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Problem of Identity...

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srikrish85

Member
2 weeks ago, in the sunday, I went to the Gurudwara in GN Chetty road. All Sardars were welcoming. I made friends with some of them too.. :). But all I can see is... many Hindu names. I met some punjabi hindus too in the Gurudwara. Many Punjabi Hindus say they prefer the Gurudwara to Hindu Mandirs... but when enquired to a Punjabi Hindu, about the Sikhs.. he says "Sikh Hindu hain". I can see a lot of Hindu names in Sikhs... I also read about Guru Granth and saw many references to Vedas, Rama, Krishna, Dhroo (Dhruva), Prahlad, Narhar(Narasimma Avatharam),etc. I also came across Saring Pani (Saranga Pani), Gobind( Govinda), Gopal, Bittal (Vittloa),etc. They also celebrate Diwali, Lohri (Pongal... I suppose... I may be wrong), Dussera, etc. Still they are anti-hindu. They like to distance away from hinduism... but keep on having names like Ram Singh, Kishan Singh, Hari Singh, Harjyoth (Light of Hari), Harbhajan (Hari Bhajan)...etc... Can anyone enlighten me about this? Are they putting up a false claim that theirs is a separate religion? [but I went to langar...Superb Prasadam.. .:preggers:burp... hehe]
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear srikrish85,

Pl. read this book: Sikhism: A very short introduction

By Eleanor M. Nesbitt
 
OP
OP
srikrish85

srikrish85

Member
hmm... from google books only a few pages are available... The author stresses the point, that sikhs are different from Hindus. But Sikhs were Hindus. I can quote 1000s of references to Bhabheekhan (Vibheeshna), Narhar (Narasimha), Dhroo (Dhruva), Sukdev (Sukar), Janak (Janakar), Prahlad, Sudhama,etc. It is nothing but a pantheism directly derived from Hinduism. I say so because I went thro' the whole book (Granth). There is nothing offending a Hindu in that book. Even Harmindir Sahib is Hari Mandir Sahib (Vishnu Temple). The Vishnu Idol was thrown away from the Gurdwara in 1905 (or 1906). After 1984 from all the gurudwaras statues were removed for security reasons. I strongly vouch, Sikhs are Hindus.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
sri,

have you ever tried telling a sikh that he is a hindu. please don't as i do not want you to get hurt. :)

because the religion was born in india, we do not mind accommodating them. same as we treat buddhism or jainism. but it might be worthwhile to remember that these were reformist movements against the corruption of casteism and hierarchical ritual oriented brahminism.

i heard some fool say once that the sikhs are the warrior arm of hinduism. such defeatist attitude and nonsense i had never heard before.

sri, sikhs like to believe they are a distinct group. let us respect that.
 

sangom

Well-known member
hmm... from google books only a few pages are available... The author stresses the point, that sikhs are different from Hindus. But Sikhs were Hindus. I can quote 1000s of references to Bhabheekhan (Vibheeshna), Narhar (Narasimha), Dhroo (Dhruva), Sukdev (Sukar), Janak (Janakar), Prahlad, Sudhama,etc. It is nothing but a pantheism directly derived from Hinduism. I say so because I went thro' the whole book (Granth). There is nothing offending a Hindu in that book. Even Harmindir Sahib is Hari Mandir Sahib (Vishnu Temple). The Vishnu Idol was thrown away from the Gurdwara in 1905 (or 1906). After 1984 from all the gurudwaras statues were removed for security reasons. I strongly vouch, Sikhs are Hindus.
Dear Srikrish and Kunjuppu,

Sikh religion, as Kunjuppu says, was born in India and has taken a lot of the devotional aspects, mostly Vaishnavism. It was a reformist movement against the brahminical hinduism with its discrimination of the lower castes. The Sikh separatism owes its origin to post-independence developments. If you google for "sikh separatism" you will get a lot of information (from either side of the divide) that will thhrow light on the sikh psyche and their grievances against Hindus, the majority community. Hence Kunjuppu's timely caution!

Despite all their grievances as a group, the very fact that the sikhs admit everyone, including hindus in their gurdwaras and also to their Langars, shows their tolerance IMO.

Personally, I have experienced that their "Shabad" if sung by competent singers,with minimum accompaniment of the harmonium and tabla, is worth hearing and one will get transported to a different level of mind.
 

sankara_sharmah

Active member
Guru Gobind Singh was a Chandi Upasaka. He conducted a Chandi Yagna almost every day in Anandapur Sahib. He wrote a poem about Chandi called Chandi Di Var.

You can see the present interpretation here.

Sikh Information Guru Nanak Gobind Singh

Bhagauti Di Var Chandi di var Durga ki var

In Punjab of the old days it was common for one son to become a Sikh. He was the sacrifice for protection of Hinduism. So it was common to find Sikhs in almost all the Hindu families.

But Sikhs do not accept any of this now. The official version is denial of all this. The reasons are many. Historical and Political. The British have played a major role in this.

There is no way you can turn the clock back.

Let us leave it at that.
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi folks,
i was in punjab more than 9 years....i lived in batinda/patiala/jullundar/ludhiana....perhaps i know punjab more than tamil nadu...

i visited amritsar/ talwandi saahib the famous gurudwaras....even i can speak punjabi too....in sikh history...especially sri gurugovind

singh ji ..the last guru born in patna bihar...and became martyr in nanded maharastra......innitially they were part of hindus...still

some beleive....i saw many sardars in tirupati temple....a lot devotees of sri vaishnaodevi in jammu are sikhs....some says to protect

hindus ....they fought against muslim rulers....after 1984....after blue star operation in amritsar harminder saahib gurudwara....the

history of sikhs changed....they say they are reformist/ and casteless society... they have lot of caste system...like jatt sikh is most

powerful caste in sikhs....there different gurudraras for different sub castes in sikhism.... now they feel they are different religion...

infact sikhism is panth........a different path... to acheive wahe guru.....sat sri akaal....

regards
tbs
 

AnanthaNarayanan

Active member
sikhism is a blend of hindusim and islam. you can see many iqbal and malik singhs. on of my friend told that sikhism is the most updated religion in the world with out any flaws and defects. he was quoting to me many europian writers. btw they may getting a soft corner from the both religions ( pak an exceptional)may be they left becoz of brahmins. if so we can blame brahmins! north or south?
 
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Iyyarooraan

Well-known member
It is only a wayward thinking of mind. Hinduism is the mother of all religions and this country is the craddle for all religions including chriustianity and Islam and what not. At best they can be called sub-sects ordained by some enlightened souls who all of course failed the see the catastrophe. In a way religiousity is another name for narrow-minded thinking. Why Sikhism? Ramanuja Acharya, Maadhva Acharya, Swaminarayanas, (and there are host of others) are only creating divisions unwittingly like our governments doing - form a committee to create more problems and sub-committees to confound the problems. It will go on as long as we do not realize.
 
R

R. Ramanujan

Guest
No they don't celebrate holi and diwali, dushera, pongal.
But exception r always there.
Like u noted punjabi hindus in gurudwara there might be some sikhs celebrating diwali though not all celebrate. esp amrithdhari will never.
In Sikhism, sikh gurus have praised trinity but young sikhs negate this.
Infact recently akal takth issued a sikh calender which includes hindu festivals also(something like that)(BBC - Religions - Sikhism: The Sikh Calendar)
the pure sikhs rejected this.
yes some sikhs practice castism. and indulge in honour killings and female foeticide. but sikhs say that they are isolated by true sikhs.

those who celebrate diwali may be mona sikhs, or they might have gone for inter marriages.
In present times they want to show themselves as separate from hinduism.

plus they are anxious to get separate marriage act anand act for them. till now they are regestering their marriages in hindu marriage act.
As far as names are concerned they r not that fussy abt names. some sikhs esp mona when come out of punjab get sanskrit names like rahul singh, ankit gill.

recently akal takth called on all sikhs with singh surnames to wear pagri to differentiate b/w hindus who have same castes. They also objected to sikhs in bollywood being portrayed with pagri but no beard.
and when dera chief who is a hindu leader wore guru nanak dress their anger erupted for everyone to c.
all they want hindus is that they should leave them alone.
i forgot another point. when it comes to my mind i will tell.

http://worldsikhnews.com/27 January 2010/RSS wants Sikhs to make changes in Guru Granth Sahib.htm
 
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pannvalan

Well-known member
In many outward looks (except for the turban) and some family practices, Sikhs follow Muslims. This is because of influence of Kabirdas' teachings.

But, they owe allegiance to the average Indian Psyche and are staunch loyalists of Bharath Matha. Most of the Sikhs have their first name similar to Hindus and I have found many Sikhs visiting Hindu temples also. They are more comfortable in the company of Hindus, than Muslims.

Even after the post-Oct.1984 carnage, they love Hindus, do not hate them.
 
R

R. Ramanujan

Guest
after 1984 carnage they understood that they need to be loyal to country not hindu community. They decided not to tolerate jokes on their community.
Those sikhs who visit hindu temples are very few/miniscule.
Even though they don't openly say this but they don't believe in Bharat mata since its against basic tenets in their religion which rejects idol worshipping.
But their religion teaches patriotism and valor. Hardly u c anyone singing vande mataram.

In pakistan hindus esp sindhis convert to sikhism to escape procecution by pak govt.
sikhs always prefer urdu rather than hindi. even though they rarely speak in hindi nowadays but they always speak in hindustani not pure hindi.

But having said that there r always exceptions.
 
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To All: Sikh is a short name, earleir they were called DEV only(Guru nanak dev,guru Arujun dev etc) but their 10 th Guru Govind(Gobind) told to called as Singh means the LION. Guru govind singh praised lord Vishnu by 10.000, names, Once they are hindus and 9th guru TakbahdurjiSagrifices his life by giving his head for the sake of kasmiry pandits. Only Indra Gandhis foolish plays made the sikhs mind that they are not with inthe fold of hindu. As said by sri TBS is correct, even I am following the path with my master is a Sikh and every day singing shabads. The Guru granth shakib is addapeted all kind of poems,from Kabir,Meera,Farid,Tulsi das etc., s.r.k.
 
To RRji, the sindhies are landless people and only making money mined and the want some guru for them so they follow Sikh guru ,RssB guru, Rukani guru and so on. s.r.k.
 
R

R. Ramanujan

Guest
Sikh eat beef. Their religion only prohibits eating of slaughtered meat as is done by muslims during bakri id.(with due respect to muslims)
pls clear ur misconceptions.

one more very imp thing is that it preaches equality among men and women. im sure that u must have heard sikh names like gurdeep singh and gurdeep kaur. so boy is singh and girl is kaur.
Guide to a Sikh.

here i quote another para from a website

Truth 4: Sikhism is a unique faith and is not derived from Hinduism. Sikhism challenges and rejects many precepts of the Hindu religion. It is only due to a shared geographic culture that some ideas or methods may be similar. As Sikhism's history began in Punjab, India, there are some culture similarities to the Sikh people and the Hindu people. The language is similar, the dress is similar, and the living style is similar. Since Hindus make up 83% of the Indian population, Hinduism is often mistaken as a culture and ethnic identity and not a religion. However, there is another 17% of the Indian population that deeply resents being called Hindu and having their own identity overlooked. Sikhs have a unique physical identity with their 5 articles of faith, the 5 Ks. Spiritually, the concepts of the caste system, rituals, and other main components of Hinduism have been rejected by Sikhism.


http://www.sikhcoalition.org/CommonMisc3.asp#truth4
 
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gagang2

New member
My dear friend,

Due to lack of knowledge and wrong approach to seek answer, misunderstanding is often formed and became the main cause of any depute. I noticed the word used by you that why Sikhs are anti-Hindu and why they claim to be different from Hindu Religion.

Punjab is the land where Rig Ved was written and originated. Mata Sita lived in Amritsar when Lord Ram left her alone. Lov and Kush both sons of Lord Ram ruled Punjab and later their generations. Lahore city is named after Lov. Guru Nanak was born in Bedi family. That chain belong to Kush family(younger son of Lord Ram). Bedi are called, those who have very sound knowledge of Hindu Vedas and belong to Kush chain. Sodhi are called those who belong to Lov chain (Elder son of Lord Ram). Guru Nanak was born in Bedi family. Our Fourth Guru to Ten Guru were born in Sodhi Family. Aryan Blood is in our vein. PrithiviRaj Chouhan and POURAS are still our pride and heroes.

Our ancestors were Hindus But we are Not. We are now Sikh.
When anybody bears and dies is my family, we report to our ancestral pandit in Haridwar to make the entry in the Pothi.

When we say:
We are Sikhs not Hindus. We do not want to tease anybody and have no intentions to hurt the feelings of anybody.

There is a very popular religious group in Pakistan known as Ahmadiyya Islam religious group which stills claims Sikhs are Muslims as Baba Nanak was a muslim. Baba Nanak was born in Hindu family but converted into Islam. They say Baba Nanak had spent Six years in Baghdad City and he used to read Namaz and studied Quran. Baba Nanak had very good relations with Muslim pirs than Hindu Sants. Despite born in Hindu family, he never followed Hindu religious practice. Neither he did Idol worship nor wore Tilak nor wore Janeu etc. Sikhs and Muslims both believe, God is formless but Hindu believe God is with form etc.

Sikhs say, it is 100% true that Baba Nanak went to Mecca, read Namaz, and studied Quran but Nanak was neither Hindu nor Muslim. Sikhs believe in Khuda and Lord Ram but we are neither Hindu nor Muslim. Nanak said “God is one which is formless and the true way to attain Him is to worship Him. All Human Beings are equal. Women are equal to men in all respects. Baba Nanak never believed in any religion, caste, ritual and religious practice. He himself said “There is No Hindu or No Mussalman so whose path shall I follow? I shall follow the path of God’s because God is neither Hindu nor Mussalman”. By thinking good and doing good, one can obtain him with pure heart. Furthermore, he said everyone has direct access to God WITHOUT ANY MEDIATOR AND RITUAL”.


Anyone who has got the chance to study the work (Dhur Ki Bani) of Baba Nanak,
He/she proudly says Nanak should not be considered Hindu or Muslim or Sikh.

Nanak’s teachings were not confined to any religion and custom. In fact, there is no place of any rituals in Sikhi.

Please study the work of Guru Nanak that
Why did he give up Tilak & Janeu?
Why did he give up Idol worship?
Why did he give up all the rituals?
Believe me you would say that Nanak’s thinking is really boundless.

And you would yourself say:

NANAK IS THE KING OF KING FAKIRS AND SANTS,
HINDUS CALL HIM GURU WITH LOVE,
AND MUSLIMS CALL HIM FAKIR WITH RESPECT.

Second Answer:

Why Sikhs are anti-Hindu?

I think your mind is filled with hate because of misleading information.
Why Sikhs would do so?

Let us have a look at the Hindu-Sikh history:

One day, a delegation of Kashmere Hindu Pandit visited Guru Tegh Bahadur(Ninth light of Guru Nanak) regarding seeking help to protect Hindu religion from Aurangzab-Mughal Emperor as Aurangzab wanted to convert Hindustan into Islam. The Father of Ninth Sikh Guru (Sixth light of Guru Nanak) had defeated Shahjahan- Mughal Emperor four times in a battle. Guru Tegh Bahadur suggested “War is not the solution to this problem. Someone (a Hindu Nobel soul) has to sacrifice his life to protect Hindu Religion.” On the request of Kashmere Pandits, Guru Tegh Bahadur(Ninth light of Guru Nanak) had agreed to sacrifice his life. The message was conveyed by Kashmere Pandits to the high officers of Aurangzab that If Guru Tegh Bahadur would accept Islam, the whole hindus would voluntarily accept Islam. On the contrary, If Aurangzab failed to do so, He had to put his movement an end permanently. Guru Tegh Bahadur along with three Sikhs scarified their lives at Delhi and refused to accept Islam. Guru and Sikhs neither believe in Idol Worship nor wear janeu nor wear tilak but they fought against injustice happening with Hindus.

Now, Tell me why Sikhs would think ill of Hindus.

Sikh can be neither Hindu nor Mussalman. He wants to be identified as a follower of Guru Nanak who had no religion and no caste. I am telling you the truth.
Hindu still worships Baba Nanak as Guru e.g. SANDHI HINDU.

Regards,
Sardar Narender Singh Rawalpindi
Delhi-India

Note: I am not a religious person. I may commit some mistakes. Please forgive me.
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri Sardar Narender Singh Rawalpindi Ji,

We welcome you sir, to this site. I really appreciate the time you have taken to explain your religion. We are all the beneficiaries of your wisdom and erudition.

Regards,
KRS
 
M

Meerkat

Guest
Your views are certainly enlightening friend. Its great feeling to have a Punjabi among us.
Must admit I know only some limited things about Sikhism. I tried my hand at Gurmukh script but its too difficult, but I won't give up. But sir how many young punjabis esp sikhs share your viewpoints is certainly debatable anyhow---
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
 
M

Meerkat

Guest
Ahemadiyas are considered a minority by Sunni dominated pakistani govt. They are prosecuted time and again.
Sir with due respect I never said that sikhs were anti hindu, but in recent times they show their religion as a separate one from hinduism. Infact when Gadkari said that Guru Granth sahib be amended, their was anger among sikhs. They don't like sikhism to be called sub sect of hinduism or purest form of hinduism(since it was born minus the evil practices in hinduism). They don't like people to say that sikhism is born from islam and hinduism.
 

sangom

Well-known member
IMO, Sikhs have done yeomen service to this country (undivided India as well). I read somewhere that there was a time when one son from every hindu family was given to the Sikh panth and hence you could find a hindu brother of a Sikh. In fact we had a senior officer (clean shaven Hindu) who had a Sikh brother.

But, of late there have been attempts to claim separate status by different groups. The attempt by Ramakrishna Mission in this direction comes to my mind. Did they not claim that they were different from Hindu?
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
In the year 1955 or so GOVERNMENT OF INDIA appointed 'STATES REORGANISATION COMMISSION'. All political parties vied with each other to get more areas for each Language Group.In PUNJAB AKALIS wanted that all
residing in erstwhile Punjab should declare "PUNJABI' as their mother tongue.This was resisted by HINDUS and ALL Hindus declared "HINDI" as their mother tongue though all hindus were also speaking Punjabi. This was not liked by Akalis and this was also a cause for misunderstanding between 'Sikhs' and 'Hindus'.
It was mentioned in post no 18 that Hindus believe in IDOL WORSHIP. Hindu religion does not believe only in IDOL WORSHIP. ARYA SAMAJ DO NOT FOLLOW "IDOL WORSHIP".I would request my SIKH FRIEND TO VISIT
"CHIDAMBARAM TEMPLE" IN SOUTH INDIA AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IS "CHIDAMBARA RAHASYAM" FROM LEARNED SCHOLARS.
AS regards the attempt by RAMAKRISHNA MISSION to claim separate status as commented by Mr.SANGOM, it may be mentioned that CPI(M) party when they came to power in WEST BENGAL they tried to take over all Educational
Instituitions run by RKM under Government control and this made RKM to go to court to declare them as a separate group.
 
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M

Meerkat

Guest
Ramakrishna Mission is encouraging their own cult. I went to Madurai. They organise separate prayers for Ramakrishna Paramhans. They make us idol worship him.
I asked them if they were related to Vivekananda Ashram in Kolkata, they told they are separate being, nothing related to the kolkata guys.

Pls go to Madurai(I think the stop is near Iyer Bunglow) and see for yourself.
 
M

Meerkat

Guest
And one more thing many of Punjabi hindus are forced to learn punjabi gurmukh to secure Govt. Jobs.
Otherwise they were not interested previously.(coz they think that its language of sikhs)
Haryana+Himanchal Pradesh+Punjab+Delhi=previous Punjab.
It was partitioned only because of religion and Language.

Chandigarh(common capital of punjab and haryana) is still a bone of contention between Punjab and Haryana. That's why its a union territory. They have a common high court named Punjab and Haryana high court.
 
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