Results of karma

[P.J.]

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[h=1]Results of karma[/h]
We should never ask God for anything except moksha. It is not right to make demands of God. What we suffer in life is the result of our karma, and we cannot escape the consequences of our karma. V.S. Karunakarachariar narrated, in a discourse, an episode in the life of Appayya Dikshitar to show how great men accept their lot without complaining.

Appayya Dikshitar suffered from an unbearable stomach pain. But he did not want to cancel the classes for his students. He was also particular that his teaching should not be compromised because of his pain. So he took some grass and transferred his pain to the grass and taught the students. At the end of the classes, he transferred the pain back to his stomach.

Noticing this, one of his students asked Dikshitar why he did not take a bigger clump of grass and transfer all his pain to it once and for all. Dikshitar replied that his stomach ache was the result of his past actions. He had to pay for all his acts of omission and commission. So it was only proper that he pay for his karma.

Bhishma prayed that he should face in this janma itself the consequences of all his karma in all his previous births, so that when he departed from this world, he would go to God with a clean account. There would be no deficits to be carried over to another birth; there would be no need for another birth. It takes a lot of courage to speak as Bhishma did.


We would be afraid to make such a request to God, for we do not know what sins we would have committed in previous births and we would, therefore, be scared of what we might have to face. But whatever the consequences, we have to face them sooner or later. There is no running away from these consequences. Bhishma knew this, and so he prayed that his karma be wiped out in this janma itself.


When all the Gopikas ran out on hearing flute notes played by Lord Krishna , one alone was denied permission by her mother-in-law.

Shocked at this separation from Krishna, she died at once. But the real reason is that her karma meant she had to die then.
Hindu Dated: 24 March 2011

 

[sangom]

We should never ask God for anything except moksha. It is not right to make demands of God. What we suffer in life is the result of our karma, and we cannot escape the consequences of our karma.

Dear PJ,

Have you noticed the self-contradiction in the above assertion by whoever that discourse-wallah was? If we cannot escape the consequences of our Karmas and, by implication, if God cannot give us an exemption or bail us out from that, how come the God will be able to facilitate our Moksha? Obviously, NO.

Such concocted trivialities and invented anecdotes used to be regularly served by our Pravacanakartas, with spectacular stage-acting, emotions etc., so that the irredeemably gullible audience will lap these up and in the result the discourse-wallah will get a bit more cash in the thaambaaLam and more publicity. But times have changed and in this 21st. century India is looking to become at least a developed country, if not a Superpower. Some of our esteemed members here feel that our country has the potential for that. But, do you think that with a populace believing such stories and building their views on life based on such baseless stories, will be helpful in making this country a progressive one?

I am glad that you are proving yourself very good as a "Thread Starter" but my sincere and humble request to you is to kindly filter your threads so that we do not serve such stories to the youngsters who may happen to read this forum pages.

If Appayya Dixitar could transfer his stomach pain to a clump of grass, why did not he tell the secret to any of his disciples so that, at least some people down the ages could have got some respite from, say, pain caused by cancer in the stomach? The Hindu may publish such things in their usual 'spirituality' (Atmeeyam) box, because that paper has a captive readership from among oldies but the question is, should we help spread such ludicrous news?

And in what way did this "trick" help Appayya Dixitar in getting moksham - did it hasten or delay?

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Sangom, your post#2
One of the brilliant and hard hitting post in TB site.
I too feel Mr. PJ has this obsession of starting threads.
But most of them are based on stories, which were parables at best.
The answer I want to give to most thread is same.
"Please understand that these are parables, do not take it literally."
Having said that I have decided not to post it in every thread.

 

[sangom]

As regards Gopi who was prevented from going to Krishna for raasakreeda by her husband (not MIL as far as I have seen in Bhagavatam), Bhagavatam says that she fantacized about her being in union with Krishna and thus obtained satisfaction. Kindly read Srimad bhagavatam Canto X Chapter-32; in verse 5 and verse-15 you will see that the whole thing was about physical union (breasts, cupid, etc.) and not anything spiritual.

 

[sangom]

Mr. Sangom, your post#2
One of the brilliant and hard hitting post in TB site.
I too feel Mr. PJ has this obsession of starting threads.
But most of them are based on stories, which were parables at best.
The answer I want to give to most thread is same.
"Please understand that these are parables, do not take it literally."
Having said that I have decided not to post it in every thread.

Thank you Shri Prasad, My only worry is how a small populace (tabras, I mean) which obstinately refuses to move forward from its medieval fantasies, will be able to do anything to propel this country into the 21st. century's pride of place!!

 

[prasad1]

It always fascinates me that Raslila supposed to have happened in Brindhawan, with gopies.
According to the timeline Krishna left Brindhawan when he was 10, never to return back to Brindhavan.
This depictions of Raslila is for a grown up Krishna, which can not be true. So either the whole is a romantic story, or a high philosophy.

To me it looks like they want to depict the gopies as Atma, always clamoring to be united with krishna (paratma).
That is a better explanation than the salacious one.

I personally do not want to believe in the mythological story, I would rather consider Krishna as a realized soul.



Age of Lord Krishna Description
Birth In the month of Sravana, around July 19th 3227 BC in a prison cell in Mathura city to Vasudev and Devki.
0 to 3 years Lived in the neighboring town of Gokul with Nand and Yashoda, performed bal leela, including killing of demoness Putana, Trinivatra etc.
3 to 7 years Started living in Vrindavan, Killing of Demons Bakasura, Aghasura and Dhanuka.
7-10 years Lifting of Govardhan hill, played rasleelas with Gopis, Invited for a wrestling match by Kansa which results in his killing.
10 – 28 years Lived in Mathura and protected it from many Demons. Took the lessons in all the sixty four arts from Muni Sandeepani and perfected all the arts.
29 – 125 years Established kingdom in the city of Dwarka with Brother Balram. Married Rukmini and 16000 other princesses. Helped Pandavas win the battle of Mahabharata, explains teachings to Arjuna later written down by Rishi Vyas as Bhagwad Gita.
125th Year Fall of Yaduvanshi dynasty due to fraternal killing. Disappearance of Lord Krishna on 18th February 3102 BC.

Sri Krishna's Lifetime Chart,Krishna Life,Krishna Chronology
krishna

 

[Govinda]

Sangam Ji,

I agree that moksha granting Lord should also exempt all our karma's. But, that would make us relax or dwell in our passions, and expect the Lord grant moksha for all and for anything. So, we should make our efforts to live the best sAttvik life possible, and the rest will be in the hands of the moksha-grantor. Gita has a clear message, " You make an effort and I will make myself known to you."

When I was young, my distant aunt would relieve my painful sprains with just some mantras and she also relieves jaundices (extract yellow into a cup). Those mantras and their powers are true. But, those cannot be at our rescue forever, we should be responsible for our right actions regarding mental and physical health.

But times have changed and in this 21st. century India is looking to become at least a developed country, if not a Superpower.

We will be a superpower, but we would all be zombies due to pollution and food scarcity, radiation from nuclear plants and our own electronic gadgets. Seems like we forgot about the Garbage plague news of Bangalore and 60 million with diabetes and Indian doctors convincing the patients with 190 random sugar as normal! Do you want India to be super-power but its people limping??

 

[sangom]

Sangam Ji,

I agree that moksha granting Lord should also exempt all our karma's. But, that would make us relax or dwell in our passions, and expect the Lord grant moksha for all and for anything. So, we should make our efforts to live the best sAttvik life possible, and the rest will be in the hands of the moksha-grantor. Gita has a clear message, " You make an effort and I will make myself known to you."

When I was young, my distant aunt would relieve my painful sprains with just some mantras and she also relieves jaundices (extract yellow into a cup). Those mantras and their powers are true. But, those cannot be at our rescue forever, we should be responsible for our right actions regarding mental and physical health.

Shri Govinda,

I firmly believe that there is no Moksha-granting God (in fact, there is no God except the power which manifests in us as Life) and that our Karmas control the rebirth. Hence, AFAI am concerned, we alone can strive towards reducing our Karma backlog and further loads and thus prevent rebirth.

We will be a superpower, but we would all be zombies due to pollution and food scarcity, radiation from nuclear plants and our own electronic gadgets. Seems like we forgot about the Garbage plague news of Bangalore and 60 million with diabetes and Indian doctors convincing the patients with 190 random sugar as normal! Do you want India to be super-power but its people limping??

If you are confident that we will make India a superpower, even if we limp, then there is more than enough scope for us, as a people, to overcome the pollution, starvation, garbage, the plague and the diabetes, imho. We need not worry about "a limping nation - a super-power"

 

[P.J.]

There is a story behind posting this post and which might be trivial to some of the learned members;
my younger sister was suffering from blood cancer and she was having severe pain in her body , especially in her stomach.
She was very religious minded and always reciting slogams etc type; she used to teach Sanskrit slogams to who ever willing to learn; she even got first prize in reciting Sri Venkateswara Subrapatham recitation competition held by Thirupathy Devasthanam in T Nagar.
I was wondering how such a pious lady could get such a dreaded a disease and asked a pundit who used to visit her home regularly; He then told me about this 'Appayya Dikshitar' story and also about how Bheesma suffered consequences of all his karma etc I got this link from searching Google and thought that this might give an answer to all those who are like me wanted to find an an answer to a question "why good people also suffer"; and that is the reason i posted it
under " knowledge to share" so that it may be useful to some.
Learned members could easily find some of my others posts here only to 'Share' and not to invite any counters .
This post is not to invite any counters, whereas my other posts are to clear some of my doubts.

I am sure that the learned V.S. Karunakarachariar who delivered this discourse is much more learned than who question his logic.

 

[sangom]

There is a story behind posting this post and which might be trivial to some of the learned members;
my younger sister was suffering from blood cancer and she was having severe pain in her body , especially in her stomach.
She was very religious minded and always reciting slogams etc type; she used to teach Sanskrit slogams to who ever willing to learn; she even got first prize in reciting Sri Venkateswara Subrapatham recitation competition held by Thirupathy Devasthanam in T Nagar.
I was wondering how such a pious lady could get such a dreaded a disease and asked a pundit who used to visit her home regularly; He then told me about this 'Appayya Dikshitar' story and also about how Bheesma suffered consequences of all his karma etc I got this link from searching Google and thought that this might give an answer to all those who are like me wanted to find an an answer to a question "why good people also suffer"; and that is the reason i posted it
under " knowledge to share" so that it may be useful to some.
Learned members could easily find some of my others posts here only to 'Share' and not to invite any counters .
This post is not to invite any counters, whereas my other posts are to clear some of my doubts.

I am sure that the learned V.S. Karunakarachariar who delivered this discourse is much more learned than who question his logic.

Shri PJ,

Since I am the person who questioned the post as also the logical fallacy in the Appayya Deekshitar anecdote contained therein, I take it that your above message is directed at me.

"Why bad things happen to good people" is a perennial doubt in human minds and we have no convincing answers for that. Perhaps the Karma theory is the best possible answer; may be humanity stumbles upon better answers in future.

With no disrespect to anyone, purely at the analytical level, the above question/doubt (Why bad things happen to good people) presupposes that the doubter sets the terms, viz., that a certain person is a good one, and some bad thing has happened to him/her. In reality, we don't know either. Whoever appears as good need not necessarily be so and whatever appears bad also need not necessarily be. Of course, at the mundane level we people will definitely feel so sometimes, but the answer is that we cannot set the terms.

My own belief is that Karma controls this entire creation and we are able to see just a momentary flash of the whole show. We play our parts, again as directed by our Karmas and that is it.

Karunakarachariar may be very learned but as long as he did not give a logically satisfying answer to the question that "if as Appayya Dixitar himself reportedly answered his doubting student's query as to why he did not take a bigger clump of grass and transfer all his pain to it once and for all?" saying that he (appayya Dixitar) was suffering of stomach ache as the result of his past actions, and that he, therefore, had to pay for all his acts of omission and commission, how did he know that he could get temporary relief by the clump-of-grass device and further that this would not entail him from suffering the left-over pains in another birth?", I think that Achariar was lacking in his skills or just telling whatever he had read without any analysis. He therefore needs to be told about it, I feel.

I have noted that your posts are for merely sharing your knowledge and not for being commented. Sorry, I reacted in this case. But according to the usual practice in this forum all threads are supposed to be for comments.

 

[P.J.]

Sri songom
'kindly filter your threads so that we do not serve such stories to the youngsters who may happen to read this forum pages' is an unwanted comment when this topic is posted here and not as 'thread'
Again how do you come to the conclusion that "Appayya Dikshitar story' will not serve any purpose to the youngsters?
When my sister was suffering with pain,everyone was asking how such a pious lady got this: her daughter and son (who are not old)consoled themselves reading about this great saint; they understood that even if someone is good, their past karma will catch them up.This story was appreciated by everyone irrespective of their age.
Please do not judge any point from your angle,you are not the spokes person for all the younger generation.
I sincerely think that learned member Prasad Sir ' has made an hasty comment "I too feel Mr. PJ has this obsession of starting threads'.

I have also shared many topics here.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. PJ,
I am not hasty, it is my observed opinion.
Secondly if every story told by a story teller is factual, then we in far more trouble.
The animals would be speaking like Dr. Doolittle, superman would be saving us from natural disasters etc.
A story is told to divert your attention, and focus on the message the story teller wants to convey.
Miracles do not happen, there is only unexplained occurrences. Sometimes the a smarter person may have a reasonable explanation.

Ask any honest magician they will tell you it is only an illusion, and no magic at all.

 

[sangom]

Sri songom
'kindly filter your threads so that we do not serve such stories to the youngsters who may happen to read this forum pages' is an unwanted comment when this topic is posted here and not as 'thread'
Again how do you come to the conclusion that "Appayya Dikshitar story' will not serve any purpose to the youngsters?
When my sister was suffering with pain,everyone was asking how such a pious lady got this: her daughter and son (who are not old)consoled themselves reading about this great saint; they understood that even if someone is good, their past karma will catch them up.This story was appreciated by everyone irrespective of their age.
Please do not judge any point from your angle,you are not the spokes person for all the younger generation.
I sincerely think that learned member Prasad Sir ' has made an hasty comment "I too feel Mr. PJ has this obsession of starting threads'.

I have also shared many topics here.

Shri PJ,

I still feel it is far better to bring up our children and younger people on a more rational atmosphere instead of relying on such half-baked stories dished out by some discourse-giver or another; it is my considered view (incidentally I am also of your age) to ensure a more rational upbringing for our coming generations, because it is because of such stories that moulded our previous generations, that for centuries India has not made any progress in any field and is a failure in any worthwhile modern field.

You will kindly note that the crux of the problem was because "such a pious lady" was suffering; suppose she was not so pious - then there will be no problem and no tears will be shed, no compassion, no Appayya Dixitar and his clump of grass! is this what the younger generation should be taught?

It is this approach of equating piety with goodness that I am against. I agree that I am not the spokesperson for all the younger generation; by the same token none of us is, you may kindly note and it is only our individual perceptions which we write here. Had the anecdote been logically sound, I would not have objected.