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How did Universe form..?

thebigthinkg

Active member
If I mix my understanding of vedic scriptures with science with a little bit of imagination, this is how universe/multi-verses keep getting formed.

A scalar field is a distribution of a particular scalar quantity. At the beginning there are two 'scalar' fields one in which whatever we call 'energy' is distributed and another which interacts with this energy and condenses/freezes it from moving. I call the energy field as dark energy scalar field and the condensing field as Higgs' (Higgs prime) field.

An analogy is large mass of ocean of frozen ice (water is like energy but frozen due to a field that impedes the water's movement). This is the 'hima', 'himavat', 'himavan', 'hi' in our vedic scriptures.

While water analogy is in 3 dimensional space, this frozen energy occurs in a 5 dimensional space.

Though energy is frozen, there are small perturbations that keep happening, as the Higgs' field does not condense/freeze energy all over. And randomly at some point these perturbations accumulate and energy gets released suddenly at this point.

Now we have a region where the dark energy scalar field is free (from the condensing field) and whatever we call 'energy' that quantity is distributed all through.

An analogy is a sudden appearance of mass of water inside a largely frozen icy ocean. One mass of water is one universe. There could be multiple such masses of water in this never-ending frozen icy ocean. So there could be multiple universes getting created, as and when perturbation accumulate at a region.

But when this freeing up of energy occurs, it occurs in four dimensions, while the 5th dimension is 'shortened'.

Again the analogy is, in the 3 dimensional ocean of ice, when islands of water appear, any water movement is in just 2 dimensions (not in 3rd dimension, as there are no 'waves').

At first a small amount of energy gets freed up as above. As energy moves in this space, this is followed by a larger 'crack' in which a much larger space gets filled with energy freed from condensation.

Again the analogy is, the perturbations in ice at first creates a small crack filled with water, followed by a much larger breakdown in which this crack expands and a larger water body is formed in the ocean of ice.

Pretty much this could be happening in all the multi-verses (or multiple cracks filled with water) or each one could follow a different pattern, some overlapping with another.

The scalar quantity that we call as 'energy' is the 'Shiva'. The condenser is the Vishnu. The water (or energy) that forms in this ocean of ice is the Hiranyagarbha, the four dimensional space time (or brahma). Shiva and Vishnu are puruSa, the observers or sAksis, whom we can only infer through the effects. If we believe puruSa sukta, then this original 'crack' that happened was just ten angulas and that's what expanded into all Universe as we see it now with stars, galaxies, planets and all the matter evolution. The fifth head of brahma gets plucked/shortened during expansion of energy (shiva plucks it) and brahma becomes the four dimensional/four headed spacetime. The oceans referred to in our scriptures are oceans of energy and land is the 'mass' that comes due to Higgs interaction (will talk about it later).

The stories of Shiva residing in colden peaks of kailasa (energy condensed at the start), shiva appearing as a pillar of light (as it is released energy) etc arise from these. Vishnu is padma-nabha (the large pedestal navel roughly) for this reason. In the frozen ocean of energy condensed by vishnu, a small pool of energy released in between, in which the Universe evolves is like Universe manifesting in the small navel of a large body.

While all matter forms exist in a 3 dimensional space, the fourth dimension of space impacts the matter forms as 'time'

Now pretty much the same pattern happens also in the consciousness evolution in biological beings.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Two comments: Your first line has a key word: Imagination :) That defines the rest

Do you know that the highest understanding of Advita Vedanta is that there is no creation at all ? A text called Mandukya Karika address this teaching
 
OP
OP
T

thebigthinkg

Active member
Two comments: Your first line has a key word: Imagination :) That defines the rest

Do you know that the highest understanding of Advita Vedanta is that there is no creation at all ? A text called Mandukya Karika address this teaching

my translation of mandukya upanishad, if interested.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
If I mix my understanding of vedic scriptures with science with a little bit of imagination, this is how universe/multi-verses keep getting formed.

A scalar field is a distribution of a particular scalar quantity. At the beginning there are two 'scalar' fields one in which whatever we call 'energy' is distributed and another which interacts with this energy and condenses/freezes it from moving. I call the energy field as dark energy scalar field and the condensing field as Higgs' (Higgs prime) field.

An analogy is large mass of ocean of frozen ice (water is like energy but frozen due to a field that impedes the water's movement). This is the 'hima', 'himavat', 'himavan', 'hi' in our vedic scriptures.

While water analogy is in 3 dimensional space, this frozen energy occurs in a 5 dimensional space.

Though energy is frozen, there are small perturbations that keep happening, as the Higgs' field does not condense/freeze energy all over. And randomly at some point these perturbations accumulate and energy gets released suddenly at this point.

Now we have a region where the dark energy scalar field is free (from the condensing field) and whatever we call 'energy' that quantity is distributed all through.

An analogy is a sudden appearance of mass of water inside a largely frozen icy ocean. One mass of water is one universe. There could be multiple such masses of water in this never-ending frozen icy ocean. So there could be multiple universes getting created, as and when perturbation accumulate at a region.

But when this freeing up of energy occurs, it occurs in four dimensions, while the 5th dimension is 'shortened'.

Again the analogy is, in the 3 dimensional ocean of ice, when islands of water appear, any water movement is in just 2 dimensions (not in 3rd dimension, as there are no 'waves').

At first a small amount of energy gets freed up as above. As energy moves in this space, this is followed by a larger 'crack' in which a much larger space gets filled with energy freed from condensation.

Again the analogy is, the perturbations in ice at first creates a small crack filled with water, followed by a much larger breakdown in which this crack expands and a larger water body is formed in the ocean of ice.

Pretty much this could be happening in all the multi-verses (or multiple cracks filled with water) or each one could follow a different pattern, some overlapping with another.

The scalar quantity that we call as 'energy' is the 'Shiva'. The condenser is the Vishnu. The water (or energy) that forms in this ocean of ice is the Hiranyagarbha, the four dimensional space time (or brahma). Shiva and Vishnu are puruSa, the observers or sAksis, whom we can only infer through the effects. If we believe puruSa sukta, then this original 'crack' that happened was just ten angulas and that's what expanded into all Universe as we see it now with stars, galaxies, planets and all the matter evolution. The fifth head of brahma gets plucked/shortened during expansion of energy (shiva plucks it) and brahma becomes the four dimensional/four headed spacetime. The oceans referred to in our scriptures are oceans of energy and land is the 'mass' that comes due to Higgs interaction (will talk about it later).

The stories of Shiva residing in colden peaks of kailasa (energy condensed at the start), shiva appearing as a pillar of light (as it is released energy) etc arise from these. Vishnu is padma-nabha (the large pedestal navel roughly) for this reason. In the frozen ocean of energy condensed by vishnu, a small pool of energy released in between, in which the Universe evolves is like Universe manifesting in the small navel of a large body.

While all matter forms exist in a 3 dimensional space, the fourth dimension of space impacts the matter forms as 'time'

Now pretty much the same pattern happens also in the consciousness evolution in biological beings.
Imagination is kind of misunderstood, most of us think its just something we make up.

Imagination is the field of free will we humans have...if it is used in the conducive direction with perseverance and seeking guidance from God acknowledging that we are not the doer in the real sense and all knowledge is His...then the faculty of imagination will lead us to jnaanam.

Once jnaanam descends it would auto correct what we achieved through imagination and we get the bigger picture.
This process by passes the rational evidence based mind but once we get the bigger picture we would be guided to analyse it for the sake of the intellect driven world which rarely gets glimpses of the world of unveiling.


Keep up your imagination.
Shraddhaval labhate jnaanam.
Dr APJ Kalam said...its dreams that keep us awake.
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Imagination is kind of misunderstood, most of us think its just something we make up.

Imagination is the field of free will we humans have...if it is used in the conducive direction with perseverance and seeking guidance from God acknowledging that we are not the doer in the real sense and all knowledge is His...then the faculty of imagination will lead us to jnaanam.

Once jnaanam descends it would auto correct what we achieved through imagination and we get the bigger picture.
This process by passes the rational evidence based mind but once we get the bigger picture we would be guided to analyse it for the sake of the intellect driven world which rarely gets glimpses of the world of unveiling.


Keep up your imagination.
Shraddhaval labhate jnaanam.
Dr APJ Kalam said...its dreams that keep us awake.
I have come to believe that even the wildest imagination can get very real depending on the strength of the mind. In that case imagination syncs with reality because mind syncs with physical self. So one should be careful when dismissing something as just imagination.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Imagination is kind of misunderstood, most of us think its just something we make up.

Imagination is the field of free will we humans have...if it is used in the conducive direction with perseverance and seeking guidance from God acknowledging that we are not the doer in the real sense and all knowledge is His...then the faculty of imagination will lead us to jnaanam.

Once jnaanam descends it would auto correct what we achieved through imagination and we get the bigger picture.
This process by passes the rational evidence based mind but once we get the bigger picture we would be guided to analyse it for the sake of the intellect driven world which rarely gets glimpses of the world of unveiling.


Keep up your imagination.
Shraddhaval labhate jnaanam.
Dr APJ Kalam said...its dreams that keep us awake.
Well said Renuka
 
OP
OP
T

thebigthinkg

Active member
Imaginations or Inferences or Intuitions lead to hypothesis, models etc, which are then validated through experiments. Once proved, these become part of 'logic'. So imagination or inferences or intuitions are the base out of which new logic is developed. This is how science works.

Yes Renuka is right. Both our reception and transmission are inhibited by our 'ego'. Ego is from what we 'logically' already know. What we already know at times blocks what is coming in, alters it to suit our understanding. What we already know at times blocks what is going out from our intuitions or real understanding and suits it to what we know. When we are really humble, we reduce what we know to close to zero. Hence this inhibitor is gone. We receive things as it is and transmit our core realization/understanding.

It's like we transmit from our underlying consciousness and receive to it. So we are able to dream up, imagine or infer things better. They may be right or wrong. But we are able to come up with new hypothesis and models which expand the realm of knowledge. These get proved or disproved through different experiments and become part of our 'new' knowledge.
 

a-TB

Well-known member

my translation of mandukya upanishad, if interested.
Thank you, Mr TBT
I have not studied any of these Upanishads except read about them. Perhaps after retirement I may find time with a proper teacher.

What I was mentioning was the work of Sankara's Guru's Guru who composed the Karikas that show that creation is a myth

Science has creation theories and hypothesis which from what I understand have reached a point of un-verifiability. Multiple universes are more of math gymnastics it seems.

The Puranas are purely made up stories whose purpose is to teach something profound. Literal interpretations like religion even with fertile imagination can have issues

With that said please continue with your posts. .. Just sharing my 2 cents

I would replace your use of word imagination with intuition. In this forum most imaginations are synonymous with delusions

Intuition is never willed and need a clean mind. There is truth that can be unfolded to be ratified with other means later, But imaginations are the past times of mind and mostly useless except for story creators.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Puranas are actually not made up stories.
Its just seems a bit "dramatic" with secrets vowen in it because
we are not too "intuition abled" in interpreting it.
A verse from the Quran explains our lack of understanding.
It states " And these examples We present to the people, but none will understand them except those of knowing".

Recently a book was read by me and the book was a commentary by Paramahansa Yogananda on the role of Satan in the Abrahamic tradition.
Swamiji had explained the whole story of Satan falling from grace linking it with the concept of Apara Prakriti where Satan( Apara Prakriti) takes the role of Avarana and Vikshepa to delude humans.
It was totally a different dimension of understanding.

Then happened to also read a book titled The unlimited mercifier, works of Ibn Arabi where he inteprets verses from the Quran in ways that reveal the deeper dimensions and at the same time cautions that some deeper dimensions are not for the minds that is attached to intellectualization as there is a tendency to misinterpret the verses, hence at times verses are written symbolically so that the some dimensions are veiled till a person is spiritually ready to surrender intellectualization.
In fact Ibn Arabi explains the concept of " There is no god but The God" as " The God whom you perceive directly through mystical unveiling is not the god that you comprehend though rational thought"

Swami Yogananda too interpreted a verse from the Bible where Jesus said " I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heavens and earth, Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes"

Wise and Prudent here refers to egotistically wise and theorectically prudent.
Babes here means humble,simple and sincere spiritual babes who surrender their sensate intelligence unto the unlimited intutuitional inspiration that comes from God.

The verdict seems to hint that the Vivekachudamani( crown jewel of discriminative faculty) is divine intuition inspiration after all and not really a measure of the Vadam-Prativadam worldly IQ.
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Puranas are actually not made up stories.
Its just seems a bit "dramatic" with secrets vowen in it because
we are not too "intuition abled" in interpreting it.
A verse from the Quran explains our lack of understanding.
It states " And these examples We present to the people, but none will understand them except those of knowing".

Recently a book was read by me and the book was a commentary by Paramahansa Yogananda on the role of Satan in the Abrahamic tradition.
Swamiji had explained the whole story of Satan falling from grace linking it with the concept of Apara Prakriti where Satan( Apara Prakriti) takes the role of Avarana and Vikshepa to delude humans.
It was totally a different dimension of understanding.

Then happened to also read a book titled The unlimited mercifier, works of Ibn Arabi where he inteprets verses from the Quran in ways that reveal the deeper dimensions and at the same time cautions that some deeper dimensions are not for the minds that is attached to intellectualization as there is a tendency to misinterpret the verses, hence at times verses are written symbolically so that the some dimensions are veiled till a person is spiritually ready to surrender intellectualization.
In fact Ibn Arabi explains the concept of " There is no god but The God" as " The God whom you perceive directly through mystical unveiling is not the god that you comprehend though rational thought"

Swami Yogananda too interpreted a verse from the Bible where Jesus said " I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heavens and earth, Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes"

Wise and Prudent here refers to egotistically wise and theorectically prudent.
Babes here means humble,simple and sincere spiritual babes who surrender their sensate intelligence unto the unlimited intutuitional inspiration that comes from God.

The verdict seems to hint that the Vivekachudamani( crown jewel of discriminative faculty) is divine intuition inspiration after all and not really a measure of the Vadam-Prativadam worldly IQ.
The problem is that people are not even logical leave alone being intuition abled but are more tuned towards attacking others personally.. Ego veils even simple logical thinking.
 

sravna

Well-known member
The problem is that people are not even logical leave alone being intuition abled but are more tuned towards attacking others personally.. Ego veils even simple logical thinking.
Do you know that science and technology is used to make people go simply mad by transmitting non stop voice and thought messages and also label the victim as schizophrenic when he adversely reacts.? Yes it is being used on me too and is in operation right now. But fortunately my mind is able to neatly handle it and make it as one more failed and pathetic effort on their part to get back at me for the only reason of possessing natural telepathic abilities.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
The problem is that people are not even logical leave alone being intuition abled but are more tuned towards attacking others personally.. Ego veils even simple logical thinking.
We all go through the 3 phases of

1) Tamas ( reactive- reptilian brain)..the brain which is totally veiled.

2)Rajas( Logical -rational brain)..the brain of a seeker

3)Sattva (Intuition-receptive brain)..the brain of a jnaani.

Read about the Egyptian Eye of Horus.
Its the depection of the Limbic system of the brain.
The reptilian limbic system which needs to transform to be intuitive.

Dont worry too much of veiled attacks.
My explanation is clear.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Do you know that science and technology is used to make people go simply mad by transmitting non stop voice and thought messages and also label the victim as schizophrenic when he adversely reacts.? Yes it is being used on me too and is in operation right now. But fortunately my mind is able to neatly handle it and make it as one more failed and pathetic effort on their part to get back at me for the only reason of possessing natural telepathic abilities.
I was planning to write about this today.
Sravna..you have analysed it right to some extent...we do get bombarded with internet too as everything is reactively online today.

But as long as we keep thinking someone is out to get us we dont get better.

An over active amaygdala in the limbic system of the brain can give rise to symptoms mimicking schizophrenia.

One of the ways to handle that if by doing japa.

Even if you feel some are sending you thought waves( you could be right)...you can delete all those effects by doing japa using a japa mala.

Wake up early..try to do japa with japa mala in a semi lit room around 4am..close your eyes and choose a short mantra of your ishta devata.

Try it..may be 1st day you do japa for a short while..as time goes on increase the duration.

This is called repetitive memory exercises which slows down the transmission of thought waves from our own mind and also deletes the effect of thought waves of others.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I was planning to write about this today.
Sravna..you have analysed it right to some extent...we do get bombarded with internet too as everything is reactively online today.

But as long as we keep thinking someone is out to get us we dont get better.

An over active amaygdala in the limbic system of the brain can give rise to symptoms mimicking schizophrenia.

One of the ways to handle that if by doing japa.

Even if you feel some are sending you thought waves( you could be right)...you can delete all those effects by doing japa using a japa mala.

Wake up early..try to do japa with japa mala in a semi lit room around 4am..close your eyes and choose a short mantra of your ishta devata.

Try it..may be 1st day you do japa for a short while..as time goes on increase the duration.

This is called repetitive memory exercises which slows down the transmission of thought waves from our own mind and also deletes the effect of thought waves of others.
Thanks Renuka but do you know the extent of power given by them? It has gone astronomically high. I wouldnt be surprised if it is beyond ten power fifty plus watts because the spiritual energy that is produced to counter this seems to have mind boggling capabilities. That is almost non negativity has been reached in spite of such hugely humungous energy passed on by them.

Spirituality can only stop them and it is doing it in style.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Thanks Renuka but do you know the extent of power given by them? It has gone astronomically high. I wouldnt be surprised if it is beyond ten power fifty plus watts because the spiritual energy that is produced to counter this seems to have mind boggling capabilities. That is almost non negativity has been reached in spite of such hugely humungous energy passed on by them.

Spirituality can only stop them and it is doing it in style.
Sravna ..shift this to your spiritual energy thread..there it can be discussed in detail.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Dear Mr TBT - This thread is hijacked with nonsense. It has happened before. If you have comments on what I wrote I will respond...
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Mr TBT - This thread is hijacked with nonsense. It has happened before. If you have comments on what I wrote I will respond...
I hope you do see that I had earlier told Sravna to shift our discussion to his thread as I felt you feel its being hijacked

Worry not..Mr TBT would be able to able to discuss better without Sravna and my discussion.

Regards
Stay safe.
 

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