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How can we protect Indian Democracy from its own people ?

Jaykay767

Well-known member
How do you protect Indian Democracy from its own people ?

Power in any context is too important to be left to random selection that enables anyone or everyone to become PM, Cabinet ministers, etc..

People have repeated made wrong selections in choosing their leaders, not only in india, but around the world. And we have many failed nations as an example of this terrible situation.

Many destructive ideologies like in the USA, India, Nazi Germany, etc.. dominate the national consciousness and come to power to only wreak havoc. People get swayed by emotions and vote these parties to power which sidelines the "opposition, minorities, etc.."

And the most misguided demo and GST have taught everyone a highly visible and destructive and painful lesson to all.

One half of the nation suffers for no fault of theirs as the other half votes in such negative ideological parties to power.

So the issue then is how do we protect democracy from the people for whom it is supposed to serve ?? And restore it to ensure, that all its people are protected and their well being.

Some of the possible options -

1. Curtail the voters - so remove universal franchise and allow only "highly educated people" to vote for the leaders. This will help select educated, qualified and competent candidates to be voted for parliament. So basically say 20% of highly educated voters are allowed to vote. These voters will most likely vote for the independent candidate who is a highly educated professor instead of criminals put up by established parties.
2. Pre select qualified candidates by a competent panel for all constituencies and then put them up for people to vote. Similar to how board members are chosen by large shareholders and then put up for voting.
3. Nominate highly qualified technocrats only for executive positions - PM and cabinet. Parliament filled by elected representatives to ratify their selection, their policies, and their tenure will be reviewed every 2 yrs.
4. Any combination of the above...
5. Etc..

In short, folks, my point is power is way too important to be left to some random selection of elections based on parties with crazy ideology which have no relevance to people's livelyhood !!!

Power should be jealously guarded and bar set so high, only the best of the best rule the country !!
 

Naina_Marbus

Well-known member
How do you protect Indian Democracy from its own people ?

Power in any context is too important to be left to random selection that enables anyone or everyone to become PM, Cabinet ministers, etc..

People have repeated made wrong selections in choosing their leaders, not only in india, but around the world. And we have many failed nations as an example of this terrible situation.

Many destructive ideologies like in the USA, India, Nazi Germany, etc.. dominate the national consciousness and come to power to only wreak havoc. People get swayed by emotions and vote these parties to power which sidelines the "opposition, minorities, etc.."

And the most misguided demo and GST have taught everyone a highly visible and destructive and painful lesson to all.

One half of the nation suffers for no fault of theirs as the other half votes in such negative ideological parties to power.

So the issue then is how do we protect democracy from the people for whom it is supposed to serve ?? And restore it to ensure, that all its people are protected and their well being.

Some of the possible options -

1. Curtail the voters - so remove universal franchise and allow only "highly educated people" to vote for the leaders. This will help select educated, qualified and competent candidates to be voted for parliament. So basically say 20% of highly educated voters are allowed to vote. These voters will most likely vote for the independent candidate who is a highly educated professor instead of criminals put up by established parties.
2. Pre select qualified candidates by a competent panel for all constituencies and then put them up for people to vote. Similar to how board members are chosen by large shareholders and then put up for voting.
3. Nominate highly qualified technocrats only for executive positions - PM and cabinet. Parliament filled by elected representatives to ratify their selection, their policies, and their tenure will be reviewed every 2 yrs.
4. Any combination of the above...
5. Etc..

In short, folks, my point is power is way too important to be left to some random selection of elections based on parties with crazy ideology which have no relevance to people's livelyhood !!!

Power should be jealously guarded and bar set so high, only the best of the best rule the country !!
Interesting pipe dream if ever there was one: "How can we protect Indian Democracy from its own people ?"
Democracy, by definition, is a system of government by the whole population, typically through elected representatives. Democracy of the elite, by a subset of the population? What do you do with the present Constitution? Any proposals for rewriting it to incorporate such a "novel" idea? To carry out any of your, what most people will consider, fascist/nazistic suggestions (dressed up as novel or progressive), one has to first suspend the constitution, and then some 'intellectual' takes over with the support of the military which is well nigh impossible since recruits to the military are not going to be from your 20% elite crowd! And then a few "intellectuals" who are alter egos of Arvind Kejriwal, Sekhar Gupta,( Editor in Chief and Chairman of The Print), will be waiting in the wings to scuttle all well-intentioned efforts. Modi may be dumb and illiterate, but here is what the outside world thinks about him.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Representative democracy is the best among the worst choices of government.
Unfortunately, you get what you deserve. The whole system is corrupted.

Benevolent Dictator like Lee Kuan Yew is rare. Most of the time you end up with a dictator like Idi Amin.
Looking at the alternatives representative democracy is not bad.


Proposed solutions
The system of stochocracy has been proposed as an improved system compared to the system of representative democracy, where representatives are elected. Stochocracy aims to at least reduce this degradation by having all representatives appointed by lottery instead of by voting. Therefore, this system is also called lottocracy. The system was proposed by the writer Roger de Sizif in 1998 in his book La Stochocratie. Choosing officeholders by lot was also the standard practice in ancient Athenian democracy.

The rationale behind this practice was to avoid lobbying and electioneering by economic oligarchs.
The system of deliberative democracy is a mix between a majority ruled system and a consensus-based system. It allows for representative democracies or direct democracies to coexist with its system of governance, providing an initial advantage.


Or a single term elected representatives may also produce the same results.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Nothing extraordinary. South india was separate for most part of history. Vijayanagar empire encapsulates the geographical and cultural isolation and difference in history.

The best course would have been to split the country into the 4 presidencies - Madras, Bombay, Calcutta & Delhi. In al likelyhood, most of them would have prospered if not all.

Ps. Not intended to the above posters. To the Bakthas - pl do a favour, don't freak out on these ideas and start abusing, showing your stupidity and idioticity. In any discussion forums,people will come with different ideas, if you cannot add any value, don't derail it. Let's keep the discussion civil.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Now coming to the OP, folks, first off, it is clear the current system is a total disaster.

Criminals, illiterates, corrupt,etc..have taken over the system and are preventing the good and educated people to get into politics.

So we as a nation are on a deathly downward spiral.

For the survival of our nation and its people, we have to slowly and surely change our system. In today's social media era, these ideas "may" get traction over years and changes could happen.

Our fundamental problem, is the "majority voters", clearly they are voting on emotions, and their perception of facts !!. Even if we are unable to change the constitution, if majority voters can change their behaviour, and voting pattern, we can get significant success.

So need not be a pipe dream !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
for eg, as a group, we can recommend dynasts strongly as most 2nd gen and 3rd gen dynasts are we'll educated and highly articulative !! LOL. I know some right wingers will vehemently oppose.

But look at it this way, lesser of 2 evils, atleast, this will reduce the no. of uneducated, criminals, goondas, thugs, etc...coming to parliament and state assemblies.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
And we all could decide to encourage today's "well off" youngsters to get into politics, so over time, we have a better educated group of politicians to choose from.

So all is not lost, if we can continue to make small but significant improvements !!!
 

mkrishna100

Well-known member
Here’s an intellectual politician’s perspective on South India. You can’t help wondering if he would have let South India go its way if the South demanded to do so? So there is always the problem of what Geographically India means as a democratic country to these elitist intellectuals.
Before Partition Pakistan was a part of India and Dehli to Lahore and Delhi to Karachi trip was as frequent as Delhi to Mumbai or Delhi To Kolkatta . The dress food habits in both sides of the border were nearly the same . I have some friends in Delhi whose Parents lived in Pakistan before Partition and they used to say there were streets named as Bhatia street and other Punjabi names etc and Pakistan at that time used to be like Delhi . It is like Sri Lanka looks more like Tamil Nadu and Kerala and Bangaladesh looks more like West Bengal. and NE States will be more like China Nothing to be surprised about this . Of course Post Partition things have changed a lot .
 

Raman74

New member
Yes, Democracy is under threat; we need to protect it.

There is corruption everywhere though we have a well-established Vigilance and Anti-corruption wing to prevent it and to curb it.

There is misuse/abuse of power by the bureaucrats and elected politicians in decision making for their own self-fish interest

There is no freedom of speech…. Example, Mamata Banerji’s meme controversy and SC’s recent order.

If one goes through the list of movies that were banned during years, it will run to pages and similarly the books that were banned

The governments, which were voted to power took decisions and implemented welfare schemes having an eye on their own benefits, their own interest and to their own advantage

People say that the system has lost its very meaning I mean definition Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

It has gone from bad to worse nowadays.

What are the corrective measures……??

Of course, the Constitution of India was amended more than hundred times.

For every election, National Parties are coming up with the very same slogan ‘Garibi hatao’ !! Nothing changes which includes the slogans.

So, most believe that it is NOT democracy and it is nothing but hypocrisy….

To the Bakthas - pl do a favour, don't freak out on these ideas and start abusing, showing your stupidity and idioticity. In any discussion forums,people will come with different ideas, if you cannot add any value, don't derail it. Let's keep the discussion civil.
P.S: When we talk about democracy of the country, what is happening in this Forum...? Does this not sound rude and arrogance.

Thread opener, with a biased mind, talks about abusing, stupidity and idiotic…? Is this civil..?? This is nothing but maliciousness.

It is n open public Forum meant for all and so everyone has right to participate.

If anyone abuses, he is free to report to the Moderator who will immediately intervene and set right the issue

He has absolutely no business to describe others content as stupidity and idiotic.

Most in this Forum know that a stupid will see others as a stupid and similarly an idiot will define others as an idiot.LOL

We are not here to judge others postings or value their contents

Either try to agree or agree to disagree and you have no right to restrict others entry and thus try to prove that you are 'HOLIER-THAN-THOU'.

I can say that it is his Modus operandi and this will be repeated in all his threads which does mean that he has no backbone to face, no knowledge or wisdom to deal with contradictory opinions.

He expects everyone to agree with his narrow minded postings which are either Anti-Modi or Modi Bashing.

What will be the fate of a thread if everyone agree to the opinion of the thread opener and his half backed suggestions, ill conceived ideas, etc....???

One should try to respect others opinion which is the truest sign of maturity.
 
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krish44

Well-known member
Indian democracy under threat?

No way...

Whenever any leader acts extra constitutionally, people would find a way to bring him down.

If someone tries to run fast riding rough shod over the sentiments and good of the people, People would non

cooperate and scuttle fast changes however good it is.

Politicians can fudge data and project that india is shining .

India would remain the way it is with slow and minor changes.

Economy would continue to be sluggish, Rich poor divide will increase .

Those who work will get rich and those who do not or do minimal work will get subsidies to live on.

There might be a slight change in ideologies from slight left to right

Those at the center of normal distribution curve will lead a peaceful good life.

This middle class would not be bothered about ideologies, not vote and would do their own things.

We will not be like western demoocracy or the US.

Our indian democracy will continue with minor changes in people who are governing and those in

opposition

We will wait for the next generation to make whatever changes they want for their own good.

Our retired members can be critical or be indifferent. It does not make an earthly difference.

We will plod along with our version of democracy
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Yes, Democracy is under threat; we need to protect it.

There is corruption everywhere though we have a well-established Vigilance and Anti-corruption wing to prevent it and to curb it.

There is misuse/abuse of power by the bureaucrats and elected politicians in decision making for their own self-fish interest

There is no freedom of speech…. Example, Mamata Banerji’s meme controversy and SC’s recent order.

If one goes through the list of movies that were banned during years, it will run to pages and similarly the books that were banned

The governments, which were voted to power took decisions and implemented welfare schemes having an eye on their own benefits, their own interest and to their own advantage

People say that the system has lost its very meaning I mean definition Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

It has gone from bad to worse nowadays.

What are the corrective measures……??

Of course, the Constitution of India was amended more than hundred times.

For every election, National Parties are coming up with the very same slogan ‘Garibi hatao’ !! Nothing changes which includes the slogans.

So, most believe that it is NOT democracy and it is nothing but hypocrisy….



P.S: When we talk about democracy of the country, what is happening in this Forum...? Does this not sound rude and arrogance.

Thread opener, with a biased mind, talks about abusing, stupidity and idiotic…? Is this civil..?? This is nothing but maliciousness.

It is n open public Forum meant for all and so everyone has right to participate.

If anyone abuses, he is free to report to the Moderator who will immediately intervene and set right the issue

He has absolutely no business to describe others content as stupidity and idiotic.

Most in this Forum know that a stupid will see others as a stupid and similarly an idiot will define others as an idiot.LOL

We are not here to judge others postings or value their contents

Either try to agree or agree to disagree and you have no right to restrict others entry and thus try to prove that you are 'HOLIER-THAN-THOU'.

I can say that it is his Modus operandi and this will be repeated in all his threads which does mean that he has no backbone to face, no knowledge or wisdom to deal with contradictory opinions.

He expects everyone to agree with his narrow minded postings which are either Anti-Modi or Modi Bashing.

What will be the fate of a thread if everyone agree to the opinion of the thread opener and his half backed suggestions, ill conceived ideas, etc....???

One should try to respect others opinion which is the truest sign of maturity.
Mr. Raman Ji,
I see you are new to this forum from your joining date. Not sure if you have followed this forum earlier. I assume you are in your 70s age based on your name - Raman74.

Hence my Pranams !!

Having said this, I wish you had taken sometime to read the recent past. Number of threads have been derailed by a few people getting emotional and abusing others.
Hence my point, and no one is stopping people from posting good counters and alternate suggestions.

And would appreciate if you don't attempt to insult me by your needless comments. I can just point out that your comment actually applies to you more than others.

JK.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Now that we have one silly post out of the way, let's get back.

The recent terrible events in West Bengal precisely points to the fault lines in our democracy. The ruling dispensation is misusing power in the most blatant way.

People have to mount pressure on political parties to start fielding educated and moderate candidates for power.

India and our people cannot afford extreme views and violence !!!
 

KGRD

Member
How do you protect Indian Democracy from its own people ?

Power in any context is too important to be left to random selection that enables anyone or everyone to become PM, Cabinet ministers, etc..

People have repeated made wrong selections in choosing their leaders, not only in india, but around the world. And we have many failed nations as an example of this terrible situation.

Many destructive ideologies like in the USA, India, Nazi Germany, etc.. dominate the national consciousness and come to power to only wreak havoc. People get swayed by emotions and vote these parties to power which sidelines the "opposition, minorities, etc.."

And the most misguided demo and GST have taught everyone a highly visible and destructive and painful lesson to all.

One half of the nation suffers for no fault of theirs as the other half votes in such negative ideological parties to power.

So the issue then is how do we protect democracy from the people for whom it is supposed to serve ?? And restore it to ensure, that all its people are protected and their well being.

Some of the possible options -

1. Curtail the voters - so remove universal franchise and allow only "highly educated people" to vote for the leaders. This will help select educated, qualified and competent candidates to be voted for parliament. So basically say 20% of highly educated voters are allowed to vote. These voters will most likely vote for the independent candidate who is a highly educated professor instead of criminals put up by established parties.
2. Pre select qualified candidates by a competent panel for all constituencies and then put them up for people to vote. Similar to how board members are chosen by large shareholders and then put up for voting.
3. Nominate highly qualified technocrats only for executive positions - PM and cabinet. Parliament filled by elected representatives to ratify their selection, their policies, and their tenure will be reviewed every 2 yrs.
4. Any combination of the above...
5. Etc..

In short, folks, my point is power is way too important to be left to some random selection of elections based on parties with crazy ideology which have no relevance to people's livelyhood !!!

Power should be jealously guarded and bar set so high, only the best of the best rule the country !!
Brilliant idea, but who will bell the cat. Modi govt can and I hope will work in this direction to have a better intelligent creamy layor of executives, ministries who can vote and govern the country.
 

Balacs

Member
Yes, Democracy is under threat; we need to protect it.

There is corruption everywhere though we have a well-established Vigilance and Anti-corruption wing to prevent it and to curb it.

There is misuse/abuse of power by the bureaucrats and elected politicians in decision making for their own self-fish interest

There is no freedom of speech…. Example, Mamata Banerji’s meme controversy and SC’s recent order.

If one goes through the list of movies that were banned during years, it will run to pages and similarly the books that were banned

The governments, which were voted to power took decisions and implemented welfare schemes having an eye on their own benefits, their own interest and to their own advantage

People say that the system has lost its very meaning I mean definition Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

It has gone from bad to worse nowadays.

What are the corrective measures……??

Of course, the Constitution of India was amended more than hundred times.

For every election, National Parties are coming up with the very same slogan ‘Garibi hatao’ !! Nothing changes which includes the slogans.

So, most believe that it is NOT democracy and it is nothing but hypocrisy….



P.S: When we talk about democracy of the country, what is happening in this Forum...? Does this not sound rude and arrogance.

Thread opener, with a biased mind, talks about abusing, stupidity and idiotic…? Is this civil..?? This is nothing but maliciousness.

It is n open public Forum meant for all and so everyone has right to participate.

If anyone abuses, he is free to report to the Moderator who will immediately intervene and set right the issue

He has absolutely no business to describe others content as stupidity and idiotic.

Most in this Forum know that a stupid will see others as a stupid and similarly an idiot will define others as an idiot.LOL

We are not here to judge others postings or value their contents

Either try to agree or agree to disagree and you have no right to restrict others entry and thus try to prove that you are 'HOLIER-THAN-THOU'.

I can say that it is his Modus operandi and this will be repeated in all his threads which does mean that he has no backbone to face, no knowledge or wisdom to deal with contradictory opinions.

He expects everyone to agree with his narrow minded postings which are either Anti-Modi or Modi Bashing.

What will be the fate of a thread if everyone agree to the opinion of the thread opener and his half backed suggestions, ill conceived ideas, etc....???

One should try to respect others opinion which is the truest sign of maturity.
Well said! Using words like "stupid" and "idiot" reveal a vast inferiority complex. I have seen some of the filthiest and abusive language in YouTube comments but I certainly didn't expect it in a Brahmins' forum! The current appeasement of minorities is a well known fact. If a particular politician or politicians has the will to go against the tide, he becomes politically incorrect and his followers "Andh Bhakts". Unfortunately, the extraordinarily educated and sauve Dr. Manmohan Singh failed miserably while Shri Modi has won world wide admiration for his administrative capabilities and medals from the UAE and Saudi! He has displayed a shrewdness far beyond his run of the mill education and this has upset the "so-called" intellectuals who are baying for his blood. I would rather be an "Andh Bhakt" than support "dynamic young educated leaders" who spout different figures in one meeting after another - the cost of a Rafael aircraft being a case in point! How dare a Chaiwala aspire to be a Prime Minister of a country, when educated professionally qualified folks like us are waiting in the wings! Is it not the prerogative of "Aloo Dalo Sona Nikalo" (put potatoes in one end of the machine and take out gold nuggets from the other end) folks? Anyway, proud to be a Hindu and a Modi Bhakt!
 

ekaputra

Member
I have my reservations about curtailing the voters but I do favour curtailing the candidates.

If aspirants are required to pass an exam for a "filing clerk/ typist" post in a government department why not insist that MLA/ MP candidates first qualify through an exam covering the constitution, country's history, resources, agriculture, industrialisation etc. Possibly, politicians who encourage stone throwing, bus burning and other forms of vandalism and destruction of public (and private) property will be reduced to a minority in the parliament and state assemblies. Politicians and their supporters in Tamilnadu will immediately counter "Was Kamaraja Nadar educated?". Of course he was not a very educated man but then he took part in the freedom struggle - some proof of his love for the country and the people. I don't know if other states too have some "Kamaraj" that politicians can project to override this suggestion, else they will need to find some other reason to reject the idea of needing to qualify.

The idea of an exam for politicians will be rejected as absurd by the same people who will in other contexts say that learning is eternal. They judge and severely criticise ancient laws and scriptures (which are more than 2000 years old) by present day values and endlessly talk about the social injustice generated and how there is need for reform. Are they ready to recognise that the constitution of independent India also needs a lot of reform?
 
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