered newborn.

And then, how about all those leather shoes, belts, and seat covers in their cars? Only the smug Brahmins can handle all these contradictions and still claim they are by nature the most honest, the most compassionate, the most moral. etc., etc., Irony galore, all these are supposed to be written into their DNA, Boyd says so, they claim unabashedly and dishonestly.

Please, don't ride the high horse of morality, what you are riding is in fact some other "h".

thank you ....

 

[london swaminathan]

Thanks, Nara.
I am going on holiday for three weeks from tomorrow.
I will try to read all your posts wherever and whenever it is possible.

 

[auh]

How about black children, or even brown children, or do these videos affect only White children?

To be fair, he did not say that only white children have changed.

Good that you have an upper case V here. Who are these Vegetarians, are they the same Vegetarians who gulp down the milk extracted from the cows whose calves are sold to be slaughtered as veal? Drink a pint of this milk and you the Vegetarian becomes just as guilty as the ones who enjoy that veal steak. Those who drink the milk of the cows are just as deaf to the grief stricken bellows of the cows earning for their new born calves as those savoring the tender flavor of the slaughtered newborn.

Two things here:
1) Drinking milk is not equal to eating flesh; a mother gives milk to her baby and I doubt if it can be interpretated to mean that the baby relishes her flesh. This is quite a heinous twist to something very ordinary. Yes, there are cows that are ill treated and are continuously connected to tubes that suck their milk. That is a separate issue and should be discussed on a different perspective. Perhaps we can all agree to consume milk that comes from the local milkman.
2) I notice that you have used an adjective to describe the flesh of the calf. I wouldnt know if it was unintentional or it came from experience.

And then, how about all those leather shoes, belts, and seat covers in their cars? Only the smug Brahmins can handle all these contradictions and still claim they are by nature the most honest, the most compassionate, the most moral. etc., etc.

I agree, we have to be conscious of the same. But now, even Brahmins have taken to meat eating, and the above would seems a far cry. But there are people who abstain from leather products. I know you have not meant all brahmins by this, but only the "smug" ones, but then we have to define who a "smug brahmin" is.

 

[Nara]

To be fair, he did not say that only white children have changed.

Why was the race of the children mentioned? Did that add any value to the point being made? That was my point, i.e. there was no need to mention race.

Two things here:
1) Drinking milk is not equal to eating flesh; a mother gives milk to her baby and I doubt if it can be interpretated to mean that the baby relishes her flesh. This is quite a heinous twist to something very ordinary. Yes, there are cows that are ill treated and are continuously connected to tubes that suck their milk. That is a separate issue and should be discussed on a different perspective. Perhaps we can all agree to consume milk that comes from the local milkman.

The point of contention in general is cruelty to animals, and in particular, religious superstitions leading to torture of animals. LS in a predictable way tried to minimize the cruelty towards snakes with the cruelty inherent in meat eating, as though that serves as a mitigating factor. Please read my comments in this context.

Yes, it would be "quite a heinous twist" if I said the calf feeding is like "the baby relishes her flesh". It is your own constructed strawman. And to you, the calf feeding off the cow is the same as humans expropriating the milk for themselves, really!!!

In any case, my point is the milk industry is no less cruel to the cows compared to the meat industry, and as a corollary, the milk consuming Vegetarians are no less complicit in the cruelty meted out to the cows than the meat eaters. I have nothing to do with the strawman you have constructed, it is all yours.

2) I notice that you have used an adjective to describe the flesh of the calf. I wouldnt know if it was unintentional or it came from experience.

You wouldn't know right, then why must you inform us of this? Don't make this personal. If I have tasted veal that would make me a hypocrite, but what I am saying will still be true.

I agree, we have to be conscious of the same. But now, even Brahmins have taken to meat eating, and the above would seems a far cry. But there are people who abstain from leather products. I know you have not meant all brahmins by this, but only the "smug" ones, but then we have to define who a "smug brahmin" is.

Okay!!!

regards ....

 

[auh]

Why was the race of the children mentioned? Did that add any value to the point being made? That was my point, i.e. there was no need to mention race.

I think he would not have meant it the way you see it; I read his statement as "Even some of the NV group became V." But you saw something else.

Yes, it would be "quite a heinous twist" if I said the calf feeding is like "the baby relishes her flesh". It is your own constructed strawman. And to you, the calf feeding off the cow is the same as humans expropriating the milk for themselves, really!!!

You perhaps did not say in so many words but equated the act of drinking milk to that of eating meat. This is a comparison between incomparables.

You dont have to be demeaning about vegetarians, if you wanted to point out the facts.

You wouldn't know right, then why must you inform us of this? Don't make this personal. If I have tasted veal that would make me a hypocrite, but what I am saying will still be true.

Okay.

Regards,

 

[prasad1]

I think he would not have meant it the way you see it; I read his statement as "Even some of the NV group became V." But you saw something else.

You perhaps did not say in so many words but equated the act of drinking milk to that of eating meat. This is a comparison between incomparables.

You dont have to be demeaning about vegetarians, if you wanted to point out the facts.

Okay.

Regards,

NO ONE can claim that they are not doing some harm to some living being, if they do it would be a lie. So do the least harm you can inflict. Buy milk from an organic farm (ethical milk is available), you can also switch to Soy milk. As far as leather goes get only the unavoidable leather goods. We can minimize the impact we cause.

What one eats or not should be left to individual. I object to unnecessary cruelty in the name of religion, when alternatives are available.

 

[Nara]

I think he would not have meant it the way you see it; I read his statement as "Even some of the NV group became V." But you saw something else.

Just to be sure, my question was, why mention race.... what you see or I see is less important than what was actually said.

You perhaps did not say in so many words but equated the act of drinking milk to that of eating meat. This is a comparison between incomparables.

Again, the comparison is about what the animal is put through, if you can't see that, then let it be.

You dont have to be demeaning about vegetarians, if you wanted to point out the facts.

I am not demeaning anybody, just that you can't tout vegetarians are great while at the same time not even takie the time and effort to find out the cruelty behind milk production, thats all!!!

 

[auh]

Just to be sure, my question was, why mention race.... what you see or I see is less important than what was actually said.

What you have said is directly related to how you perceive his statement.

you can't tout vegetarians are great while at the same time not even takie the time and effort to find out the cruelty behind milk production, thats all!!!

Isn't the highlighted portion a speculation? And I dont seem to have touted that all vegetarians are great!

You can have the last word, should you choose to reply.

 

[prasad1]

The food choices one makes may be right for them at that moment. I can not fault one for their choices, nor can I claim some special status because of my choice at this time.

We all eat a living thing, a plant, a flesh, or enzyme, bacteria. So no one can claim that they did not harm another living thing.
But I do think that we all can cause little less cruelty if we try, and we must.

 

[Nara]

What you have said is directly related to how you perceive his statement.

Isn't the highlighted portion a speculation? And I dont seem to have touted that all vegetarians are great!

You can have the last word, should you choose to reply.

Dear auh, you seem to be a nice guy, you have been very cordial and civil to me and I would like to reciprocate the same to you.

Let us not talk about having the last word. Please do continue if you feel like saying anything, I will only welcome it.

Yes, I know you didn't tout vegetarians are great. But LS did. He was the one I started the argument with. You came in the middle, nothing wrong with that, in fact I welcome it, I am glad you jumped in. So, what I am saying is, my observation about touting was for LS, not you.

Most vegetarians in India or form India do consume milk. Either they are aware of the cruelty inherent in milk production and don't care, or they are unaware and don't care to find out, both cases reveal a lack of thoughtfulness to a lesser or greater degree. In my experience, which amounts to not very much in an argument like this one, not many spares a second thinking about such matters.

As prasad1 observes, we cannot avoid harming non-human species. But I think we can avoid causing unnecessary pain and suffering. Do we really need to separate a new born calf from the cow so that we can start extracting as much milk as possible from day 1? Do we really want to support the milk production that involves new born male calves to be sold for veal production? How can we separate ourselves from such cruelty? That is what I am talking about, not some hollow "long live vegetarians" like LS declared.

auh, please add your comments I welcome it .....

best regards ......