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Grounding in holistic knowledge and Original solutions for Practical Problems

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sravna

Well-known member
Finally I have decided to get into action. I am going to start a website that will attempt to do what I have been saying- creation of holistic knowledge , that is to see the relations between various diverse areas and how they form a coherent knowledge.

We know that maths and science are related in that maths represents the concepts of science in an abstract way. In a sense by itself the symbols, and procedures of Maths do not lend themselves to any real understanding unless seen in the light of some physical phenomenon.

There is also a relationship between Science and Spirituality in that in a sense science is an abstract representation of Spiritual truths. There is also a relationship between Science and Spirituality in that in a sense science is an abstract representation of Spiritual truths. Though for us physical phenomena do seem to make sense, one may argue there is a hidden purpose behind physical phenomena and that is what spiritual truths are all about.

I am going to pursue this direction and try to relate the triad of Maths, Science and Spirituality especially the latter two. The above work will be done at a fundamental level so that even children starting from the primary level have something to learn.

The parallel work will be to start some original discussions for many practical problems in Science, Maths, Spirituality, Politics and Economics. Innovative ideas will be sought to be developed in these areas which are also practically feasible.

Since I have an existing work in coaching students for entrance exams, I plan to devote half of my time to this task. I hope something useful will take shape . Most importantly I encourage participation from willing people.
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sravna,

I wonder if you will agree with me but I am starting to get a feeling that thinking of spirituality is getting very selfish.

Reading the newspapers these days and reading about beheading after beheading ..one starts to question is spirituality a selfish pursuit?

I find it very hard to start thinking about my personal 'spiritual' quest anymore.

So do you really want to relate everything to spirituality again and again?

We have spent almost our whole human life in Becoming...training ourselves to Become rather than just Be.

I feel we just have to Be..to Be is human..to Be is honest..to Be is to feel..to Be is to love.

But we spend our time Becoming..its all a facade..to Become is not being our true self.

I feel the problems plaguing humanity today becso no one wants to just Be!

Everyone wants to Become..to Become is to deny our true selves.

The core of every human is the same..even in the most brutal of killers there is love..but it has been corrupted by the desire to Become.

This is where religion actually corrupts the true human..the true human was born without fear..
a child isnt afraid of Being..but as a child grows society and religion expects him to Become..so he Becomes..forgetting his true self of just Being.

So Sravna..the world does not need any more changes..that is actually very dangerous..we just have to Be..we should never think of Becoming..Just Be!
 
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sangom

Well-known member
Finally I have decided to get into action. I am going to start a website that will attempt to do what I have been saying- creation of holistic knowledge , that is to see the relations between various diverse areas and how they form a coherent knowledge.

We know that maths and science are related in that maths represents the concepts of science in an abstract way. In a sense by itself the symbols, and procedures of Maths does not lend itself to any real understanding unless seen in the light of some physical phenomenon.

There is also a relationship between Science and Spirituality in that in a sense science is an abstract representation of Spiritual truths. Though for us physical phenomenon does seem to make sense, one may argue there is a hidden purpose behind physical phenomenon and that is what spiritual truths are all about.

I am going to pursue this direction and try to relate the triad of Maths, Science and Spirituality especially the latter two. The above work will be done at a fundamental level so that even children starting from the primary level have something to learn.

The parallel work will be to start some original discussions for many practical problems in Science, Maths, Spirituality, Politics and Economics. Innovative ideas will be sought to be developed in these areas which are also practically feasible.

Since I have an existing work in coaching students for entrance exams, I plan to devote half of my time to this task. I hope something useful will take shape . Most importantly I encourage participation from willing people.

Dear Shri Sravna,

My best wishes to you for all success in your effort. But I have a few observations to make.

1. "Spirituality" by which term I mean an inquiry into the very nature of our being and of the entire Universe around us, is something that, I am convinced, can come only, repeat only, by deep self-contemplation or nididhyāsana, recommended by Adi Shankara. Religions might have been kind of "primers" for the inquiring human mind in those early stages of human development, but they lose their relevance once a person is truly into the understanding of the Absolute Truth.

2. Even if we are not brahmajñānis, it will be easy to see that the very same Absolute Truth or Brahman is what functions within the physical bodies and give rise to our individual identities linked to our own physical bodies, and, also, at the same time gives rise to the feeling of "I"-ness (ahaṃkāra), egotism which is an adjunct to the "I"-ness, the you-&-I separation and so on, all of which go under the label of māyā.

Since this universe itself is a creation for us because the Brahman works through our physical bodies and the indriyas, any amount of knowledge about this (seeming) universe and the principles, formulae and mathematics which seem to govern the working of this universe, will not be able to lead one on to the realization that there is a brahman nor will it help in our gaining knowledge about that brahman.

3. I feel, therefore, that it will be well-nigh impossible to link spirituality on the one hand with science, maths, politics, economics, etc., on the other.

4. For a person striving to have real brahmajñāna, the first step is to tide over (or surf over) the teachings of religions and the most crucial point here is to completely get over the (erroneous) notion of an outsider God of some description or the other, who will, under certain conditions, come to your help, grant your innermost desires, grant boons and so on. Once this is done, a person will be able to go further, as in the dhyānaśloka of śivakavacaṃ,

हृत्पुण्डरीकान्तर सन्निविष्टम्
स्वतेजसाव्याप्त नभोऽवकाशम् |
अतीन्द्रियं सूक्ष्ममनन्तमाद्यम्
ध्यायॆत् परानन्दमयं महॆशम् ||


(hṛtpuṇḍarīkāntara sanniviṣṭam
svatejasāvyāpta nabho:'vakāśam
atīndriyaṃ sūkṣmamanantamādyam
dhyāyet parānandamayaṃ maheśam)


what is inside the lotus that is our heart, and which, by means of its own power (tejas) has spread through the entire space (nabhas), which is beyond the indriyas, is minute (sūkṣmam) and has neither a beginning nor any end (anantamādyam), let one contemplate (dhyāyet) on that Supreme Lord(maheśa) who is supreme bliss (parānandamayaṃ).

I request you to consider the above points sincerely.
 

tks

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sravna,

My best wishes to you for all success in your effort. But I have a few observations to make.

1. "Spirituality" by which term I mean an inquiry into the very nature of our being and of the entire Universe around us, is something that, I am convinced, can come only, repeat only, by deep self-contemplation or nididhyāsana, recommended by Adi Shankara. Religions might have been kind of "primers" for the inquiring human mind in those early stages of human development, but they lose their relevance once a person is truly into the understanding of the Absolute Truth.

2. Even if we are not brahmajñānis, it will be easy to see that the very same Absolute Truth or Brahman is what functions within the physical bodies and give rise to our individual identities linked to our own physical bodies, and, also, at the same time gives rise to the feeling of "I"-ness (ahaṃkāra), egotism which is an adjunct to the "I"-ness, the you-&-I separation and so on, all of which go under the label of māyā.

Since this universe itself is a creation for us because the Brahman works through our physical bodies and the indriyas, any amount of knowledge about this (seeming) universe and the principles, formulae and mathematics which seem to govern the working of this universe, will not be able to lead one on to the realization that there is a brahman nor will it help in our gaining knowledge about that brahman.

3. I feel, therefore, that it will be well-nigh impossible to link spirituality on the one hand with science, maths, politics, economics, etc., on the other.

4. For a person striving to have real brahmajñāna, the first step is to tide over (or surf over) the teachings of religions and the most crucial point here is to completely get over the (erroneous) notion of an outsider God of some description or the other, who will, under certain conditions, come to your help, grant your innermost desires, grant boons and so on. Once this is done, a person will be able to go further, as in the dhyānaśloka of śivakavacaṃ,

हृत्पुण्डरीकान्तर सन्निविष्टम्
स्वतेजसाव्याप्त नभोऽवकाशम् |
अतीन्द्रियं सूक्ष्ममनन्तमाद्यम्
ध्यायॆत् परानन्दमयं महॆशम् ||


(hṛtpuṇḍarīkāntara sanniviṣṭam
svatejasāvyāpta nabho:'vakāśam
atīndriyaṃ sūkṣmamanantamādyam
dhyāyet parānandamayaṃ maheśam)


what is inside the lotus that is our heart, and which, by means of its own power (tejas) has spread through the entire space (nabhas), which is beyond the indriyas, is minute (sūkṣmam) and has neither a beginning nor any end (anantamādyam), let one contemplate (dhyāyet) on that Supreme Lord(maheśa) who is supreme bliss (parānandamayaṃ).

I request you to consider the above points sincerely.

Sri Sangom

Excellent and insightful post, indeed.

I usually seek out and read what you write even if I agree or disagree.
 
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OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

The reason for me to set out on this task is make one understand the logic behind the spiritual truths. I think it is necessary for one to understand the reasoning behind a truth first before one starts to believe in it. Actually if the understanding is deep enough it also becomes a belief soon. But self realization will come only after one employs his own mind and comes to the conclusion about reality.

So my real goal is not anything else but only to try to figure out the spiritual import of the phenomena of the world and help one to understand the logic in spirituality.
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

Is not our existence for becoming and not just be?

Dear Sravna,


Our whole life is just about adding layers and layers around us..like an ant hill..concealing what lies within.

Life is not about becoming,,,its just being. When we already Are..what is there to Become?

Its just that we are wrongly taught to become something else..to emulate someone else and in that process totally forget our true nature.

That is why I feel any new type of format for understanding especially linking it every step with spirituality is dangerous to the mind.

We dont need ant hill of personas anymore..we need to come out of that Ant Hill and just rediscover our true selves.

To be is Original..To Become is an Illusion....To Be is Freedom..To Become is Bondage.


I like the lyrics of this song...its totally describes how much we have wasted our time trying to be something else.

What ever we say is something we read....we are getting old but still not getting anywhere



Afraid to lose control
And caught up in this world
I've wasted time, I've wasted breath
I think I've thought myself to death



I think with my heart and I move with my head
I open my mouth and it's something I've read
I stood at this door before, I'm told
But a part of me knows that I'm growing too old



 
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OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,


Our whole life is just about adding layers and layers around us..like an ant hill..concealing what lies within.

Life is not about becoming,,,its just being. When we already Are..what is there to Become?
......

Dear Renuka,

I am talking of one's growth which can happen only when we become and not be. The growth is for the better and "being" actually is false understanding of self and stalling without growth. It is for those to whom the logic in spirituality can appeal, such knowledge can be of benefit.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

I am talking of one's growth which can happen only when we become and not be. The growth is for the better and "being" actually is false understanding of self and stalling without growth. It is for those to whom the logic in spirituality can appeal, such knowledge can be of benefit.

Dear Sravna,

There is nothing to grow..to grow is to transient..to be is eternal.
 
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OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

To rid of maya one needs to acquire knowledge, right? In the physical world you constantly change and only after that the eternal nature is realized. What is the point in being under false notion even if in reality one is eternal? So physical world is all about changes and changes will happen constantly.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

To rid of maya one needs to acquire knowledge, right?

As long there is the need to acquire that means we are still under the grip of Maya.

There is no need to get rid of Maya..the more we try to get rid of something...the more its grip on us tightens.

Its like this..just say Maya sends us a letter..we have the option to not receive it and it becomes Return To Sender.

Maya wants us to get rid of it and we fall for that..the best is just ignore and delete even the word Maya from our mind.

There is no need even to acquire knowledge from anywhere.

Everything is right with us...there is nothing to acquire.

We need to learn to be "innocent" like a child and yet be beyond any acquired knowledge.

Ever wondered why the Sanat Kumars are depicted as children?

Even Jesus said "unless you become like little children..you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven"


Its becos we have to just be..be like how we were born.That is the pure mind that did not acquire anything becos it is verily everything.

Have you realized that humans are the only species who cant accept themselves as how they are?

Its becos the mind has been programmed to become.

A lion is a lion..he does not want to become an elephant.

A tree is a tree..it does not want to become a fish.

Likewise we should just be..live naturally..there is no need to get entangled in Maya and think we have to get rid of it.
 
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OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

It is not a conscious effort to get rid of maya but a natural flow of events that will make that happen. A child cannot be a child always. It physically grows into an adult. Similarly we have to mature in a spiritual way. This quest for knowledge is inbuilt in humans. That is the reason we are at the top of the hierarchy among beings. The acquisition of knowledge will ultimately change all our false perceptions. We just cannot harbor false beliefs and try to be in that state. Nature does not allow that.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Interesting exchange.

One is harping on being as preferred to becoming.

We are not kAlAtheetha entities. That is entities which have transcended Time dimension. And kAlam with its unique unidirectional and .linear behavior does not give scope for anything to stand still and be in its "being" state for ever. We keep moving from the being state to the "becoming" state continuously. We have crossed many becoming stages and still continuing the journey which is not in our control. So to ask for giving up becoming and stay in "being" is asking for the impossible. It is said to grow is transient and to be is eternal. As we grow it is a chain of so many "to be"s that we cross and the present "to be" is only a momentary stop on a long journey on which we have no control.

The other, in order to solve this riddle, brings in his pet "maya" theory. He understands that only change is permanent and the so called "to be" is just a momentary flash in the physical world. He stresses the "realization of the eternalo nature" as the summum bonum of this journey through several "to be" stages.

All physical changes and acquisitions and knowledge of these mental processes are burdens accumulated. The best solution is rid oneself of all this-- the acquisitions, the knowledge of the process of acquisitions, the attachment to these acquisitions, the longing for the non existent "realized state" in this janma--all this is complete surrender. A surrender in which knowingly everything is given up. That is the golden path of spirituality.

More about this later if others join in.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

It is not a conscious effort to get rid of maya but a natural flow of events that will make that happen. A child cannot be a child always. It physically grows into an adult. Similarly we have to mature in a spiritual way. This quest for knowledge is inbuilt in humans. That is the reason we are at the top of the hierarchy among beings. The acquisition of knowledge will ultimately change all our false perceptions. We just cannot harbor false beliefs and try to be in that state. Nature does not allow that.

Dear sravna,

While both of us may be really thinking on identical lines, I think there are differences in the ways of expression.

I feel the orthodox hindu way of "getting rid of māyā" in order to understand/realize the absolute Truth, etc., is a highly convoluted one. Perhaps it suited our society in the olden days. But you will find that after some point of time we could not produce any notable new ideas in the philosophical realm.

What I would suggest for today's young generation, which is very much at home with complex gadgets, computer languages, quantum physics and highly abstract space physics, etc., is to let māyā be māyā and take its own course, but to ponder more and more on the absolute correctness of the observed world/universe. I think it is such lines of thinking which has driven the scientists at Fermilab to test the Holometer theory.

Even for a man-in-the street like myself, deep contemplation over long periods of time has brought forth certain new kinds of knowledge. So, I think our very intelligent youngsters will be able to grasp the nuances very easily, without such deep contemplation, etc., simply because of their general scientific knowledge.

 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

I agree with you. If we ponder more and more on the observed universe we will begin to see the problems in our current theories and so by trying to correct them we will gain a deeper and more and more correct understanding of the universe. Certainly yes. I would say that is one route to truth- the external way. I am not sure if it is supported in Hinduism but I see no problem in that if people can realize truth about reality from observation and correct interpretation of such observations.
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
I will post here all of my articles that I plan to put up on my website and I request the members to share their views.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
A surrender in which knowingly everything is given up. That is the golden path of spirituality.

I used to think on the same lines too about total surrender.

Then I felt that even surrender is actually still holding on to something unknown.

Surrender is when we are at total mercy of another entity..that means we are not self dependent...in other words still in bondage.

There is no golden path of spirituality..becos some might prefer platinum.

In fact there is no path at all to start with.

The word "path" confuses everyone and everyone packs their spiritual bags for a journey into the unknown..only to finally come back to where they were standing to begin with.

That very same point that they stood all their lives...there is no path at all.
 

sangom

Well-known member
I used to think on the same lines too about total surrender.

Then I felt that even surrender is actually still holding on to something unknown.

Surrender is when we are at total mercy of another entity..that means we are not self dependent...in other words still in bondage.

There is no golden path of spirituality..becos some might prefer platinum.

In fact there is no path at all to start with.

The word "path" confuses everyone and everyone packs their spiritual bags for a journey into the unknown..only to finally come back to where they were standing to begin with.

That very same point that they stood all their lives...there is no path at all.

According to me, there is no "spiritual path", but, so long as a person is unable to completely get rid of all the brain-washing accumulated during life through parents, religion, society and even by one's own erroneous judgments about god, religion, truth and all such related things, one will continue to go round and round around the very same things, very much like the bullock tied to the (old-world) oil-presser or சக்கு (cakku). This is very similar to the example of a geo-stationary satellite; what is required is to "break-free" of the gravitational pull of all the conventional wisdoms inculacted in us by parents, religion, society and even by one's own erroneous judgments about god. Then only we will become "Space Explorers" in the true sense.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
According to me, there is no "spiritual path", but, so long as a person is unable to completely get rid of all the brain-washing accumulated during life through parents, religion, society and even by one's own erroneous judgments about god, religion, truth and all such related things, one will continue to go round and round around the very same things,


Dear Sangom ji,

I agree..that is why I said in my earlier post that one has to just Be and no need to Become.

To Become is what you had rightly written that is
brain-washing accumulated during life through parents, religion, society and even by one's own erroneous judgments about god, religion, truth and all such related things,

Sometimes I feel a state of Mindlessness is just Being.

Its kind of sad actually that one spent one's life accumulating Becomingness only to realize that it was not needed at all.

So indeed we are all Mules..carried a load that wasnt ours to start with.
 
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