• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

sanatana dharma and today's world ...

Status
Not open for further replies.

happyhindu

Well-known member
Currently to me the responsibilites appear as 2-fold:

1) Responsibility towards society: We are generally told that dealing with certain people is not respectable, keep away from bad people, even worse when we come down to their level heavy criticism pours down as rain, and so on....but truthfully, how many of us are really interested in a better egalitarian society with equal opportunities and better living conditions for all?

2) Responsibility towards religion: We are unable to take things that do not concur with our own ingrained beliefs. Moreover, indians have let western historians (some with vested interests) interpret our religion for us. Hindu culture is rich and diverse. The biggest responsibility is to preserve it. The challenge is to understand it dispassionately. The duty is to accept changes over time.
 
OP
OP
V

vivekam.vairagyam

Active member
Currently to me the responsibilites appear as 2-fold:

1) Responsibility towards society: We are generally told that dealing with certain people is not respectable, keep away from bad people, even worse when we come down to their level heavy criticism pours down as rain, and so on....but truthfully, how many of us are really interested in a better egalitarian society with equal opportunities and better living conditions for all?

2) Responsibility towards religion: We are unable to take things that do not concur with our own ingrained beliefs. Moreover, indians have let western historians (some with vested interests) interpret our religion for us. Hindu culture is rich and diverse. The biggest responsibility is to preserve it. The challenge is to understand it dispassionately. The duty is to accept changes over time.


nice beginning ..

valid points ...
here are some links that can help correct our misperceptions about our history and heritage

http://voiceofdharma.org/
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/

i hope we get to hear more points of view on the subject of this thread ....
 
OP
OP
V

vivekam.vairagyam

Active member
stephen knapp's site is a treasure house .. it also contains a lot of history that begs our second look with an open mind .. much of this is swept under the carpet by the media and establishment .... since , offending those who follow the sanata dharma is a non-issue ....
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
A small diversion. What is Sanatana Dharma? Does it include the religion and beliefs of the Tamilian who worships Muniappan or Masaniamman and gives a Kidavu (Goat) sacrifice the the God/Goddess?

And also many other beliefs/practices which could only be termed as Folk Hinduism. Worship of Folk/Village deities.
 
S

s007bala

Guest
My definition of Sanathana Dharma includes Hindus,Christians,Islams,Judaist,Sikhs..........all the known religions & its religious practices in the world.Instead of LOrd Balaraman or Lord Gautama Buddha or ....i included the ninth avatar of Lord Vishnu in the Dasa Avataram to be Lord A B R A H A M ( B R A H M A A & Saraswathi ) thereby including Judaist,Christians,Islamist...prolly only dude on earth to suggest such a thought or wait a minute maybe Gene Matlock already started it earlier than me?

SB
 
OP
OP
V

vivekam.vairagyam

Active member
My definition of Sanathana Dharma includes Hindus,Christians,Islams,Judaist,Sikhs..........all the known religions & its religious practices in the world.Instead of LOrd Balaraman or Lord Gautama Buddha or ....i included the ninth avatar of Lord Vishnu in the Dasa Avataram to be Lord A B R A H A M ( B R A H M A A & Saraswathi ) thereby including Judaist,Christians,Islamist...prolly only dude on earth to suggest such a thought or wait a minute maybe Gene Matlock already started it earlier than me?

SB

there might be more than jus coincidence regarding why the jewish tradition has for its creator and his consort aBRAHAM & SARAI ... akin to our brahma and saraswati .....
 
S

s007bala

Guest
Shri V V

Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba says

"Bhaja Govindam, Bhaja Govindam
Govindam Bhaja Moodha Mathe
Samprapthe Sannihithe Kale
Nahi Nahi Rakshati Dukrun Karane.
(Oh foolish man, chant the name of Lord Govinda; the rules of grammar
will not come to your rescue when the end approaches.)
Bhrama and Brahma are based on your mind. They are not present
outside. Brahma is within you. But as you are immersed in bhrama
(delusion), you consider Brahma (Divinity) to be a distant entity. Once
you realise that you are Brahma, you will be free from bhrama once for
all. You suffer because you identify yourself with the body. Once you get
rid of body attachment, you will experience everlasting happiness."

Thank you Swami.

sb
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
A small diversion. What is Sanatana Dharma? Does it include the religion and beliefs of the Tamilian who worships Muniappan or Masaniamman and gives a Kidavu (Goat) sacrifice the the God/Goddess?

And also many other beliefs/practices which could only be termed as Folk Hinduism. Worship of Folk/Village deities.

This poser goes very-very deep sir, perhaps where many cannot swim.

To understand Sanatana Dharma, perhaps we also need to know what all has been lost from it first (?). or what did vedism originally contain...

Am curious about this, would be delighted to find answers:

1) The Sama Ved originally had many shakhas out of which 13 shakhas were known to have existed: Ranayana, Vyasa, Bhaguri, Mashaka-Gargya, Shatyamukhya, Oulundi, Goulgulvi, Bhanuman-Oupamanyava, Karati, Varshagavya, Kuthuma, Shalihotra and Jaimini.
But now only 4 or so (?) are remaining, the rest are lost. So where did they go? Did the people practicing them also disappear? What were the reasons the material disappeared? What did those texts contain? Does a semblence of it exist anywhere else?

2) The (yajur) adhvaryus responsible for animal scarifices during yajnas once had a 'high' position in the vedic class of priests. However there came a reform period and animal sacrifices were stopped (some intresting links abt animal sacrifices: http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part5/chap24.htm and http://www.thehindujobs.com/thehindu/2001/08/14/stories/13140833.htm ). Where did these adhvaryus go? Does it mean the brahmana texts that enjoin animal sacrifices were put to disuse? Do part of the practices exist somewhere, perhaps as a village custom of goat sacrifice that you have mentioned above?

After hearing from you, i may want to put forth a few things regarding some migratory patterns that possibly may help shed some light on such things.
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
This poser goes very-very deep sir, perhaps where many cannot swim.

To understand Sanatana Dharma, perhaps we also need to know what all has been lost from it first (?). or what did vedism originally contain...

Am curious about this, would be delighted to find answers:

1) The Sama Ved originally had many shakhas out of which 13 shakhas were known to have existed: Ranayana, Vyasa, Bhaguri, Mashaka-Gargya, Shatyamukhya, Oulundi, Goulgulvi, Bhanuman-Oupamanyava, Karati, Varshagavya, Kuthuma, Shalihotra and Jaimini.
But now only 4 or so (?) are remaining, the rest are lost. So where did they go? Did the people practicing them also disappear? What were the reasons the material disappeared? What did those texts contain? Does a semblence of it exist anywhere else?

Before I post my reply, I would be happy to know the source of your information. Sama Veda is very much alive. A number of Sakhas do exist. I heard the recital a couple of days back. I will post in detail after doing some research and getting your reply.

The second question is easier to answer. But I am afraid that my answers based on history and not on belief may not please any one. Truth hurts.

Vajapeya is regarded as particularly important. When its yajamana (sacrificer) comes after having had his ritual bath (avabhrtha snana) at the conclusion of the sacrifice, the king himself holds up a white umbrella for him. "Vaja" means rice (food) and "peya" means a drink. As the name suggests, the vajapeya sacrifice is believed to bring in a bountiful crop and plentiful water. The name is appropriate in another sense also. This sacrifice consists of soma-rasa homa, pasu-homa (23 animals) and anna - or vaja-homa. The sacrificer is "bathed" in the rice that is left over. Since the rice is "poured over" him like water the term "vajapeya" is apt.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Vajapeya

The former Prime Minister's ancestors did it and that is how the family got the surname Vajpayee. A surname among U.P. Brahmins.
 
S

s007bala

Guest
As far i Know,Adi Shankara stopped many animal sacrifices & human sacrifices,but yet they continue surrepticiusly,in the form of eating non-vegetarian food and in the name of one's countries interest.What goes around comes around,albeit in disguise.Hail Lord Krishna,the Parthasarathy of this atma.

sb
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Before I post my reply, I would be happy to know the source of your information.

The sources are from online and a few books sir. Reg both points mentioned in the post above, i shall send you a private message by this weekend with some stuff that probably might interest you - and also to request for corrections. In the meantime, please do continue to contribute to this thread. Yes sir am aware quite a few shakhas of the Samaved are alive and doing well. It wud be great if you could give us a tour of the vedic texts, their times, practices and changes over time. Thankyou.

Sri N-ji,

May i add a quick note that please take care when telling us abt the vedic times and all....i mean just in case those reading it take any offence (emotional maturity can be a prob to ourselves sometimes)...Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
The problem is that we in India are totally unaware of what is happening in the neighboring states. Many Tamil Brahmins tend to think that we are the only Brahmins who recite the Vedas. No Indian has studied the chanting of the Vedas in different states of India.

The only people who have done extensive studies in the Chanting of the Vedas are the westerners. We quote from Wayne Howard's Veda Recitation in Varanasi and Frits Staal. We are very busy interpreting the Vedas to suit our own purposes. People like Stephen Knapp. The Hare Krishna people do not value the tradition of the recitation of the Vedas. Most Indians do not. Tamilians study Sama Veda to find out the divine origin of Carnatic Music.

The first book on Sama Veda was published by Satyavrata Samasrami Bhattacharya of Kolkata in 1874. He was a Vedic scholar who attended a Veda Patashala in Banares. He was conferred the title of Samsrami because of his proficiency in Sama Veda. He was a Sanskrit scholar who published many books on Vedas and Buddhist Sutras. Bengal is Samaveda country. The Brahmins send their children to Banares for studying Vedas. Some of them even come to Veda Patashalas in Tamil Nadu to learn Vedas. The Sakha he belonged to and the book he wrote about was Kautuma Sakha.

We tend to forget that we do not have Dwivedis, Trivedis, Chaturvedis, and Agnihotris in Tamil Nadu.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Sir,

It does seem like branches of the vedic trunk have been getting lost - either the cyclone of incoming conquests or some unknown reasons. But its deep roots remain unseen, unknown and ever expanding. And people certainly seem to have been moving and adapting (the old world seems far from stagnant since it was pastoral as well).

It wud probably be impossible to tell as such if a village custom indeed once had vedic roots or not. In that sense defining Sanatana, the all encompassing dharma, would be difficult.

Its good to see that the remaining of what's left is being preserved. Hats off to the ones that keep the fire burning or the chants resounding, come what may.

Tamil brahmins seem to have stuck a nice balance b/w philosophies or vedanta and vedic customs.
 

tbs

Well-known member
The problem is that we in India are totally unaware of what is happening in the neighboring states. Many Tamil Brahmins tend to think that we are the only Brahmins who recite the Vedas. No Indian has studied the chanting of the Vedas in different states of India.

The only people who have done extensive studies in the Chanting of the Vedas are the westerners. We quote from Wayne Howard's Veda Recitation in Varanasi and Frits Staal. We are very busy interpreting the Vedas to suit our own purposes. People like Stephen Knapp. The Hare Krishna people do not value the tradition of the recitation of the Vedas. Most Indians do not. Tamilians study Sama Veda to find out the divine origin of Carnatic Music.

The first book on Sama Veda was published by Satyavrata Samasrami Bhattacharya of Kolkata in 1874. He was a Vedic scholar who attended a Veda Patashala in Banares. He was conferred the title of Samsrami because of his proficiency in Sama Veda. He was a Sanskrit scholar who published many books on Vedas and Buddhist Sutras. Bengal is Samaveda country. The Brahmins send their children to Banares for studying Vedas. Some of them even come to Veda Patashalas in Tamil Nadu to learn Vedas. The Sakha he belonged to and the book he wrote about was Kautuma Sakha.

We tend to forget that we do not have Dwivedis, Trivedis, Chaturvedis, and Agnihotris in Tamil Nadu.
hi nacchi sir,
im a sama vedi..........but i studied yajur veda in veda pathasala due to
no availabilty of srowthigal...in sama veda...vadyars are called srowthigal..
my younger brother studied sama veda from kanchipuram veda patashala..
i think only in kanchipuram , the sama veda is available....in north india
dvides/trivedis/chathurvedis only in namesake..like iyer/iyengar..
which is to just surnames.....no more real trivedis/ chathurvedis in
practical....

regards
tbs
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
hi nacchi sir,
im a sama vedi..........but i studied yajur veda in veda pathasala due to
no availabilty of srowthigal...in sama veda...vadyars are called srowthigal..
my younger brother studied sama veda from kanchipuram veda patashala..
i think only in kanchipuram , the sama veda is available....in north india
dvides/trivedis/chathurvedis only in namesake..like iyer/iyengar..
which is to just surnames.....no more real trivedis/ chathurvedis in
practical....

regards
tbs

If you are a Sama Vedi, I think you are in a better position to answer the queries of HH regarding Sama Veda.

About the Veda Patashala teaching Sama Veda I heard the Veda being recited by pundits from the Kauthuma, Dakshina and Gurjara sakhas of Sama Veda early this week. None of them have even heard the name of Tanjore. All very young. Only the Gurus were older in their forties/fifties. And we had Vedic Pundits even from Assam. Sama Veda is taught in Veda patashalas in Banares, Puri and Kolkata. There may be other centers also.

I know only how to recite some Suktham, Upanishads and some other portions of the Vedas. That is my limited knowledge. But I have taken up the study of this tradition for the last two years.

I know that the names dwivedi/trivedi/chathurvedi are only surnames now. But it shows that the U.P. Brahmins studied two or more than two Vedas in the past unlike most of the Tamil Brahmins who restricted themselves to only one Veda.

And they are Vaidic Brahmins and not Smarthas.

And we have to understand that there are only 2/3 Million Tamil Brahmins whereas the U.P Brahmins number around 40 million. The total population of Tamil Nadu is only 66 million.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
Thank you for visiting TamilBrahmins.com

You seem to have an Ad Blocker on.

We depend on advertising to keep our content free for you. Please consider whitelisting us in your ad blocker so that we can continue to provide the content you have come here to enjoy.

Alternatively, consider upgrading your account to enjoy an ad-free experience along with numerous other benefits. To upgrade your account, please visit the account upgrades page

You can also donate financially if you can. Please Click Here on how you can do that.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks