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Media Bias - Total and Absolute Desperation to give clean chit on the Rafale Deal !!!

Jaykay767

Well-known member
LOL. So much for the media bias charges by the right wingers.

Hilarious to see the various anchors in total and absolute desperation to give a clean chit for the govt. I mean the media is supposed to question and hold the govt feet to fire.

On the other hand, they are deperate to give a clean chit. They are shocked that Rahul and opposition are unable to understand that no one should question this govt. I mean we can question all other govts in india and the world but not the current govt. LOL.

They are furious and upset with N Ram who is a world leader in journalism going on a spree of revelations on the rafale deal. Now his analysis are always well researched and verified.

For people like me who are NOT wedded to any ideology and party, it is crazy interesting times. And with N Ram and others saying, more to come, all of us are waiting to hear more on this subject !!
 
In matter of Nations Security, ideologies do not count. Nor I would be carried away by CAG's revelations that current Rafale deal is cheaper than earlier deal. Unfortunately none of the politicians are emphasising on our defense preparedness. The truth is that our Airforce fleet is not only getting depleted but more and more outdated. Any specialist can tell that in Air Superiority, our adversaries who started way below us are now miles ahead of us. To compound our woes, our Scientists, Engineers from Govt Labs and PSU's terribly let us down in not designing and producing the kind of Aircraft our forces needs. In such a grave situation, I think our PM took a bold decision to buy the Aircraft. Even if its costlier by several times we should not crib as desperate situation requires desperate response. Since our Govt. Scientists and engineers failed, there is no harm in trying out private sector to develop.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Not denying any of this. But the way the media is going hammer and tong to hush up this deal only raises more doubts in the minds of people.

The way the govt handled this issue has raised more and more questions. It has been caught up in its own web.

If HaL is not competent, then going to a debt ridden entrepreneur is not the answer.

If urgency was the issue, then cancelling a almost done deal and starting afresh is not the answer.

If price was cheaper, then hiding behind the secrecy clause is not the answer. No one is saying disclose it publicly. But the price could have been shared with key opposition leaders.

If honesty is the key, then dropping anti corruption clauses raises serious doubts.

If respecting armed forces is the key, the bypassing and conducting a parallel negation is not the answer.

Etc..

This has seriously eroded the credibility of the govt and it is showing in the drop in the pre poll surveys apart from the economic issues.

And with more to come, it will be interesting to see how far this goes !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
My assessment on why the "Modi Sarkar faltered so badly" months back is spot on !

The entire Delhi bureaucracy ganged up and frustrated this govt at every step leading to this mess. Due to this internal war, the PMO bypassed the bureaucracy, and by directly negotiating such a complex deal, has totally messed up against a seasoned French team.

And a shrewd opposition led by Pappu aka Rahul have brilliantly capitalised it.

And that's why most of the schemes by this govt has had no impact on the ground. The bureaucracy ensured all these schemes are a total failure forcing the govt to act on the institutions and the resulting open backlash !!

What a mess !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
This is where Rahul has shown his mettle ! And many are not going to like my comments here.

Rahul has shown to be a brilliant strategist and he took on this govt when all the others were running helter and skelter.

He stitched a broad alliance with all the parities, he has positive relationship with all leaders. And even when KCR called him names, he did not retaliate knowing he will need support.

Mamata and Mayavati kept him at a distance as they were pitching for the next PM. But Rahul kept cool and sent positive messages to both of them. Sent his leaders to their rallies. Even though bsp and sp did not invite him for a broad alliance, he said he was open to it.

He brought in Priyanka despite the threat of a second power centre. And the congress party workers are rallying again. The crowd that surrounded Rahul and Priyanka was unprecented. And who would have thought, that these 2 will be the centre stage in Indian politics.

And single handledly ratcheted up the pressure on rafale putting the govt totally on the backfoot.

So a lot of Indians have moved on from this govt, to Rahul and mahatatbhandan. And this is due to the massive economic failures and not due to political loyalty or ideologies.

And I am impressed with what I see of Rahul and given his astuteness, I feel he may really do well as a PM.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
There have often been arms deals that are controversial in India. To cite just one — the Bofors gun, purchased during Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi's reign.


The Bofors later turned out to be the Indian military's ace during the 1999 Kargil war.

Rafale deal beats all, not merely because of the price, but more so because of the controversies involved in the purchase.

Even the apex court is under fire as it relied on the government arguments apparently submitted on an unsigned piece of paper.

On its part, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has not yet initiated any investigation into the deal. Public-minded personnel have also not been allowed to place their own investigations before the CBI. On February 12, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) was to submit an audit report. But more confusing is the CAG's likely report which was discredited after the Supreme Court mistakenly cited it, before it was made public, seemingly to clear the government of any wrongdoing.

Consequently, the issue is mired in partisan debates, ranging from television news, references to Parliament discussions, government and BJP spokespersons.

This confusion further confuses the Rafale deal with technical and procedural jargon. With all this, there is considerable chaos, further complicated by reported procedural violations leaked to allegedly toe the line of powerful decision-makers in the Prime Minister's Office. Matters are so tangled that the actual numbers of Rafale aircrafts in two different deals, at two different times, has become both confused and controversial.

For example, PM Modi's reportedly unilateral decision to replace the acquisition of 126 Rafales with the procurement of 36 Rafales took both the Indian Air Force and Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar by surprise.

To my mind, this deal appears dubious. Arms expert Ajai Shukla, in an article published in the Business Standard, revealed that Dassault had bid €19.5 billion for 126 Rafales in 2007, some 40 per cent less per fighter than what the IAF is paying in the €7.87 billion contract for 36 Rafales, signed in 2016.

Further, the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contract, including extra benefits of technology transfer to build 108 Rafales in India, would have galvanised India's aerospace industry. Earlier, the Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman had apparently promised to make these figures public, but then reportedly backtracked, citing a secrecy agreement with France.

More worrisome are alleged attempts to weaken the Rafale deal.

The government has reportedly diluted the earlier 36-Rafale contract document, doing away with mandatory penalties for the use of "undue influence," use of "agents/agency/commission" and other mandatory clauses stipulated in the Defence Procurement Procedure, the rulebook for defence capital procurements. Ajai Shukla raises troubling questions — did the PMO intervene to remove an anti-corruption clause from a contract the Cabinet had already cleared? Was the "integrity clause" asked to be removed by the French? It doesn't appear to be so, as in this case, he claims, it is clear that the PMO apparently wanted the "anti-corruption clause removed."

However, Ajai Shukla also argues that despite further revelations, only a money trail would establish any criminal culpability in the Rafale affair.

Already, massive damage has been done. It is conceivable that we may never know whether there has been any corruption in the Rafale deal. Yet, Shukla puts it, "But the evidence of unforgivable incompetence is everywhere."

 

prasad1

Well-known member
In matter of Nations Security, ideologies do not count.
I agree with that position.
Since our Govt. Scientists and engineers failed, there is no harm in trying out private sector to develop.
That is not wrong either.
Instead of developing the private sector, this is crony capitalism.
Anil Ambani's Defense sector did not exist before this deal.
Our HAL, in spite of its trouble (that should be rectified, but that is a separate story), was not considered.
Why was not a tender floated, like any other government contract? Why this friend should profit at the expense of Our defense, that too with a person who is ineffective in managing his own company. He just defaulted on Rs 400 crore loan.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Some background information.

On 31 January 2012, the Indian Ministry of Defence announced that Dassault Rafale had won the MMRCA competition to supply the Indian Air Force with 126 aircraft, along with an option for 63 additional aircraft. The first 18 aircraft were to be supplied by Dassault Aviation fully built and the remaining 108 aircraft were to be manufactured under license by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) with transfer of technology from Dassault. Rafale was chosen as the lowest bidder based on life-cycle cost, which is a combination of cost of acquisition, operating cost over a duration of 40 years and cost of transfer of technology.

Then Congress lost and BJP took over the ministry.

As disagreements over cost and warranty for aircraft produced by HAL continued, defence minister Manohar Parrikar said that the Sukhoi Su-30MKI could be acquired as an alternative to Rafale. Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha disagreed, saying that the Su-30MKI and Rafale had different capabilities, they were not interchangeable. In February 2015, it was reported that the Rafale purchase was headed for cancellation as it had been misjudged to be the lowest bidder due to deficiencies in Dassault's bid. On 25 March 2015, Dassault's CEO Éric Trappier said that although the deal was taking time, it was "95 percent completed".



During an official visit to France in April 2015, Indian prime minister Narendra Modi announced that India would acquire 36 fully built Rafales citing "critical operational necessity".

The agreement included a 50% "offset clause", which required the companies involved in the agreement—primarily Dassault, Thales, Safran and MBDA—to invest 50% of the contract value (approximately €3.9 billion or ₹30,000 crore) back into India, with 30% of the total (approximately €1.2 billion or ₹9,000 crore) reserved for the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). Of this 50%, 74% (approximately €2.9 billion or ₹22,200 crore) was to come from purchase of goods and services from India, which was expected to bolster the government's efforts to promote Indian defence equipment manufacturers.

On 3 October 2016, Reliance Group and Dassault Aviation issued a joint statement announcing the creation of a 51:49 joint venture named Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) to focus on aero structures, electronics and engine components as well as to foster research and development projects under the "Indigenously Designed Developed and Manufactured" (IDDM) initiative. Dassault intended to invest in excess of €100 million in the joint venture as part of its offset obligations. The joint venture was to manufacture components for Legacy Falcon 2000 series of jets such as the nose, cockpit and doors at the DRAL facility in Nagpur starting from January 2018.

The day after the signing of IGA between France and India, Indian National Congress spokesperson Manish Tewari asked for details of the agreement to be made public and questioned if there was an escalation of per-aircraft cost from ₹715 crore to ₹1,600 crore.

In November 2017, Congress leader Randeep Surjewala alleged that HAL was bypassed in the Rafale contract and questioned the presence of Anil Ambani in France during Modi's announcement to acquire 36 fully built aircraft. He also alleged that the necessary government approvals were not obtained before the formation of joint venture between Dassault Aviation and Reliance Defence Limited. Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi accused Indian prime minister Narendra Modi of dropping the requirement of licensed manufacture by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to ensure that the privately-owned Reliance Defence Limited obtained an offset contract from Dassault.

Anil Ambani's Reliance Defence Limited denied the allegations by Surjewala and released a statement that he was present as a member of Indo-French CEO forum. The statement added that no government approvals were required for foreign investments of up to 49%.

Former French President François Hollande has been quoted by an article on a French Mediapart, an online investigative and opinion journal as stating that the Indian government had asked the French government to nominate Anil Ambani's Reliance Defence Ltd. as its India partner in the Rafale deal, but later Hollande clarified that "it on the sidelines of a meeting in Canada on Friday that France “did not choose Reliance in any way.” When asked whether India had put pressure on Reliance and Dassault to work together, Mr. Hollande said he was unaware and “only Dassault can comment on this.” as reported by AFP.


It smells of a scandal.
The man like Modi, who is not corrupt and fights corruption every day, this is a black mark.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
This is where N Rams article is spot on. PMO conducted parallel negotiation to bypass defence ministry objections to help a close friend embroiled in debt. And removed anti corruption clauses to ensure he is not questioned later.

This is the story in itself and complete. Others calling this over reaction is not relevant. People in democracy will decide that.

In this saga, everyone associated is losing their credibility !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
On an different note, I am really shocked to see that racist, junk, thug may go scot free from all the allegations based on the senate committee reports. His crap team has really covered him well like a mafia boss.

As they say, the long time crook always gets away and the first time offender gets caught !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Astrologically, with both surya grahanam and Chandra grahanam, a sudden regime change is inevitable. I thought that crap will get impeached but the snivelling thug is escaping right in front of our eyes,

And that regime change now most likely will happen in india !
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Even if its costlier by several times we should not crib as desperate situation requires desperate response.
Sorry, this is unacceptable ! No way, can we pay higher than the cost paid by other countries, forget about several times !!

Anyways, the delivery is happening only in 2020, so where is the urgency ?? If the planes had been delivered in 2015 or 2016 itself, then this is even remotely acceptable.
 
The challenge to be tackled is - how to equip our fleet with reasonable deterrence. I think that there are some misinformation which needs to be addressed.
  1. Our Air power is not only getting depleted, but technically inferior to our adversaries.
  2. How come our neighbouring countries who were technically way down below us few decades back are miles ahead of us in the present?
  3. Despite being over 70 years Company, and several Licensed production, HAL has neither shown leadership in Aeronautics nor acquired learning which are critical to maintain and develop the Aircraft design expertise.
  4. The fact is that all licensed production of Aircraft like MIG's, Sukhoi's etc are atleast 30% expensive than the imported Aircraft.
  5. As I see, Anil Ambani's Aerospace venture is an joint venture with Dassault and proxy of Dassault in India.
  6. To give eg. when TATA's entered watch making, it was new and had no prior experience, but today it is number one in India. Similarly, l&t, TATA etc entered Aerospace field without any prior experience. Hence more than Experience what counts is present capability and innovation coupled with timely deliveries.
  7. For whatever reasons the present set up in our country is a proven failure.

Hence, I feel that defence purchases must be depoliticed and independended authority must be empowered to take quick decisions instead of current methods. This is because a mere news of likely purchase of Aircraft or weapons is enough for manufacturers to not only exponentially jack up prices, but try unethical practices.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
  1. To give eg. when TATA's entered watch making, it was new and had no prior experience, but today it is number one in India. Similarly, l&t, TATA etc entered Aerospace field without any prior experience. Hence more than Experience what counts is present capability and innovation coupled with timely deliveries.
I am from Jamshedpur (Just to be clear).
To compare TATA to Anil Ambani is like comparing Ganga to Cooum.
Tata's do not file for bankruptcies. They treat their employees as family. Their products are of the highest quality.
Reliance Defence was created by Modi (Ambani), and Dassault was forced to accept them (Ask the French PM at the time of accord). Reliance has no experience in Aerospace.
 

margam

Member
LOL. So much for the media bias charges by the right wingers.

Hilarious to see the various anchors in total and absolute desperation to give a clean chit for the govt. I mean the media is supposed to question and hold the govt feet to fire.

On the other hand, they are deperate to give a clean chit. They are shocked that Rahul and opposition are unable to understand that no one should question this govt. I mean we can question all other govts in india and the world but not the current govt. LOL.

They are furious and upset with N Ram who is a world leader in journalism going on a spree of revelations on the rafale deal. Now his analysis are always well researched and verified.

For people like me who are NOT wedded to any ideology and party, it is crazy interesting times. And with N Ram and others saying, more to come, all of us are waiting to hear more on this subject !!
I think before we talk about this we should be talking about something serious on Nations security. I copying some of the tweet messages on links of few leaders with ISI. If we do not unite as a nation to identify traitors India will soon be sold

Check out @DrGPradhan’s Tweet:
Dear @RahulGandhi my 1st question of 2019, Why did you meet Asim Munir, Director-General of Inter-Services Intelligence? What do you want from ISI or what ISI need from you?

Should i tell you venue, time and date if ur memory is short https://t.co/Dg8KqtdtPB

Check out @DrGPradhan’s Tweet:
Check out @DrGPradhan’s Tweet:

Also one should take a balanced view understanding both sides before jumping in to any conclusion. I do not support any party but am concerned about India as a nation. I have lot of friends in the Indian Army and one of the messages from another group I got shows a video of people like RG MKAIYAR etc in a dargah watching oath taking that they would ruin India. Another message quoting Ex Commissioner of Police Vijaya Kumar in tamil pasted below. I am not sure of authenticity of the message but above tweets and current happennings in India makes one believe that there could be some truth in it as well. We being a educated society should not be dragged in by fanaticism

முதலில் 350 கிலோ வெடிபொருட்கள் என்பது தவறு. 80 கிலோ வெடிபொருட்கள் தான்.

வெடிபொருட்கள் ஒரே நாளில் ஒன்று சேர்க்கப்பட்டதல்ல. சிறிது சிறிதாக 6 மாதங்களாக எல்லை வழியாக சேகரித்துள்ளனர்.

எல்லையில் ஆடு, மாடு மேய்க்கும் சிறுவர் சிறுமியர்களை மூளைச்சலவை செய்து அவர்கள் மூலமாக கடத்தியுள்ளனர்.

வெடிகுண்டு சம்பவம் நடந்த இடமும் பாதுகாக்கப்பட்ட பகுதி அல்ல. ராணுவ வாகனங்களின் மீது அடிக்கடி கல்லெறி சம்பவம் நடக்கும் மக்கள் நடமாட்டமும் போக்குவரத்தும் மிகுந்த பகுதியாகும்.

வீரர்கள் பயணித்தது குண்டு துளைக்காத வாகனங்கள் தான் என்றாலும் 80 கிலோ வெடிபொருட்கள் வெடித்து சிதறும் போது எப்பேர்பட்ட வாகனமாக இருந்தாலும் வெடித்து சிதறும்.

எல்லையில் பணிபுரியும் வீரர்களுக்கு உற்சாகம் அளிக்கும் வகையில் 6 மாதத்திற்கு ஒருமுறை அவர்களை அழைத்து விருந்து வைத்து மேற்கொண்டு சில நுணுக்கங்களை பரிமாறி மேலும் பனிக்காலத்தில் அவர்கள் சந்தித்த இடர்களையும் பிரச்சினைகளையும் ஆலோசித்து விட்டு மீண்டும் வழியனுப்புவோம்.

அதுபோக விடுமுறை நாட்களை முடித்து விட்டு பணிக்கு திரும்புவோர் அனைவரையும் சேர்த்து 2000 பேர் எல்லை பணிக்கு திரும்பும் வேளையில் இது போன்ற சம்பவம் நடந்துள்ளது.

உள்ளூரில் வசிக்கும் இஸ்லாமிய மக்களின் உதவியின்றி இது நடக்காது.

எனது அதிகாரத்தை மீறி ஒரு வார்த்தை சொல்கிறேன். காங்கிரஸ் முன்னணி தலைவர்களில் ஒருவரான மணிசங்கர் ஐயர் ஜெய்ஷி முகமது தீவிரவாத இயக்கத்திடம் மோடி ஆட்சியை கவிழ்க்க உதவுமாறு பாகிஸ்தான் தொலைக்காட்சி வாயிலாக கேட்டுக்கொண்டிருந்தார். அதன் அடிப்படையிலேயே இந்த குண்டு வெடிப்பு சம்பவத்தை ஜெய்ஷி அமைப்பு அரங்கேற்றியுள்ளது என்பதை பாதுகாப்பு படை முதற்கட்ட விசாரணையில் கண்டுபிடித்துள்ளது.

கமிஷ்னர் விஜயகுமார்
காஷ்மீர் ஆளுனரின் ஆலோசகர்

இவர் சந்தனக்கடத்தல் வீரப்பனை சுட்டு கொன்றவர் என்பதும் சட்டீஸ்கர்,ஜார்க்கண்ட் மாநிலங்களில் நக்சல் ஆதிக்கத்தை கட்டுப்படுத்தியவர் என்பதும் குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது.
 

Veeravv

Member
LOL. So much for the media bias charges by the right wingers.

Hilarious to see the various anchors in total and absolute desperation to give a clean chit for the govt. I mean the media is supposed to question and hold the govt feet to fire.

On the other hand, they are deperate to give a clean chit. They are shocked that Rahul and opposition are unable to understand that no one should question this govt. I mean we can question all other govts in india and the world but not the current govt. LOL.

They are furious and upset with N Ram who is a world leader in journalism going on a spree of revelations on the rafale deal. Now his analysis are always well researched and verified.

For people like me who are NOT wedded to any ideology and party, it is crazy interesting times. And with N Ram and others saying, more to come, all of us are waiting to hear more on this subject !!
 

vrkmmol

Member
In matter of Nations Security, ideologies do not count. Nor I would be carried away by CAG's revelations that current Rafale deal is cheaper than earlier deal. Unfortunately none of the politicians are emphasising on our defense preparedness. The truth is that our Airforce fleet is not only getting depleted but more and more outdated. Any specialist can tell that in Air Superiority, our adversaries who started way below us are now miles ahead of us. To compound our woes, our Scientists, Engineers from Govt Labs and PSU's terribly let us down in not designing and producing the kind of Aircraft our forces needs. In such a grave situation, I think our PM took a bold decision to buy the Aircraft. Even if its costlier by several times we should not crib as desperate situation requires desperate response. Since our Govt. Scientists and engineers failed, there is no harm in trying out private sector to develop.
If PSUs are ineffective and if their Scientists are not innovative please pull up the concerned ministers for the minister's ineffectiveness
 
Not denying any of this. But the way the media is going hammer and tong to hush up this deal only raises more doubts in the minds of people.

The way the govt handled this issue has raised more and more questions. It has been caught up in its own web.

If HaL is not competent, then going to a debt ridden entrepreneur is not the answer.

If urgency was the issue, then cancelling a almost done deal and starting afresh is not the answer.

If price was cheaper, then hiding behind the secrecy clause is not the answer. No one is saying disclose it publicly. But the price could have been shared with key opposition leaders.

If honesty is the key, then dropping anti corruption clauses raises serious doubts.

If respecting armed forces is the key, the bypassing and conducting a parallel negation is not the answer.

Etc..

This has seriously eroded the credibility of the govt and it is showing in the drop in the pre poll surveys apart from the economic issues.

And with more to come, it will be interesting to see how far this goes !!
Instead of developing the private sector, this is crony capitalism.
Anil Ambani's Defense sector did not exist before this deal.
Our HAL, in spite of its trouble (that should be rectified, but that is a separate story), was not considered.
Why was not a tender floated, like any other government contract? Why this friend should profit at the expense of Our defense, that too with a person who is ineffective in managing his own company. He just defaulted on Rs 400 crore loan.
 
Our government can NOT design and develop aircrafts.Our HAL,NAL,ISRO are utter failiures.So as our IIT and IISc professors.They are good for nothing!
Now since we can NOT design we have no choice other than buying from foreign country.Instead of thinking about the corruption in the deal it is better to question why we can NOT design our own aircrafts.We can save a huge amount.
To realize this needs bold decisions including firing incompetent government servants.
 

margam

Member
LOL. So much for the media bias charges by the right wingers.

Hilarious to see the various anchors in total and absolute desperation to give a clean chit for the govt. I mean the media is supposed to question and hold the govt feet to fire.

On the other hand, they are deperate to give a clean chit. They are shocked that Rahul and opposition are unable to understand that no one should question this govt. I mean we can question all other govts in india and the world but not the current govt. LOL.

They are furious and upset with N Ram who is a world leader in journalism going on a spree of revelations on the rafale deal. Now his analysis are always well researched and verified.

For people like me who are NOT wedded to any ideology and party, it is crazy interesting times. And with N Ram and others saying, more to come, all of us are waiting to hear more on this subject !!
Please read this. This indicates the evidences posted in Hindu is done with ulterior motive by doctoring the documents. I think we should not be carried away with such doctored documents.

The Hindu not only cropped the Rafale dissent note, but also had digitally manipulated it https://www.opindia.com/2019/02/the-hindu-not-only-cropped-the-rafale-dissent-note-but-also-had-digitally-manipulated-it/
 

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