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[KRS]

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Sri vanam9394 Ji wrote:

1. Are you justifying your meat-eating practice ?? You are really a chandala.
2. When you become GOD you can also eat meat. But the fact is you will never become GOD.

May I respectfully point out that these types of statements are personal attacks/observations and not discussions. While the past postings by the above person talk about 'Brahmins need to unite', statements such as above can not unite us, nor can it bring the other person towards one's own point of view.

The topic of vegetarianism has been discussed 'ad nauseum' in these Forums. This is a very strongly held belief, by both sides. In my opinion, there is no middle ground, except to say that 'live and let live'.

I am very grateful that in our religion, there is not a single 'Pope', to 'excommunicate' one on the basis of their 'wrong' belief.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[vijisesh]

My vote is for Mr.KRS on this issue ,
The Human being is always known for his grey nature !!
Neither white nor black but grey u know what I mean Heckle and Jeckle sort of stuff!
and in general we rarely find people confess like , this learned person confessing himself to be a chandala ,
think twice , he could;ve opted to hide his interest towards Non-veg and behaved in a " Formal way !! " , one could've never known !!

Believe me !!
Nothing's wrong if ur conscience permits !!

 

[vanam9394]

Nothings wrong

My vote is for Mr.KRS on this issue ,
The Human being is always known for his grey nature !!
Neither white nor black but grey u know what I mean Heckle and Jeckle sort of stuff!
and in general we rarely find people confess like , this learned person confessing himself to be a chandala ,
think twice , he could;ve opted to hide his interest towards Non-veg and behaved in a " Formal way !! " , one could've never known !!

Believe me !!
Nothing's wrong if ur conscience permits !!

Is murduring someone is Ok if your conscience permits !!

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Mr/Ms .vanam9394..

As per karmic law , section 121 , page 2 - chapter 606,

The most difficult thing is this world is to

CONVINCE ONE's CONSCIOUS , ALL by HIMSELF !!

Don;t get carried away ! I know its very difficult to change your views and thoughts , especially when those have been ENGRAVED DEEP inside by your dear ones - may be Mom /Dad or GURU !

but the most scintillating thing about BEING a HUMAN is to have OPEN WINDOWS !!
The concept of OPEN WINDOWS is to have free flow of air in and out of the house , similar to that if ONE OPENS the windows of his BRAIN , he seems to learn more and get the BENEFITS !!
YOUR CONCEPTS or MY CONCEPTS for that matter need not appear in the BOOK of RULES to many !! but a LOGICAL analysis of the situation needs to be done !!!!

Take a cool deep breath and chalk down what u feel is wrong !!

Then ,we shall have something better than ONE LINE responses!!

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The word chandala brought me fond memories of my grandmother. While on vacation in my grandfather's house one of my pranks (I was 4 or 5 years old) was to chase my grandmother after her bath shouting "I will touch you". She had to take bath again if I touched her. She will tolerate me for some time and then when her patience was stretched to the limit will shout "Chandala ...." I will run for cover as I knew that if I continued there I will get a bashing from my mother. I was my grandmother's favorite.

Our community is well known for conformism. Non conformism is not encouraged or tolerated. I am a born non-coformist. Sometimes even non-conformism just for the heck of it. As a friend put it "If you break the rules of the society, do not expect to get the acceptance."

When compared to some of the choice words used in the old usenet groups this is nothing. I asked for it and got it. No regrets. Chapter closed.

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Mr Nacchinarkiniyan

Come on ! No need to take it seriously !

Our community is well known for conformism - your statement !!

My F_ _ t , What conformism , to be frank with you , I have never seen an IDEAL person from our community , till date . All have their own shortcomings - some after money , some after lust , some steaming away in anger ( u can see smoke coming out from their noses/ ears ! ),
while some other's do sandhyavandhanam and other rituals to please the society ! VERY RARE TO FIND TRUE PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH !
Oh I forgot to mention ! I am also in the above list !!!

So CHEER UP !
People use CHOICE WORDS to express their Non-conformity with aggression but as I have mentioned earlier , if u don't keep the windows of your BRAIN open , u can never learn !
and when one never learns , he/she stays obstinate and unyielding and useless for him/her self and the society !

So As this forum requires all the GOOD IDEAS and THOUGHTS from you , improve your KARMA points and get into the loop of

DO CONTINUE !!!

Thanks
Your RASIGAN!

 

[rxrajamo]

Dear Shri. Vijisesh

Once again my responses in Brown

Dear Mr.Ramki ( rxrajamo) !

i prefer blue for my responses ! ( only for responses !)

--> Obviously , they didn't know how to cook sambhar / rasam / morkozkambu / vattalkozhambu/ sakkarapongal/ payasam !- Nomadic people , Agreed they ate meat to survive -- Jaane dho !
Time and Time Again the basics of Hinduisim as a way of Life is forgotten -
By looking at Rama / krishna / Shiva's picture or statue - neatly shaven or with a beard , one needs to see GOD who is formless and who is the supreme power !

It was not me who said that someone's so called "soul harmony" is corrupted by eating meat. All I was trying to point out was that it did not seem to have corrupted the souls of earlier Brahmins and I dont see any reason why it would do so now. Talking about Hinduism as a way of life etc is simply veering of the point we were discussing about.

Don't u sound a bit out of the topic under discussion -- I hope this forum doesn't have tiger's and Lion's as readers but HUMANS WITH SIX SENSES!
The Ecological balance of GOD , the almighty will take of creatures of lower end , let us spend some time worth while in a discussion which will benefit the mankind !

Unfortunately I was just pointing out that food (any food) is rejuvenating irrespective of whether it is dead meat or dead plant. Again my reference to Tigers and Lions was just to point out that they all get energy by simply eating only meat and that eating fresh vegetables is not the only way of getting rejuvenated.

- Who cares what the sages ate , When did Hinduism ask u to follow what the sages as is ????? My son will ask me one million questions if i have to make him do something new as I had done to my dad , perhaps !
Vijisesh, may I suggest that, you read your own postings before replying. To quote you " Yogi's always recommend eating fresh things.....". If you did not care what sages said or ate, then why quote them ? BTW, let us keep the discussion to general specifics and not veer off to what you asked your dad or what your son asks you. It is all personal and let us not digress.

Pretty obvious and logical ! Everyone has his own perception about things and has his own conscience to justify his doings !
Perceptions / Choices are one's personal choice and nobody is judging anybody based on that but go scientific and find out the difference between the digestive systems/ sharp canine teeth - other features favouring animals to depend on non-veg for sustenance !
The Human can do without it and his systems are not designed to handle the same !

Bravo !!! Great wordings ! Unfortunately, your earlier posting calling Shri.Naachinarkiniyan as a sinner for eating meat does not reflect this open thinking. Again to quote you "So as you have sinned , i recommend you to use phenol triglyceride to cleanse yourself !! and to change ur attitude at the earliest !"

Our discussion was about whether someone is a sinner just because someone chose to eat meat. Since you brought it up, there are umpteen scientific studies on whether humans are designed to handle meat or not. I can google articles arguing one way or other. But, IMHO, which you seem to agree, eating meat or vegetables is a person's personal choice and it is absolutely wrong to categorize someone as a sinner just because of that.

I hope ur next advocation will not be enlightening me about the extracts from animals present in medicines / toothpastes / shampoos etc ---

My point is not to advocate someone to lose his ethics by eating Non-veg but " When u can do without it ? , why don;t u give it a try ???

Unfortunately, that is not the way your posting sounded. I do nOt want to quote you again. But your posting was categorizing people based on their personal choices. Please avoid that.

Thanks , sorry if I heart someone's sentiments by my responses !

You did not hurt my sentiments in anyway. Thanks for being an active participant.

Ramki

 

[rxrajamo]

Good one Hari Your sense of humor always amazes me.

Ramki

Ramki wrote :

all the Lions and Tigers would be climbing up the orange trees instead of running after the deer !

Ramki,

Could the justification for this be then,

Tiger Biscuits, Lion Honey/Date Syrup, Anil semiya ?

 

[rxrajamo]

Vaanam

[
My responses in brown.

When you become GOD you can also eat meat. But the fact is you will never become GOD.[/quote]

I always believe, God is in everyone of us. That aside, the discussion was about whether one is committing a sin eating meat and not about who can eat meat. Let us stick to that please..

BTW, if only Gods can eat meat, then a logical corollary would be that all who eat meat including the predators (like Tiger and Lion) are Gods. Then we might have to start praying to them too.

As I said, let us not digress.

Thanks
Ramki

 

[vijisesh]

Great Sport !!

Dear Mr.Ramki ,

I appreciate ur sportiveness and love ur msg ...

You did not hurt my sentiments in anyway. Thanks for being an active participant.

and I agree with you that the first message to Mr.Nacchi..
may have sounded a bit harsh !
but internally , I really like the postings of this learned person and his way of handling things , without getting impatient and without following the "tit for tat" , formula like the rest of us !!( look at my msgs that have followed!)

I just wanted to know if he's really playing a trick to get the views of others about eating non-veg , by declaring his interests over the same !

And later , when there were lot of DIRECT attacks by some others, I took up the role of a defender! I love the sort of service and info that this person provides , which had been provided , only at a premium , till then , by other great guns !!

I have realised that the replies in brown , blue or black and repeated quotes of " u said that before and i said this because of this ''-- Tu Tu main main , sort of stuff are not getting me anywhere but tuning the ego's.
So thanks to your advise ! It will help me to be careful in future !

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The Caste system

First of all I would like to make it clear that I am not following the rules of any of the four Vadhams. (debates). My posts are only for information and make the reader think.

There is a problem with all intellectual researches. Most of the researches including mine are done to prove the already drawn conclusion. If you want to prove the opposite you will find material in the same texts. One of the reasons is the complexity of the Sanskrit language in which the same word has exactly the opposite meanings.

When I was talking about animal sacrifices, there was a just reasoning " Why are we allowing these anachronistic practices from those barbarous times to continue?"

By following the same line of argument " Why should we allow the anachronistic caste system from barbarous times to continue?"

The caste system in the Vedas was based on classes or division of labor. Such system have been found in ancient Iran. But by education one could become a Brahmin.

Veda Vyasa was not a Brahmin as his mother Sathyavati was a fisherwoman. (According to Manu and other Smiritis).

Valmiki was not a Brahmin.

Vishwamitra was not a Brahmin.

Here we have the compiler of the ancient Vedas, Ramayana and the Rishi who gave as Gayatri mantra. All the three were not Brahmins by birth. But we all accept them as the some of the greatest Rishis who have ever lived.

This is clear evidence that the caste system was not rigid during the Vedic period.

It became rigid during the Smiritis period. Even here we have to note that Manu Smiriti did permit the Brahmins to marry wives from all other castes. Yajnavalkya was more rigid than Manu in that he restricted the marriages to only two castes. But Yajnavalkya is very clear that a learned Shudra should be respected by all including Brahamins. But later Smiritis totally banned such marriages.

Please read the story of Satyakama Jabala in Chandogya Upanishad.

But there is a practical problem here. Even if all the Brahmins in India decry the caste system, it will not go away.

Generally people in India were not governed by the Smiritis, but by the prevailing customs in the jnati (the endogamous group). The customs were dictated by them. For example marriages were effectively recognized the jnati , and not the state. A marriage not recognized by the jnati, was effectively improper. The recent incident about the same Gotra marriage in Haryana bears witness to this.

This group decided the relationship between the castes. That is why you find so much variation in customs between different parts of India.

The politicians especially those who have a rural background understand this well. To get the votes of that community all you have to do is to influence the leaders of the jnati.

A powerful group can change castes. This is shown by the success of the Pallis in becoming Vanniya kula Kshatriyas and Shanans becoming Nadars during the last 150 years.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

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Sri Nacchinarkiniyan,
Sir, I refer to one of your mails wherein you have commented about
brahmins eating meat. Someone else also referred to the old custom
of procreation through his brother's wife ( I have forgotten the name sir ).
This was true in the olden times.
But, in Kali age, these are prohibited as per Devalar's dharma sastra
titled 'Nirnaya sindu' , the relevant sloka reads as under :-
Aswalambam kavalambam sannyasam pala paithrugam I
Devarena suthothpaththim klau pancha vivarjayeth II
Similar injunction is found even in Vyasa smrithi.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

[FONT=&quot]Sri. Ranganathan,[/FONT]

Sir,
[FONT=&quot]As I said earlier this is not a Vadham. I had said about Brahmins eating meat only in the context of accepting the values and practices of other communities.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
But since you have quoted a Smriti, I will talk about Smritis.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Professor Stenzler enumerates forty-six distinct Dharma Śástras or recognized modes of Hindu law and ritual. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]To those may be added several recensions of the same Dharma Śástras, of which professor Stenzler speaks to having read of twenty-two.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The entire forty-six are independent sources of and authorities upon Hindu law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Many Smriti works have been discovered later. And Smritis continue to be written. Recently I read about a Smriti written in 1945.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Hindus assume the text to be the language of inspiration; and, as the several Dharma Śástras not merely differ, but often dispose of the same subject in a contradictory manner, they deem it their duty to reconcile all discrepancies, how forced soever their interpretations may be.

Our Smirtis or Dharma Sashtras contain many injunctions which reflects an attitude which was prevalent earlier like total denial of any right to women. They had no right to do Puja, Homa and even pray to God. The only thing they could do was assist the husband in the performance of Dharma as Dharmapatni.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Swami Sivananda says[/FONT]

These Smritis have varied from time to time. The injunctions and prohibitions of the Smritis are related to the particular social surroundings. As these surroundings and essential conditions of the Hindu society changed from time to time, new Smritis had to be compiled by the sages of different ages and different parts of India.


The laws and rules which are based entirely upon our social positions, time and clime, must change with the changes in society and changing conditions of time and clime. Then only the progress of the Hindu society can be ensured.


Our present society has considerably changed. A new Smriti to suit the requirements of this age is very necessary. Another sage will place before the Hindus of our days a new suitable code of laws. Time is ripe for a new Smriti. Cordial greetings to this sage.

[FONT=&quot]
The Devala Smriti that you are quoting would have been written to suit the needs of the society in which the Brahmin community had become vegetarian. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Since the Brahmin Communities in India follow different Smritis, the rule quoted by you can not be universal. For example the Bengali Brahmin society underwent a number of social reforms over the years. The Smriti they follow now is called Raghunatha Smriti which was compiled around 1500 A.D. In this the entire Anthyeshti ceremony has been modified. They have done away with the horrible and obnoxious practice of Chavundi Brahmana. Most of them are Smartas though they do not call themselves so.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The concept of Ahimsa originated in Jainism which is against ritualism and preaches austere ethics. Their philosophy is based on Anekatmavada which lead to the concept of Ahimsa. They are all vegetarian.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]How the concept of Vegetarianism is viewed in different parts of India can be seen from the fact that whereas in Tamil Nadu Vegetarian is called Saivam, in most other parts of India it is called Vaishnava. In Vaishnavism Vegetarianism is given prime importance. Since the Smartas are also Vaishnavas (in the sense that they worship Vishnu also) most of them have accepted this. But it is not so in the other sects or other parts of India.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I do not think it is right on my part to discuss this subject, since this is neither about Hinduism nor about the Tamil Brahmin community the only subjects I came here to discuss about.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] I respect your views and I shall be grateful if the discussion about Vegetarianism is dropped so that we can continue with the discussion about how we can prevent conversions

Regards,

Thank you
[/FONT]

 

[santhosh rajagopal]

hello
gud even