Oh! America!!

[Ramacchandran]

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தந்தை என தெரியாமல் திருமண வாழ்க்கை: அமெரிக்க பெண்ணை அதிர செய்த ரகசியம்! - Yahoo!
[h=1]தந்தை என தெரியாமல் திருமண வாழ்க்கை: அமெரிக்க பெண்ணை அதிர செய்த ரகசியம்![/h]

 

[prasad1]

Translation please.

 

[biswa]

I thought it should just be O Canada! Really why this obsession with America?

 

[Ramacchandran]

Mr.Prasad

An American lady married her own father and lived for a long time!

 

[renuka]

Mr.Prasad

An American lady married her own father and lived for a long time!

She did not know it was her own father.

I have heard a similar story once that a chinese girl child was given away for adoption during the Japanese Occupation in Malaysia.

When she grew up she fell in love with man and married him.

When they were old..only then somehow they found out that they were actually brother and sister.
They were totally shocked and the man became a Buddhist Monk and she became a Buddhist Nun.

I feel since in these cases the initial attraction must have been the blood bond but since they were not aware that they were related loved developed and they got married.

This situation can happen anywhere cos many children are given up for adoption and they have no idea who they might end up marrying too.

Even in my Sanskrit book I was reading some short story from Orissa covered the same topic.
A man divorced his wife and married a fellow office mate.

The first wife had a daughter and she moved far away from her husband and brought up the daughter all on her own.

Then when the daughter grew up she fell in love with a college mate who was a year younger to her.

Then when she brought him home to meet her mother on further enquiry it was revealed that it was her half brother(father's second wives son).

 

[renuka]

Translation please.

I found this online..same story.

Valerie Spruill: Woman who unknowingly married her father speaks out about their lives | Mail Online


'We had a good life... but truth almost destroyed me': Woman who unknowingly married her FATHER speaks out on their lives

• Valerie Spruill, 60, from Doylestown, Ohio, found out through a DNA test
• The confusion began as she was looked after by her grandparents from three-months-old
• Believes her husband could have known the truth but feared telling her
• Said husband was good provider and caring toward her three children from a previous marriage
  

By DAILY MAIL REPORTERS
PUBLISHED: 17:49 GMT, 21 September 2012 | UPDATED: 20:44 GMT, 23 September 2012

• Comments (0)
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The woman who unknowingly married her father today said: 'We had a good life', but that the horror of finding out the truth nearly destroyed her.
Valerie Spruill, who lives in Doylestown, Ohio, first told her story earlier this month to the Akron Beacon Journal, and today spoke with CNN about her story.
She said that she wasn’t sure if her late husband Percy Spruill even knew he was her father, saying: ‘That conversation didn’t come up.’

Secret: Valerie Spruill, 60, from Ohio, discovered her husband was in fact her father after he died

A DNA test using hair taken from one of Mr Spruill’s hairbrushes confirmed that the two were father and daughter.
In her interview with CNN, Mrs Spruill said that the only way to heal from the shocking news was to speak about her pain. ‘Pain and stress will kill,’ she said, ‘and I had to release my stress.’
After she and Mr Spruill met in Akron and moved to the nearby working-class town of Doylestown, she said she was happy. ‘He was a good provider,’ she said, and 'we had a good life'. She said he was accepting to her three children from her first marriage.
She worked at the Goodyear plant in the accounting department for 34 years.

However, after the truth came out following Mr Spruill’s death, the mother and grandmother said she had a crisis of faith. ‘It’s devastating. It can destroy you. It nearly did,’ she told CNN.



At age 60, Mrs Spruill’s grandparents are long dead, as are many of her husband’s relatives that could have provided valuable information to her.
Despite all of the hardship, Mrs Spruill has kept a remarkably strong spirit, something she credits to her faith in God. ‘I have no regrets in my life at all,’ she said.

Spruill, who has three children and eight grandchildren, is now telling her story in an attempt to find her other siblings from her father.



'It needs to be told, because children need to know where they come from,' she told the Akron Beacon Journal earlier this month. 'And I know it hurts, because I have been devastated by this.'

Better times: She said that her husband, who worked as a truck driver, provided she and her children from a previous marriage with a good life

The confusion began because she was looked after by her grandparents from 3-months-old.
Her mother Christine was one the 'night ladies' - as she called them - who testified in the 1980 trial of Summit County Probate Judge James Barbuto, who was eventually convicted of sex charges.

Valerie's mother and father got together when he was just 15 and the number of children they had is unclear, but she is aware of six brothers.


She was cared for by her grandparents and her mother visited, although Valerie thought she was a family friend.

Aged nine, she was devastated when she found out that Christine - who died in 1984 - had been her mother. It also meant the man she thought was her father was in fact her grandfather.

'This story needs to be told because children need to know where they come from. And I know it hurts, because I have been devastated by this.'
Valerie Spruill


But she was not told who her real father was and Valerie later met and married Percy.

Percy, who was born in Mississippi, worked in Akron as a truck driver and a parking-lot attendant.

He died in 1998 after a brief illness at the age of 60, but for years, she had heard bizarre rumours about their relationship.

She finally learned the truth about her marriage from an uncle after Percy died, and confirmed the relationship with a DNA test after finding his hairs on a brush in their room.

She does not know for certain that he was aware he had married his daughter, but she said she strongly believes he did know but was simply afraid to tell her.
Since his death, Valerie, who is retired, has been seeing a therapist to help her deal with the horrifying revelation.
Valerie has fought through serious health problems, including a lengthy hospital stay, which she believes were only brought on by the stress of discovering the traumatic family secret
She is hoping her story may help her reach additional siblings she didn’t know existed.

'My biggest goal is to find them and let ’em know that [their mother] loved them, no matter what,' she said. 'And [to say], 'Thank God she gave you away like she did me, so you could have a beautiful life.'

 

[manoharkumar]

Thats why we have this system of seeing the horoscope and and other matches like gothram etc.. What ever one may say our Indian culture and the way the older generation had thought about and led their lives are uncomaprable. I am proud to be a son of this great karma bhoomi.. Cheers.

Incest is digust!!

 

[S.Ramanathan]

Dear Manohar kumar sir, In Matching horoscopes also there is a problem. First it should be a correct horoscope then the person who does the matching should have real knowledge in the subject. In my family itslelf I have one example. My younger brother got married after matching horoscope. Neither the astrologer of the girl or the astrologer who has matched my brother's horoscope has predicted that they live together only for a short time. My brother died at the age of 45. Hence there is no guarantee that those who got married after matching horoscopes are living very good and prosper. Ultimately the theory of Karma only works.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Manohar kumar sir, In Matching horoscopes also there is a problem. First it should be a correct horoscope then the person who does the matching should have real knowledge in the subject. In my family itslelf I have one example. My younger brother got married after matching horoscope. Neither the astrologer of the girl or the astrologer who has matched my brother's horoscope has predicted that they live together only for a short time. My brother died at the age of 45. Hence there is no guarantee that those who got married after matching horoscopes are living very good and prosper. Ultimately the theory of Karma only works.

Shri Ramachandran,

Let me tell you some thing that you may not be aware of..

An expert astrologer can find that the girl is destined to be married and become a widow at her particular age. He can also find that the guy has the destiney of getting married, live a married life and die at certain age.

When he is approached with both the horoscopes, he can also find that, their living together as husband and wife is well supported BUT with each of their own destiney of attaining widowhood and dieing respectively.

When an expert astrologer can see that the man is fated to get married and die at an young age, he certainly would not suggest fixing his marriage with a girl who is not destined to attain widow hood so early.


Similarly when he can see that the girl would attain widowhood at an young/middle age, as per her horoscope, he certainly would not suggest fixing her marriage with a guy who has long life and is not destined to die at such an age.

And when such horoscope is correctly matched, knowing the strong indications in the horoscope, no astrologer would tell in advance that their marriege would survive for a short period and would end due to death of one of the partners.

Astrologers are also human and may be parents too and as any other parents of boys and girls, commonly all wish that a boy or a girl should get married, no matter what the destiney the future holds. They don't wish their sons or daughters to die being single ever. All they are determined is, as long as couples are alive, they should have a very loving and cordial relationship.

There are many such embarassments and disturbances that astrologers really deal with in their profession, almost every day in and day out.

 

[renuka]

If we go through the story we would realize how much this lady went through and she was also in a state of shock when she found out.

No race condones incest in any form..in the case above the lady did NOT KNOW that she had married her father.

Sorry to say this but I have heard people from other states of India and some other races comment that some communities in India practice Incest by marrying their mother's brother and cousins.

So it is really hard to comment cos cultures might differ but in this ladies case it was highly unfortunate for her and please read that how she went through stress and trauma too.

No race in this world goes around marrying their fathers knowingly.

I feel we should sympathize with this poor lady.

read what she wrote.

She wrote this:

Despite all of the hardship, Mrs Spruill has kept a remarkably strong spirit, something she credits to her faith in God. ‘I have no regrets in my life at all,’ she said.

 

[S.Ramanathan]

In fact I have seen people who have got married without bothering about matching of horoscopes are living well rather than those who married after matching of horoscopes. Now a days finding a good astrologer itself is very difficult.

 

[renuka]

In fact I have seen people who have got married without bothering about matching of horoscopes are living well rather than those who married after matching of horoscopes. Now a days finding a good astrologer itself is very difficult.

There is something called Karma.
Many people panic when things do not work out too great.
We should not expect anything to be too great in life.

Everyone will then blame horoscope saying how can a perfect match lead to an unhappy marriage in years to come.

We have to remember that a perfect horoscope match when we marry the person it does not mean that life will be a bed of roses.

Some marriages have lost the emotional connection but they still stay on for the sake of children.

We have to remember that each one of us are here to work out our Karma.

Our spouses are also our Karmic partners destined to be together to work out karmic debts too.

Our spouse was meant to be with us for a purpose...no one just marries someone out of the blues.

It's destiny.

So when we do not see things working out the way we want..just try to think that this is how God wanted us to face life's up and down and if we pass this Karmic test we go on to a higher scale in our next life.

So sometimes thank our partners when they are not too nice to us cos they are meant to be our karmic helper.

If we could start thinking this way..to a certain extent problems can be solved.


So do not worry too much too..not all perfect marriages are healthy for spiritual advancement.

 

[mkrishna100]

Valerie Spruill: Woman who unknowingly married her father speaks out about their lives

When Internet first came ( this was nearly 15 years back ) I read an instance where a father was using online forum to date women and he deliberately lowered his age to show himself younger and his teenage daughter who was using the same online forum to date men and she had deliberately hiked her age to prove that she is bit older women and finally they were dating and sending emails online ( at that time there was no skype or webcam ) without knowing each other and then they decided to meet each other at a restaurant and when they met they were shocked to see each other .

 

[mkrishna100]

Our spouses are also our Karmic partners destined to be together to work out karmic debts too.

It is not just spouses , but even parents , brothers ,sisters , friends , relatives , Office Bosses , the place where we live etc have a deep karmic connection and sometimes some of the things closest to us might not be quite perfect and as you said we must use it as an indication to evolve further and not to complain about it .

 

[manoharkumar]

dear mr.Ramanathan, when i wrote abt horoscope etc my intention was to point out that the marrying person is not at all related in any way to the girl or boy... as to be in the case discussed here. What i appreciated the checkmates that our earlier generations made, which made life easier while choosing bride or groom... Already there is a huge thread where in the pros & cons of jothish, horoscope etc is being thrashed out...
Yes, Dr.Renukaji, i also felt the mental trauma that lady having after her discovery...

BTW Mr.Krish has leaked out a good plot of a Bollywood or Kollywood movie... Cheers.

 

[renuka]

It is not just spouses , but even parents , brothers ,sisters , friends , relatives , Office Bosses , the place where we live etc have a deep karmic connection and sometimes some of the things closest to us might not be quite perfect and as you said we must use it as an indication to evolve further and not to complain about it .

Dear sir,

I read about Karmic Debt and Karmic partners some time back.

It was a good topic cos after reading that we would realize that sometimes the person who hurts you the most might actually be helping you the most Karmically.

So sometimes imperfections might actually be the perfect solution.

 

[sarang]

Use of word 'incest' for a girl marrying her mother's brother or a boy marrying his aunt's (father's sister) daughter is wrong. Such marriages are common among tambrams too. Sagotra marriages are not allowed by all hindus, I think. Of course there are exceptions too.
From wiki, the universal educator:
[h=3]Hindu[/h]Hinduism speaks of incest in abhorrent terms. Hindus are fearful of the bad effects of incest and thus practice strict rules of both endogamy andexogamy within castes (Varna) but not in the same family tree (gotra) or bloodline (Pravara). Marriages within the gotra ("swagotra" marriages) are banned under the rule of exogamy in the traditional matrimonial system.[SUP][104][/SUP] People within the gotra are regarded as kin and marrying such a person would be thought of as incest. i.e. Marriage with paternal cousins is strictly prohibited. [SUP][105][/SUP] In fact marriage between two people whose parents are related paternally up to seven generations is expressly prohibited. Gotra is transferred down the male lineage while the Gotra of a female changes upon marriage. i.e., upon marriage a woman belongs to her husband's Gotra and no longer belongs to her father's Gotra.Hence marriage with a person having same Gotra as of the original Gotras of grandparents is prohibited[SUP][citation needed][/SUP].
Nevertheless, in certain parts of Southern India, Marriage with maternal cousins and marriages between Maternal Uncle and Niece were widely in practice a few decades back. However the tradition of getting married to maternal uncle has declined considerably now and may soon become a relic of the past.

Sorry to say this but I have heard people from other states of India and some other races comment that some communities in India practice Incest by marrying their mother's brother and cousins.
She wrote this:

 

[renuka]

Use of word 'incest' for a girl marrying her mother's brother or a boy marrying his aunt's (father's sister) daughter is wrong. Such marriages are common among tambrams too. Sagotra marriages are not allowed by all hindus, I think. Of course there are exceptions too.
.

But frankly speaking even I find marrying sister's daughter a bit unusual even though I am a Tamilian.

Becos you see a niece as in sister's daughter is carried by a person's own sister so shouldn't that child be viewed as one owns blood?

It's just too close for comfort and also cousins are like brother and sister there again it feels too close for comfort.

 

[renuka]

Originally Posted by sarang
Sagotra marriages are not allowed by all hindus, I think. Of course there are exceptions too.
.

You are right about the exceptions part.

I have no idea what is my Gotra and neither does my husband have any idea what his Gotra is..(if we actually have a Gotra itself I am not too sure)

So there is a possibility we might actually even be Sagotra.

Out here no one sees Gotras among Non Brahmins.

Shiva Gotra is just a general classification and not actually a true Gotra cos all Non Brahmin Tamilians here are grouped under Shiva Gotra at the time of death.

Here they just see what caste and subcaste for Non Brahmins and Gotra is not even spoken about.

All I know about Gotra is its meaning "Go Trayate Iti Gotra"

 

[prasad1]

Marrying first cousins was common among European royalty. It is still practiced by Muslims and Parsees. The aberration of marrying 1st cousins in Tamil Nadu is unique among Indians. Initially Brahmins were reluctant to follow this practice. Economics of the agrarian society contributed to this practice.

In all cultures norms (or the law) changes over a period of time.

But it is sad commentary that one criminal act by a demented person in America is being posted in TB site. I wonder why?

 

[renuka]

But it is sad commentary that one criminal act by a demented person in America is being posted in TB site. I wonder why?

Dear Prasad,

Why spoil the fun..we Indians love praising ourselves.

You know the general reaction reading that story will be "Oh its too bad...how can this happen? Aiyoo thank God we still have values and culture etc..See how other cultures are ..Hey Bhagawan where is this world heading too? Bhagavan only you can save the world?"

 

[mkrishna100]

Dear sir,

I read about Karmic Debt and Karmic partners some time back.

It was a good topic cos after reading that we would realize that sometimes the person who hurts you the most might actually be helping you the most Karmically.

So sometimes imperfections might actually be the perfect solution.

Renukaji

I appreciate what you say but would like to modify it to be more inclusive i.e negative and positive people are equally responsible for our spiritual growth and let us not stick just with negative people to help us evolve spiritually .
I have some of my close family members and friends who always complain about people closer to them saying how mean minded ,insensitive , selfish etc etc they are and then they extrapolate this to the world saying that the entire world is like that . When they talk like that I ask them "how many people in the world have they met that they draw the conclusion that the entire world is full of selfish people ". They keep quiet when I ask such a question then I myself give the answer saying that just like precious things like Gold , diamond ,pearls etc are not visibly available on the surface of the earth and one has to dig deep the earth or dive deep in to the oceans to find them , so also good ,spiritually minded precious people are not going to be found just like that in your house , in your relatives house , in the malls , in the offices etc .Precious people are rare and one needs to make oneself worthy of meeting them and life always provides the opportunity for such a meeting if we elevate ourselves and willing to come out of our regular comfort zones . Kindly note when I say Precious people it does not mean some one sitting in a Himalayan Cave etc , he /she can be your neighbor or staying in the next street or working in your office or it can be some one in another continent who may be travelling with you in flight on a visit or it can be anyone else . I have myself met many such precious people who were not saints but really gem of people but they just bumped in to my life some how when I was deeply involved in my yoga sadhana . So we get to meet those people only when we elevate ourselves and here is where the negative and positive people in our life matter .If we are surrounded by negative people ,we can use it as a pointer to move ahead saying this is not the way to live or if we are surrounded by very positive people then we can also use it as a pointer to elevate ourselves saying this is the way to live .
In my own family I have met many positive and negative people and I have drawn valuable lessons from both i.e how to live and how not to live and I consider both as a blessing in my life . I think the same will apply to everyone else here .

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad,

Why spoil the fun..we Indians love praising ourselves.

You know the general reaction reading that story will be "Oh its too bad...how can this happen? Aiyoo thank God we still have values and culture etc..See how other cultures are ..Hey Bhagawan where is this world heading too? Bhagavan only you can save the world?"

You are right. Yes Indians love to see others misery, as they wallow in their situation all the time.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

Astrology is science and there is no denying the fact.However,there are certain preconditions for the predictions to be correct.One is astrologer's competence and the, other one is correctness of horoscope .Unless these two conditions are satisfied, all predictions are approximations though not assumptions.

 

[biswa]

I am still missing something. Why is this thread titled Oh! America! Is it for gratuitous America bashing? Is all America involved in incest? Or is incest only confined to America?