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Hinduisms days numbered in Tamil nadu?

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sankar100

New member
The number of churches, prayer halls and other religious building being built a alarming.
The number of conversions taking place is alarming.

In the schools and colleges - Children are being thought christian prayers, western history or wrong versions of our own history.

Our temples are controlled by the government. The money that is coming into these temples are being looted by the government. The lands that belong to the temples are being stolen.

Hindu institutions like our traditional knowledge, temples, learning centers , holy men (the real ones not phony ones) are being targeted.

However, the same in other religions are never questioned.

In kaniyakumari, majority are christians and now, hindus there can't even build a temple (not being allowed to), can't carry our a religious procession peacefully, can't celebrate hindu festivals (being intimidated) and the list goes on.

There is huge amount of funding coming in from overseas that is being funnelled into anti national activities. why is this not being monitored or questioned?

In kodunkulam, it is the church that is playing a central role, which is getting its orders from church leaders or religious leaders overseas. This is obviously political and no longer merely religious in nature. But just continues to go on.

Human rights violations against hindus are completely ignored while that is not the case if they are in other religions.

I could go on and on. However, I don't want to. I will put up more information on this later.

Agreed, there have been mistakes in the past but it is far less compared to the history or any other religion or anywhere else in the world.

Is this going to turn around or is this the end?
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
I don't know if there is cause for alarm as you seem to write. However, i may agree conversions to other religions are on the rise (although i do not have statistics and cannot prove this at all).

IMO, the solution is (a) start hindu missionary groups, who reconvert people back to hindusim, (b) remove varna system, allow vedavidya for all suitable children irespective of the caste of their parents, automatically people will come flocking towards hinduism...

My 1 cent.

Thanks.
 

sangom

Well-known member
The number of churches, prayer halls and other religious building being built a alarming.
The number of conversions taking place is alarming.

In the schools and colleges - Children are being thought christian prayers, western history or wrong versions of our own history.

Our temples are controlled by the government. The money that is coming into these temples are being looted by the government. The lands that belong to the temples are being stolen.

.....

Is this going to turn around or is this the end?

Shri sankar100,

What you are apprehending might happen imo. But the fault lies squarely with us, the hindus and, within the hindus, on the brahmins of all hues. The need of the hour is unity - absolute unity - among all the shades of hindus who should be capable of rising like a monolith against the various actions detrimental to hindus/hinduism, which you refer to it. But it is this unity that hindus and hinduism sadly lacks.

I observe that today almost all the non-brahmins (those not wearing poonals) come to temples in large numbers, and, although there may be many distinctions, divisions among them in terms of caste, sub-caste, etc., in the temples they represent one unified face of hinduism, at least to some extent. But the hindu maṭhams - and there are several of them each with small following - are yet to take any visible step to have an 'inclusive' approach and allow equal approach and freedom to all hindus into the maṭhams, etc.

We have a very long history of not less than 3500 years of caste-based society which epitomized discrimination and inequalities in the name of religion. The cumulative effect of such a long history cannot be completely undone in a jiffy, not even in decades unless there is some concerted attempt at bringing in the desired unification.

Unfortunately, the hindutva parties have veered off to seeking political power and have, therefore, become as much suspect in the eyes of the common man as the political parties are. The only alternative now available to us, imho, is for all hindus to come under one strong unified umbrella which has a very good organizational set up and financial strength, like the ISKCON or the Swaminarayan sect. But how many hindus will be ready to do that? There are thousands of sects and sub-sects, many more thousands of gods, deities, temples, etc. Have you any plan for unifying all hindus?

Then only can we take any further step.

But let me state unambiguously that I do not believe that hinduism or any other religion, for that matter, is the path to the Supreme.
 

aramakrishnan1

Active member
The number of churches, prayer halls and other religious building being built a alarming.
The number of conversions taking place is alarming.

In the schools and colleges - Children are being thought christian prayers, western history or wrong versions of our own history.

Our temples are controlled by the government. The money that is coming into these temples are being looted by the government. The lands that belong to the temples are being stolen.

Hindu institutions like our traditional knowledge, temples, learning centers , holy men (the real ones not phony ones) are being targeted.

However, the same in other religions are never questioned.

Dear Sankar,
Hinduism is sure to surge ahead. Follow Dr.Swamy and he is going to lead us in the near future.
All that is happening is due to the admission of Italian Lady into the country's administration. Their full time job is to brand Hindus as terrorists, intolerant people, defame / malign Hindu leaders, do Goebells propaganda through all possible channels. It is all coming to an end.
Due to strong affiliation of the converts to Saudi King / Vatican, the territorial integrity of Bharat is under threat.
 
N

nachi naga

Guest
I don't know if there is cause for alarm as you seem to write. However, i may agree conversions to other religions are on the rise (although i do not have statistics and cannot prove this at all).

IMO, the solution is (a) start hindu missionary groups, who reconvert people back to hindusim, (b) remove varna system, allow vedavidya for all suitable children irespective of the caste of their parents, automatically people will come flocking towards hinduism...

My 1 cent.

Thanks.

happy wish it was 2 cents :)
 

Iyyarooraan

Well-known member
The number of churches, prayer halls and other religious building being built a alarming.
The number of conversions taking place is alarming.

In the schools and colleges - Children are being thought christian prayers, western history or wrong versions of our own history.

Our temples are controlled by the government. The money that is coming into these temples are being looted by the government. The lands that belong to the temples are being stolen.

Hindu institutions like our traditional knowledge, temples, learning centers , holy men (the real ones not phony ones) are being targeted.

However, the same in other religions are never questioned.

In kaniyakumari, majority are christians and now, hindus there can't even build a temple (not being allowed to), can't carry our a religious procession peacefully, can't celebrate hindu festivals (being intimidated) and the list goes on.

There is huge amount of funding coming in from overseas that is being funnelled into anti national activities. why is this not being monitored or questioned?

In kodunkulam, it is the church that is playing a central role, which is getting its orders from church leaders or religious leaders overseas. This is obviously political and no longer merely religious in nature. But just continues to go on.

Human rights violations against hindus are completely ignored while that is not the case if they are in other religions.

I could go on and on. However, I don't want to. I will put up more information on this later.

Agreed, there have been mistakes in the past but it is far less compared to the history or any other religion or anywhere else in the world.

Is this going to turn around or is this the end?
Sanathana Dharmam is many thousand years old which name was short-cut by people who had no patience to spell that long name. Be that as it may. It will never die as all other religions derive strength from it, outwardly criticizing it and inwardly inspired by it. The danger is not from others but beware of our own cynics. Please note it is not the name we stubbornly hold on to. We will be holding on to the Dharma practised hereupto which may have outwardly appeared to have changed but basically tinged by time. At least this site will keep it alive thanks to the detractors.
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
There was a greeting message from Vatican during the recent Deepavali.While the festival of lights was welcomed the real emphasis was on
'Freedom of Religion' and freedom to convert to other Faith(i.e there should be no hindrance in attempts to convert people to Christian Faith).
 

sangom

Well-known member
There was a greeting message from Vatican during the recent Deepavali.While the festival of lights was welcomed the real emphasis was on
'Freedom of Religion' and freedom to convert to other Faith(i.e there should be no hindrance in attempts to convert people to Christian Faith).

Shri Krishnamurthy,

Hinduism is a religion which emphasizes and thrives on disparities and differences, while Christianity, and more so, Islam, have at least a facade of equality of all before God. Their scriptures - Bible, The Koran - are accessible to all though in actual practice there may be social segregation within the Christian and Muslim societies based on wealth, race, language, etc.

Besides, there is a powerful priesthood under autarchic control among the catholics though such a feature is not present for other christian denominations and in Islam. But in hinduism there is no such unified priesthood structure; what we have is the very large number of saffron-clad crowd talking different things and each going his/her way. Thus, hindu religion has neither the innate strength of unity of its adherents, loftiness and attractiveness to modern minds or a strong priesthood to safeguard its continuance. The only thing that can be boasted is, in the words of iyya,

Sanathana Dharmam is many thousand years old..... It will never die...

Optimism is, after all, a good thing!
 

aramakrishnan1

Active member
Shri Krishnamurthy,<br>
<br>
Hinduism is a religion which emphasizes and thrives on disparities and differences, while Christianity, and more so, Islam, have at least a facade of equality of all before God. Their scriptures - Bible, The Koran - are accessible to all though in actual practice there may be social segregation within the Christian and Muslim societies based on wealth, race, language, etc.<br>
<br>
Besides, there is a powerful priesthood under autarchic control among the catholics though such a feature is not present for other christian denominations and in Islam. But in hinduism there is no such unified priesthood structure; what we have is the very large number of saffron-clad crowd talking different things and each going his/her way. Thus, hindu religion has neither the innate strength of unity of its adherents, loftiness and attractiveness to modern minds or a strong priesthood to safeguard its continuance.

How is everyone equal to God ? Let me assume that Jesus is the Lord of the Universe and every one is equal to God. Then why is a person born in a desert and another in a flourishing green carpet land. Why is a person born rich and another begging for even basic needs. How is that all are equal in the eyes of God. Lord Jesus has spoken about equality, but his creation is full of disparities. God does not do justice at all. Like all children in a class wearing school uniform, all men and women should be alike with typical standard qualities, all the land should be flat and plain. All the place should have a green carpet. One person is travelling in aeroplane and reaches his destination in 2 hours whereas the other one travels the same distance in train and takes 48 hours undergoing lot of miseries along the way. Everyone should be travelling by aeroplane in a Air conditioned room and it should be pleasure for everyone and misery for none. DOES CHRISTIANITY / ISLAM HAVE THE ANSWER TO THIS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION. But Hinduism in as many of it forms has the clear and logical answer.
 

aramakrishnan1

Active member
Shri Krishnamurthy,

Hinduism is a religion which emphasizes and thrives on disparities and differences, while Christianity, and more so, Islam, have at least a facade of equality of all before God. Their scriptures - Bible, The Koran - are accessible to all though in actual practice there may be social segregation within the Christian and Muslim societies based on wealth, race, language, etc.

Besides, there is a powerful priesthood under autarchic control among the catholics though such a feature is not present for other christian denominations and in Islam. But in hinduism there is no such unified priesthood structure; what we have is the very large number of saffron-clad crowd talking different things and each going his/her way. Thus, hindu religion has neither the innate strength of unity of its adherents, loftiness and attractiveness to modern minds or a strong priesthood to safeguard its continuance.

The thought process has stopped the day the HOLY books are written and their authentication stamped. It was said that there won't be any other God send after a particular prophet. No one can imagine how wud the God look alike, what are his qualities, what are his many names and so many other unanswered questions as the Holy books are said to contain everything.
Religion should only be a way or path helping each individual towards realisation of the Supreme Reality and not a dogma. Going by that definition, only Hinduism qualifies as the real religion for a spiritual aspirant.
Many Rishis, Munis, Siddhars, Bhakts have been born in Bharat and Adi Sankara, Saibaba, Kanchi Paramacharya, Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi, Swami Raghavendra, Ramanuja acharya have all taken birth recently within the 1000 years that we live in.
Catholicism requires a CHurch establishment without it wud have been history now. Even the church is a political establishment without having any spiritual knowledge within it. It can appoint to the maximum some Bishops / cardinals / assign sainthood to someone. The CHURCH cannot elevate even one soul towards the Supreme reality. Common people must be inspired to lead their life in the spiritual path and not brainwashed to have faith on a book.
 
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aramakrishnan1

Active member
Shri Krishnamurthy,<br><br>
<br><br>
Hinduism is a religion which emphasizes and thrives on disparities and differences, while Christianity, and more so, Islam, have at least a facade of equality of all before God. Their scriptures - Bible, The Koran - are accessible to all though in actual practice there may be social segregation within the Christian and Muslim societies based on wealth, race, language, etc.<br><br>
<br><br>
Besides, there is a powerful priesthood under autarchic control among the catholics though such a feature is not present for other christian denominations and in Islam. But in hinduism there is no such unified priesthood structure; what we have is the very large number of saffron-clad crowd talking different things and each going his/her way. Thus, hindu religion has neither the innate strength of unity of its adherents, loftiness and attractiveness to modern minds or a strong priesthood to safeguard its continuance.
<br>
<br>
How is everyone equal to God ? Let me assume that Jesus is the Lord of the Universe and every one is equal to God. Then why is a person born in a desert and another in a flourishing green carpet land. Why is a person born rich and another begging for even basic needs. How is that all are equal in the eyes of God. Lord Jesus has spoken about equality, but his creation is full of disparities. God does not do justice at all. Like all children in a class wearing school uniform, all men and women should be alike with typical standard qualities, all the land should be flat and plain. All the place should have a green carpet. One person is travelling in aeroplane and reaches his destination in 2 hours whereas the other one travels the same distance in train and takes 48 hours undergoing lot of miseries along the way. Everyone should be travelling by aeroplane in a Air conditioned room and it should be pleasure for everyone and misery for none. DOES CHRISTIANITY / ISLAM HAVE THE ANSWER TO THIS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION. But Hinduism in as many of it forms has the clear and logical answer.
 
R

ramani.l

Guest
Awake and be ALERT

pranams

There are more than 20 states in India. Each states got so many castes with more divisions inside. more languages for (though many officially claiming Hindi ) for getting dis-united. Nobody here ready to call themselves as Hindu except in the case of foreign countries where Indians living, due to situation united in calling themselves as Indians. More and more Hindus in India rather prefer to identify themselves more by their language or state than Hindu . Can any one tell how many of us really call our self as I am x Hindu coming from northern part etc. unfortunately more and more we recognize people as Tamilian, Malayalee,Telgu Hindi etc. To add insult to injury we further stoop down to identify with particular branch of particular caste. I don;t know why we keep on putting finger on others rather try to understand and analyzes certain basic aspect of our life style which has undergone a sea-saw change suiting individual selfishness on aping WESTERN STYLE.Of course so many good qualities do available with westerners which we are not interested to not even ape if not follow except the bad words(because these are used to excuse oneself of his-her mistake rather than realising one;s own mistake)SORRY.UNLESS WE HAVE A COMMON LANGUAGE,COMMON INTEREST TOWARDS MAINTAINING OUR IDENTITY AS INDIANS,WITH A REAL CONCERN AND HUMANNESS-TOWARDS FELLOW HINDUS WHO ARE REALLY POOR,UNEDUCATED FIGHTING FOR DAY TO DAY LIFE, NO DOUBT IN FUTURE THERE WILL BE ONLY SO CALLED HINDUS. I hope at least FUTURE HINDUS (TODAY'S YOUTH) WILL SPEND JUST LITTLE TIME TO THINK ABOUT THE ABOVE.
 

sangom

Well-known member
How is everyone equal to God ? Let me assume that Jesus is the Lord of the Universe and every one is equal to God. Then why is a person born in a desert and another in a flourishing green carpet land. Why is a person born rich and another begging for even basic needs. How is that all are equal in the eyes of God. Lord Jesus has spoken about equality, but his creation is full of disparities. God does not do justice at all. Like all children in a class wearing school uniform, all men and women should be alike with typical standard qualities, all the land should be flat and plain. All the place should have a green carpet. One person is travelling in aeroplane and reaches his destination in 2 hours whereas the other one travels the same distance in train and takes 48 hours undergoing lot of miseries along the way. Everyone should be travelling by aeroplane in a Air conditioned room and it should be pleasure for everyone and misery for none. DOES CHRISTIANITY / ISLAM HAVE THE ANSWER TO THIS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION. But Hinduism in as many of it forms has the clear and logical answer.


I don't know whether Jesus is considered the Lord of the universe. When in the cross he is believed to have said "Father, forgive them for they do not know what they do". So, I believe Jesus can at best be the son only, in the Father-son-Holy ghost trinity. If there is any supporting evidence for Jesus being the Lord of the universe, please furnish here.

AFAIK, in both Christianity and Islam, the inequalities among creation - all that you describe - are just the absolute discretion of God, the creator and man cannot question, complain or even try ti find out the reasons therefor — a position similar to what was laid down for the sudras according to the Dharmasastras. Hence, those religions don't need to explain these inequalities; may be we can take them as sudra religions.[SIZE=+2][/SIZE]
 

aramakrishnan1

Active member
QUOTE
Besides, there is a powerful priesthood under autarchic control among the catholics though such a feature is not present for other christian denominations and in Islam. But in hinduism there is no such unified priesthood structure; what we have is the very large number of saffron-clad crowd talking different things and each going his/her way.
UNQUOTE
Powerful priesthood is needed to impose / thrust some concept upon others who do not know it. Hinduism did not need such a structure, but still thriving in as many various forms as they are. Large number of Saffron- clad talking different things and each going in his / her own way is the beauty of the religion. The Supreme Reality even cannot be defined fully by 1000 names. The forms, names, attributes are infinite. The number of ways to attain the Supreme reality is also innumerable and each person can discover one with his own attempt. There is no need to re-invent the wheel and hence the scriptures form the platform on which the individual experiments can be built upon. Reading the scriptures without the basic devotion is like reading music notes by a news reader like news reading. From a Kula devatha guarding a family / parampara, a Grama devatha guarding the village to the Perumdeivams in Divya Kshethrams, Hinduism is multi-faceted satisfying the spiritual needs of every type of person.
What could not be done by a well organised Authoritarian church has been done by Mahans like Kanchi Paramacharya, Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Appar, Thirugnanasambandar, Manickavasagar, The Azhwars, Acharyas, Saibaba, Ramana Maharishi, Shri.Raghavendra, and the lots and lots of Rishis, Munis and SIddhars. Supreme Reality, the Paramathma has been very kind to the land of Bharat and many others would be born to uphold the eternal truth.
 

aramakrishnan1

Active member
QUOTE
In both Christianity and Islam, the inequalities among creation - all that you describe - are just the absolute discretion of God, the creator and man cannot question, complain or even try ti find out the reasons therefor — a position similar to what was laid down for the sudras according to the Dharmasastras. Hence, those religions don't need to explain these inequalities; may be we can take them as sudra religions.
UNQUOTE
I wish to explain Sudra and quote my Internet Guru below :

sudra is not the person. it is varna. a person displaying sudra characteristic may becalled sudra for that time. likewise, brahmana is one who displays characteristic of brahmana varna, which depends on his karma samskara determined gunas. it is not permanent.
Varna applies to all people who are dharmik, conscious of what is correct. Those who identify with physical body and acts with selfish motives are avarna, mleccha,untouchables.
Take the case of Ratnakara. he too was a mleccha, robber in jungle, avarna. Later he developed dharmik consciousness and became Maharshi Valmiki, a brahma jnani, a brahmana.
Varna is not something people are branded with when they are send out from the otherworld. It is the expressed behavior of a person here that determines varna.
Varna is not something mandatory or enforced. It is, expressed behavior of a person, which again, changes with time, that determine varna.
sudra is one who is motivated by the purushartha of kama. when u r motivated by kama, u r sudra too.
when u act motivated by desire to uphold dharma, u r kshatriya.if motivated by materials, their working, production, u r vyshya. when u act motivated by desire to know urself, know the basis of all that is seen, experienced, u r brahmana.
when not motivated by the above/when action motivated by selfishness/negative reasons, the person is avarna. mleccha.
actions form habit, which shapes character, which defines life. people, thru continuous actions motivated by predominant varna in them come to exemplify the varna. However, it is not transmitted to progeny. children develop their own character, though influenced by parent/environment. It is not community that decides varna. Rather, varna is the basis for company, and community.
a person in pursuit of realization of brahma sees through the temporality of external appearances and is not distracted by kama or artha or even dharma. a person passionate about dharmikata or righteousness, likewise sees through the impermanence of external appearances and is not swayed by kama or artha. A person engaged by materials is dealing with more concrete thing than mental imagination. A person swayed by kama is enamoured by appearance. The last mentioned state is not conducive to receiving jnana and so sudra is not given veda jnana. The same sudra or even mleccha, if develops dharmikata, like Ratnakara did, can acquire brahma jnana.
varna changes with behavior. it depends on variation in gunas. which again depends on karma samskara. Pattern of behavior that emerges, through repeated pursuits of a particular kind determine the predominant varna of a person. It can be reinforced or changed. nishkama karma exhaust karma samskara and raise the dominant motivation of the person from kama to artha, then to dharma and finally, moksha.

practices or customs have little to do with varna. a chandala was recognised as brahma jnani by Adi Shankaracharya
 
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aramakrishnan1

Active member
Every birth in this world is earned by a Athma (with associated karma samskara) and it is entirely merit based. GOD can be praised as the Supreme Reality only if he maintains justice in the universe conducted by him. Kanian Poongundranaar's supreme vaakya "Theedhum Nandrum Pirar thara Vaara" sums the whole justice system of God in the simplest sentence.
 

aramakrishnan1

Active member
Hinduism is a religion which emphasizes and thrives on disparities and differences, while Christianity, and more so, Islam, have at least a facade of equality of all before God. !

Equality in the truest sense is only in Hinduism where it is believed that every Atma (Soul) in all the human and other living beings is the Supreme Reality or the Ishwar himself. Hindus worship an Elephant God, a snake god, a monkey God, a Koorma Avatar, a Varaha avathar, Narasimha(man + lion) avatar.
All other equality in dress / rituals / holy book is in no measure equivalent to the understanding of Hinduism.
 

sangom

Well-known member
What could not be done by a well organised Authoritarian church has been done by Mahans like Kanchi Paramacharya, Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Appar, Thirugnanasambandar, Manickavasagar, The Azhwars, Acharyas, Saibaba, Ramana Maharishi, Shri.Raghavendra, and the lots and lots of Rishis, Munis and SIddhars. Supreme Reality, the Paramathma has been very kind to the land of Bharat and many others would be born to uphold the eternal truth.

Well, if you are so confident I think you will be one hindu not bothered by all that was written in the OP regarding Christianity slowly swallowing hindus in large numbers. So far so good!
 

Iyyarooraan

Well-known member
Many times over many have discussed the disparities within other world religions. Indians living abroad, some of them, see only incoherence in multi-lingual societies here. Surely, they must be very happy enjoying the seemingly coherent life there; wearing a full dress (excluding the ladies), say good morning, good evening and thank you, etc. and of course calling on God on Sundays make to feel you are comfortable with life while the relatives back home, you are aware, are envying you for being choosen. Nobody questions anybody nor contends your view point there unless you are assigned to do.

In the West, work-culture does not allow anybody to think differently except in money matters. A good many Indians not only South Indians, but people of different origins of india also feel that this is the country to live in and die (cremated) notwithstanding its incoherence, linguistic differences, and other passing mutual animosities. You do not have a life membership to call yourself a Hindu. Different “Mutt Heads” visit same group of people and the ordinary man, who does not know Vedas or any Upanishads, but only have heard of them, glean the good from them and ignore the “mutt-heads” till their next visit. You are baptized at home by your parent who has the prime right. You belong to a group which your parents or somebody from the family might have made known to you; otherwise, you align with some group convenient to you and you are comfortable with. So what? You do not move about as a branded religionist, but only following the practices followed by your group-mates. Outwardly you attach yourself to the “enlightened group”, inwardly following your own path. Compared to other religionists you have assured freedom of action and constantly aware you are the result of your past and your present will decide your future ‘avatar’. Perhaps it is this freedom that has allowed some people to “change” their faith or even “trade” it. Other religions may have people like this, but they would dread to admit that for fear of consequences.

Politically India is one only after British ruled. But before that India was in fragments. In spite of that, there were people going from Trivandrum to Kasi and people from the north have been on pilgrimage to the south. If you want proof for unity of Indian mind, search yourself gentlemen. If you do not find, I am sorry, then you have a disturbed mind. Seek solace. People are awaiting “Jesus’ coming”! The Killer is god and the killed is unfaithful? The world will go on with or without religious texts upon individuals’ choosing. And that is what the so called “Hindus” have been doing.

It is really a wonder that people with mountains of knowledge are sitting on it but pretend to carry the mountains on their shoulders. I am now inclined to think that knowledge can help you to make mountain out of a molehill or vice verse. Maybe this is a threshold to attain ‘nirvaana’. We have been religious without being compelled to be so. When a cat closes its eyes it might think the world has ended. Poor cat will find the world again as it opens its eyes.
 

aramakrishnan1

Active member
Well, if you are so confident I think you will be one hindu not bothered by all that was written in the OP regarding Christianity slowly swallowing hindus in large numbers. So far so good!
All along the evolution of this civilisation, Deva - Asura (mleccha) conflicts have remained and this is one type of similar conflict. Devas are trying to resist to the best of what they can do. Never to give up the struggle even though the Eternal Truth has it's inherent strength to remain established.
 

Nara

Well-known member
I don't know whether Jesus is considered the Lord of the universe. When in the cross he is believed to have said "Father, forgive them for they do not know what they do".
It is my understanding that Jesus is as much lord as Father in Haven. The trinity is God
both collectively and individually. They are non-different from one another.

Cheers!
 

Nara

Well-known member
....What could not be done by a well organised Authoritarian church has been done by Mahans like Kanchi Paramacharya, Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Appar, Thirugnanasambandar, Manickavasagar, The Azhwars, Acharyas, Saibaba, Ramana Maharishi, Shri.Raghavendra, and the lots and lots of Rishis, Munis and SIddhars. Supreme Reality, the Paramathma has been very kind to the land of Bharat and many others would be born to uphold the eternal truth.
May be I am not understanding what you are saying aramakrishnan1, so correct me if I am wrong. Even though you start out saying Catholics have strong autocratic leadership and not other denominations or Islam, you still go on to contrast Hinduism as fundamentally different from other religions and their sub-sects.

I think the reality is much more nuanced. The different denominations of Hinduism, mainly Shiavam and Sri Vaishnavam in Tamil Nadu, were at each others throats all along, and to this day. During the time of Ramanuja, Shaivites came for his life, and today they accuse SVs of narrow mindedness. SVs in return sang about Shaivites thus, தாழ்சடையோன் சொற்கற்ற சோம்பர். This disdain for Sahivites is still quite virulent among SVs -- when one SV sanyasee met Sankarachariyar he was roundly criticized by the orthodoxy for coming face to face with a Brahmin not wearing poonal.

The animosity among different Christian denominations is no less intense. Some evangelical Christians accuse the pope as no less than devil incarnate. The Baptists condemn anyone who does not undergo a full body dunk as part of baptism is bound for hell, which means everyone other than the Baptists is headed there for eternity.

The differences among different sects of Islam is, if anything, more intense. The Sunnis and Shiites are mortal enemies. Ahmadees and Sufis, well they are not even Muslims for the Sunnis.

The point is, practitioners of any sub-sect of any religion have no rational basis to criticize other religions and their sub-sects. Anyone who wants to criticize one religion must first forsake their own religion first, otherwise, their criticism will amount to nothing more than hypocrisy.

Cheers!
 
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Nara

Well-known member
... Kanian Poongundranaar's supreme vaakya "Theedhum Nandrum Pirar thara Vaara" sums the whole justice system of God in the simplest sentence.
Poongunranar's yadum oore yaavarum kelir has nothing to do with justice system of God. It is about the ephemeral nature of life itself.

யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்
தீதும் நன்றும் பிறர்தர வாரா,
நோதலும் தணிதலும் அவற்றோ ரன்ன
சாதலும் புதுவது அன்றே, வாழ்தல்
இனிதுஎன மகிழ்ந்தன்றும் இலமே, முனிவின்,
இன்னா தென்றலும் இலமே, மின்னொடு
வானம் தண்துளி தலைஇ, ஆனாது
கல்பொருது இரங்கும் மல்லற் பேர்யாற்று
நீர்வழிப் படூஉம் புணைபோல, ஆருயிர்
முறைவழிப் படூஉம் என்பது திறவோர்
காட்சியின் தெளிந்தனம் ஆகலின், மாட்சியின்
பெரியோரை வியத்தலும் இலமே;
சிறியோரை இகழ்தல் அதனினும் இலமே.

As is evident from the text, this is not about divine justice, but simply about reality of life and the sage advice that we must not be overawed by those who are thought to be great and, even more importantly, never dismiss those who are thought to amount to not very much.

We find this line of thought further expanded by Thiruvalluvar in his chapter called ஊழ்.

It is simply self evident that all this has nothing to do with god and his divine justice.

Cheers!
 
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