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Rudram and Chamakam

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Dear All,

What is the procedure for doing Rudram and Chamakam ?

The mantras and slokams are available. I am not asking about that ?

What I mean is the proper procedure around :

1. What time of the day it should be done ? any restrictions ?
2. Should be done in empty stomach ?
3. Should absolute madi (cleanliness) needs to be maintained ? done with wet clothes immediately after bath or so ?
4. What is the vidhi ? Prasadams and what kind of prasadams to be offered to Siva perumal ?
5. Should it be done after Sandhyavandhanam ?


Would be great if u can help.

regards,
Deva
 

kgopalan

Active member
rudhram and chamakam are veda mantrams. it should be learned first with the help of one vadhyar; then only you can chant daily take a bath in the morning before sunrise daily; do sandhya vandhanam and gayathri japam . then you may chant rudhram and chamakam . no neivedhyam is necessary. no empty stomach. you shoud not do with wet clothes. wear madi vasthram. wear thilak on your forehead.
 
Dear Sri N R Lakshminarasimham

Appreciate what you said about using a CD and a book. Some folk nowadays think this is the fashionable and cheap thing to do. But it is entirely the wrong method. Even a video is of no use.

If you are truly serious, Rudram, Chamakam and the sookthams such as Durga Sooktham have to be learned only through guru mukham -- one-to-one personal instruction from a Veda-Brahmana, an elder who is proficient in the Vedams, or a shaasthrigal.

Self-instruction can lead to errors which will negate the results you seek, and even lead to adverse repercussions. Lord Shiva-Rudran is not a deity to be trifled with or angered.

Please wear vibhoothi -- three horizontal stripes -- on your forehead, to show respect to the deity.

But if you insist on taking the risk, nothing more needs to be said.

S Nartayanaswamy Iyer
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Sri N R Lakshminarasimham

Appreciate what you said about using a CD and a book. Some folk nowadays think this is the fashionable and cheap thing to do. But it is entirely the wrong method. Even a video is of no use.

If you are truly serious, Rudram, Chamakam and the sookthams such as Durga Sooktham have to be learned only through guru mukham -- one-to-one personal instruction from a Veda-Brahmana, an elder who is proficient in the Vedams, or a shaasthrigal.

Self-instruction can lead to errors which will negate the results you seek, and even lead to adverse repercussions. Lord Shiva-Rudran is not a deity to be trifled with or angered.

Please wear vibhoothi -- three horizontal stripes -- on your forehead, to show respect to the deity.

But if you insist on taking the risk, nothing more needs to be said.

S Nartayanaswamy Iyer

Dear Sir,

Can you explain why you have written Lord Shiva - Rudhran is not a diety to be angered?

Can you kindly quote any relevant bonafide text that supports the stand that any form of Divinity comes with anger issues.

As far as I know the Angry God syndrome is an Abrahamic one.

Could the so called anger of Rudhran be our own fear ?
 

Just look up the meaning of रौद्र in any good Sanskrit dictionary. Rudran is a Vedic god. The Semitic tribes got it from us. According to tradition, only those who have had upanayanam done in the proper manner are qualified to study the Vedas. Rudram and Chamakam are Veda manthrams. Thanks.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

renuka

Well-known member

Just look up the meaning of रौद्र in any good Sanskrit dictionary. Rudran is a Vedic god. The Semitic tribes got it from us. According to tradition, only those who have had upanayanam done in the proper manner are qualified to study the Vedas. Rudram and Chamakam are Veda manthrams. Thanks.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

Yes..I know the meaning of Raudra.. root word
रुद्र अण्...Violent...
Wrathful..rage..fierceness.

But thats just describing an emotion which even we humans have.

My question is how Rudhran the deity became to be known as the Angry One?

I would want to be furnished with evidence from religious text and not a dictionary.
 

renuka

Well-known member
What are we really addressing in Rudhram?
All aspects of existence?
Every aspect of our own emotions including anger?

Is it our own emotions that need to be controlled hence we project it externally on a Diety and tremble with fear we mistake to be external but in reality its our own internal turmoil?

Narayanswamy Ji...kindly clear my doubts.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Does the 'story' of KAma DEvA convince you, Renu?

No RR ji.

Thats a Purana story.

The Rudhram is in the Taittririya Samhita of Krishna Yajurveda 4th Kanda 5th Prasna.

Rudhra is supposed to be a Vedic Deity that has 2 personalities...sort of Jekyll and Hyde.
The Auspicious gentle side is Shiva as we know Him to be.

So I would like some info here as the original form is the Rudra form and the Shiva form the auspicious form is the other form.

So doesnt this from anger to auspiciousness denote our own mindset?
From anger we become calm upon knowing the Truth?

So is Rudra just our own anger?

I need some info here.
 
Doctor Renuka

Thanks for your queries.

Had they been raised by a Brahmachaari or by a Gruhasthan both of whose parents were Brahmins and all four of whose grandparents were also Brahmins, the learned and discriminating religious preceptor in whose paatashaala or Veda-class they were receiving upadesham would have assessed and evaluated the shishya's suitability to receive further instruction under the cloak of rahasyam (as done during upanayanam), and acted upon his assessment and evaluation.

Our texts say, among other things:-

"The learned teacher should correctly explain to that disciple who has self-control and a tranquil mind, and has approached him in the prescribed manner, the knowledge of Brahman (here Rudran) revealing the imperishable and eternal Being."

All I need to say now is that just as a dropped incendiary bomb can burn your home to the ground, a blazing fire in your hearth on a cold night can keep you warm and cosy. Just as untamed atomic power can reduce Hiroshima and Nagasaki to ashes, so can atomic-powered engines drive the USS Carl Vinson from the US to Singapore, thence to Australia and further on to the Japan Sea.

Lord Shiva-Rudran is a powerful God. Whether you want to please Him and win Him over to your side (e.g. by chanting the panchaakshara mahaa manthram), or insult Him and call him nothing but a projection of human anger and a deity (NOT Diety, doctor) before whom you "tremble with fear", is entirely your choice as a human endowed with intelligence. Some might say that in this case, ignorance is probably no excuse for bizarre presumptions.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

renuka

Well-known member
Doctor Renuka

Thanks for your queries.

Had they been raised by a Brahmachaari or by a Gruhasthan both of whose parents were Brahmins and all four of whose grandparents were also Brahmins, the learned and discriminating religious preceptor in whose paatashaala or Veda-class they were receiving upadesham would have assessed and evaluated the shishya's suitability to receive further instruction under the cloak of rahasyam (as done during upanayanam), and acted upon his assessment and evaluation.

Our texts say, among other things:-

"The learned teacher should correctly explain to that disciple who has self-control and a tranquil mind, and has approached him in the prescribed manner, the knowledge of Brahman (here Rudran) revealing the imperishable and eternal Being."

All I need to say now is that just as a dropped incendiary bomb can burn your home to the ground, a blazing fire in your hearth on a cold night can keep you warm and cosy. Just as untamed atomic power can reduce Hiroshima and Nagasaki to ashes, so can atomic-powered engines drive the USS Carl Vinson from the US to Singapore, thence to Australia and further on to the Japan Sea.

Lord Shiva-Rudran is a powerful God. Whether you want to please Him and win Him over to your side (e.g. by chanting the panchaakshara mahaa manthram), or insult Him and call him nothing but a projection of human anger and a deity (NOT Diety, doctor) before whom you "tremble with fear", is entirely your choice as a human endowed with intelligence. Some might say that in this case, ignorance is probably no excuse for bizarre presumptions.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

Dear Sir,

The question has been raised by a person who is not having the signs and symptoms that you have mentioned..ranging from Brahmacharin or Ghrhasta of unbroken DNA of the 1st Varna studying in a Vedapathashala and assessed as fit as having Shraddha to receieve the Upadesh...the person asking is not even male to start with.

I directed this question to you hoping to get some detail info but kya answer Narayana Ji?

Koi correlation nahin hain?
Hiroshima Aur Nagasaki?


Koi evidence bhi nahin hain aapke jawab mein.

Yeh kya dialogue hain?




Its your own definition of Rudra the Deity as an Angry one.

Mujhe evidence chahiye.

In fact there is no insult to Rudhra here at all.
If we see God as seperate from us then His anger is not our anger and our anger is not His anger.

But if we go into deeper level every expression of ours is a micro cosmic representation of the macro cosm.

So is the Anger of Rudhra the violent manisfestation of the act of Dissolution?

I hope you could shed some light..O learned respected Dwija from Janam Janam.

Lakhon Salaam.
 
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I would like to have the Rudram Namakam chamkam verses to read in Tamil with meaning described for each verses to understand before chanting it. Sri Gopalanji, Renukaji, Rajiram madam may helpout.
 
I need some info here.

If you really need correct info on Rudra's origins, then you should start your search at Rg Veda starting with marut-gaNas and cover many of the kAndas (not just 4th kAndA) of taittiriya samhitA and taittiriya brAhmaNam, then reach ekAdasha RudrAs in taittiriya Aranyaka and culminate in mahAnArAyaNa Upanisad of T.A.
 
I would like to have the Rudram Namakam chamkam verses to read in Tamil with meaning described for each verses to understand before chanting it. Sri Gopalanji, Renukaji, Rajiram madam may helpout.

RK Math has published rudram chamakam praSnam togetherwith diacritics in devanAgari, tamizh transliteration. I do not know if it contains tamizh translation. Please checkout RK Matt publications website.
 

renuka

Well-known member
If you really need correct info on Rudra's origins, then you should start your search at Rg Veda starting with marut-gaNas and cover many of the kAndas (not just 4th kAndA) of taittiriya samhitA and taittiriya brAhmaNam, then reach ekAdasha RudrAs in taittiriya Aranyaka and culminate in mahAnArAyaNa Upanisad of T.A.

Time to take out my Rg Veda Samhita for some studying.

Thanks.
 
ചികിത്സകി രേണുകേ -- നിങ്ങള്ടെ പൂറ്വീക ഭാഷയായ ഹിന്ദി എനിക്ക് മനസ്സിലാകുന്നില്ല. ആയതുകൊണ്ട് ഏന്റെ സ്വന്തം പൂറ്വീക ഭാഷയായ മലയാളത്തില് മറുപടി അയക്കുന്നു. തെത്തിദ്ധരിക്കരുതു.

ഈ മത്സരം ആവിശ്യമില്ലാത്തതാണ്. ഞാന് നിങ്ങള്ടെ ഗുരുവല്ല.

ആണ് ബ്രാഹ്മണന്മാര്ക്ക് മാത്രമേ ബ്രഹ്മോപദേശവും വേദോപദേശവും കിട്ടാന് അധികാരമുള്ളു എന്നു മുമ്പേ ഞാന് പറഞ്ഞിട്ടുണ്ടല്ലോ. ഈ കലിയുഗത്തില് പ്രത്യേഗിച്ച് ആരാണ് ശിഷ്യസ്ഥാനത്തിന്നു ഉചിതരെന്നു പരീക്ഷിച്ചേ നിര്ണയിക്കാവുള്ളു. ഏന്റെ മുന്പറഞ്ഞ വാര്ത്തകളെ ഒരു തരം കൂടി വായിക്കുക. ശ്രദ്ധയോട് വായിച്ചാല് ഒരു സമയം മനസ്സിലാകാം.

ഇതോടെ ഈ മത്സരം തീരട്ടെ.

സു നാരായണസ്വാമി പട്ടര്
 

tks

0
Dear Sri N R Lakshminarasimham

Appreciate what you said about using a CD and a book. Some folk nowadays think this is the fashionable and cheap thing to do. But it is entirely the wrong method. Even a video is of no use.

If you are truly serious, Rudram, Chamakam and the sookthams such as Durga Sooktham have to be learned only through guru mukham -- one-to-one personal instruction from a Veda-Brahmana, an elder who is proficient in the Vedams, or a shaasthrigal.

Self-instruction can lead to errors which will negate the results you seek, and even lead to adverse repercussions. Lord Shiva-Rudran is not a deity to be trifled with or angered.

Please wear vibhoothi -- three horizontal stripes -- on your forehead, to show respect to the deity.

But if you insist on taking the risk, nothing more needs to be said.

S Nartayanaswamy Iyer

Just saw this thread including the post in Malayalam :) Google Translate did a decent job actually.

I think there is wisdom in recommending that chanting be learnt from a qualified teacher rather than from a CD,
This has nothing to do with Sri Rudhra getting angry and punishing for chanting poorly.

First, not learning properly shows lack of Shraddha and such attitudes will spill into other aspects of life leading to less peace of mind.

Second, a qualified teacher (unlike a CD) can correct the pronunciation.

Though I tried to learn the chanting many years ago with a qualified person whose pronunciation and intonation etc are known to superbly accurate, I really gave up chanting because with the practice time I could devote to I was making far too many mistakes.

It is equally effective to listen to a CD and meditate to the chanting with the right attitude. But if one wants to learn properly they should find a qualified teacher.

The meditation (upasana) while listening (or chanting) Sri Rudram is enhanced when one has proper understanding of the meaning.

It is not possible to get the proper meaning and insights from ritualistic persons and those that have studied in Veda Patashalas. One cannot get answers to the meaning by digging more into karma kanda sections of the Vedas wither

One needs a qualified teacher. There are many other pre-requisites to learning that the teacher will impart.

I am reminded this post from the archives
https://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=22878&p=287245#post287245

There is but one example to make this point for need for a teacher,

नमो॒ वञ्च॑ते परि॒वञ्च॑ते स्तायू॒नांपत॑ये॒ नमो॒ in Anuvaka 3 - the meaning is Namaskaram to the one who cheats now and then, one who cheats all the time and the one who is the God of those who steal !

How can one possibly understand the above without a proper teacher?

This angry God is a cheat? And God of those that steal??

Anyway the opening post is about learning the chanting. I think Sri Gopalan and Sri Narayanaswami Iyer have shared their views well.
 

renuka

Well-known member
There is but one example to make this point for need for a teacher,

नमो॒ वञ्च॑ते परि॒वञ्च॑ते स्तायू॒नांपत॑ये॒ नमो॒ in Anuvaka 3 - the meaning is Namaskaram to the one who cheats now and then, one who cheats all the time and the one who is the God of those who steal !

How can one possibly understand the above without a proper teacher?

.

Its usually to denote the Polar opposite of the Deity called Rudra.
That He verily has 2 facets to His personality.

When we think of any divine entity we usually divorce any negativity from It and focus only on its positivity in that process we are not able to comprehend that Divinity is present in the Good the Bad and everything else in between.

If Divinity is the Lord of the virtuous ...Salutations upon Him for He is also the Lord of the Non Virtuous..He is verily Lord of all.

We have to embrace both aspects of Divinity..if we only subscribe to the positivity we only address 50% of Him.
 
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