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memory

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renuka

Well-known member
i want to post a question, hoping to get a religious based reply .

what is it that prevents us from remembering events in past lifes.
even under hypnotism a doctor can only ellicit subconcious events that a person can consiously remember say till the age of 3-4 and not even intrauterine memory.
i know all previous births memory are stored in the Chitta portion of our Anthakarana( which acts as a repository of memories)
i have a vague idea( linked to the subtle body and the Kundalini) which i dare not post yet till someone more learned can shed some light on this topic.
medically there is not enough evidence as medical science only deals with the physical body.Subtle and Causal body are not even defined and mentioned.
 
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pannvalan

Well-known member
If one is capable of remembering one's past lives, the whole world will be thrown into chaos.

The relationships between various individuals also will get distorted and will lead to doubts, suspicion, misplaced loyalties, envy, inbuilt revengeful attitudes and in case of changes from higher order births to lower order births, people in their present birth will be subjects of ridicule.

Similarly, there is every possibility that those who got elevated to higher order, from a lower order in their previous birth, will gain arrogance and start ill-treating others.

Alright, these issues apart, I ask you these questions.

1. What is the purpose of your starting this thread and by knowing the answers, what
are you going to do?


2. Are you sure that birth-rebirth cycle takes place in everybody's life?

3. Are all the human beings born again only as human beings?

4. In case of other living beings, if they get a chance to be born as human beings in
their next birth, how would the society treat such persons in their present life?

5. I think your question is to be rephrased thus:

"How do the past karmic aspects of a particular person get transmitted from one
life to another? Where is the data of such past karmas stored?"


The question of memory and recall will not arise, in such case.
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
dear sir,
i think you got me wrong.
i am not trying to break the code in order to remember past lifes but i want to know the barrier that prevents us from knowing it.
i know that all previous births data (not necesarily human) is stored in the Chitta portion of our antahkarana.
its not karma i am dicussing here but a question which could have an answer in the anatomy and the physiology of the subtle body.
i am a medical doctor by proffesion and i have been always amazed when a doctor is not able to go backwards in the subconscious mind of the patient more than what he can actually remember consciously say around 3-4 years of age.
you know in the human gross body we have a blood brain barrier which is a barrier that prevents certain medications and chemical from crossing into the brain.
i was hoping someone could enlighten me if a Subtle Memory Barrier exist in our Subtle body which prevents us from remembering past lifes whether human or not.
thats all.(purely for knowledge purposes, not to cause any chaos)
 
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SuryaKasyapa

Active member
As God himself said it is "Maaya".If this veil of maaya is not there can you imagine what will happen? Vengeance will linger on... sense of loss and deprivation will not disappaer...

It will be sure destruction, either by self or by killing.

Let maaya be so. Let the pandora's box be not opened.

Let us live in a self made bliss of ignorance (Let God be in his Yoga Nidra, and let us also be in the maaya nidra) self hypnotic sleep.

greetings
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
once the veil of maya is lifted chaos will never happen, only Ultimate Reality will prevail.
arent we all deluded by Maya?
remember: two little birds sitting on a tree
one eats fruits but the other just sees
One knows all but the other doesn't know
there's only one though two are in a row

once the veil of Maya is lifted only One remains.
How can One fight destroy, kill or self destruct when there is no other to fight with or no reason to self destruct.
i feel there is no harm exploring the Human body whether the Gross body, Subtle or Causal body in order to gain knowledge and gain a better insight.
if we had never opened the Pandoras box of the mind for new discoveries even typing this online would have never been possible.

i am not trying to discover the method to remember past lifes but to find out what prevents us from remembering it as i had mentioned in my previous post maybe a Subtle Memory Barrier?
i really invite feedbacks.
thanks for all so far
 
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C RAVI

Well-known member
To make our body understand and solve the issues, science played a vital role to be best of its capacity.

It's we human beings who could achieve this by constant research and practice. Medical science is still making plenty of efforts to save humans from various diseases. Who knows, in future Medical science my come up with Vaccination for AIDS.

What ever the scientific developments may be, it would not be possible to prove that God exists in various forms (It can only be in strong belief based on Puranams).

Likewise I believe science can not discover the barrier in this subtle body that prevents brain to recollect the past life. As such no human being would be in a position to even make a guess in terms of Human anatomy. Many of such queries would remain METEMPIRIC.

The human brain that can make amazing technological advancements, can never reach to the level of substantiating any thing that need to be REHASIYAM (mystery) in this world ruled by GOD (GOVERNOR, OBSERVER, DESTROYER).

We all are just a remote in the hands of GOD. The technological advancements we are experiencing today as well are as per the wishes/plans of the GOD.

It is believed that our brain and tongue are controlled by that remote that can not operate beyond the owner's wish.


Cheers...

RAVI
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
dear Shri Ravi,
you are surely right when you say that we are remotes in the hands of GOD(Generation, Organization, Dissolution).
but i dont know why many a times many individuals view God and Science as 2 distinct entities.
what is Science? Science is just a logical explanation thought process and discovery and its in no way trying to prove or disprove the existence of GOD or play God.
Science is the logical thinking process God has given us to realize Him.
every new discovery which one feels its new is just the unveiling of what was already present but just not "Unveiled" yet till the person most qualified "taps" in and gets the info and Eureka we have a discovery. thats it.
God gives us science to realize the knowledge.
the Human mind is the God given gift anyone can use to discover the truth.
may be some day some one might find the answer to my question when God decides .
 
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C RAVI

Well-known member
Dear Ms.RenukaKarthikayan ji,

I am really thrilled with the subject of this thread and the opinions that we all are exchanging. Hats off to you to make our brains stimulating.

Off course GOD and Science are two distinct entities.

GOD is the supreme power and no one could know the origin of such a super natural power. Why God came into existence and from where?

Where as science and technology is just a subject presented by God to the human kind.

As per Puranam, Hiranyakashyapa could not know his previous birh where he was Dwara Palakan in Vaikuntam and a true Bhaktha of Maha Vishnu. He was cursed by Brigu Maha Rishi to take a birth in Bhoologam and act entirely against Mahavishnu and to be killed by Maha Vishnu himself. Because, the dwarapalakan didn't allow Brigu Maha Rishi to enter and meet Narayana.

By the above story, I want to emphasize that we human beings by knowing our previous birth can not in any way perform our karma. All our karma's would become fake and there can not be genuine remorse.

There might be came cases 1000's of years past when grate saints could have that power and the same would have been ceased by the GOD for its valid importance.

But now really I have another mind twisting doubt...

We all may know that some time before (during present generation) there were few cases in Northern India where some had Past life memories and started taking about all those who all were related during past life.

There was a case where a 8 or 10 years young boy told that he was born in a particular village in UP and want to meet his wife. The case was something like this and I am not 100% sure of this case.

And the fact is there is a Past Life Research Institute in Madhya Pradesh and Bangalore...I came to know this couple of your before through a TV program.


The doubt here is - how some people could come to know about their past life? What must be the reason behind it? Must it be a FATE??? And not because of hidden organ of the human body that could not be yet identified by Science???


Cheers...

RAVI
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
priya ravi mahodaya,

since you brought up the topic of Vijaya being born as Hiranyakashipu, I wonder when he took birth as Ravana, did he know the reason of his birth and knew his previous birth because there is a stanza in the Shiva Tandava strotram
which goes: KADA NILAMPA NIRJAREE NIKUNJA KOTARE VASAN
VIMUKTHA DURMATHEE SADA SIRAH STHAMANJALEEM VAHAN
VILOLA LOLA LOCHANO LALAMA BHALA LAGNAKA
SHIVETHI MANTRAMUCHARAN KADA SUKHEE BHAVAMYAHAM

meaning: when will i live the life of pleasure, meditating on Shiva
sitting near a groove/waterfall
realising all my bad thoughts and with my hands clasped above
my head
after realing all passion for pretty women with shifting eyes(TRANSLATION TAKEN FROM CELEXTEL)

doesnt this stanza sound as if he is waiting to be released from the present birth?
he sounds as if he knows he is forced to have a Durmathee in this life and really wants to break free.

kindly comment
 
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pannvalan

Well-known member
Research in the area of past life experiences is continuing in many parts of the world.
It comes under "Para Psychology". (para means beyond)

In some cases, the persons concerned could recall their past life with 100% precision viz. vivid memories of the house, street, town etc. they lived in, the details of their relatives in the past life, their names, nature of relatioships, their idiosyncrasies, their problems etc. In some cases, such places were not far off, but in some other countries too.

Problems started only when such persons with memories of their past lives visited their previous place and met the people living there, explaining the relationships these persons had in their previous birth with them and wanted to continue such relationships in their present life too.

Some did not believe them, while some others not only believed them, but started accepting these persons as their husband/wife, brother, son, mother etc. in their present life. Because of this, a strange phenomenon emerged:

A 16 year old boy (in the present birth) becoming husband of a 53 year
old lady; a 5 year old girl becoming daughter of a 48 year old male;
a 12 year old girl becoming wife of a 75 year old male etc. This led to
lot of disputes and quarrels, because of properties, wealth and other
sensitivities involved.


Now, tell me is all this wanted? The birth and death do not occur in perfect cycles, with the continuity from one to another. Once the system is disturbed, secrecy unravelled, there is no necessity for a God at all.

Note: Such freak cases are one out of 110 millions or so.
 
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C RAVI

Well-known member
Sri Renukakarthikayan ji,

Mine was just a simple example to validate my opinions. The simple story of Hrinyakashyapa stricked to me to discuss how God controls one's Janma.

In the case of Vijaya/Hrinayakashyapa/Ravan, we can say that the Soul initially belonged to Parloka/Devaloka. It had a birth in Bhooloka for remorse as well to set examples for human beings of future Yugas.

Perhaps in my previous post, I have also stated -
--------------------------------
There might be came cases 1000's of years past when grate saints could have that power and the same would have been ceased by the GOD for its valid importance.
--------------------------------
As we believe every Yuga has its own system determined by God, we human beings in this Yuga are devoid of gaining such capacity.

As per Sri Pannvalan Ji's statement, the case what we all have heard about people recollecting their previous life may be fake, exploiting the belief of previous birth.

If at all some of them are true, these cases could not be scientifically proved/authenticated yet. And my assumption is that it may hardly come to light in future.


Cheers..

RAVI
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

Really nice topic :)

So far, from what have come across, according to some yogis, their views are opposite of some expressed here.

Every man's ultimate main, in the yoga school, is self-realization. And knowing his past lives is a part of being self-realized.

In the process of moving towards samadhi, it is normal to view one's own past lives in the mind's eye. It nullifies all emotions, from anger to happiness - makes one's mind like a blank sheet of paper and completely still (sthira manam).

One realizes that all attachments are but transitory, impermanant, and short lived. It is only after this state that one is actually able to move towards samadhi.

I used to question the puranas a lot (still do). In some stories we have read about how one was a pig, parrot or some animal in a past life, is a poor human in yet another, and a monk or king in yet another life.

Am told those stories are not really false, because those people were able to recall their past lives; and thus they came to be recorded or written. Whether the events are 'good' or 'bad', there is no room for 'judgement' in them. Everything that is a state of conditioning is meant to be. This part, i think, moves into the subject of karma and cosmic consciousness.

Reg the inability to recall, am told that more the attachment or more the continous conditioning of the mind, the more the inability to go back into the past. I suppose the subtle memory barrier that you mention, is but the state of conditioned reality in which we live - with the conditioning itself preventing clarity of association with the self.

No matter what we are on the outside, we are more than just completely ourselves in our dream state, meditative state and when praying. One way of 'watching' one's own life, is "watch" one's own thoughts and dreams (in the lucid dream stage if half-asleep) during these times.

Regards.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member

As per Sri Pannvalan Ji's statement, the case what we all have heard about people recollecting their previous life may be fake, exploiting the belief of previous birth.

If at all some of them are true, these cases could not be scientifically proved/authenticated yet. And my assumption is that it may hardly come to light in future.

i perfectly agree with this.

it took a long time for the west to accept things like psychokinesis as a non-heretical 'normal' phenomenon; but with more work in future, who knows someday in future the gap b/w the metaphysical and science will be bridged...
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
dear Sharma Mahodaya,

thank you very much for the article you posted which i read before i started my work today.
it seems a little familiar though( i think i read it before, nevertheless its worth refreshing my memory from time to time) i wonder if its from one of the Summer Discourses of a Divine personality who hails from Penukonda District Andhra Pradesh.
really and truly an enlightening article.
Human birth is is really meant to experience atmic Bliss.
the truth is actually contained in the three letters MAN( i read this recently)
M --- overcoming Maya
A --- experiencing Atma
N --- attaining Nirvana

from the article you sent me its clear that by knowing the Atma one knows everything and the past lifes and past memories would be of no use because it would a multitude of shades paler compared to the attained Sat -Chit- Ananda.
its just like the famous saying that when a salt crystal wants to know his identity, he goes to the ocean and becomes one with it.

please read this:


THE UNKNOWN



No one really knows the unknown,
A journey towards, all eventually go,
What It beholds, remains the greatest mystery,
A search for Existence, Consciousness, Bliss.

Well enshrouded by the Cosmic Deluder,
Spun like a spider, a web of three colours,
DESTROY the BOND with the POWER of knowledge,
Emerge a chrysalis from the cocoon of ignorance.

Free to fly, like a butterfly,
Be tempted not by the flowers of desire,
Embark the journey to region of no return,
Sail the ocean of sorrow and trouble.

The road to the Unknown can never be found,
By the light all see around,
Look within, not with your eyes,
Realize the path in this play of Divine.

WHEN the journey ends, truth will dawn,
THE UNKNOWN,“You” will never EVER know,
COS’ “You” were never really “You”,
BUT all thE while the Unknown too.
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
happy,

question for you.

what about going to seances to talk with departed loved ones.

i wanted to go to one, to talk to my then recently passed away dad. but mom discouraged me.

now i want to talk to mom. i was told that in certain environment, and background, through certain people, we can talk to the dead.

way back in the 1960s, there was a craze in madras - about how medium talked through the 3 legged primus stove.

one spread kola maav evenly on the floor, and placed the stove on top. one tap meant yes, two meant no.

queries used to be answered in a yes/no mode by the stove medium.

any input from you, or from any other person from the public, would be greatly appreciated.

thank you.
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
i do not have that much knowledge in this area but this is what i read a long time ago.
certain individuals claim and some actually have paranormal abilities to connect with the departed. each of them have certain methods to get a connection through the "Other Side".
as we know we are living in the physical world but we are not the only ones. we are sorrounded by various dimension each having its own portal of entry and exit.
the other inhabitants are in their own dimensions and need not necesaary be able to see us unless they are able to find a portal into the physical world and vice versa for us too.
but how far its true only God knows.
speaking to the departed is said to "disturb" the departed soul by causing bondage and attachment.they have already worked out their karma in the physical world and need not be dragged into it again. sometimes if they want to "guide us" they might appear in dreams to convey a message.
and at times it might not be actually the departed responding through the medium but some other entity which might pretend to be the departed one.
by opening such portals restlessness can occur to the person seeking to talk to the departed as there is a change in the individuals aura and electromagnetic field which might be like an antenna to attract negative entities.
it is a risk one takes to deal with the departed through a medium
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
thank you so much renu.

i think, it is with the perception, let sleeping dogs lie, that mum advised me not to venture into this hazardous path.

every once in a while, the 'curious' in me wakes me, and says 'why not?'

thanks to something in me, which yearns for reassurance...

thanks to folks like you which warn me against such stuff...

i will refrain.

thank you again.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Dear Sri Kunjuppu ji and Renuka ji,

Have not tried speaking to departed souls myself. But i know of spirit mediums who do that.

One friend, a chinese man, consulted one spirit medium to guide him. He was under a great deal of personal turmoil and he came away feeling very calm. He was able to take crucial decisions without the old all-consuming anger in his heart, which he had in him previously.

Sometimes, without realizing it ourselves, we are 'destained' to give as well as receive hurt, anger, and all those disturbing emotions with the others.

I learnt from him that the ancestor who conveyed the "answers" to him thru the spirit-medium (a lady who kept a bowl of water in front of her with crystals, etc and spoke in a trance) already knew the situation he was in and he did not have to spell his queries aloud.

Also learnt that if one specifically wants to connect with a particular ancestor, say one's mother, it may not happen. Various reasons are given - either the soul has attained nirvana / moksha, or has already been born somewhere else, etc. Trying to connect with any ancestor too, may not always be successful. But sometimes, the ancestor's soul knows the descendent is coming to him/her for guidance / answers and is very welcoming and loving in conveying the answers.

The chinese also have ancestral worship and there is the belief that the departed souls must not be unnecessarily disturbed (just like our tarpanam, they too make offerings to the departed ones regulary). However, in times of difficulties, i think some of them consider it fine to consult the mediums.

From the other spirit mediums have spoken to (they are westerners), i understand that their methods vary. Some use no tools like water or crystals...they simply enter into a dhyaman mode, a sort of meditative trance and guide the client. From those who have tried it, heard that it is sometimes eerie how much they can tell about the client and his situation and guide him.

Perhaps in the case of such dhyanam-type spirit-mediums, it may have something to do with a combination of their mind-reading skills as well as their clairvoyant ability to connect with the 'unknown' for answers (perhaps they are a type of modern day seers / sages). Maybe, just maybe, instead of "disturbing" one's loved one's soul perhaps its ok to try out such clairvoyant spirit mediums.

i have been rather curious to try out spirit-mediums, but not now, later in future perhaps. If at all i do, will surely share my experience with you.
 
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vikrama

Active member
The god men and the spiritual mediums offer consolation to the mentally troubled. So they do a good service. But don’t consider them divine.

The capabilities of human brain have not been fully explored. But we know that a trained person can influence others’ thinking. This, we see in the magic shows, where the spectator is subtly influenced to select a particular card from a pack. We are surprised when the magician tells the name of the card exactly.

Higher than this there is something called thought reading. This is also practiced by many magicians in their show. (saw a J.N.Sarkar show where he wrote words written by different spectators in different languages without the magician seeing them.) Vivekananda tells of a yogi who could read any book kept in the hands of a visitor without seeing it. The nadi josyam and the spiritutal medium are making use of this trick, I suppose. There are many god men who tell us all our past exactly. I believe that there is nothing spiritual or godly in it but mere thought reading. Many a time their predictions for the future, based on guess, prove false.

All our brains are interconnected at a particular level. If you are able to reach that level you can read what is going on in the brains of others in your presence and even outside. I practiced it when I was 35 and was successful in reading others’ thoughts. All the thoughts of the passers-by kept on pouring into my head and made me restless. So with great effort I unlearnt it.

I think that the same can explain the phenomenon of some children remembering their past lives. I am not a man of science but let me try to explain it. By some accident certain brain cells get activated by which the child is able to read the thoughts of one particular person only, say the mother of a dead person, and then clings to it for some more time.
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
since this topic is getting all interesting,i want to post another question.
this is a true incident, how can this be explained.
this one particular individual who worked in the medical line always had lucid dreams about people who are trying to touch and reach out and with injuries but cannot touch as there is a transparent barrier in between this medical personell and the "injured individuals".
and invariably the very next day the "injured individuals" seen in the dream would be the ones who turn up dead in the morgue with the same injuries noted. from post mortems time of death will be determined and the dreams have always occured when the person in the morgue was still alive.
this dreams occur before the death of this people but suprisingly the same injuries are noted the very next day.
can someone explain
 

pannvalan

Well-known member
There are some popular branches of occult sciences.

1. Clairvoyance or Extra Sensory Perception (ESP)

2. Telepathy

3. Planchette Board

4. Weird Dreams that really happen subsequently

5. Resurrection

6. Intuition

7. Witchcraft or Sorcery

8. Getting something - a concrete object - from nowhere.

9. Trance

10. Miraculous powers like walking on the surface of water, Transmigration of soul,
Being present at more than one place simultaneously, Floating in the air, Abnormal
healing powers, Solving all intricate problems of one etc.

11. Any other related phenomenon.

All these come under occult sciences and do not fit into any scientific theory or logic.
To believe them or not is each individual's choice. There cannot be any consensus.

Divine and spiritual people decry all this.
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
personally, i think it is fear of the unknown, that drives me not to explore further re trying to talk to my dad's spirits.

also i have a healthy respect for my mother's (who has also passed away) sense of judgement. she told me not to go there.

i think, once i get into it, it is like acquisition of certain knowledge. also losing of a sense of innocence.

death will come to me anytime. the concept of death is not frightening, as it has been in existence since man came into being.

the process of dying is frightening only for the imagined pain. with today's comforts of painkillers, this too should be ok.

thank you.
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
religion teaches us to view death as a change just like changing old worn out garments and putting on new ones when we have rebirth and the famous saying that the wise do not lament for the dead.
death per se is not frightening but the process of dying can be very very painful in the case of death caused by drowning, murder by sharp object, fire, sadistically tortured etc, no amount of pain killers can help in those kinds of death. the fear and anxiety itself suffered by those individuls can be so painful. so its really hard not to lament for those who have died unjustly and painfully.dying because of old age without any underlying disease is such a blessing very few have.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
renu,

i think the luckiest are those that die in their sleep.

recently i had an uncle who died that way. the aunty went in the morning with the bed coffee.

the man would not wake up.

it shocked the family, like all sudden deaths do. it does not prepare the family for the grief, but the guy who went, sure went away in his sleep.

i agree with you 100% re the pain inflicted through unnatural deaths. there are quite a few horrifying stories out here in canada, about cruelties inflicted by perverts and sadists, on innocent victims.

canada does not have the death penalty. so the maximum someone can get is life, which is 25 years, with parole eligibility after 16 years, which is nothing, in terms of punishment.

very rarely, a life imprisonment means that in canada. also, when i see the prisons - they are clean, each cell has its hot balanced meals at regular intervals, clean sheets, own toilet, t.v., library, mandatory exercises daily, etc.. i sometimes wonder if this alternate lifestyle can be something that can be sought after :)

unlike our jails, with heat infested mosquitoes swarming around a bucket full of human waste, which has to be shared by dozen or so inmates, in a 10 ft x 10 ft room.

though i think, our freedom fighters were housed in better jails, with more privacy, to think, read and write. still only bucket for waste gathering though :(
 
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