• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

New religions from hinduism

Status
Not open for further replies.

CHANDRU1849

Well-known member
After the Karnataka Govt. recommends separate religious status to Lingayats, several groups in Tamil Nadu within Hindu fold claiming separate religious status.

One popular Tamil TV Channel some time back interviewed a member of Vallalar Manram from Vadalur on the subject and today the interview will be on Ayya Madham (a Vaishnavite tradition it seems). Already nearly 5000 families in Tirunelveli District want to leave Hinduism to be part of Shiva Madham.

From the above, it looks there are serious efforts from certain sections to destabilize Hinduism in order to force the people to embrace their religions. Unless there is united efforts from Hindus belonging to all sections to stick to the religion, Hindus as a major force in Tamil Nadu will be in danger, and even there is a possibility of Hindu population coming down drastically in Tamil Nadu.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Actually is there a Hindu religion to start with?
I dont think so..everything we call Hinduism is a conglomerate of various local/tribal/communal cultural practices spiced with Vedic culture...recite a swaha or two we call it Hinduism.

So now each one wants to break free.

Its no big deal I feel...everything finally is just a matam(school of thought)
 
OP
OP
C

CHANDRU1849

Well-known member
Actually is there a Hindu religion to start with?
I dont think so..everything we call Hinduism is a conglomerate of various local/tribal/communal cultural practices spiced with Vedic culture...recite a swaha or two we call it Hinduism.

So now each one wants to break free.

Its no big deal I feel...everything finally is just a matam(school of thought)

Yes. Various forms of worship, after sometime, come under the common name Hindu. If it splits into various groups, there is a possibility of infighting and ultimate disappearance of all forms of worship leading to embracing other Religions, which is probably the aim of organized Religions.

The novel method adopted by vested interests to switch over to other Religions has started giving dividends.
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
Actually is there a Hindu religion to start with?
I dont think so..everything we call Hinduism is a conglomerate of various local/tribal/communal cultural practices spiced with Vedic culture...recite a swaha or two we call it Hinduism.

So now each one wants to break free.

Its no big deal I feel...everything finally is just a matam(school of thought)[/QUOTE

Yes, Doctor. There is no religion by name " Hinduism". Similarly the word "India" is coined by the westerners. "Veda" means "knowledge" the word is based on the root " Vid"- "to know".

आ नो भद्राः क्रतवो यन्तु विश्वतः broadly translated says "Let noble thoughts come to us from all sides."
(Rig Veda 1-89-1).
Thus, we cannot define for certain who is a "Hindu". To my knowledge we cannot legally accept one as a "Hindu" or not.
However there are some basic beliefs like Om-Pranava, Karma theory, Rebirth, belief in Soul etc.,that are broadly accepted by groups claim to come under Hindus.
The concept of God and relation ship with creator differs among groups of believers.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi

i feel hinduism is more a group of castes....caste is major problem in hinduism...more diversity makes more problems...
 

KRN

Active member
Hinduism is a "Yatrika"-religion. All Hindus venerate certain places in different corners of the country - ie Kashi, Ganga, Ayodhya, Rameswaram, Kanchi etc etc and strongly encourage pilgrimages. Of course, the significance of Kashi to a Vaishnava might not be the same as with a Shaiva. But even Advaitins or Buddhists or Jains venerate these places in their own fashion. Therein lies the secret of Hinduism. If you check the Puranas, the bulk of the material is occupied by description of the Tirthas in all these places, and various myths associated with them. All those stories like Ramayana, Mahabharata etc are linked to these sacred places. The message they convey is - Charaiveti - don't stay content in your palaces. Go out into the forest or other places, and keep seeking new experiences, but in the Hindu way..... of including a bit of worship into each travel.
 
Last edited:

KRN

Active member
hi

i feel hinduism is more a group of castes....caste is major problem in hinduism...more diversity makes more problems...

But Hinduism survived only due to the caste system. While admitting new groups to the Hindu setup, the Pauranikas rightly concluded that the attachment of people to their ancestry, livelihood and place of birth is far more powerful than any caste-based rules likely to be imposed on them, hence they identified special "places of blessing" or Tirthas in every nook and corner of the country, "revealed" some mythological stories connecting the places and their livelihood with deities or sages in the Hindu pantheon, and built a few temples to start with, while allowing the groups to retain their own individual worship practices. This pattern can been seen throughout India.
 
Last edited:

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Hinduism is a "Yatrika"-religion. All Hindus venerate certain places in different corners of the country - ie Kashi, Ganga, Ayodhya, Rameswaram, Kanchi etc etc and strongly encourage pilgrimages. Of course, the significance of Kashi to a Vaishnava might not be the same as with a Shaiva. But even Advaitins or Buddhists or Jains venerate these places in their own fashion. Therein lies the secret of Hinduism. If you check the Puranas, the bulk of the material is occupied by description of the Tirthas in all these places, and various myths associated with them. All those stories like Ramayana, Mahabharata etc are linked to these sacred places. The message they convey is - Charaiveti - don't stay content in your palaces. Go out into the forest or other places, and keep seeking new experiences, but in the Hindu way..... of including a bit of worship into each travel.

Agreed...but sometimes too many directions becomes directionless.

I feel in the past people stuck to their matam...a Shaiva worshipped only Shiva ..a Vaishnava worshipped only Vishnu..

Then the phenomenon of everything is under one roof came and all forms became an alphabet soup and direction was lost in this criss crossing of matams.

Its like a matam sankara..an admixture of matams..the sarva dharma concept which finally leads to a lack of direction.

Most texts do not encourage a Varna Sankar..admixture of Varna but no one talks about admixture of matam.

I feel an admixture of matam creates chaos and confusion.

May be if each sect detaches from the nidus called Hindusim and follow their sect correctly..then may be less confusion will prevail.
Just 1 form of God..1 doctrine...it might be for the better.

I feel among sects..Vaishnavaism ia focused but.they could do better if Vishnu didnt have partners as in Lakshmi or Avatars or Messegers/Alwars.

Shaivaism as in only worship of Shiva Linga and nothing else is the closest.one can get to a Formless worship.

Shiva Linga is a "formless" form.
 
Last edited:
After the Karnataka Govt. recommends separate religious status to Lingayats, several groups in Tamil Nadu within Hindu fold claiming separate religious status.

One popular Tamil TV Channel some time back interviewed a member of Vallalar Manram from Vadalur on the subject and today the interview will be on Ayya Madham (a Vaishnavite tradition it seems). Already nearly 5000 families in Tirunelveli District want to leave Hinduism to be part of Shiva Madham.

From the above, it looks there are serious efforts from certain sections to destabilize Hinduism in order to force the people to embrace their religions. Unless there is united efforts from Hindus belonging to all sections to stick to the religion, Hindus as a major force in Tamil Nadu will be in danger, and even there is a possibility of Hindu population coming down drastically in Tamil Nadu.

Whether it is the lingayats or some other hindu sect, they want out of the hindu fold only because of political and legal reasons. That is the reality in India. Hindus are paying a big penalty just for remaining hindus. All BJP or any other truly secular party has to say and do is to either revoke the exclusive priveleges available to minorities or make them available to hindus as well and treat hindus on par with the other religionists. All this nautanki will then stop.
 

KRN

Active member
Agreed...but sometimes too many directions becomes directionless.
I feel an admixture of matam creates chaos and confusion.

May be if each sect detaches from the nidus called Hindusim and follow their sect correctly..then may be less confusion will prevail.
Just 1 form of God..1 doctrine...it might be for the better.

In my opinion, all Hindu sects believe that the God is within, shining as the all pervasive Atman. All their doctrines can in some way be traced back to the Upanishads. It is the non-Hindu religions who cannot accept this tattvam. So they have branded all these pagan Upanishadic sects into one Hindu fold. And we too, realising the advantages offered by such branding, accepted it. At present, some Lingayats, solely for benefiting from the minorities' special privileges, might choose to move away from the hindu fold. But ideologically they will not be accepted by the Abrahamic religions. Hence I believe they will soon return to the Hindu identity.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Agreed...but sometimes too many directions becomes directionless.
I feel in the past people stuck to their matam...a Shaiva worshipped only Shiva ..a Vaishnava worshipped only Vishnu..
Then the phenomenon of everything is under one roof came and all forms became an alphabet soup and direction was lost in this criss crossing of matams.
Its like a matam sankara..an admixture of matams..the sarva dharma concept which finally leads to a lack of direction.

It is glib to say so.

There are two aspects to religion/spiritual thinking.

One involves brain activity--to think, explore, understand and explain.

The other involves the living here and now with all fears, happiness, sorrow, burden etc., and looking for an explanation to the suffering as well as doing things to bear, fight and come out successful.

The directions are for those who are in the quest no.1. There are several pointers and each chooses a pointer and travels in the direction shown depending on his equipment.

The stotram, the rituals, the discipline, the faith etc., are for those who are taking the quest no.2.

There are also those whose equipment is either in disrepair or absent completely who feel directionless and give up altogether or become anti heroes.

Matams are visible distant light houses for seekers. They show where safety of shore lies.

Most texts do not encourage a Varna Sankar..admixture of Varna but no one talks about admixture of matam.
I feel an admixture of matam creates chaos and confusion.

Varna is altogether a different issue. Varna sankar is spoken against because it involves dilution of skills inherited through genes and the impact of the environment on genes. It involves not only skills acquired already but also wipes out the potential and scope for future improvement and refinement of skills. And society stands to lose. Matoms do not create confusion. It is what you look for from a matam that creates confusion. If you do not get what you look forfrom a matam, go to the next matam and try to settle down.

May be if each sect detaches from the nidus called Hindusim and follow their sect correctly..then may be less confusion will prevail.
Just 1 form of God..1 doctrine...it might be for the better.

Those societies which wanted to organize themselves either to go to war to win territories or to enslave other societies needed a central theme to rally people around and the religion came handy. The ghettoisation of Jews of England and Scotland, the burning at stakes of protestants in England, the killing of Jews by Nazi Hitleretc., and even the atrocities let loose on the innocent poor vaishnavite community in Melkote in Karnataka by the sultan's army (these families do not celebrate Diwali because the mayhem was on a Diwali day hundreds of years back) are all instances where the political need to organize and subjugate was the overwhelming driving force and religion as a spiritual path was just secondary or was ignored completely.

It is politics-pure and simple. Politics needs a single God and unquestioning followers. The single doctrine, single God named by me and me alone, are those of religions which came into being for political reasons. Hinduism accepts one God but leaves it to the individual to determine how he perceives that God and worships/not worships that God. It recognizes that the individuals have equipments of different capacities and different methods of performance.

In Hinduism looking for one doctrine/one god is accepted but is never thrust on people. Individuals have a lot of liberty.

I feel among sects..Vaishnavaism ia focused but.they could do better if Vishnu didnt have partners as in Lakshmi or Avatars or Messegers/Alwars.

Men and women are different in creation. And Gods and Godesses of Hinduism fulfills the need to give form to the representation of femininity. No other religion seems to have addressed this aspect. alwars were not messengers in the sense in which the term messenger is un derstood in other religions. There is a lot of difference.

Alwars/Nayanmars were very evolved souls. Period.

Shaivaism as in only worship of Shiva Linga and nothing else is the closest.one can get to a Formless worship.
Shiva Linga is a "formless" form.

Shiv Ling is not a form. It is just an indicator/a mark/a label to indicate something else. Human mind when fails to grasp anything from a vacuum, has been shown the indicator(the linga) and to imagine a God entity behind it with the given equipment.

Just some thoughts.
 
Last edited:

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
It is glib to say so.

There are two aspects to religion/spiritual thinking.

One involves brain activity--to think, explore, understand and explain.

The other involves the living here and now with all fears, happiness, sorrow, burden etc., and looking for an explanation to the suffering as well as doing things to bear, fight and come out successful.

The directions are for those who are in the quest no.1. There are several pointers and each chooses a pointer and travels in the direction shown depending on his equipment.

The stotram, the rituals, the discipline, the faith etc., are for those who are taking the quest no.2.

There are also those whose equipment is either in disrepair or absent completely who feel directionless and give up altogether or become anti heroes.

Matams are visible distant light houses for seekers. They show where safety of shore lies.



Varna is altogether a different issue. Varna sankar is spoken against because it involves dilution of skills inherited through genes and the impact of the environment on genes. It involves not only skills acquired already but also wipes out the potential and scope for future improvement and refinement of skills. And society stands to lose. Matoms do not create confusion. It is what you look for from a matam that creates confusion. If you do not get what you look forfrom a matam, go to the next matam and try to settle down.



Those societies which wanted to organize themselves either to go to war to win territories or to enslave other societies needed a central theme to rally people around and the religion came handy. The ghettoisation of Jews of England and Scotland, the burning at stakes of protestants in England, the killing of Jews by Nazi Hitleretc., and even the atrocities let loose on the innocent poor vaishnavite community in Melkote in Karnataka by the sultan's army (these families do not celebrate Diwali because the mayhem was on a Diwali day hundreds of years back) are all instances where the political need to organize and subjugate was the overwhelming driving force and religion as a spiritual path was just secondary or was ignored completely.

It is politics-pure and simple. Politics needs a single God and unquestioning followers. The single doctrine, single God named by me and me alone, are those of religions which came into being for political reasons. Hinduism accepts one God but leaves it to the individual to determine how he perceives that God and worships/not worships that God. It recognizes that the individuals have equipments of different capacities and different methods of performance.

In Hinduism looking for one doctrine/one god is accepted but is never thrust on people. Individuals have a lot of liberty.



Men and women are different in creation. And Gods and Godesses of Hinduism fulfills the need to give form to the representation of femininity. No other religion seems to have addressed this aspect. alwars were not messengers in the sense in which the term messenger is un derstood in other religions. There is a lot of difference.

Alwars/Nayanmars were very evolved souls. Period.



Shiv Ling is not a form. It is just an indicator/a mark/a label to indicate something else. Human mind when fails to grasp anything from a vacuum, has been shown the indicator(the linga) and to imagine a God entity behind it with the given equipment.

Just some thoughts.

Great reply though I might still be searching for answers I might never find.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
Thank you for visiting TamilBrahmins.com

You seem to have an Ad Blocker on.

We depend on advertising to keep our content free for you. Please consider whitelisting us in your ad blocker so that we can continue to provide the content you have come here to enjoy.

Alternatively, consider upgrading your account to enjoy an ad-free experience along with numerous other benefits. To upgrade your account, please visit the account upgrades page

You can also donate financially if you can. Please Click Here on how you can do that.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks