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Maya revisited

sravna

Well-known member
Maya is such an enchanting concept I am revisiting it for the umpteenth time.

The ultimate reality of nirguna brahman is genderless that is neither feminine nor masculine and without attributes in general. The projection of nirguna brahman which means a lesser reality is saguna brahman. It is one with the presence of both feminine and masculine aspects and in general with attributes.

The feminine aspect is called maya or Shakthi and the masculine aspect which represents the trimurthis. Shakthi also separates as tridevis.

Maya is the actual blissful and self conscious energy and male aspect is the full experiencer of that blissful energy. At the nirguna brahman level the experiencer and the experienced are the same. At the level of saguna brahman the experiencer and experienced separate. Masculine and feminine qualities and forms are created.

The genderless nirguna brahman is projected as androgynous saguna brahman
The mother of all veils is created. One that veils the oneness of the male and female aspects.

Does the male aspect veil or the female aspect veil? Before answering that what can be veiled? The male consciousness or the feminine energy can both be veiled. The proactive aspect is the feminine aspect as the experiencer or the male aspect is a passive aspect. So one that veils both the experiencer and itself has to be maya which is the feminine aspect.

Once the experiencer is veiled by the power of maya He becomes proactive and begins to think and act. The concept of veiling is enacted and saguna brahman thinks Let me be many and thus creation happens through the power of maya.

The material world is one of veils and its purpose is to come out of the veils of maya and attain the state of oneness and stillness with nirguna brahman.

Renuka and others what do you think?
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
What is the take of this forum about this survey?

Over 30% women from 14 states back men beating wives: Survey​

Source: PTI - Edited By: Hemant Waje

November 28, 2021

Over 30 per cent women from 14 of the 18 states and Union Territories that were surveyed justify men beating their wives under certain circumstances, while lesser percentage of men rationalised such behaviour, according to the recent National Family Health Survey.

According to NHFS-5, over 75 per cent women justified men beating their wives in three states -- Telangana (84 per cent), Andhra Pradesh (84 per cent) and Karnataka (77 per cent).

Manipur (66 per cent), Kerala (52 per cent), Jammu and Kashmir (49 per cent), Maharashtra (44 per cent) and West Bengal (42 per cent) were the other states and Union Territory where a large number of women justified men beating their wives.

To a question by the NFHS, "In your opinion, is a husband justified in hitting or beating his wife...?", over 30 per cent women from as many as 14 states and Union Territories said, "yes".

The survey put forward the probable circumstances under which a husband beats his wife: if he suspects her of being unfaithful; if she disrespects in-laws; if she argues with him; if she refuses to have sex with him; if she goes out without informing him; if she neglects the house or the children; if she doesn't cook good food.

The most common reasons given by the respondents to justify beating were neglecting the house or children and showing disrespect to in-laws.

Of the 18 states, women respondents in 13 -- Himachal Pradesh, Kerala, Manipur, Gujarat, Nagaland, Goa, Bihar, Karnataka, Assam, Maharashtra, Telangana, Nagaland and West Bengal -- cited 'disrespect to in-laws' as the main reason to justify beating.

The lowest population of women that justified beating by husbands was in Himachal Pradesh (14.8 per cent).

Among men, 81.9 per cent respondents from Karnataka said such behaviour is justified as against 14.2 per cent in Himachal Pradesh.

Ushasree, director of 'Roshni', a Hyderabad-based NGO which provides counselling and other services to those in emotional distress, said her organisation has seen a rise in sexual abuse and domestic violence during COVID-19.

"Some men appear to vent their frustration, caused by loss of income and other reasons due to the pandemic, on their family members," she said.

"There is an increase in the number of calls we received because friction has grown among family members as they stay confined within four walls round-the-clock due to the pandemic," she said.

Though the number of calls is on the decline of late, women are generally facing domestic violence, she said.

Roshni is a member of Befrienders Worldwide, an international organisation. It has two helpline numbers, 040-6620 2001 and 040-6620 2000, she said.

In Telangana, where as much as 84 per cent women justified beating by their husbands, the government runs various schemes, some with the support of the central government, for protection and empowerment of women.

The schemes include Sakhi - One Stop Centre, Women Helpline - 181, Swadhar Greh and Ujjwala Homes, Scheme for Adolescent Girls (SAG) and Mahila Shakti Kendras, official sources said.

Amita Pitre, lead specialist, Gender Justice: Oxfam India, said the organisation's work in five states shows that harmful gender social norms help justify violence against women and girls.

"They are the tools of patriarchy and women are as much a part of the patriarchal society as men. In fact, women are trained in society to be strict guardians of these norms, especially for daughters and daughters-in-laws, and that is one of the most common ways they are perpetuated," Pitre told PTI.

"All the reasons cited to justify violence on women are a product of these norms: if she neglects the house or children, if she refuses to have sex with the husband, if she doesn't cook food properly... all these define how women should behave in society. It is as important that women move away from such thinking as men if gender-based violence against women has to stop," she said.
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
What is the take of this forum about this survey?

Over 30% women from 14 states back men beating wives: Survey​

Source: PTI - Edited By: Hemant Waje

November 28, 2021

Over 30 per cent women from 14 of the 18 states and Union Territories that were surveyed justify men beating their wives under certain circumstances, while lesser percentage of men rationalised such behaviour, according to the recent National Family Health Survey.

According to NHFS-5, over 75 per cent women justified men beating their wives in three states -- Telangana (84 per cent), Andhra Pradesh (84 per cent) and Karnataka (77 per cent).

Manipur (66 per cent), Kerala (52 per cent), Jammu and Kashmir (49 per cent), Maharashtra (44 per cent) and West Bengal (42 per cent) were the other states and Union Territory where a large number of women justified men beating their wives.

To a question by the NFHS, "In your opinion, is a husband justified in hitting or beating his wife...?", over 30 per cent women from as many as 14 states and Union Territories said, "yes".

The survey put forward the probable circumstances under which a husband beats his wife: if he suspects her of being unfaithful; if she disrespects in-laws; if she argues with him; if she refuses to have sex with him; if she goes out without informing him; if she neglects the house or the children; if she doesn't cook good food.

The most common reasons given by the respondents to justify beating were neglecting the house or children and showing disrespect to in-laws.

Of the 18 states, women respondents in 13 -- Himachal Pradesh, Kerala, Manipur, Gujarat, Nagaland, Goa, Bihar, Karnataka, Assam, Maharashtra, Telangana, Nagaland and West Bengal -- cited 'disrespect to in-laws' as the main reason to justify beating.

The lowest population of women that justified beating by husbands was in Himachal Pradesh (14.8 per cent).

Among men, 81.9 per cent respondents from Karnataka said such behaviour is justified as against 14.2 per cent in Himachal Pradesh.

Ushasree, director of 'Roshni', a Hyderabad-based NGO which provides counselling and other services to those in emotional distress, said her organisation has seen a rise in sexual abuse and domestic violence during COVID-19.

"Some men appear to vent their frustration, caused by loss of income and other reasons due to the pandemic, on their family members," she said.

"There is an increase in the number of calls we received because friction has grown among family members as they stay confined within four walls round-the-clock due to the pandemic," she said.

Though the number of calls is on the decline of late, women are generally facing domestic violence, she said.

Roshni is a member of Befrienders Worldwide, an international organisation. It has two helpline numbers, 040-6620 2001 and 040-6620 2000, she said.

In Telangana, where as much as 84 per cent women justified beating by their husbands, the government runs various schemes, some with the support of the central government, for protection and empowerment of women.

The schemes include Sakhi - One Stop Centre, Women Helpline - 181, Swadhar Greh and Ujjwala Homes, Scheme for Adolescent Girls (SAG) and Mahila Shakti Kendras, official sources said.

Amita Pitre, lead specialist, Gender Justice: Oxfam India, said the organisation's work in five states shows that harmful gender social norms help justify violence against women and girls.

"They are the tools of patriarchy and women are as much a part of the patriarchal society as men. In fact, women are trained in society to be strict guardians of these norms, especially for daughters and daughters-in-laws, and that is one of the most common ways they are perpetuated," Pitre told PTI.

"All the reasons cited to justify violence on women are a product of these norms: if she neglects the house or children, if she refuses to have sex with the husband, if she doesn't cook food properly... all these define how women should behave in society. It is as important that women move away from such thinking as men if gender-based violence against women has to stop," she said.
What is the take of this forum about this survey?

Over 30% women from 14 states back men beating wives: Survey​

Source: PTI - Edited By: Hemant Waje

November 28, 2021

Over 30 per cent women from 14 of the 18 states and Union Territories that were surveyed justify men beating their wives under certain circumstances, while lesser percentage of men rationalised such behaviour, according to the recent National Family Health Survey.

According to NHFS-5, over 75 per cent women justified men beating their wives in three states -- Telangana (84 per cent), Andhra Pradesh (84 per cent) and Karnataka (77 per cent).

Manipur (66 per cent), Kerala (52 per cent), Jammu and Kashmir (49 per cent), Maharashtra (44 per cent) and West Bengal (42 per cent) were the other states and Union Territory where a large number of women justified men beating their wives.

To a question by the NFHS, "In your opinion, is a husband justified in hitting or beating his wife...?", over 30 per cent women from as many as 14 states and Union Territories said, "yes".

The survey put forward the probable circumstances under which a husband beats his wife: if he suspects her of being unfaithful; if she disrespects in-laws; if she argues with him; if she refuses to have sex with him; if she goes out without informing him; if she neglects the house or the children; if she doesn't cook good food.

The most common reasons given by the respondents to justify beating were neglecting the house or children and showing disrespect to in-laws.

Of the 18 states, women respondents in 13 -- Himachal Pradesh, Kerala, Manipur, Gujarat, Nagaland, Goa, Bihar, Karnataka, Assam, Maharashtra, Telangana, Nagaland and West Bengal -- cited 'disrespect to in-laws' as the main reason to justify beating.

The lowest population of women that justified beating by husbands was in Himachal Pradesh (14.8 per cent).

Among men, 81.9 per cent respondents from Karnataka said such behaviour is justified as against 14.2 per cent in Himachal Pradesh.

Ushasree, director of 'Roshni', a Hyderabad-based NGO which provides counselling and other services to those in emotional distress, said her organisation has seen a rise in sexual abuse and domestic violence during COVID-19.

"Some men appear to vent their frustration, caused by loss of income and other reasons due to the pandemic, on their family members," she said.

"There is an increase in the number of calls we received because friction has grown among family members as they stay confined within four walls round-the-clock due to the pandemic," she said.

Though the number of calls is on the decline of late, women are generally facing domestic violence, she said.

Roshni is a member of Befrienders Worldwide, an international organisation. It has two helpline numbers, 040-6620 2001 and 040-6620 2000, she said.

In Telangana, where as much as 84 per cent women justified beating by their husbands, the government runs various schemes, some with the support of the central government, for protection and empowerment of women.

The schemes include Sakhi - One Stop Centre, Women Helpline - 181, Swadhar Greh and Ujjwala Homes, Scheme for Adolescent Girls (SAG) and Mahila Shakti Kendras, official sources said.

Amita Pitre, lead specialist, Gender Justice: Oxfam India, said the organisation's work in five states shows that harmful gender social norms help justify violence against women and girls.

"They are the tools of patriarchy and women are as much a part of the patriarchal society as men. In fact, women are trained in society to be strict guardians of these norms, especially for daughters and daughters-in-laws, and that is one of the most common ways they are perpetuated," Pitre told PTI.

"All the reasons cited to justify violence on women are a product of these norms: if she neglects the house or children, if she refuses to have sex with the husband, if she doesn't cook food properly... all these define how women should behave in society. It is as important that women move away from such thinking as men if gender-based violence against women has to stop," she said.
Well said. Women have to understand their own strengths. They do not have to be subordinate to men. But that should not be by competing with men but by bringing out women's unique qualities. Using the concept of the OP I would say they should be the energy of the men and try to shape them in the right way.

Many may not agree with this. But I believe this will work out in the long run in producing harmony for both men and women.
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Is it possible to have the best of both the spiritual and material world? Yes if you are righteous in essence. You may to be allowed to enjoy material things creating a boundary within which you can have the material enjoyment. This boundary reflects that within it you are in self control crossing which things go out of control.

For perfect enjoyment or having the best of both the worlds I believe the above approach helps.

I believe the above is even above detachment with the benefits of material enjoyment. If you are really in control you don't seek material enjoyment but just enjoy the moment. Right things spontaneously happen.

The master of this approach is Lord Krishna.
 

thebigthinkg

Active member
Maya is such an enchanting concept I am revisiting it for the umpteenth time.

The ultimate reality of nirguna brahman is genderless that is neither feminine nor masculine and without attributes in general. The projection of nirguna brahman which means a lesser reality is saguna brahman. It is one with the presence of both feminine and masculine aspects and in general with attributes.

The feminine aspect is called maya or Shakthi and the masculine aspect which represents the trimurthis. Shakthi also separates as tridevis.

Maya is the actual blissful and self conscious energy and male aspect is the full experiencer of that blissful energy. At the nirguna brahman level the experiencer and the experienced are the same. At the level of saguna brahman the experiencer and experienced separate. Masculine and feminine qualities and forms are created.

The genderless nirguna brahman is projected as androgynous saguna brahman
The mother of all veils is created. One that veils the oneness of the male and female aspects.

Does the male aspect veil or the female aspect veil? Before answering that what can be veiled? The male consciousness or the feminine energy can both be veiled. The proactive aspect is the feminine aspect as the experiencer or the male aspect is a passive aspect. So one that veils both the experiencer and itself has to be maya which is the feminine aspect.

Once the experiencer is veiled by the power of maya He becomes proactive and begins to think and act. The concept of veiling is enacted and saguna brahman thinks Let me be many and thus creation happens through the power of maya.

The material world is one of veils and its purpose is to come out of the veils of maya and attain the state of oneness and stillness with nirguna brahman.

Renuka and others what do you think?
Shankara defines mAyA as
1. That differentiates from that 'one' into multiple including the matter and beings
2. induces errors in perception. for eg none can understand the indepth concept of srutis, but we arrive at different different meanings. some people use wealth to promote the meanings they like
3. even though mAyA keeps differentiating, it also unionizes. for eg. all the pancha-bhutas unionize and create beings. that one is present as the consciousness inside all making them function as one
4. even the homogenous groups are divided by mAyA but they are bound together. for eg. human beings are homogenous but divided into so many groups by family relations, neighborhood relations, country etc etc, but mAyA binds these homogenous groups and introduces concepts such as 'moha', 'pAza', 'lust', 'greed' etc..
5. mAyA creates the difference in perception between Hari and Hara. Hari manifests the jagat, dharma, rta and operates the jagat on these. All the jagat by their buddhi (whatever extent they have) adapts to the dharma and rta. It's like black and white. Hara is white which reflects everything and holds nothing. Hari is black which holds everything. Both are same. but they look different due to mAyA.

 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Shankara defines mAyA as
1. That differentiates from that 'one' into multiple including the matter and beings
2. induces errors in perception. for eg none can understand the indepth concept of srutis, but we arrive at different different meanings. some people use wealth to promote the meanings they like
3. even though mAyA keeps differentiating, it also unionizes. for eg. all the pancha-bhutas unionize and create beings. that one is present as the consciousness inside all making them function as one
4. even the homogenous groups are divided by mAyA but they are bound together. for eg. human beings are homogenous but divided into so many groups by family relations, neighborhood relations, country etc etc, but mAyA binds these homogenous groups and introduces concepts such as 'moha', 'pAza', 'lust', 'greed' etc..
5. mAyA creates the difference in perception between Hari and Hara. Hari manifests the jagat, dharma, rta and operates the jagat on these. All the jagat by their buddhi (whatever extent they have) adapts to the dharma and rta. It's like black and white. Hara is white which reflects everything and holds nothing. Hari is black which holds everything. Both are same. but they look different due to mAyA.

Thank you for the illuminating post Sir
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
When one achieves the self realisation one is at piece with the self and such person looses interest in the material enjoyment/benefits which is temporary. The viel is lifted and one is enlightened and is at ananda which is permanent
True. only very rare person gets this detachement. Others have to go through service first, and proceed to realize what is maya and renounce most of the things and turn inward. So, those who have realized say tings that has to be relaized by others to understand it. "Sweetness" can not be understood unless one has "tasted it". Then the taster gets immersed in i himslef or herself and become Paramajnai. They don't teach to create shishya kothis, rather babble like a madman in delution. Only another who have the same state of mind can understand it. Without self realization, rest is just parroting and regurgitation of hearsay.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Is it possible to have the best of both the spiritual and material world? Yes if you are righteous in essence. You may to be allowed to enjoy material things creating a boundary within which you can have the material enjoyment. This boundary reflects that within it you are in self control crossing which things go out of control.

For perfect enjoyment or having the best of both the worlds I believe the above approach helps.

I believe the above is even above detachment with the benefits of material enjoyment. If you are really in control you don't seek material enjoyment but just enjoy the moment. Right things spontaneously happen.

The master of this approach is Lord Krishna.
You just quoted the Quran about the best of both worlds!!

Quran10:64
For them are good tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. No change is there in the words [i.e., decrees] of God. That is what is the great attainment.
 

thebigthinkg

Active member
When one achieves the self realisation one is at piece with the self and such person looses interest in the material enjoyment/benefits which is temporary. The viel is lifted and one is enlightened and is at ananda which is permanent
Shankara defines this 'realization' and 5 steps towards this realization in sAdhana panchakam.

This realization is in the 5th stanza (pUrnAtma susamikSayatam jagad idam tad avadhitam drStyAm) - be an observer like that purnAtmA and leave the attached perspective of the world.

To be a true observer/witness of ourselves (which we colloquially define as manas- sAksi) with a really detached view is very difficult to achieve. If I put it mahAperiyavA's words, it is the answer to kim samsAre sAram..? (what is the essence of samsAra..?) - 'introspection'.

sAdhana panchakam in tamil, essence in english - with mahaperiyava discourse

(above all is just my understanding).
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Shankara defines this 'realization' and 5 steps towards this realization in sAdhana panchakam.

This realization is in the 5th stanza (pUrnAtma susamikSayatam jagad idam tad avadhitam drStyAm) - be an observer like that purnAtmA and leave the attached perspective of the world.

To be a true observer/witness of ourselves (which we colloquially define as manas- sAksi) with a really detached view is very difficult to achieve. If I put it mahAperiyavA's words, it is the answer to kim samsAre sAram..? (what is the essence of samsAra..?) - 'introspection'.

sAdhana panchakam in tamil, essence in english - with mahaperiyava discourse

(above all is just my understanding).

Thank you for the link Sir
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Sravna,
True power is only through powerlessness.
Care to give your opinion?
Renuka,

A person who has true power by default does not deploy that power without a just cause.
He knows it and others know it. That I think gives him real power.

What do you think?
 
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