• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

God does exist

Status
Not open for further replies.

sangom

Well-known member
show me just ONE person who has seen the real GOD, the so-called CREATOR. We always see "god" in beggars lepers etc, but we never see GOD. I'm beginning to think God was the product of a fertile hallucinating mind, high on psychotropic substances. Why should god eat plantains, why not a bottle of Cognac?

I am undergoing a very very difficult period, and no god or whatever's helped me. I must admit, I do read Sai Satcharita etc, but that 'saint' knew telekinesis, in my opinion.

Dear Shri Ashwin,

The concept of a superior almighty god who is at once a dispenser of divine, impartial justice as also the very personification of kindness to the bhaktas or devotees of that god almighty, was the imagination of normal human minds who had, probably by that time, come to see and experience powerful men taking over as kings, emperors and monarchs. The human imagination seems to have simply magnified some of the powers and characteristics of these kings/emperors and made those into aspects of god. I do not think minds under hallucination are/were necessary to achieve this.

But I agree that hallucinating (?) minds have possibly passed off as persons with godly powers and even as people who had direct experience of god. The best instance that comes to my mind is Narendra Dutta (a.k.a Vivekananda) climing that he had direct vision of god by a simple touch by Ramakrishna.

Though cognac may be costly, there is a famous temple in Kerala at Parassinikkadavu and the offerings here are fish, meat and toddy (Muthappan Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Hence there is nothing against cognac in hinduism I will say, but I do not know whether cognac alone without something else to neutalize its effects on god, may be advisable ;)

God as I said earlier, is the power or force or energy which manifests as "Life", nothing more. It has only that marvellous power to manifest as life, nothing more. Our problems, good times and bad times, even worst times, are all results of our own past karmas and only if we had performed some karma/s to mitigate the evil effects of our bad karmas we will get some timely external help or relief from the sufferings.

In one of your earlier posts you had written that your father's demise, someone who was alive or was even a mere physical body, a few minutes ago turns into a pot of ashes in five minutes, and that has changed your life view completely. That is the real, real, truth because once god which is making you alive, leaves this body, then this body alone becomes a very bad nuisance for humans and they will better hurry to dispose it off by burning or intering, as soon as possible so that the rotting, foul-smelling body does not spread diseases to others who want to live!

This physical body is just like a cloak which is activated into life and living state by god, but subject to the Karmas which cause such a birth in the first instance. Once this Karma covering says "my job in this cloak is finished!", even the life-giving god has no power to stay on and has to depart. The karmas cause a new birth just as we throw away an old car and buy a new one which, again, will run for only a few years.

I understand that you are having tough times. The best course is to analyze the situation, its causes and what steps you can take to nullify the problems. Astrology is sometimes of use in this. One Shri Rishikesan has been saying that his wife gives guaranteed predictions and pariharams. May be you would like to try that. Reading Sai Satcharitra or anything else for that matter will be of any help until you have experienced the results of the past karmas. Kindly do not lose courage, there will be good times for you as you grow old.
 

ashwin_ash

New member
Thanks for all your support. They say 'God' tests us, and those who 'pass' the test are rewarded. Which 'god'? The Christian/ Jewish god demands wine, the islamic god demands a goat, the hindu gods demand everything. So which god do we turn to, in times of difficulty? People with a comfortable bank balance can afford to engage in godly pursuits to mask their anguish, what about those who have no money? Do they die on the streets?
 

suraju06

Well-known member
Thanks for all your support. They say 'God' tests us, and those who 'pass' the test are rewarded. Which 'god'? The Christian/ Jewish god demands wine, the islamic god demands a goat, the hindu gods demand everything. So which god do we turn to, in times of difficulty? People with a comfortable bank balance can afford to engage in godly pursuits to mask their anguish, what about those who have no money? Do they die on the streets?

Dear Ashwin,

Everything passes. Period.

Have faith and keep it.

Cheers.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Thanks for all your support. They say 'God' tests us, and those who 'pass' the test are rewarded. Which 'god'? The Christian/ Jewish god demands wine, the islamic god demands a goat, the hindu gods demand everything. So which god do we turn to, in times of difficulty? People with a comfortable bank balance can afford to engage in godly pursuits to mask their anguish, what about those who have no money? Do they die on the streets?

I did not say anything about god testing you/us and god rewarding later, etc. What I said or tried to say, was that all the present sufferings are the reactions or results of the past karmas with which you have been born as ashwin_ash and no power, not even the mightiest of all the Chrisian, Jewish, Islamic or Hindu gods can do anything to interfere in this karma playing out its course; but if there is any favourable karmas too in the balances you have come carrying, may be some timely help will come to you. Till then you can remain stoically, bearing all the sufferings or show your frustration in any whichever way you want. The better way is to keep a stoic attitude. You will always find people who are less lucky than yourself in this world; that is one of the enigmas of this world.

In case you give your DOB, TOB & POB, I can prepare your birth horoscope and may be I will be able to tell you how long your sufferings will continue.
 

ashwin_ash

New member
My d.o.b Nov 9, 1973..time of birth- 1920 (7:20 PM), Place of birth- Mumbai, India

Thanks a ton for offering to help... [email protected]

I did not say anything about god testing you/us and god rewarding later, etc. What I said or tried to say, was that all the present sufferings are the reactions or results of the past karmas with which you have been born as ashwin_ash and no power, not even the mightiest of all the Chrisian, Jewish, Islamic or Hindu gods can do anything to interfere in this karma playing out its course; but if there is any favourable karmas too in the balances you have come carrying, may be some timely help will come to you. Till then you can remain stoically, bearing all the sufferings or show your frustration in any whichever way you want. The better way is to keep a stoic attitude. You will always find people who are less lucky than yourself in this world; that is one of the enigmas of this world.

In case you give your DOB, TOB & POB, I can prepare your birth horoscope and may be I will be able to tell you how long your sufferings will continue.
 

biswa

New member
One interesting viewpoint I heard recently was what if God exists, but is not omnipotent? God is like a child who has collected a lot of ants in a bottle. The ants fight it out amongst themselves, struggling for existence. To them, the child seems all powerful and can mete out life or death. But outside the ant universe, the child has his own challenges.

What if God can't really provide all the answers? Just a being more powerful than we are.
 

sangom

Well-known member
One interesting viewpoint I heard recently was what if God exists, but is not omnipotent? God is like a child who has collected a lot of ants in a bottle. The ants fight it out amongst themselves, struggling for existence. To them, the child seems all powerful and can mete out life or death. But outside the ant universe, the child has his own challenges.

What if God can't really provide all the answers? Just a being more powerful than we are.

Dear Shri Biswaji,

I knew closely one astrologer (of course, a tabra) who had amzing skills of prediction, may be due to his innate nature or the power of his devotion to goddess Ambika (which was what everyone including myself, believed at that time). This poor man who never used to insist on any "dakshiNA" and so whom people used to underpay as much as possible, had no issues. One day my inquisitiveness got the better of myself and I asked him why he who prescribed parihArams to many for begetting issues/sons etc., was not doing anything for a son for himself.

He smiled feebly because his asthmA was very acute that day and said that this entire world turns on the principle of karma but people have failed to understand it and, because our religion and scriptures say many different things, their beliefs have gone very much astray but the truth prevails, unknown to them.

I then asked him what astrology says and what is the relevance of parihArams then? He said astrology helps analyze the kArmic balance sheet (he used a round-about description in spoken Tamil, for this) and parihArams are relevant in many cases if one can pinpoint the kArmic weaknesses in the horoscope and what will be an effective parihAram; our astrology texts of repute omit the kArmic part but link parihArams to the apparent planetary malformations, bad placements/aspects, etc., just as our old ayurvedic system used to diagnose the disease based on the three dOshas while allopathy studies the apparent symptoms like temperature, motion, pain, swelling etc.

My knowledge of astrology is meagre and so I do not dare to suggest parihArams usually, but the old man's words had a great impact on me. This plus my accumulated experiences and thoughts get reflected in my personal philosophical belief, I will say.

As to a childish (childlike?) god with a bottle full of ants etc., it is not necessary to imagine or postulate any kind of outside god once we are fully convinced that god is the power which manifests as life-giving power or energy and that individual physical bodies act according to the kArmic balaance sheet which each of us has come with into this world. But religions will not allow mankind to so believe.
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi sangom ji,
nice write up....thanks....generally karmic theory more philosophical.....but we feel....sometimes we want immediate relief....

so pariharam ...,may be for just mental satisfaction....like ayurveda based on vaatha/pitha/kapam....these three doshas....

it takes long time to cure the disease ....but no side reactions....but allopathic medicines give immediate relief ...with side

affect too..so all pariharams for mental satisfaction/psychological feelings....
 

sangom

Well-known member
hi sangom ji,
nice write up....thanks....generally karmic theory more philosophical.....but we feel....sometimes we want immediate relief....

so pariharam ...,may be for just mental satisfaction....like ayurveda based on vaatha/pitha/kapam....these three doshas....

it takes long time to cure the disease ....but no side reactions....but allopathic medicines give immediate relief ...with side

affect too..so all pariharams for mental satisfaction/psychological feelings....

Shri tbs,

Even when an astrologer advises some parihaaram/s.....he is not sure of results.... only expense...physical strain...but some mental satisfaction...temporary, of course is obtained.... if the parihaaram proves useless and the bad thing happens to pass ... people blame their karma ....or say "god has willed otherwise", etc.,.........and find mental peace ultimately.......is it not?..........so, why not trust in the karma theory from the first itself?
 

tbs

Well-known member
Shri tbs,

Even when an astrologer advises some parihaaram/s.....he is not sure of results.... only expense...physical strain...but some mental satisfaction...temporary, of course is obtained.... if the parihaaram proves useless and the bad thing happens to pass ... people blame their karma ....or say "god has willed otherwise", etc.,.........and find mental peace ultimately.......is it not?..........so, why not trust in the karma theory from the first itself?
hi
if ppl trust in karmic theory first itself...then what abt astrologers/some others....they want survive tooo in this world....its not easy

to digest karmic theory.....
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
hi
its not easy to digest karmic theory.....

Dear TBS garu,

The truth is always difficult to digest..so Truth is made into "Pariharam"capsules and swallowed!

For that matter even the practice of Shraddha itself is questionable.

When a person has his own Karma to work out even after death..does Shraddha done by his descendants really help?

If Shraddha works and helps lessen Karmic burden I don't see any reason why Sanjay Dutt should not be pardoned?

Pardoning is like a Pariharam/Shraddha where deeds previously done can be erased!LOL
 
Last edited:
S

SANDHYAV

Guest
Dear Shri Ashwin,

The concept of a superior almighty god who is at once a dispenser of divine, impartial justice as also the very personification of kindness to the bhaktas or devotees of that god almighty, was the imagination of normal human minds who had, probably by that time, come to see and experience powerful men taking over as kings, emperors and monarchs. The human imagination seems to have simply magnified some of the powers and characteristics of these kings/emperors and made those into aspects of god. I do not think minds under hallucination are/were necessary to achieve this.

But I agree that hallucinating (?) minds have possibly passed off as persons with godly powers and even as people who had direct experience of god. The best instance that comes to my mind is Narendra Dutta (a.k.a Vivekananda) climing that he had direct vision of god by a simple touch by Ramakrishna.

Though cognac may be costly, there is a famous temple in Kerala at Parassinikkadavu and the offerings here are fish, meat and toddy (Muthappan Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Hence there is nothing against cognac in hinduism I will say, but I do not know whether cognac alone without something else to neutalize its effects on god, may be advisable ;)

God as I said earlier, is the power or force or energy which manifests as "Life", nothing more. It has only that marvellous power to manifest as life, nothing more. Our problems, good times and bad times, even worst times, are all results of our own past karmas and only if we had performed some karma/s to mitigate the evil effects of our bad karmas we will get some timely external help or relief from the sufferings.

In one of your earlier posts you had written that your father's demise, someone who was alive or was even a mere physical body, a few minutes ago turns into a pot of ashes in five minutes, and that has changed your life view completely. That is the real, real, truth because once god which is making you alive, leaves this body, then this body alone becomes a very bad nuisance for humans and they will better hurry to dispose it off by burning or intering, as soon as possible so that the rotting, foul-smelling body does not spread diseases to others who want to live!

This physical body is just like a cloak which is activated into life and living state by god, but subject to the Karmas which cause such a birth in the first instance. Once this Karma covering says "my job in this cloak is finished!", even the life-giving god has no power to stay on and has to depart. The karmas cause a new birth just as we throw away an old car and buy a new one which, again, will run for only a few years.

I understand that you are having tough times. The best course is to analyze the situation, its causes and what steps you can take to nullify the problems. Astrology is sometimes of use in this. One Shri Rishikesan has been saying that his wife gives guaranteed predictions and pariharams. May be you would like to try that. Reading Sai Satcharitra or anything else for that matter will be of any help until you have experienced the results of the past karmas. Kindly do not lose courage, there will be good times for you as you grow old.

GOD is a mechanism/tool. HE definitely exhists. Means of achieving that transen-dental (the iphon shouldnt have been there in the word transendental) PLATFORM depends on each GROUP/individual's memory and the religious culture in which he prevails.

GLOBALLY there will always be a new year, deepavali, xmas and a ramadhan. These festives remind us of GOD's exhistance in the present day world.

PERSONALLY i like ISKCON, GOOD FRIDAY and EASTER, Carnatic music with a bit of telugu/tamil/hindi words, and the fasting month of RAMADAN.

If i WRITE about VIVEKANANDA, KRISHNAMURTHY, KARMIC THEORY, COSMIC THEORY, EVOLUTION PRINCIPLES,SPIRITUALITY AS A TYPE OF EMOTION UNDER, PHYSIOLOGY OF HALLUCINATION in this thread then i will be PERCEIVED as a fool. because after all what a GROUP perceives is a 15 MINUTE SPIKE in my THOUGHT PROCESS and not my EMOTION OR BEHAVIOUR in the REAL WORLD beyond my keyboard.

In the real world, i should be trying to solve problems at work, family, society (which will include this TAMILBRAHMIN.COM, temple, FACEBOOK) and sports.
 
V

V.Balasubramani

Guest
Sir, For preparing a hot mouth watering sambar, (members excuse I am not a Nala) you first heat some oil, fry mustard, fenugreek seeds, and pour tamarind soaked water, add salt, chilli power/sambar powder required, add, assafoetida, vegetable and allow it to boil. Finaly add the boiled dal and curry leaves. Now an hot spicy sambar is ready to serve. It is a loveable dish. Now though the taste of the sambar is very delicious does the vessel that used to prepare the sambar knows the taste of it! No! Likewise it is reported though we all have God within us, most of us are searching him outside. Does God is accessible? Does God can be realised? What are the ways? What are Jnana Margam, Karmma Margam? Bakthi Margam? Dhasamargam, Sahamargam and Sanmargam? etc. etc There are lot of ways preached in the puranas. Even knowing the meaning of all the above margas, can these are practically possible for a person of observe the margas nowadays. We studied about great people like Kalidhasa, Arunagirinathar, Thulasidasar, Meera, Theagabrahmam, etc etc. Matha, Pitha, Guru Deivam.


Vazhaga valamudan
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear TBS garu,

The truth is always difficult to digest..so Truth is made into "Pariharam"capsules and swallowed!

For that matter even the practice of Shraddha itself is questionable.

When a person has his own Karma to work out even after death..does Shraddha done by his descendants really help?

If Shraddha works and helps lessen Karmic burden I don't see any reason why Sanjay Dutt should not be pardoned?

Pardoning is like a Pariharam/Shraddha where deeds previously done can be erased!LOL

Smt. Renuka,

AFAIK the śrāddha is not a vedic injunction; it gets its support from the puranas and the Dharmasastras, mainly. It is very difficult to justify the idea of śrāddha (offering three balls of rice in the homa fire to the three paternal ancestors and feeding two brahmins will satisfy the three dead ancestors, in whichever world they may be) and the concept of rebirth or punarjanma which found its way into hindu religious thoughts in a subsequent period. Nobody dared to question this contradiction; although the Matsyapurana takes up this question, it tries to justify the practice of śrāddha in a round about way. In Viswarupa's commentary on Yajnavalkyasmriti (as per Dr. P.V. Kane's, the history of Dharmasastras) also takes up this question and gives justifying answers of several kinds.

But I fail to see how pardoning Sunjuy Dutt will be a parihAram - for whose karmas and how? Also, Sunil Dutt was a mohyal and not a brahmin; mohyals excommunicate anyone from their ethnic group taking up priestly activity. (see Mohyal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Sunjuy was born to a muslim mother and so your claim to his brahmin status is not at all valid, imo.
 

Govinda

New member
GLOBALLY there will always be a new year, deepavali, xmas and a ramadhan. These festives remind us of GOD's exhistance in the present day world.

PERSONALLY i like ISKCON, GOOD FRIDAY and EASTER, Carnatic music with a bit of telugu/tamil/hindi words, and the fasting month of RAMADAN.

In the real world, i should be trying to solve problems at work, family, society (which will include this TAMILBRAHMIN.COM, temple, FACEBOOK) and sports.

To Sandhyav,

You are seemingly confused and naive. You should start approaching a right step to understanding things!
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Smt. Renuka,

AFAIK the śrāddha is not a vedic injunction; it gets its support from the puranas and the Dharmasastras, mainly. It is very difficult to justify the idea of śrāddha (offering three balls of rice in the homa fire to the three paternal ancestors and feeding two brahmins will satisfy the three dead ancestors, in whichever world they may be) and the concept of rebirth or punarjanma which found its way into hindu religious thoughts in a subsequent period. Nobody dared to question this contradiction; although the Matsyapurana takes up this question, it tries to justify the practice of śrāddha in a round about way. In Viswarupa's commentary on Yajnavalkyasmriti (as per Dr. P.V. Kane's, the history of Dharmasastras) also takes up this question and gives justifying answers of several kinds.

But I fail to see how pardoning Sunjuy Dutt will be a parihAram - for whose karmas and how? Also, Sunil Dutt was a mohyal and not a brahmin; mohyals excommunicate anyone from their ethnic group taking up priestly activity. (see Mohyal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Sunjuy was born to a muslim mother and so your claim to his brahmin status is not at all valid, imo.


Dear Sangom ji,

What I meant is if Shardda or Pariharam can wipe out or lessen Karmic burden that Sanjay Dutt should be able to be pardoned by "pariharams" in the name of the higher authorities which have the power to pardon him for his offence.

What I was trying to say is..if we can get away with Karma by offering some oblations..then why do we even need the jurisdiction/court etc?

When being in earth itself most of the times we can not escape the law..I find it really hard to believe that Karmic burden can be lightened by Shardda and Pariharams.

I feel Shardda and Pariharams to a certain extent contradict the law of Karma.

I remember one priest told me before that Shraddha is like asking Yama Dharmaraj to not to "torture" our ancestors as much.

Isn't that like a form of corruption practiced??

I somehow feel it is all man made just to lessen the economic burden of society.

I feel if anyone of us want to be Bad we should have the guts to be face the consequences of our action and be ready to land in hell after death if hell actually exists!LOL
 

Govinda

New member
Shri tbs,

Even when an astrologer advises some parihaaram/s.....he is not sure of results.... only expense...physical strain...but some mental satisfaction...temporary, of course is obtained.... if the parihaaram proves useless and the bad thing happens to pass ... people blame their karma ....or say "god has willed otherwise", etc.,.........and find mental peace ultimately.......is it not?..........so, why not trust in the karma theory from the first itself?

Sangom Ji,

Post#70

You are very smart, you can even write in the same style as the reader ;)

I sometimes take your claims, as challenges to our understanding on the basics of Vedic Philosophy.

The major aphorisms of Vedas/Upanishads are 'Ekam eva advitiyam', 'Sat alone existed in the beginning', 'Tat Tvam Asi' etc. These all make that
ONE Brahman as the single source of all creation, existence and dissolution.

If He is the Creator like Potter, Where did He seek the clay, tools water/elements, space etc. to form the variously formed Pots? HE alone Existed in the beginning, and hence unlike the Potter, His body (infinitesimal part ofit) itself became the space to behold this vast creation/Universe, He (with mind and power) willed to be the instrument to shape those elements. As all the subtle matter and the JivAs are minute fragments of His body, He efficiently shaped them according to their Karma sacrificing His own parts to shape them. [As in Purusha Suktam].

If Karma alone was the set law, and The Creator has no powers to redefine or relax them even in exceptional cases either at His own will or for the great causes of Emancipation/Liberation, then either He is ignorant or He is inadept about His own intelligent designs/constraints. Or the System (Karma or Quantum Laws) is more Powerful than Him.

Then, the Srutis' claim of that Supreme ONE Brahman with 6 speical Qualities of BhagavAn will become falsified. Plus, Karma will take a infinite regress, and noone will be able to overcome and the great mahAtmAs (not gandhi, but realized sages, saints, achryas, simple, honest people) we wouldn't have had in the history), nor see any such person existing today!

So, The right understanding should be that ' The Purusha, that Shaped this Universe/Creation after very many such cycles, is single-handedly capable of anything and everything. Karma is just a benchmark, a plumbline, like the laws of gravity and physical laws, to have a just, uniform, very intelligently designed legal system, inbuilt in every being and within every matter in the nature. But, the cries of GajendrA, draupadi, prahlAda, dhruvA were all heard and answered, He roared as Varaha to answer the prayers of His own powerful counterpart BhuDevi. He is as generous, merciful, as He is single handedly powerful! He cannot be excelled even in the best of auspicious qualities.'

So, as Andal promises in Her TiruppAvai, 'தாமோதரனை, தூயோம்ஆய் வந்துநாம் தூமலர் தூவித்தொழுது
வாயினால் பாடி மனத்தினால் சிந்திக்கப் போய பிழையும் புகுதருவான் நின்றனவும் தீயினில் தூசுஆகும் செப்பேலோ ரெம்பாவாய்.'

If you chant His name and meditate Him, all your past sins will be burnt. Becoming His true devotee, your mind will be
made clear, and may not encounter any future sins.

To Ashwin,

Sri Vishu Sahasranama, has clear descriptions in tune with the Upanishadic understanding of Brahman. Chanting the same stotram is like glorifying
the Supreme Lord Vishnu with the clear picture on His own nature and His reality and grabbing His feet alone can be the only
cause of deliverance from our, otherwise unconquerable Sins.

edit: the logical error on 'ekam eva na-dvitiyam'
 
Last edited:

sangom

Well-known member
Sangom Ji,

Post#70

You are very smart, you can even write in the same style as the reader ;)

I sometimes take your claims, as challenges to our understanding on the basics of Vedic Philosophy.

The major aphorisms of Vedas/Upanishads are 'Ekam eva na-advitiyam', 'Sat alone existed in the beginning', 'Tat Tvam Asi' etc. These all make that
ONE Brahman as the single source of all creation, existence and dissolution.

Dear Shri Govindaji,

The vedic aphorism is "Ekam Eva adviteeyam" JFYI please. These vedic sayings seem to me to be based on human thoughts and understanding of those days when Man felt probably that for anything and everything there must be someone who "makes" that thing, just like the common example of clay pot and the potter, which we find very often in our scriptural discussions about philosophic ideas. Possibly the ancient Man did not bother much about the "egg or the chicken" conundrum, or, may be he (the ancient Man) decided in favour of either the egg or the chicken and this, he once again believed, was 'created' by his all-creator god.

The one Brahman of the "Ekam Eva Adviteeyam" variety of the Advaita type is perceived to be "nirguNa" (devoid of any and all characteristics) and so it is not possible for this Advaitic Brahman to create or do anything else except simply exist which is denoted by the the aphorism "Ekam Sat" or, one (alone) exists.

If He is the Creator like Potter, Where did He seek the clay, tools water/elements, space etc. to form the variously formed Pots? HE alone Existed in the beginning, and hence unlike the Potter, His body (infinitesimal part ofit) itself became the space to behold this vast creation/Universe, He (with mind and power) willed to be the instrument to shape those elements. As all the subtle matter and the JivAs are minute fragments of His body, He efficiently shaped them according to their Karma sacrificing His own parts to shape them. [As in Purusha Suktam].

I feel Purusha Suktam (PS) does not support the Potter-creator imagery of God because it (PS) says clearly that the sacrificial performance was done not by the "Potter-creator God" which, in this case, is the Purusha with thousand heads, thousand eyes and thousand feet, etc., but by the dEvas, sAdhyas and Rishis (yat puruShENa haviShA dEvA yajnam atanvata:, dEvA yad yajnam tanvAnA abadhnan puruSham paSum:,tEna dEvA ayajanta sAdhyA ruShayaSca yE). Here the purusha comes up as a sacrificial animal only.

If Karma alone was the set law, and The Creator has no powers to redefine or relax them even in exceptional cases either at His own will or for the great causes of Emancipation/Liberation, then either He is ignorant or He is inadept about His own intelligent designs/constraints. Or the System (Karma or Quantum Laws) is more Powerful than Him.

Then, the Srutis' claim of that Supreme ONE Brahman with 6 speical Qualities of BhagavAn will become falsified. Plus, Karma will take a infinite regress, and noone will be able to overcome and the great mahAtmAs (not gandhi, but realized sages, saints, achryas, simple, honest people) we wouldn't have had in the history), nor see any such person existing today!

So, The right understanding should be that ' The Purusha, that Shaped this Universe/Creation after very many such cycles, is single-handedly capable of anything and everything. Karma is just a benchmark, a plumbline, like the laws of gravity and physical laws, to have a just, uniform, very intelligently designed legal system, inbuilt in every being and within every matter in the nature. But, the cries of GajendrA, draupadi, prahlAda, dhruvA were all heard and answered, He roared as Varaha to answer the prayers of His own powerful counterpart BhuDevi. He is as generous, merciful, as He is single handedly powerful! He cannot be excelled even in the best of auspicious qualities.'

So, as Andal promises in Her TiruppAvai, 'தாமோதரனை, தூயோம்ஆய் வந்துநாம் தூமலர் தூவித்தொழுது
வாயினால் பாடி மனத்தினால் சிந்திக்கப் போய பிழையும் புகுதருவான் நின்றனவும் தீயினில் தூசுஆகும் செப்பேலோ ரெம்பாவாய்.'

If you chant His name and meditate Him, all your past sins will be burnt. Becoming His true devotee, your mind will be
made clear, and may not encounter any future sins.

The problem, Shri Govindaji, appears to me to be that we hindus have learnt many things in order to secure our livelihoods but, when it comes to religion, our thinking capacity has been ossified for thousands of years. We have been brainwashed into a firm belief in a creator god who is most often a male and only sometimes a female, and that creator god has all the ultimate powers to do anything, etc. We have not been able to think or question why, if such a creator god (CG) unnecessarily wastes his/her time to make so many people suffer in ever so many ways, all merely to end up finally as dust (Dust thou art and to dust thou returneth) or as ashes; is not such a CG at least a sadist? Anyway we don't see any one individual human being who has seen this CG nor any one person who can confidently say with you "My mind has become 100% pure and all my past sins have been burnt and I will not encounter any more sin in future". Hence, to my mind all these are cock-and-bull stories which gullibility has made extremely sacrosanct.

Today we know that there are several kinds of religious beliefs among humanity and all humans die; whether these people take rebirth, is not yet conclusively proved. Hence all that we have got clearly is that humans are born, all people lead lives which are a mixture of sufferings and happiness in varying proportions and no two humans have identical lives, not even identical twins. At the end of their lives all people die at varying ages (some in the womb itself and some others after more than a hundred years in this world) and that is the big END.

In this scenario a CG or any kind of god comes in only as a mascot of one religion or another and the ultimate benefit from this goes to those who run the religion as an enterprise. The dying man dies sometimes a very painful death even if he was a very pious and religious person chanting the name of god almost all the time and an illiterate farmer or fish vendor who has hardly any time for god, temple or the church, dies a calm and sudden death. But society immediately covers up the unpleasant fact of the very religious man dying a slow and painful death because religion and the religious dogmas have to be safeguarded. Having seen such occurrences and after thinking deeply about all such aspects only, I have come to the conclusion and belief that there is no CG or god other than the "thing" which manifests as life in our bodies, that all this universe is controlled by the law of karma (action & reaction) and that there is no power, CG or G which can alter the working of this law of Karma.

I can well understand your position; you have been fed on religion to such an extent that you are now incapable of thinking outside of those indoctrinations. I do not want you or anyone else to alter your views because it may even cause psychiatric problems for such persons. And, at the end of the show (i.e., this drama called life) all of us, brahmins, brahmin-bashers, christians, Muslims, all including the aborigines of New Guinea, will all disappear from the face of this earth and probably none will come back to tell what happens after death. All that we do including the imagining of a Vishnu, grabbing his imaginary feet or chanting his name incessantly, all this will not be of any help when the final moment comes and beckons to each one of us to vacate ourselves for ever from here, imho.

Of course, each one of us is free to don any costume and perform any comic which suits our taste while we are here, at the mercy of our past Karmas.
 
Last edited:

sarang

Well-known member
You must review your understanding of sanatanadharma - we derive our understanding of the basic philosophy, dharma, duties, tradition, belief and practices from all the sources - vedas, upanishads, vedangas, gita, itihasas, puranas, smritis and the words of acharyas/elders. Perhaps attending or listening to a few upanyasams will be of benefit.

There is no rule saying that what is not in vedas must not be done. No law promulgated must be anti vedic, that is all. This simple vidi, will help in getting rid of all your blocks. This argument - it is not in vedas is a bit sterile; one doesn't have to trace or link every activity, karma, or inactivity to vedas.

Dharnasastra rules can be amended by its followers, if they want, to suit desam and kalam.

This is not IMHO or AFAIK, but what I have learnt. So, if one family has been doing shraddam for ages with faith, devotion and respect following rules setup by one's great great ancestor, and the current incumbent does not want to do that, he is free to do so. Perhaps, in an earlier age, one's relatives would have sidelined him or even excommunicated him. Whether the pitrus are offended or angry is irrelevant to the individual who, anyway, has no faith.

There are many occasions when we act to pleas the other party. Well dressed in suits and kanchi pattu while attending weddings to show respect to the couple, black suit for the funerals (?), and so on.

There may be contradictions in sanatana dharma scriptures. Every sampradaya selects what is close to its heart and practice.


Smt. Renuka,

AFAIK the śrāddha is not a vedic injunction; it gets its support from the puranas and the Dharmasastras, mainly. It is very difficult to justify the idea of śrāddha (offering three balls of rice in the homa fire to the three paternal ancestors and feeding two brahmins will satisfy the three dead ancestors, in whichever world they may be) and the concept of rebirth or punarjanma which found its way into hindu religious thoughts in a subsequent period. Nobody dared to question this contradiction; although the Matsyapurana takes up this question, it tries to justify the practice of śrāddha in a round about way. In Viswarupa's commentary on Yajnavalkyasmriti (as per Dr. P.V. Kane's, the history of Dharmasastras) also takes up this question and gives justifying answers of several kinds.

But I fail to see how pardoning Sunjuy Dutt will be a parihAram - for whose karmas and how? Also, Sunil Dutt was a mohyal and not a brahmin; mohyals excommunicate anyone from their ethnic group taking up priestly activity. (see Mohyal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Sunjuy was born to a muslim mother and so your claim to his brahmin status is not at all valid, imo.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
Thank you for visiting TamilBrahmins.com

You seem to have an Ad Blocker on.

We depend on advertising to keep our content free for you. Please consider whitelisting us in your ad blocker so that we can continue to provide the content you have come here to enjoy.

Alternatively, consider upgrading your account to enjoynumerous other benefits. To upgrade your account, please visit the account upgrades page

You can also donate financially if you can. Please Click Here on how you can do that.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks