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Poonal

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Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
The Brahmins according to the Vedas were expected to wear a upper garment running from left to right. This was called Yajnopaveedam. The threads represent this.

Yesterday when we are discussing women and Yajnopaveedam a sloka was quoted by one of the professors in Vedic science in support of this. There was general agreement.

Even today we find the Namboothiris and Bengali Brahmins wearing an upper garment running from left to right while performing rituals.
 

vijisesh

Active member
Yes, the poonal is definitely a symbolic representation of the upper garment !
As it lies with you , u also remember of ur duties , each time u change your dress and treat it with sanctity !
But then there's a question about Women in our caste ?
Why they cannot say the gayathri japam ? or can they ?
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
Lopamudra (wife of Agasthya) was one of the Rishis of Rig-Veda. Gargeyi was one of the main participants in the debate which Yajnawalkya had in the sabha.

There was no ban on women reciting Vedas in the Vedic times. They also underwent Upanayanam and wore Yajnopaveedam.

But later women stopped going through the Upanayana ceremiony. Since only a person who has gone through the Upanayana ceremony could recite the Vedas, they stopped reciting the Vedas.

In Pune, Maharashtra there are many women who have gone through the ceremony, learned the Vedas and are practicing as Purohits. They are more popular then the men Purohits.

The initiation of Gayatri Mantra is Upanayanam. Since they are not initiated they can not recite. If they are initiated they can recite the Gayatri and Vedas.

There is no prohibition in the Vedas.

The Smiriti texts may say differently.
 

vijisesh

Active member
Yes, that's very good to hear!
Why should women be deprived of something , which can earn good karma points ! But they already earn too many points by giving birth to a child , 10 months of pains -don't they ?
Ok the next question will be ..
U have mentioned that VEDAS had not be written down for a long time , it has only been recited and passed over the years ! Being in sanskrit , how could a Tamil brahmin get the words and the pronunciation right !
I believe that still in TN , we have sastrigals who do not know sanskrit but chalk down the slokas in Tamil , right ?
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
They teach by rote in Veda Pathasalas. You do not have to know the language for that.

The pronunciation of Tamil Brahmins is one of the best in India. Of course the question of whose pronunciation is best can never be decided. I know that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had started a VedicVision channel for 24 hours Vedic chanting and there were a number of Tamil Brahmins involved in that venture.

There is an ongoing attempt to revive the Sanskrit language. My wife speaks Sanskrit fluently and she chats with her friends on the phone in Sanskrit. They have debates (real Patti mantram stuff) in Sanskrit.

BTW my wife recites the Vedas and performs the daily Puja and Homa lasting for hours on end. I am only an unpaid Edupidi all.
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Well-known member
Poonool

Once Sathguru Sri Gnananandagiri swamigal said : " Nan noolaik karpadu
nalluthu; athaninum chirandadu thannool; atharkaka poonum nool poonool "
The meaning is- it is good to study the scriptures. It is even better to do
Atma vicharam ( self-enquiry ). As a first step to get initiated to
BrahmaVidya, poonool is worn .
 

vijisesh

Active member
Exactly , every great person says this !

You have the solution to all your problems, within yourself !

You are the creator of your own moods - happiness , sadness , laughter ( which is in great demand , these days - all u have to do is watch Asathapovathu yaaru in sun Tv) , anger ( to control anger , do under water meditation - not the easy way of filling a glass of water and placing it on ur head!), emotions , so to say !

In fact theories even go up to the extent of saying that " Even the sickness that u get " is because of the Door's that u open - the mental doors that u've kept open !
I am planning to automate all body systems , creating a remote control to have perfect control on knowing when and at what time , the doors should open , the mental doors , I mean !
 
Radhey Krishnaa
Namaskaram To Everybody
A Explanation Here Once I Read In A Old Book For Why Ladies Are Controlled In Chanting Vedic Mantras.
Vedic Mantras Like Gayathri Mantras, Pranava Manthra , Sukthams Etc, Contains Powerful Vibrations Than Others Which Cant Be Tolerate By Them .
That Vibrations Had The Power Of Damaging The Utres By Reducing The Strength And Create Heavy Flow During Periods Which Cause Them To Became Weak .
So It Is Provided That More Powerful But Less Vibrating Mantras Like Lalitha Sahasranaamam, Lalitha Trishathi, Parts Of Devi Mahathmiyam And The Use Of Sri Is Recommended Against The Pranava Mantra Om.

IN THE SAME TIME , ONCE WE START THE GAYATHRI MANTRA JAPA IT MUST CONTINUE TILL THE END OF OUR LIFE WITHOUT BREAK . IT CANNOT BE STOPPED EVEN DURING THE AASOUSA AND SUDHAGA (THEETU) TIMES.
THE PERIODS OF LADIES DOES NOT COMES UNDER THESE TWO CATEGORIES. DURING THAT TIMES THEY CANT CHANT THE MANTRA. SO WOMEN WERE CONTROLLED FROM CHANTING SOME MANTRAS

This May Have Different Opinions. Comments Are Welcomed.
Radheykrishnaa
Vittal Vittal
Loga Samasthaa Sugino Bhavanthu
 
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Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
This was my earlier post regarding this.

Lopamudra (wife of Agasthya) was one of the Rishis of Rig-Veda. Gargeyi was one of the main participants in the debate which Yajnawalkya had in the sabha.

There was no ban on women reciting Vedas in the Vedic times. They also underwent Upanayanam and wore Yajnopaveedam.

But later women stopped going through the Upanayana ceremiony. Since only a person who has gone through the Upanayana ceremony could recite the Vedas, they stopped reciting the Vedas.

In Pune, Maharashtra there are many women who have gone through the ceremony, learned the Vedas and are practicing as Purohits. They are more popular then the men Purohits.

The initiation of Gayatri Mantra is Upanayanam. Since they are not initiated they can not recite. If they are initiated they can recite the Gayatri and Vedas.

There is no prohibition in the Vedas.

The Smiriti texts may say differently.

There are two ways of looking at any laws, guidelines, instructions etc.

1. What is not specifically prohibited is allowed.

2. What is not specifically allowed is prohibited.

The legal profession earns its living arguing about this.

The argument for women reciting Vedas is

1. It is not specifically prohibited in the Vedas. So it is allowed. The example of Lopamudra and other women Rishis.

2. When Shruti (Vedas) and Smiriti (Dharma Sasthras) are in conflict Shruti shall prevail.

Conclusion: Women can recite Vedas.

I cannot put Q.E.D here and finish off because there are many conflicting opinions.

We can argue till the cows come home. But there will be no universal agreement.

I remember the time when one of the Acharyas allowed women to recite Soundharya Lahari. The traditional view as per the Sasthra is that you can not recite Soundharya Lahari without proper initiation. Any one can recite it. But he/she should have had the initiation which alone gives the Adhikara.

நச்சிநார்கினியன்
 
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N.R.Ranganathan

Well-known member
Ponool

We are required to do puja sitting in a direction facing east.

The Devas ( Gods ) are supposed to be in the northern direction. When we do puja to the Gods, our left shoulder faces north and therefore the ponool
must be worn from left to right resting on the left shoulder. This is called
'yagyopaveetham'.
Our Pithrus are supposed to be in the southern direction. When we sit facing
east, our right shoulder faces the southern direction and therefore our ponool
must be worn from right to left resting on the right shoulder when we do
puja to our Pithrus. This is called ' praacheenaveetham'.
When we are doing neither, the poonool must be worn as a maalai or like a
garland. This is known as 'niveetham'.
But, in practice, we wear our poonool from left to right, the poonool resting
on the left shoulder. All the learned people agree that we must wear it as a
mala only in normal times.
Sanyaasis who have renounced all the karmas do not require poonool as
per Brihadaranyaka upanishad.
 

vijisesh

Active member
During each Avani avittam ,
when the POONAL is replaced , it used to have the importance as the ' Start TIME for commencement of study of vedas ' during the year !
Is it true ?
Why do we replace poonal's each year !, even now when we don;t study vedas ?
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
The Upa karma is a ceremony to be conducted for restarting recitation of Vedas. The Vedic recitation got disrupted due to natural calamities and migration.

It does not have any Sasthric significance now. That is why this ritual is non existent in other parts of India. Many of the Brahmins in other parts of India believe that they should wear the Yajnopaveedham only while conducting rituals. They do not wear it all the time.

But this is one of the long standing traditions of the Tamil Brahmins. It was the occasion when the entire community came together. It was conducted in a temple. After the function the Brahmins went home with Nagaswaram and Thavil preceding them. We used to have a tradition of kalla poonal for the boys who have not yet undergone the Upanayanam ceremony. I remember my little sister jumping up and down wanting one.

This seems to be disappearing in the villages. Long time back I went to my village for this and found that very few people came to the temple. Most of them did it at home.

This is the biggest community function of Tamil Brahmins living outside Tamil Nadu. It is about the only function when they all come together. Even people who do not wear poonal regularly and who say etc. etc. when the priest asks them to repeat the Mantras, attend this function. This is the opportunity for getting free advice on the latest share issue from a Citibank V.P and free medical advice from a leading surgeon. Everyone enjoys it though hardly a few repeat the mantras.


This is our sampradhaya.
 
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N.R.Ranganathan

Well-known member
Poonool

Mr.Vijisesh,

You are right. The course consists of two terms,the first beginning from the
month of Sraavan extending upto Pushya month ( about 5 months ) and the
second covers the balance 7 months.

During the first term, the Vedas are taught - Samhitas, Brahmanaas,
Aranyakas and Upanishads. The beginning of this study is called upakramanam. This term ends with visarjana karma.

In the second term, the Vedangas are taught, like siksha, vyakarna, chandas,nruktham, jyothisham and kalpam.

Next year, the cycle restarts with upakramanam.

This is a 12 year course normally. But, some vidyarthis undertake further
studies upto 18 or even 24 years.

Even the grahasthas are expected to continue the studies since they are
expected to teach other students -called adhyaapanam.

Preservation of Vedas is our duty. It is a treasure-house of
knowledge. Furthermore, we have some parts of Sandhya mantras in
every religious function and it is therefore necessary to have poonool.
 
The sacred thread consists of three strands, joined by a knot known as Brahmagranthi or the knot of Brahma. The three strands symbolise the Hindu trinity - Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma. There are various interpretations of the three strands to represent many of the other triads like Mahasarasvati, Mahalakshmi and Mahakali. Or the three qualities known as sattva, rajas and tamas; past, present and the future; the three states - wakefulness, dream and deep sleep. Some even say that it represents the three dimensions known as heaven (swarga), earth (martyaloka) and nether regions (patala).
But the most important meaning of the three strands is ida, pingala and susumna nadi, through which the kundalini energy manifests as prana and consciousness, says Sadguru Sant Keshavadas. Yajno-pavita means ‘thread of sacrifice.’ That is so called because it symbolises the sacrifice of ego, says Sadguru Sant Keshavadas.
The Manusmrti specifies the following ages for the initiation ceremony to take place.
In the eighth year after conception, one should perform the initiation (Upanayana ceremonies of sacred thread) of a Brahmana, in the eleventh year after conception (that) of a Kshatriya, but in the twelfth year that of a Vaisya. II.36
The sacred thread is a passport to obtain education. It is a prerequisite for education and also for marriage. For without it no man can dream of getting a bride for him. It was considered important because a person with Yajnopavita must have undergone all the oaths associated with wearing it and should have led a celibate life and should have completed a major portion of his education. Brahmachari or the bachelor (also, a learner) wears a single sacred thread. The householder or the married person wears two. A person who is married and has lost one or both of his parents wears three.
There are different methods of wearing the Sacred Thread at different occasions. While performing an auspicious ceremony one should be Upaviti, that is, the Sacred Thread should hang from his left shoulder. At the performance of some inauspicious ceremony one should be Prachnaviti, that is, the Sacred Thread should hang from the right shoulder; and at times he is called Niviti when the Sacred Thread is worn round the neck like a garland.


now i thing you got a clear idea.
 
The sacred thread consists of three strands, joined by a knot known as Brahmagranthi or the knot of Brahma. The three strands symbolise the Hindu trinity - Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma. There are various interpretations of the three strands to represent many of the other triads like Mahasarasvati, Mahalakshmi and Mahakali. Or the three qualities known as sattva, rajas and tamas; past, present and the future; the three states - wakefulness, dream and deep sleep. Some even say that it represents the three dimensions known as heaven (swarga), earth (martyaloka) and nether regions (patala).
But the most important meaning of the three strands is ida, pingala and susumna nadi, through which the kundalini energy manifests as prana and consciousness, says Sadguru Sant Keshavadas. Yajno-pavita means ‘thread of sacrifice.’ That is so called because it symbolises the sacrifice of ego, says Sadguru Sant Keshavadas.
The Manusmrti specifies the following ages for the initiation ceremony to take place.
In the eighth year after conception, one should perform the initiation (Upanayana ceremonies of sacred thread) of a Brahmana, in the eleventh year after conception (that) of a Kshatriya, but in the twelfth year that of a Vaisya. II.36
The sacred thread is a passport to obtain education. It is a prerequisite for education and also for marriage. For without it no man can dream of getting a bride for him. It was considered important because a person with Yajnopavita must have undergone all the oaths associated with wearing it and should have led a celibate life and should have completed a major portion of his education. Brahmachari or the bachelor (also, a learner) wears a single sacred thread. The householder or the married person wears two. A person who is married and has lost one or both of his parents wears three.
There are different methods of wearing the Sacred Thread at different occasions. While performing an auspicious ceremony one should be Upaviti, that is, the Sacred Thread should hang from his left shoulder. At the performance of some inauspicious ceremony one should be Prachnaviti, that is, the Sacred Thread should hang from the right shoulder; and at times he is called Niviti when the Sacred Thread is worn round the neck like a garland.
 
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