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Marriage within same Gothram

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srinivas Sir


SAME GOTHRA MARRIAGE is Legal, Court had ruled 65 years ago.

The essence of the case was whether 'sagotra' marriage or marriage within the same gotra was valid under Hindu custom.
The court initially relied on a landmark 1868 case where the Privy Council had stated, "under the Hindu system of law, clear proof of usage will outweigh the written text of the law". However, a custom, which was at variance with the written text of Hindu law, had to be ancient, certain and reasonable if it was to be recognised by the court.
After going over several court rulings on the evidence to prove a custom, the bench concluded that the marriage in question between a husband and wife belonging to same gotra was valid. This argument could, however, be turned around by the khaps of Haryana to say that it is customary for Jats not to marry within the same gotra.
But, the court anticipated this sort of an argument and garnered textual proof for intra-gotra marriage.

German scholar Max Mueller had defined 'gotras' as descending from eight sages and then branching out to severalfamilies.

The Court, however, referred to eminent scholar P V Kane, author of the 'History of Dharmashastra', who had said:
"The mass of material on 'gotra' and 'pravara' in the sutras, the puranas and digests is so vast and full of contradictions that it is almost an impossible task to reduce it to order and coherence."

On this ground, the court concluded that it was impossible to accept the suggestion that in reference to the Brahmin families of today, their gotras and pravaras represent anything like an unbroken line of descent from the common ancestors indicated by the names of their respective gotras and pravaras. After consulting the texts of Manu and Yajnavalkya, the court observed that the requirements on gotra were recommendatory, rather than mandatory.

Finally, the court stressed on the need of Hindu society and law to keep up with the times. It said, "Courts have to construe the texts of Hindu law in the light of the explanations given by recognised commentators. But it must always be remembered that since the said commentaries were written, several centuries have passed by and during this long period the Hindu mode of life has not remained still or static.

Notions of good social behaviour and the general ideology of the Hindu society have been changing. The custom as to marriages between persons of the same gotra in this case is an eloquent instance in point."

Same-gotra marriage legal, court had ruled 65 years ago - Times Of India
 
Dear P J sir,

Most of us Non Brahmins of South Indian origin do not know our Gotra(if any!) and we still get married.

For me since I have no idea what my Gotra is(if any)..as long the person I married did not share same DNA with me that would be suffice.

I always wondered when NB Tamilians are generally classified as Shiva Gotra for formalities sake then how do NB Tamilians in India see Gotra when they marry.
Won't it be Shiva Gotra marrying Shiva Gotra hence Sagotra?

BTW do NB Tamilians actually have a Gotra??
 
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Dear P J sir,

Most of us Non Brahmins of South Indian origin do not know our Gotra(if any!) and we still get married.

For me since I have no idea what my Gotra is(if any)..as long the person I married did not share same DNA with me that would be suffice.

I always wondered when NB Tamilians are generally classified as Shiva Gotra for formalities sake then how do NB Tamilians in India see Gotra when they marry.
Won't it be Shiva Gotra marrying Shiva Gotra hence Sagotra?

BTW do NB Tamilians actually have a Gotra??

renukaji

I have seen many telling gurukal in Temple ' Shiva Gothra' when doing Archanai,
When a caste less society is the ultimate aim of every society, clinging to Gothram is pushing the whole idea backwards.
 
Namaste renukaji,

...as long the person I married did not share same DNA with me that would be suffice...

Can the DNAs from two individuals be same ?

Does this rule is (DNAs from two individuals being same) found in other species (like Cat, Dogs, Cattle etc.,) as well ?

Is there a detailed scientific study ?

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam
 
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Thinking of cats and dogs, I am reminded of a joke!

A kid had two kittens as pets of which one was a male and the other female! When his mom wanted to give

them away saying that this pair will produce lot of kittens soon and the house will be full of their population!

The kid told promptly, 'No mom! It won't happen! They are brother and sister!!' :D
 
Sagotra marriages may be performed as exceptional cases if the necessary prAyascitta is performed by both the bride and the bridegroom (i.e., wife & husband).

"Sagotra Kanyaa Vivaha Prayaschitta: In the event of wedding between Sagotraas and Sa Pravara either out of ignorance or with full knowledge, the least that has to be done to leave that bride and perform Chandrayana Prayaschitta. If this fact was already known before the wedding then the Prayaschitta be doubled. Even the bride has to observe half of the Prayaschitta. Details of Chandrayana Vrata Vidhi have been mentioned in the foregoing pages. Abandoning the wife on this count of Sagotra-Sapravara is not so much in terms of the observance of house hold duties as to forsake her for performing Punya Karyas including sleeping together and begetting children unless the Prayaschittha is duly executed. After the Prayaschitta, there has to be separation of bed and the outcomes for six years. In the even of non observance in this manner, the progeny and the partners in wedlock are stated to assume ‘Chandalatwa’ which occurs on three counts; Yama Smriti is quoted to state that there were three kinds of Chandalaas viz. those who assume Sanyasa formally, then reverts back to Garhastya, and beget children then the progeny are bad;!"

(: kamakoti.org)
 

Dear Sangom Sir,

Many rules and regulations are told by our ancestors.

Now, according to you, is sagOthra wedding good or bad?
 

Dear Sangom Sir,

Many rules and regulations are told by our ancestors.

Now, according to you, is sagOthra wedding good or bad?

According to me sagotra is a meaningless concept today. But even though many people may pose themselves to be very forward-looking and emancipated, they may still be afraid of breaking the "sAstram" or, as some put it, "the vedic rules". That was why I quoted the remedy from "the horse's mouth".
 
Namaste renukaji

Dear Sir,

Identical Twins share the same DNA.

Thanks Maam for your reply.

So can we infer that:
marriage (ie any relationship for progeny) is discouraged/prohibited by scientists(societies ?) when the individuals share same DNAs ie specifically & limited to identical twins ?
and/or
marriage (ie any relationship for progeny) is acceptable by scientists(societies ?) when the individuals dont share same DNAs ie are not identical twins ?
or in other words, marriage (ie any relationship for progeny) is acceptable by scientists(societies ?) between individuals (but not identical twins) born to same parents (same mother or same father or same mother&father) ?

I am trying to know the taboo (obsession ?) behind not marrying with same gothra (DNA ?), my questions are sincere.

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam
 
Namaste renukaji



Thanks Maam for your reply.

So can we infer that:
marriage (ie any relationship for progeny) is discouraged/prohibited by scientists(societies ?) when the individuals share same DNAs ie specifically & limited to identical twins ?
and/or
marriage (ie any relationship for progeny) is acceptable by scientists(societies ?) when the individuals dont share same DNAs ie are not identical twins ?
or in other words, marriage (ie any relationship for progeny) is acceptable by scientists(societies ?) between individuals (but not identical twins) born to same parents (same mother or same father or same mother&father) ?

I am trying to know the taboo (obsession ?) behind not marrying with same gothra (DNA ?), my questions are sincere.

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

Shri SiyaRaamji,

Excuse me for butting in and answering your post which was addressed to Smt. Renukaji.

The social taboos regarding marriage are, I think, not based entirely on genetic reasons alone. As society developed, family became a recognised unit thereof and as mankind found out about agriculture and animal husbandry, etc., land which till then was just land without any additional value, became a prized possession. (Possibly, the institution of rulers/kings/emperors etc., also originated in due course from the same original cause, but this is just my belief.) The question of inheriting this land or the use of this land (I am told that till Akbar's time, all land belonged to the village as a common asset and individuals/families had only the right to build houses/cottages and live therein or cultivate specified portions of this common land mass; only after the first land survey was done during Akbar's regime, India got the notion of land as "property" and as a saleable asset.) arose subsequently and since our whole scriptural base was a male-dominated society, the matter of begetting a male progeny became most important.

Paternal family became a crystallized idea and though there seems to have been a time when the elder brother's widow could mate with one of the younger brothers of her dead husband in order to beget a male progeny, etc., it was generally considered undesirable to upset or weaken the larger patrilinear family-tree and so all cousins, even those seventh removed, were treated or considered as equal to blood brothers or sisters. The idea of "sagotra" which originally was perhaps of tribal origin, fitted well with this concept of the larger patrilinear family. That was how 'sagotra' marriages came to be forbidden; it was like the marriage of a brother and sister in a very wide sense, so to speak and this has been forbidden even in the last stages of the Rigvedic times (as is evident from the Yama-Yami samvAda in the tenth Mandala of the rigveda).

We are many millennia away now from those days and the world as also our knowledge of many scientific matters has grown exponentially. Hence, today I feel we should leave aside the sagotra concept and instead focus on blood group/rh factor compatibility and also test for fetal symptoms of down's syndrome and such contingencies.
 
Namaste sangomji

Shri SiyaRaamji...The social taboos regarding marriage are, I think, not based entirely on genetic reasons alone...Hence, today I feel we should leave aside the sagotra concept and instead focus on blood group/rh factor compatibility and also test for fetal symptoms of down's syndrome and such contingencies.

Thanks a lot Sangomji for your post, I always eagerly read your posts.

I have heard lot of spicy-rumours but are very much non-rumours ie facts (in hush hush tones) about certain marriages (without much tom-toming) between cousins brothers-sisters, between guy & brother's daughter, guy & between mother's sister vise-verse etc., and/but building happy families with health children.

I believe there were/are many a group of people that ask following questions:
If marriage is not for progeny then is sagothra marriage or marriage between same blood group/rh factor compatibility acceptable ?
Is marriage that is not for progeny acceptable by societies ? if yes then why not above scenario ?

I believe these questions are similar to that of inter-cast/inter-religion/inter-race marriages, divorce, same-sex marriage, child marriages, widow marriages, live-in relationship etc.,

Also, I believe (as I said in some other post) that marriage concept evolved as part of human civilization and will become obsolete (ex: divorce, live-in relationship etc., are precursors but are not deviations) in due course of time. Ofcourse, love & companionship existed even before the invention of marriage institution and will continue even after fall of marriage institution.

Sangomji, I wanted to contact you about my horoscope but I could not due to new forum rules ie I am not eligible to send personal messages. I guess I should complete 100 posts :) to become eligible to send personal messages.

Thanks Sangomji for your posts, they are always enlightening and pleasure to read.

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam
 
I am trying to know the taboo (obsession ?) behind not marrying with same gothra (DNA ?), my questions are sincere.
Sorry for intervening. Since your question is sincere i thot i should convey this to you. The system of gotras existed in a primitive time. Back then nobody knew what is DNA. It has nothing to do with DNA. Gothra was merely a social system of who should get wealth., ie., cows.
 
There are swear words in Tamil slang to scold guys who wish to have 'that' relationship with either sister / mother!!
 
Dear Sir,

I am of the opinion that WE CAN MARRY FROM THE SAME GOTHRA. I have explained this else where. If MAMA can marry MARUMAKAL , and if we can give our girls to those employed in foreign countries which is prohibited by brahmins of the past since if a person goes to any place crossing the seas he/ she should be regarded as an out cast, I am of the opinion that one can marry from the same GOTHRA. However please take the opinion of the physician which I consider as the best choice.

Regards and Namaskarams,
P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN
 
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