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Mahabharatham - Curse of the King

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Brahmanyan

Well-known member
The war was over. King Yuthishtira followed by his brothers and the grieving Kshatriya ladies who had lost their husbands and kins proceeded slowly to the mother Ganga to perform last rites to the departed souls in the form of Tharpanam (Oblations) as prescribed by scriptures. After completion of the ritual,Yuthishtra looked at his mother and told that he had completed his duty to the departed souls of all his relatives who had given up their lives in the battle. But he saw his mother shedding tears and tried to express some thing more. Then Sri Krishna looked at Rajamatha Kunthi and nodded his head. Accordingly Kunthi told in a feeble voice about one more Kshatriya of the clan who deserves the ritual oblation, that he was their elder brother Karna. Hearing the whole story of Karna from his mother,the royal sage Yudhishthira, shocked and filled with grief, became plunged in meditation. Beholding that hero cheerless and unmanned by sorrow, sighing like a snake and shedding copious tears, Kunti herself filled with grief and almost deprived of her senses by sorrow, addressed him in these sweet words of grave import and well-suited to the occasion, 'O mighty-armed Yudhishthira, you should not to give way to sorrow thus. O you are of great wisdom, kill this grief of yours, and listen to what I say. I tried in past times to apprise Karna of his brothership with you. The god Surya also, O foremost of all righteous persons, did the same. All that a well-wishing friend, from desire of good, should say to one, was said to Karna by that god in a dream and once more in my presence. Neither by affliction nor by reasons could Surya or myself succeed in pacifying him or inducing him to unite himself with his brothers. Succumbing to the influence of Time (Kaala), he became resolved upon wreaking his enmity on you. As he was bent upon doing injuries upon you all, I myself gave up the attempt.'

But Dharmaraja Yudhishthira, overwhelmed by grief, possessed of great energy, then, in sorrow, cursed all the women of the World thus.

9 ity ukto dharmarājas tu mātrā bāṣpākulekṣaṇaḥ
uvāca vākyaṃ dharmātmā śokavyākula cetanaḥ

[SIZE=-1]10[/SIZE] bhavatyā gūḍhamantratvāt pīḍito 'smīty uvāca tām
śaśāpa ca mahātejāḥ sarvalokeṣu ca striyaḥ
na guhyaṃ dhārayiṣyantīty atiduḥkha samanvitaḥ
MB: 12-6 (9&10)

King Yudhishthira, with tearful eyes and heart agitated by grief, said these words, 'In consequence of thyself having concealed thy counsels, this great affliction has overtaken me!' Possessed of great energy, the righteous king, then, in sorrow, cursed all the women of the world, saying, 'Henceforth no woman shall succeed in keeping a secret.' The king, then, recollecting his sons and grandsons and kinsmen and friends, became filled with anxiety and grief. Afflicted with sorrow, the intelligent king, resembling a fire covered with smoke, became overwhelmed with despair."
MB: 12-6 (9&10) (Translation by Kisri Mohan Ganguli)

The above is taken from Shanti Parva of the Great Epic Srimath Mahabharatham. This I would consider this most poignant scene in the great epic.

(Translation by Kisri Mohan Ganguli)


Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
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Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Dear Sir,
A "much needed and deserved " curse I should say!
But to this day I find that women CAN keep their own secrets under cork but their head will burst into a thousand fragments - if they try to keep anther person's secret, a secret. Sounds strange but is true!
with warm regards, :pray2:
Visalakshi Ramani.
 
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Brahmanyan

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
Dear Mrs. Visalakshi Ramani,

Agreed. But "the Curse of the King" seems to continue even now. A Secret whether one's own or other's ceases to be one when it is revealed to another person.

Warm Ragards,
Brahmanyn,
Bangalore.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Brahmanyan,

I think Yudhistira's curse has had no effect. Women are the ablest in keeping all sorts of secrets generally, while putting up a facade that they are chatter-boxes and will take extreme pleasure in divulging others' secrets, which need not always have come to them by word of mouth. So, imho, your conclusion seems to be wrong.

  • Why were women successful as international spies?
  • Why did the rishis incorporate into the sraaddha mantra the one admitting the possibility of the dumb brahmanan doing the sraaddham being unaware of his biological father, grandfather and great grandfather due to possible unfaithfulness of mother, grandmother and great grandmother?
Man is dumb while woman is inscrutable, that is nature. Yudhistira also was a Man!
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
King Yudhishthira, with tearful eyes and heart agitated by grief, said these words, 'In consequence of thyself having concealed thy counsels, this great affliction has overtaken me!' Possessed of great energy, the righteous king, then, in sorrow, cursed all the women of the world, saying, 'Henceforth no woman shall succeed in keeping a secret.' The king, then, recollecting his sons and grandsons and kinsmen and friends, became filled with anxiety and grief. Afflicted with sorrow, the intelligent king, resembling a fire covered with smoke, became overwhelmed with despair."

Dear Sir,

The answer is contained in the passage quoted by you. Mark these words,
cursed all the women of the world, saying, 'Henceforth no woman shall succeed in keeping a secret.'
I am sure everyone has a dark secret or two in spite of the curse!

with warm regards, :pray2:
Visalakshi Ramani.

 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Dear sir,

You have said "due to the unfaithfulness of the mother/ grandmother/ great grandmother!

Even if true, could it not be because the other men violated them/ raped them and impregnated them against their wish or consent?

This coin has two sides.

So the man is as much to be blamed as the woman
IF this accusation is true!

Remember the proverbs

"Annan pendaatti araip pendaatti!
Thambi pendaatti than pendaatti"

with warm regards,
Mrs. V.R.


Shri Brahmanyan,

I think Yudhistira's curse has had no effect. Women are the ablest in keeping all sorts of secrets generally, while putting up a facade that they are chatter-boxes and will take extreme pleasure in divulging others' secrets, which need not always have come to them by word of mouth. So, imho, your conclusion seems to be wrong.

  • Why were women successful as international spies?
  • Why did the rishis incorporate into the sraaddha mantra the one admitting the possibility of the dumb brahmanan doing the sraaddham being unaware of his biological father, grandfather and great grandfather due to possible unfaithfulness of mother, grandmother and great grandmother?
Man is dumb while woman is inscrutable, that is nature. Yudhistira also was a Man!
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
I read a weird story about Jupiter/ Zeus. :shocked:

He was the king of Gods. When a majesty born on earth can become " A nasty majesty"- what is that a king of Gods cannot do to amuse himself?

Jupiter had been continually having affairs with or raping goddesses, and humans to his heart's delight.

His Queen was very suspicious of him and kept a close watch on his numerous affairs. :suspicious:

Jupiter found a novel way to distract her.

He appointed Echo to go on chattering continuously - distracting the queen from keeping a close watch on him. :blabla:

The shrewd queen figured out his plan and cursed Echo that in future she could only REPEAT the words spoken by others and can not speak on her own! :tape:

So this kind of behavior had been in vogue among the Gods and men since time immemorial!
 
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Brahmanyan

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
I read a weird story about Jupiter/ Zeus. :shocked:

He was the king of Gods. When a majesty born on earth can become " A nasty majesty"- what is that a king of Gods cannot do to amuse himself?

Jupiter had been continually having affairs with or raping goddesses, and humans to his heart's delight.

His Queen was very suspicious of him and kept a close watch on his numerous affairs. :suspicious:

Jupiter found a novel way to distract her.

He appointed Echo to go on chattering continuously - distracting the queen from keeping a close watch on him. :blabla:

The shrewd queen figured out his plan and cursed Echo that in future she could only REPEAT the words spoken by others and can not speak on her own! :tape:

So this kind of behavior had been in vogue among the Gods and men since time immemorial!

Dear Mrs. Visalakshi Ramani,

This shows how true is that "times may change but human behavior is still the same".
Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear sir,

You have said "due to the unfaithfulness of the mother/ grandmother/ great grandmother!

Even if true, could it not be because the other men violated them/ raped them and impregnated them against their wish or consent?

This coin has two sides.

So the man is as much to be blamed as the woman
IF this accusation is true!

Remember the proverbs

"Annan pendaatti araip pendaatti!
Thambi pendaatti than pendaatti"

with warm regards,
Mrs. V.R.

Smt. VR,

There were detailed discussions about those mantras here in this forum, more than once, imo. The mantra does not leave any scope for ambiguity about the composer's intention. It goes - यन्मॆ माता प्रलुलोभा भवन्त्यननुव्रता - yanme mātā pralulobhā bhavantyananuvratā (in case my mother became attracted and in disobedience of the rules of a faithful wife (an anuvrataa)...

So, even if as you say, there was violation/rape, the sage who composed this mantra does not include cases in which the woman did not become "attracted" towards such act.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Dear Sir,

I do not know the mantram you are referring to.

But it is strange that always only the woman is expected to be chaste, pure and never the man who may get attracted to hundred different females - even with the so called untouchables!

Double standard as everywhere else!

After all it is a man's world!

All are equal. But some are more equal than the others!

with warm regards,
Mrs. V. R.


QUOTE=sangom;109979]Smt. VR,

There were detailed discussions about those mantras here in this forum, more than once, imo. The mantra does not leave any scope for ambiguity about the composer's intention. It goes - यन्मॆ माता प्रलुलोभा भवन्त्यननुव्रता - yanme mātā pralulobhā bhavantyananuvratā (in case my mother became attracted and in disobedience of the rules of a faithful wife (an anuvrataa)...

So, even if as you say, there was violation/rape, the sage who composed this mantra does not include cases in which the woman did not become "attracted" towards such act.[/QUOTE]
 
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Brahmanyan

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
Dear Sir,

I do not know the mantram you are referring to.

But it is strange that always only the woman is expected to be chaste, pure and never the man who may get attracted to hundred different females - even with the so called untouchables!

Double standard as everywhere else!

After all it is a man's world!

All are equal. But some are more equal than the others!

with warm regards,
Mrs. V. R.


Dear Mrs. Visalakshi Ramani,

Unfortunately what you have stated is honest truth in the world for generations.
Recently I was reading an interesting and well documented book on Mughal Emperor Shah Jahan, by Fergus Nicoll. It is a bloody story of rise and fall of an emperor. In the words of the author " His is a complex and conflicted tale of romance and violence, of marital fidelity and fratricidal betrayal, of exquisite artistry and ugly intolerance." Women were treated as chattel. Does this not sound familiar to us? Yes it reminded me the episodes of Mahabharata. As I mentioned earlier human behaviour has not changed much in spite of other changes in society.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
dear Sir,

Often a question is being asked...

Has the world and human beings become worse than ever before?

No! As you have rightly pointed out the world and the human beings have been very much the same since many centuries.

Now the atrocities are highlighted and made known world over by the media.

If a crazy man in London decides to drop his three year old son in a washing machine and run it -
to make a LIVING CHILD INTO A RAG DOLL WITH BROKEN BONES-it would not have been recorded in the past... unless he was a king but it is recorded and broadcast / telecast to the world now.

Man loves violence. Or else how could crowds gather the watch fight-unto-death of the gladiators, the merciless bull fights, the beheading of the royal families in public with guillotine?

Another scary piece of news! :scared:

The eyes and brain of the severed head remains functioning for about ten seconds. They head is always held up and shown to the gathering.

This work in two ways! The crowd cheers the fall of the 'villain'.

The head registers the jubilation at its fall.

What a lot of cruelty! :shocked:

Animals LIVE by violence. They are made that way.
Man LOVES violence. He has made himself thus. :tsk:

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.
 

itsmesiva

New member
A fundamental question. Didn't Kunthi reveal to the entire world that Karnan is her son after he died in Kurukshetra. This posts seems to indicate that Yudhishtirar knew about it only when he was doing neethaar kadan. Hope I am not / have not been missing anything.
 
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Brahmanyan

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
A fundamental question. Didn't Kunthi reveal to the entire world that Karnan is her son after he died in Kurukshetra. This posts seems to indicate that Yudhishtirar knew about it only when he was doing neethaar kadan. Hope I am not / have not been missing anything.

I tried to find out the answer for the same query. As per my reading of the Epic (original version) no-where Kunthi declares and admit Karna as her son except at this incident quoted. In fact earlier to this Bhishma reveals the secret of Karna's birth to Dhuryodhana when he carries the sad news of Karna's death to Bhishma.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
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Brahmanyan

Brahmanyan

Well-known member

Animals LIVE by violence. They are made that way.
Man LOVES violence. He has made himself thus. :tsk:

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.

Dear Mrs Visalakshi Ramani,

Well said. Animals kill their enemies for a purpose, either for food or self preservation. And do not kill more than their requirement. Man loves to
create ego-centric situations to show his superiority by killing his own species. He also kills other animals in the name of sports.
Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
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