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India summons US envoy Nancy Powell over arrest of diplomat in New York PTI

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Vaagmi

Well-known member
If kobragade is innocent like an angel why India is not able to convince US. I do not believe US does not want to get convinced. There is some shadow-boxing. The Indian public is not yet made privy to all the details. Kobragade can now visit US as a diplomat to UN with immunity. She can not be touched. And India can go about telling that it won the tussle. Relation between mature nations is not conducted this way. I do not understand in what way kobragade is superior to a retired president of India.

My relatives in US are not surviving on the charity of US. They can survive with dignity and maintain their level of lifestyle and comfort if they have to return to India.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Recognising the damage that the diplomat row has done to the India-US relationship, there is a realisation in the top American leadership that "it was the most stupid thing to do" on their part and that they would now have to "work overtime" to bring back the ties on track.
"The overwhelming opinion was this should not have happened. The sense was that there was a sectorial bureaucracy, which pursued an issue and the people who had the big picture, either had taken the eyes off the ball or were in the middle of transition," said another source familiar with the conversation happening at the senior level of US government and among the lawmakers.


"For whatever reason, the big picture guys did not stop the sectorial bureaucracy at the time when people should have said, look where is this issue going," sources said, adding the sentence "that this should not have happened" is being said both at the Hill and the corridor of powers here.

Deccan Herald.

It was the failure of Kerry-Obama administration, mishandling of an international proportions, and that I.....(anti-Indian) Preet Barrara trying to score a point.
PIO in New york remember that name Preet Barrara when he comes for your vote.


Mr. Vaagmi sir,
No she can not return to USA. She has been declared as such by the US state department.
Deccan Herald:
The United States on Friday said senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, who returned to New Delhi, no longer enjoys immunity and she and Indian government were told that an arrest warrant might be issued against her.

This when Husband and children are US Citizen, and she has done exactly what is done by majority of diplomats. The mistake was by government of India. The Indian government should hire the maids as foreign services, and then they would not be governed by US laws. Some of the Embassy staff do not get the US minimum wages.
 
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Vaagmi

Well-known member
Dear prasad,

Kindly check up the facts again. It has been made clear that an understanding has been worked out between the two Governments not to declare khobragade as well as the American diplomat who was asked to pack up persona non grata. Khobragade can not enter US as an ordinary citizen of India because the case stands. But if she is to go there as a diplomat she will get full immunity. If she had been declared persona non grata, the situation would have been different.
 

Nara

Well-known member
...India can not become a vassal state just because that would suit the Indian Americans and the NRIs..
Don't pin this exclusively on Indian Americans and NRI, there are plenty of Indians in India who want India to be a vassal state of USA......
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear prasad,

Kindly check up the facts again. It has been made clear that an understanding has been worked out between the two Governments not to declare khobragade as well as the American diplomat who was asked to pack up persona non grata. Khobragade can not enter US as an ordinary citizen of India because the case stands. But if she is to go there as a diplomat she will get full immunity. If she had been declared persona non grata, the situation would have been different.

Sir,
According to Times of India:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ce-arrest-warrant-US/articleshow/28668072.cms

The US has said that Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, who returned to New Delhi, no longer enjoys immunity and an arrest warrant might be issued against her.


"Prior to her (Khobragade) departure, it was conveyed to her and to the government of India that she is not permitted to return to the United States except to submit to the jurisdiction of the court.


"Her name would be placed in visa and immigration lookout systems to prevent the routine issuance of any future visa and upon her departure a warrant may be issued for her arrest," state department spokesperson Jen Psaki said.


Khobragade's departure from the US, she said, does not change the charges against the 39-year-old diplomat.


On Thursday, Khobragade was indicted in a New York court on two counts of visa fraud and misrepresentation of facts.


"The charges remain in place. There are processes that are standard processes in each of these cases, which we were abiding by throughout this process," the state department spokesperson insisted.

[video=youtube;W8pLQR6iDz0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W8pLQR6iDz0[/video]
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
U.S.A has always been anti-Indian. The rise of Pakistan as a military power is only because of the total support of U.S. This goes back to the days of Dulles. Even today Pakistan is a valuable Ally of U.S whereas India is not.

The U.S almost sent its marines to India at the time Bangladesh war.

Just because our people have started migrating to U.S on a large scale can not improve relations.

India can not become a vassal state just because that would suit the Indian Americans and the NRIs.

Things would become only worse if BJP comes to power in India. Hindu Nationalistic party. Neither Hinduism nor nationalism is popular with the Americans.

Sir,
I take exception to your comment about PIO's supporting US position. You are mistaken.
I was the first in this site to show our outrage over this case. A large number of PIO's protested vehemently, we have written to our senators and other officials.
So please get your facts straight, and please do not assume that all Indian passport holders are India supporters. Dawood Ibrahim too carried Indian Passport.
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
A swallow does not make a summer. Some individuals and also some associations have supported In the Indian stand. But generally the support has been totally lacking. The number of comments in various newspapers bear testimony to this.

This is the general feeling of the public in India.There have been newspaper reports about associations of Indian Americans demonstrating in support of Sangeetha Richards.

Pakistanis do not criticize their country when they are abroad.Indians are extremely critical about India when they are abroad. In fact when some one has something nice to say about India, the Indian go out of the way to refute that.This is a well known fact.


Frankly am personally fed up of NRIs telling me how horrible India is. There are many postings in this forum also in that vein.
 
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Nara

Well-known member
.... But generally the support has been totally lacking. The number of comments in various newspapers bear testimony to this..
This is true, a majority of comments in the newspapers were supportive of the prosecutor. In Facebook when I tried to argue the case like I have done here some NRI's accused me of being anti-American and asked me to take a one-way flight to India.
 

zebra16

Well-known member
The net result of the entire episode as on today is that Preet Bharara has come out as a total fool.

That the U S had to issue temporary visa to Devyani Kobragade to fly out of the U S which conferred total indemnity. albeit belatedly is egg on the face of the Manhattan Attorney who thought he was solely empowered by God to be the World's prosecutor.
 

biswa

New member
From what I see in the comments section of every page I read on this topic, the response is 50-50. About half the commenters support the US action against visa fraud and about half claim Indian sovereignty and US arrogance.

Interestingly those who support the US action talk about the individual DK and he accusations as well as her father Uttam K and his involvement in various scams. Actually resident Indian commenters know more about these Adarsh scams etc and they view it as a corruption case.

The other half of course brings this affair to the inter-country level and talk about quid pro quo, violation of dignity, sovereignty, swimming pool and liquor license for US embassy to India and so on.

So people are really talking at cross purposes.
 

Nara

Well-known member
The net result of the entire episode as on today is that Preet Bharara has come out as a total fool.
Unfortunately this is jot true, I say unfortunately because he acted like a jackass in this whole affair. The fact is, he got his way, he is the one refusing to drop the charges and Devyani now stands charged of a felony and facing arrest and prosecution if she steps foot in U.S. soil.
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
Dear Shri.Nara,
I refer to your post no.112 and seek some clarification.
US State Dept issued 'G 1 Visa' to the Indian Diplomat on 8th January,2014 which gave 'Diplomatic Immunity' to her.
US State Dept again requested Govt of India to withdraw her diplomatic immunity(after having issued the same the previous day) which was refused by the Govt of India.
This resulted in US Govt requesting Govt of India to withdraw the diplomat from USA.
The Diplomatic immunity given to her continues till she remains a member of Permanent Indian Mission.
I am not clear on the following points:-
(1) whether asking the Govt Of India to with draw her from USA automatically implies withdrawal of diplomatic immunity to the Indian Diplomat.
(2) whether USA Govt is empowered to ask the withdrawal of Officers of other Governments working in UNITED NATIONS in New York according to their wish.
There is another development in this case.
From the 'Reuters' News quoted by MSN INDIA(news.in.msn.com)" DEVYANI moves US COURT,seeks withdrawal of VISA fraud case."
Indian Diplomat has moved a Federal Court in New York on 9th January,2014 to dismiss the VISA Fraud case against her,saying there is lack of personal jurisdiction since she had been accorded full diplomatic immunity by the US Department of State.
Her lawyer Daniel Arshack submitted a four page 'motion seeking dismissal of action for lack of personal jurisdiction" on January 9th with MagistrateJudge Sarah Netburn of the US District Court of the Southern District of New York Archack said in his motion that even as the US Department of State fully credentialed Khobragade as a Diplomat assigned to the Permanent Mission of INDIA TO THE UN,"additionally and unexpectedly"
they have required her immediate departure from the US'.
I think this only implies that US courts have no 'personal jurisdiction' over persons having 'Diplomatic Immunity'
I am not clear how this could be a valid reason for dismissal of the case against her.
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
I agree with the comments of Mr.Biswa in Post No,111.
I do not know why people commenting in Newspapers are biased to link her and her father getting Adharsh Flats illegally, her family belonging to
SC and thus getting several privileges from Govt of INDIA etc,etc.
These comments are irrelevant to the issue.
She has been posted to USA as a representative of Govt of India.
Here the prestige of a Sovereign country INDIA is involved.
The Prime Minister has correctly commented that the action of USA Govt in this case is' deplorable'
When the country was at war with Pakistan, all political parties closed their ranks and supported the Government.
This should have been the case.It is really unfortunate that people could not view this issue between two Sovereign countries.
We can always have internal inquiry within the country after the case has been settled and learn lessions for the future.
We were overenthusiastic with China in 1960s and got snub by China in 1962.
This incident revealed how our Govt of India was overenthusiastic in extending privileges to US Diplomats without
getting similar privileges
Hope our foreign policy is recast on a reciprocal basis at least for the future.
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
People in India who had no opportunity to visit USA may be on the impression that there is no poverty in USA.
If you stand in front of 'Salvation Army' you can observe a long 'Q' of poor People to get FOOD.They offer Food only to 100 persons,the remaining go without Food.
In Face Book,I saw an interesting comment by a person residing in USA.
Mr.Krishna Iyer (CRIS IYER)from Mumbai is a member of FB and he has lot of followers from different countries.
In his time line,He made a Comment "WEIRD WORLD" Now China Moghul wants to buy WSJ....
To this there was a comment from Mr.Murthy Aditham as follows:_
"The Problem as I see,it that manufacturing activity in US has come down drastically and only automobile,aeroplanes and high tech weapons etc are being manufactured,resulting in massive imports including daily necessities from China and other Countries.Outsourcing every economic activity to other Countries will lead to massive unemployment in various fields and gradual decline of the economic supremacy of the USA.
Americans must tighten their belt and stop the profligacy to rejuvenate themselves.'
To the above comment,Mr.Patty Harlan from US observed as follows:-
" Murthy. I am US,but you are absolutely right.
There are millions here that have no jobs,home, food.We struggle day to day while the rich get richer.
The Govt keep saying it will be better each year but only it is worse."
COURTESY:- FACE BOOK.
When USA have their own internal problems to solve,it is surprising as to why they act like a 'saviour' in the case of a Domestic Help from another country
and bring the family of the DH also at US govt cost.
 

Nara

Well-known member
Dear BK, you have raised a lot of issues. I think there are no clear cut answers to many of them. We can only discuss general principles. The problem is there are two opposing principles, (a) the laws of a host country must be respected and (b) diplomatic immunity must be respected.

In regards to (a), I think the Indian Ministry of External affairs must take responsibility. My guess is D didn't do anything that other consular officials were not doing. I have seen reports that the maid herself stated she was well treated. The wage issue is well known and the Indian Embassy should have dealt with this it in a proactive way to protect its staff from the wrath of US Attorneys. They failed miserably and D had to pay the price.

With regard to (b), the US acted callously, and the reason for that is the puppy love IG and Indians have for USA. The US knew they can handle anything the Indians will throw at them. They probably thought this will be a nice way of showing to Indians who runs the world. For all the outrage the US State Department's assessment is spot on. USA is still thumbing its nose against the two basic demands of IG, (i) drop all charges, and (ii) apologize for the mistreatment of D, and IG can do nothing about it. An Indian diplomat was subjected literally to legal rape, and all the IG could do is to bring her back to India, that is it. The whole world can see the big middle finger USA is giving to India. The Chinese are probably rolling on the floor laughing.

You also bring up an ironic twist to this story. While US State Department is so concerned about the wages paid to the maid, the US Government refuses to raise the federal minimum wage that has fallen to below 1960s level adjusted for inflation. Millions upon millions of Americans are working 40, 60 , and 80 hours a week and are still living in abject poverty in the richest country the world has ever seen. The income and wealth gap is widest in generations and the worst among wealthy nations. A single family, the Walmart family, owns more wealth than 1/3rd of the US population, that is more than 100 million Americans. And somehow these State Department officials are so concerned about the wages paid to a single Indian maid!!!

These Americans have no leg at all to lecture Indian diplomats about paying their help decent wages.
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
Dear Shri.Nara,
I fully agree with your views.
The entire episode could have been settled at Diplomatic level without much fuss.
Both the Indian Diplomat and the Domestic Help have not conducted themselves in a responsible manner.
Both signing agreements one in India and another one to satisfy USA immigration authority to get visa for the Domestic Maid is a fraud and amounts to Cheating.
The fight between USA and India can never be equal.India has to become a Economic power.
I am reminded of a story written in Tamil by a retired officer of the Govt Of India.The book is just 90 pages and the title of the Book is"last few minutes of Viceroy before midnight of India's independence".
The contents of the book is not fully related to the title of the Book.
The author narrates his School days in 1940s vividly.He says in his class,there was a Big Brother challenging one and all.Anticipating that he might attack him some day he developed friendship with another student who was equally strong and extracted a promise that he will get support if attacked by Big Brother.
One day big brother threatens him in the class and he reported the matter to his friend who assured him of help.When the Bell rang for closure of School,
the big brother comes to the author for fight and as per earlier assurance,his friend come to his rescue.Once he saw that both (the big brother and his friend)were fighting,he took his bag and ran away to his house.
He explains to his elder sister the entire story.When she reprimanded him to have abandoned his friend,he explained that he was afraid that big brother may hit him in case his friend is defeated in the fight.

Unfortunately for India,there is no friend strong enough to support India in its fight with a powerful Country like USA.It is high time we try to establish good and friendly relation with China and other Asian nations.
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
This article sums it up well.

Devyani Khobragade row shows India fell off Obama's map - The Times of India



Indian leaders have been subjected to humiliation in the U.S for a longtime. But India has been putting up with with it.


India has never been a favourite of U.S. It has always been Pakistan.


India and Indians have to get used to the situation.


The Indians in America and the Indian Americans are put in an unenviable position. Some of them like the prosecutor in this case may believe that taking a stringent anti_Indian stand is the way to prove your loyalty.


India was the leader of the Non-Aligned movement which was hated by the U.S. We were not bothered then when we were a fledgling nation. Have we become weak now?
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
The Devyani Khobragade affair may be over for now but that has not stopped India from continuing to clamp down on excesses allegedly committed by US diplomats.


While India has already ruled out restoring what it describes as non-reciprocal privileges and facilitations -- like special airport access and blanket immunity -- it is now insisting on getting details about spouses of US officials teaching in American schools in Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai. The US has not yet provided these details or those related to the pay scale of ‎Indian staff working with the US embassy and consulates.


India's ambassador to the US, S Jaishankar, raised the issue related to American embassy schools with US deputy secretary of state William Burns in a meeting on Tuesday. One of the "privileges" India quickly wants‎ to put an end to is the tax exemption given to US nationals working with these schools. According to official sources, there are strong reasons to believe that some US nationals teaching in these schools don't have the requisite work permit.


India has also accused the embassy in New Delhi of long having hosted commercial facilities within its compound, including sale and service establishments, that are open not only to non-US diplomats but also to non-diplomatic staff and outsiders. India last week ordered that these facilities be shut down by January 16. Sources, however, clarified that these services have not been shut for US diplomats and that they are free to avail these even now. "There is no restriction on US diplomats. Only the commercial activities by American Community Support Association (ACSA) have been stopped,'' said a source.


India has also made it clear that there is no question of restoring the special airport access facility for the US ambassador and other diplomats till the time the same is extended to Indian diplomats in the US. The ambassador, Nancy Powell, who had a special pass with a photo identity card, cancelled her trip to Nepal last month. The US embassy said this was because she had to look after pressing issues here. She travelled to Hyderabad after that but without the special airport pass.


"There was no retaliation by India but just a review of these privileges to bring them strictly in line with reciprocity, the cornerstone of diplomatic ties,'' said an official.

The Times of India.
 
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