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Go Not to the temple - a poem by Tagore

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auh

New member
There are English translations of a supposed poems by Tagore originally written in Bengali.
The name of the author is irrelevant to understanding if there is a meaning to the verses, given it is a short piece.

The original intent etc are irrelevant details when what matters is the message of pieces of writing or poem presented.
So how do you know what the message of the piece of writing of a verse is, given that it is open to interpretation?

The prior 'conclusion' - நாதன் is equal to the சுவை of existence is logically flawed. I leave it at that with this comment below.
If the big picture is understood, it is easy to recognize that a conclusion is flawed.
Are we debating about whether the poem is logical or not? your above comment has silliness written all over it when you have inserted it out of context here.

Who knows what the original author of the verse intended to convey. We are all, at best, trying to voice our views through a maze of words.

You seem to have a habit of superimposing your "grand big picture" over everything and jump at every opportunity to call everyone around as with a flawed understanding. In all my time here in this forum, I have not seen you giving any clear answer to the queries posted by various members here. Perhaps, for you, it then becomes Q4 time and you vanish !

All the while, member's eyes are bleeding from the word "big picture" / "absolute truth" / "Ishvara" / "Brahman" etc. No shred of logic or evidence to support what you are attempting to say.

Maybe you are becoming Sravna II ?
 
OP
OP
tks

tks

Well-known member
So how do you know what the message of the piece of writing of a verse is, given that it is open to interpretation?

Are we debating about whether the poem is logical or not? your above comment has silliness written all over it when you have inserted it out of context here.

Who knows what the original author of the verse intended to convey. We are all, at best, trying to voice our views through a maze of words.

You seem to have a habit of superimposing your "grand big picture" over everything and jump at every opportunity to call everyone around as with a flawed understanding. In all my time here in this forum, I have not seen you giving any clear answer to the queries posted by various members here. Perhaps, for you, it then becomes Q4 time and you vanish !

All the while, member's eyes are bleeding from the word "big picture" / "absolute truth" / "Ishvara" / "Brahman" etc. No shred of logic or evidence to support what you are attempting to say.

Maybe you are becoming Sravna II ?

There were two points you had - one about the meaning of the poem, the other is about Sivavakiar's poem.
If you draw conclusions I have to point out logical issues (if my Q4 time permits, yes)

If there is shraddha behind a question and I have answers I will answer it. If you come here to pass opinion or belief or strong statements that do not have a basis (and lack the required background or vision) I have a choice to ignore (which I do sometimes ) or give an appropriate response.

All I can say is in certain subjects one cannot discuss without a proper background. I will not be responding to your comments further since they are not rooted in logic or to the content of a post (turning into personal attacks).
 

auh

New member
There were two points you had - one about the meaning of the poem, the other is about Sivavakiar's poem.
If you draw conclusions I have to point out logical issues (if my Q4 time permits, yes)

If there is shraddha behind a question and I have answers I will answer it. If you come here to pass opinion or belief or strong statements that do not have a basis (and lack the required background or vision) I have a choice to ignore (which I do sometimes ) or give an appropriate response.

All I can say is in certain subjects one cannot discuss without a proper background. I will not be responding to your comments further since they are not rooted in logic or to the content of a post (turning into personal attacks).

I have no issues with whatever you want to "conclude" from my post. Maybe you should clarify with the author of my post if you have "got" the message of the post !

I have not come here to get a certificate of shraddha or get a lecture about logic here. Even if I wanted to avail of a sermon, you have not acquired the requisite skills to impart me in shraddha or logic, or to even assess my background.

Just as the sun's rays fall on everyone, you had ample chance to clear everyone's doubts on what you meant. Instead you have decided to slide away. So be it.
 
OP
OP
tks

tks

Well-known member
Post #39
continue with my nithyaradana of God, chanting உளனெனிலுள னவன் உருவமிவ் வுருவுகள், உளன் அலன் எனில் அவன் அருவ மிவ்வருவுகள், உளனென இலனென இவை குணமுடமையில், உள னிரு தகைமை யோடு ஒழிவிலன் பரந்தே (நம்மாழ்வார்)

இவ்வுருவுகள் இவ்வருவுகள் - With form and formless present in all entities


ஒழிவு இலன் பரந்து உளன் - He exist in all Time and everywhere

(My Tamil language skills are not as advanced as many here and I can be corrected)

Now let us look at an expression in the following post

Post #46
All the devotees who go to God and pray are not doing a saudha/bargain.

The very expression of 'Going to God and pray' is not consistent with the message of the prayer above which asserts that the Formless and 'with Form' Godhead pervades all time and space. Therefore one is never away from God hence the idea of 'Go to God' is not exactly right.
With effort one can appreciate that
"அவன் இன்றி ஓர் அணுவும் அசையாது!"


Certainly one may feel the presence of God in a temple only for some but with better understanding of message of நம்மாழ்வார், it is possible for some to sense the presence of the same Godhead elsewhere. The meaning of Bhakthi then takes a different form of expression.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
இவ்வுருவுகள் இவ்வருவுகள் - With form and formless present in all entities


ஒழிவு இலன் பரந்து உளன் - He exist in all Time and everywhere

(My Tamil language skills are not as advanced as many here and I can be corrected)

Now let us look at an expression in the following post



The very expression of 'Going to God and pray' is not consistent with the message of the prayer above which asserts that the Formless and 'with Form' Godhead pervades all time and space. Therefore one is never away from God hence the idea of 'Go to God' is not exactly right.
With effort one can appreciate that
"அவன் இன்றி ஓர் அணுவும் அசையாது!"


Certainly one may feel the presence of God in a temple only for some but with better understanding of message of நம்மாழ்வார், it is possible for some to sense the presence of the same Godhead elsewhere. The meaning of Bhakthi then takes a different form of expression.

This is an attempt to stand the pasuram of Nammazhwar on its head and extract a meaning which is convenient to You. I am unable to agree with your limited interpretation.

Read this fully "உளனெனில் உளன் அவன் உருவம் இவ்வுருவுகள்,...."

The meaning of this line is that "If one understands that all the physical forms that we perceive in this world have Him in them as the antaryami, then He does exist there" There is no scope to exclude the numerous deities in various temple from these "physical forms".

Alwar says he is present in all forms by the words "இவ்வுருவுகள்". Not only in all times and everywhere but also in all forms. So I choose to worship Him by going to a temple. In the temple I have given a form to Him for my "convenience" and I know that he pervades that form and beyond too. For me the immediate least complicated form is just a replica of a human being like me. The anthropomorphous form. But I add a lot of attributes, which I may not have, to that form and pray to it. Not for anything in return (sauda) for the prayer. And then Alwar also says, he is everywhere as the antharyami. Myself being an ordinary human being with limited span of cognitive abilities, I find it very convenient to give Him a form and then worship. I know also that there are "great" people in this world who do not need this anthropomorphous form in a temple for worship. They can just stand looking at a direction (usually west while in India) in the empty space and worship. And there are those who can join an assembly of like minded people and just close their eyes and pray to the empty space. But my way is convenient for me. "ஒரு நாமம் ஒருருவம் ஒன்றும் இல்லார்க்கு ஆயிரம் திருநாமம் பாடி தெள்ளேணம் கொட்டுவது" எனக்கு பிடித்திருக்கிறது,திருப்தி கொடுப்பதாய் இருக்கிறது. And I never said, nor did Alwar ever say that அவன் இன்றி அணுக்களெல்லாம் அசையும். So your condescending last sentence is redundant to the context.

Alwar, according to Acharyas, speaks about an altogether different faith here though I am not touching that subject here.

So, I follow Thyagaraja who had sung "கன கன ருசிரா" and another Alwar (தொண்டரடிப்பொடி) who said "இச்சுவை தவிர யான் போய் இந்திரலோகம் ஆளும் அச்சுவை பெறினும் வேண்டேன் அரங்கமாநகருளானே".

It is a mindset. LOL.
 
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Vaagmi

Well-known member
1. The poem does not ask one to not go to the temple unilaterally or puts down any 'acts of devotion' but makes the point of ignorance of such acts in certain contexts. To understand the context one has to have better understanding of what a temple and Godhead represents. One must be able to see that vision of what a temple and Godhead represents (as taught in our knowledge scriptures) in order to *understand* such poems. Having said this, it is a free world, one can hold whatever view one wants.

The context is limited to the poem quoted. It is just English language and we are using that as the common denominator here. If Tagore had a grand matured vision of the temple or the Godhead, it is not evident in the language here. I have to know Tagore for that by reading about him and not reading scriptures about Him. Yes, it is free world indeed. LOL.

2. Violation refers to violation of universal principles of Dharma.
That is okay. But how do you determine it?
You said "Hypocrisy is possible with any acts of rituals especially when there is a violation of intention of a ritual."
intention is an intensely mental process. So how do you know the mind of a bhakta who engages in a ritual? Only if you know that you can determine any violation of that intention.
Simply put every bhakta who indulges in a ritualistic worship does it with a perfectly justified underlying mental process. In the absence of a jnana drushti/mind reading ability to know the mind of such people, violation of intention is not determinable and you have to just accept that there was no intention to violate any dharma. Period.

3. Belief is not subject to reason. It can be a reasonable belief (that is does not violate whatever laws that are known) or unreasonable beliefs. Unreasonable beliefs can be commented on. No one is trashing reasonable beliefs. If insecurity arises by reading a poem that someone is trashing one's long cherished beliefs , it only means the beliefs are in very shaky grounds.

In the evolution of an individual belief comes and stays at a point of time. It could have been inherited, but it gets acceptance only when a certain evolutionary stage is reached. To say belief is not subject to reason is a tongue in cheek statement. Then dividing belief into reasonable belief and unreasonable belief is again flavorless alphabet soup. For instance I was born in an orthodox family. But I became a materialist in my college days when Communism had a strong influence on my thinking. Then I had a good teacher in my father with whom I had several sessions of argument about belief systems and God. As I had retained my basic hunger for truth and my father was a good teacher, I learnt a lot from him and my comrades and evolved. Then it was an exciting journey through various stages of development. A faith is picked up after a lot of questions, assessed, compared, eliminated and then picked up as the final discovery to be retained. Even after this there are periodic reviews on the basis of information and knowledge that keeps impinging on me. The world and life in it are not after all static. I leave that barb about feeling insecure unanswered for obvious reasons.

4. Belief in Isvara is a starting point for many. It is sad if it is also the ending point in their life. Isvara has to be *understood* and not just believed. From a belief view point one cannot understand certain messages,

This tendency to be judgmental about others is your weakness. I would addres just one question to you: Have you *understood* Isvara? If yes, please present briefly what is your *understanding*. You may also tell if you have understood Isvara, is it a belief now or something else and if something else what is that something?
 
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Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
தெய்வம் இருப்பது எங்கே?….
Published on December 13th, 2016 | 0 Comme

இதை நான் அவனுக்கு இன்னும் சொல்லவில்லை, சொல்லியிருந்தால் கோவில் பக்கமே இனி காலடி வைக்கமாட்டான். இப்போதைக்கு அவனை பொறுத்தவரையில் கோயிலுக்கு போவதற்கு ஒரு முக்கிய காரணம் ……..அம்மாவின் சோறு,கறியை விட கோவிலில் தரும் சோறும், சாம்பாரும் மிகவும் ருசி ! இப்போதைக்கு அப்படியே இருக்கட்டும், சாம்பாரின் ருசி போகும் வரை ……….

http://newneervely.com/தெய்வம்-இருப்பது-எங்கே
 
OP
OP
tks

tks

Well-known member
This is an attempt to stand the pasuram of Nammazhwar on its head and extract a meaning which is convenient to You. I am unable to agree with your limited interpretation.

Read this fully "உளனெனில் உளன் அவன் உருவம் இவ்வுருவுகள்,...."

The meaning of this line is that "If one understands that all the physical forms that we perceive in this world have Him in them as the antaryami, then He does exist there" There is no scope to exclude the numerous deities in various temple from these "physical forms".

Alwar says he is present in all forms by the words "இவ்வுருவுகள்". Not only in all times and everywhere but also in all forms. So I choose to worship Him by going to a temple. In the temple I have given a form to Him for my "convenience" and I know that he pervades that form and beyond too. For me the immediate least complicated form is just a replica of a human being like me. The anthropomorphous form. But I add a lot of attributes, which I may not have, to that form and pray to it. Not for anything in return (sauda) for the prayer. And then Alwar also says, he is everywhere as the antharyami. Myself being an ordinary human being with limited span of cognitive abilities, I find it very convenient to give Him a form and then worship. I know also that there are "great" people in this world who do not need this anthropomorphous form in a temple for worship. They can just stand looking at a direction (usually west while in India) in the empty space and worship. And there are those who can join an assembly of like minded people and just close their eyes and pray to the empty space. But my way is convenient for me. "ஒரு நாமம் ஒருருவம் ஒன்றும் இல்லார்க்கு ஆயிரம் திருநாமம் பாடி தெள்ளேணம் கொட்டுவது" எனக்கு பிடித்திருக்கிறது,திருப்தி கொடுப்பதாய் இருக்கிறது. And I never said, nor did Alwar ever say that அவன் இன்றி அணுக்களெல்லாம் அசையும். So your condescending last sentence is redundant to the context.

Alwar, according to Acharyas, speaks about an altogether different faith here though I am not touching that subject here.

So, I follow Thyagaraja who had sung "கன கன ருசிரா" and another Alwar (தொண்டரடிப்பொடி) who said "இச்சுவை தவிர யான் போய் இந்திரலோகம் ஆளும் அச்சுவை பெறினும் வேண்டேன் அரங்கமாநகருளானே".

It is a mindset. LOL.

No one is saying one cannot worship in any form one pleases. Someone may see Him in a cross and another in another form (and may call it by a different name). I did not imply anything condescending except sharing my understanding. But one needs a more inclusive heart to perceive that.

"Alwar says he is present in all forms by the words "இவ்வுருவுகள்". Not only in all times and everywhere but also in all forms." - this means He is existent in that beggar outside the temple doors. If a person kicks such a beggar with contempt, has hatred in his heart towards others then is there any meaning if such a person 'goes to God' and does some ritual? Is that really Bhakthi?

No answer is really expected -
 
OP
OP
tks

tks

Well-known member
தெய்வம் இருப்பது எங்கே?….
Published on December 13th, 2016 | 0 Comme

இதை நான் அவனுக்கு இன்னும் சொல்லவில்லை, சொல்லியிருந்தால் கோவில் பக்கமே இனி காலடி வைக்கமாட்டான். இப்போதைக்கு அவனை பொறுத்தவரையில் கோயிலுக்கு போவதற்கு ஒரு முக்கிய காரணம் ……..அம்மாவின் சோறு,கறியை விட கோவிலில் தரும் சோறும், சாம்பாரும் மிகவும் ருசி ! இப்போதைக்கு அப்படியே இருக்கட்டும், சாம்பாரின் ருசி போகும் வரை ……….

http://newneervely.com/தெய்வம்-இருப்பது-எங்கே

Interesting link ! Thanks for sharing
 
OP
OP
tks

tks

Well-known member
The context is limited to the poem quoted. It is just English language and we are using that as the common denominator here. If Tagore had a grand matured vision of the temple or the Godhead, it is not evident in the language here. I have to know Tagore for that by reading about him and not reading scriptures about Him. Yes, it is free world indeed. LOL.


That is okay. But how do you determine it?
You said "Hypocrisy is possible with any acts of rituals especially when there is a violation of intention of a ritual."
intention is an intensely mental process. So how do you know the mind of a bhakta who engages in a ritual? Only if you know that you can determine any violation of that intention.
Simply put every bhakta who indulges in a ritualistic worship does it with a perfectly justified underlying mental process. In the absence of a jnana drushti/mind reading ability to know the mind of such people, violation of intention is not determinable and you have to just accept that there was no intention to violate any dharma. Period.



In the evolution of an individual belief comes and stays at a point of time. It could have been inherited, but it gets acceptance only when a certain evolutionary stage is reached. To say belief is not subject to reason is a tongue in cheek statement. Then dividing belief into reasonable belief and unreasonable belief is again flavorless alphabet soup. For instance I was born in an orthodox family. But I became a materialist in my college days when Communism had a strong influence on my thinking. Then I had a good teacher in my father with whom I had several sessions of argument about belief systems and God. As I had retained my basic hunger for truth and my father was a good teacher, I learnt a lot from him and my comrades and evolved. Then it was an exciting journey through various stages of development. A faith is picked up after a lot of questions, assessed, compared, eliminated and then picked up as the final discovery to be retained. Even after this there are periodic reviews on the basis of information and knowledge that keeps impinging on me. The world and life in it are not after all static. I leave that barb about feeling insecure unanswered for obvious reasons.



This tendency to be judgmental about others is your weakness. I would addres just one question to you: Have you *understood* Isvara? If yes, please present briefly what is your *understanding*. You may also tell if you have understood Isvara, is it a belief now or something else and if something else what is that something?

Your weakness is to turn discussion points into attacking a poster. You are welcome to attack the content of a post. Having said that, you limited your attacks and hence I applaud that.

You have described how you have come to your current belief. Your description is nicely written and I wish that you continue your journey.

Then, there is a potential to discover that not only the fascination with communism etc was a confusion then , but also that even the current beliefs are also rooted in delusion. Understanding Isvara is a journey undertaken by every inquiring individual - one that wants to really know. If one is stuck in a belief, then so be it - the potential to be a Jignasu is denied in this life time.
 

renuka

Well-known member
"Alwar says he is present in all forms by the words "இவ்வுருவுகள்". Not only in all times and everywhere but also in all forms." - this means He is existent in that beggar outside the temple doors. If a person kicks such a beggar with contempt, has hatred in his heart towards others then is there any meaning if such a person 'goes to God' and does some ritual? Is that really Bhakthi?

No answer is really expected -



I really dont get this!

Anyone can kick anyone...a temple goer can kick a beggar...a beggar can kick a dog.

Sage Bhirgu can kick even Lord Vishnu..list can go on and on.

Anger leads to extreme behavior.

Frankly speaking what has this got to do with Bhakti?

Bhakti itself is hard to define...many claim to have Bhakti or even Shraddha or Higher Thinking for the matter...but these are mere claims..a weakness of the mind that imagines they are "better" than another.

The act of kicking does not have to be physical...one can "kick" another by a bloated ego too and looking down upon others by unsolicited claims having Shraddha/Higher Thinking Capacity etc.


So if such a person thinks that they have understood Ishvara ...is this really believable?

Vidya(Knowledge/Wisdom) always comes with Vinayam(Humility)...I guess we already know the answer.
 
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zebra16

Well-known member
I really dont get this!

Anyone can kick anyone...a temple goer can kick a beggar...a beggar can kick a dog.

Sage Bhirgu can kick even Lord Vishnu..list can go on and on.

Anger leads to extreme behavior.

Frankly speaking what has this got to do with Bhakti?

Bhakti itself is hard to define...many claim to have Bhakti or even Shraddha or Higher Thinking for the matter...but these are mere claims..a weakness of the mind that imagines they are "better" than another.

The act of kicking does not have to be physical...one can "kick" another by a bloated ego too and looking down upon others by unsolicited claims having Shraddha/Higher Thinking Capacity etc.


So if such a person thinks that they have understood Ishvara ...is this really believable?

Vidya(Knowledge/Wisdom) always comes with Vinayam(Humility)...I guess we already know the answer.

I like your overall post.

Coming to the high-lighted portion of your message, I cant resist asking, as ego (ordinary or bloated one) is assumed to reside in mind/head, do you mean head-butting, la Zinedine Zidane style..? :)
 

renuka

Well-known member
Coming to the high-lighted portion of your message, I cant resist asking, as ego (ordinary or bloated one) is assumed to reside in mind/head, do you mean head-butting, la Zinedine Zidane style..? :)


Nope...headbutting Boom Boom Madu style!!!!
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Your weakness is to turn discussion points into attacking a poster. You are welcome to attack the content of a post. Having said that, you limited your attacks and hence I applaud that.

You have described how you have come to your current belief. Your description is nicely written and I wish that you continue your journey.

Then, there is a potential to discover that not only the fascination with communism etc was a confusion then , but also that even the current beliefs are also rooted in delusion. Understanding Isvara is a journey undertaken by every inquiring individual - one that wants to really know. If one is stuck in a belief, then so be it - the potential to be a Jignasu is denied in this life time.

Where is the attack in my previous post. You owe it to me and other members here to pin point it. Do tell us or apologise.

There is no scope for a debate with you. I tried again and again to open up a debate with you and failed. You are able to see only upto the tip of your nose and not beyond. And you are very arrogant and confused. As you said arrogantly, you come here only in the 4th quadrant of your time as if people here in the forum are all jnana sunyams waiting for your wonderful wisdom quips even as they come from you when you are yawning and half asleep and that should have made me avoid you.

Be happy with your shining "superlative knowledge about everything about religon" and leave poor other members here who wallow " in mind set" "at low level" "condemned for ever not to be a jignasu" etc., so that they will be happy to keep away from your gospel outpourings. Arrogance, thy name is tks. LOL.

I note with amusement that you have not answered my question in the last para of my post. Wriggled out? LOL.

I reproduce that here for the convenience of other reading members here:

I would address just one question to you: Have you *understood* Isvara? If yes, please present briefly what is your *understanding*. You may also tell if you have understood Isvara, is it a belief now or something else and if something else what is that something?

I know you won't answer because you have not yet understood or known Iswara but frequently come here to present those flavorless alphabet soups in liberal quantities. Meanwhile go about happily with your "head butting" escapades in this forum. LOL.
 
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Vaagmi

Well-known member
No one is saying one cannot worship in any form one pleases. Someone may see Him in a cross and another in another form (and may call it by a different name). I did not imply anything condescending except sharing my understanding. But one needs a more inclusive heart to perceive that.

"Alwar says he is present in all forms by the words "இவ்வுருவுகள்". Not only in all times and everywhere but also in all forms." - this means He is existent in that beggar outside the temple doors. If a person kicks such a beggar with contempt, has hatred in his heart towards others then is there any meaning if such a person 'goes to God' and does some ritual? Is that really Bhakthi?

No answer is really expected -

Your wish fulfilled. LOL.
 
OP
OP
tks

tks

Well-known member
1. Where is the attack in my previous post.
.
.



2. I would address just one question to you: Have you *understood* Isvara? If yes, please present briefly what is your *understanding*. You may also tell if you have understood Isvara, is it a belief now or something else and if something else what is that something?

LOL.

Item 1. Where is the attack:
Post #56 "This tendency to be judgmental about others is your weakness" - This is an attack, not your typical name calling kind but in civil communication it is an attack.


Instead of sticking with the topic area you migrated into comments about me, weakness etc.


Post #64 - More typical the way you like to attack. I have lowered my expectations about your posts that all I could do was laugh out loudly reading your outburst. Yes, True LOL moment!


Item 2. Some questions do not have answers - that is not a flippant response. I have answered similar queries from you long time ago and it seems to have not registered. Let me provide a more simpler response with an example that may be easier to understand. It will be silly to belabor the example whose only intent is to convey a point.


If there is an epidemic and let us say there is a given medicine X that will help one deal with the illness. If I say, given your symptoms you may want to take this medicine X. I may further say go to a Doctor to get treated.


Rather than going to a Doctor and taking the medicine, imagine you arguing, "did you take the medicine" or "who are you to tell me" etc. That will be silly because the information (about medicine X) is not generated by me and can be independently verified by you if you wanted. In the end all I can say is if you want to get better, then consider doing your own research


Isvara is to be understood and not believed - That is not what I made up. You can take or leave it. May you should stick to 'going to God'

Other points


3. There is a lot of mistaken views about what is arrogance, what is humility and what is courage etc. You are welcome to call me names and if that helps you relieve your tension, so be it.


4. Where is all this anger coming from? All I had was a post, You dont have to respond to the post or even read it. I do not read most posts and I mostly skip what you write. Occasional sample once in a while tells me nothing has changed over the years.


A few people who are frequent posters here do not make up the reader base. It is silly to think one is representing the reader base since many who visit the site are not even members. I also do not care even if anyone reads my posts. I have stated elsewhere in another thread the reason why I post now and then.


You seem to be easily perturbed and that cannot be good for your health. I do not want to push any of your buttons because I think that will be causing Himsa and I do not want to do that.


Go to your God and be happy - Cant waste anymore of my Q4 time engaging with you.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I know this post is not a reply to me but I cant help commenting!LOL

Answers in Blue.

Item 1. Where is the attack:
Post #56 "This tendency to be judgmental about others is your weakness" - This is an attack, not your typical name calling kind but in civil communication it is an attack.


Instead of sticking with the topic area you migrated into comments about me, weakness etc.

LOL! LOL! LOL!

The word weakness was used by your when you mentioned that your weakness is you keep forgetting that some in forum do not have the higher thinking capacity to understand what you are "preaching".

So its only natural for another to note another weakness in you...after all weaknesses are just part of being human.

Diagnosis: It is NOT a personal attack.

If you feel using the word WEAKNESS is a personal attack then I guess you had earlier attacked yourself in the earlier post where you stated you HAVE a weakness.







Isvara is to be understood and not believed - That is not what I made up. You can take or leave it. May you should stick to 'going to God'

Go to your God and be happy


At the end of the day...even an Understanding goes thru the mind and senses...just like the act of "Going to God".

Even to plan to "Go to God".....one needs the mind and sense organs to execute the plan of action...nothing different from the act of "understanding Ishwara" ...its exposure of information to the mind and assimilation by the intellect and acknowledgement by the senses.

Its a known fact the the Ultimate state Brahman is not "Understood" ..it can NOT go tru the faculty of the mind.Read up please.

Your lack of understanding of the Ishwara concept has made you view everything else as STONE.

You fail to see Ishwara even in the act of Going to Temple or Going to God.

Kallai Mattum Kandal Ishwara Theriyathu,
Ishwara Mattum Kandal Kalladi Theriyathu.



Just to add ...someone who has really understood Ishwara would NOT use words like "Going to God"/"Go to your God and be happy etc "..He/she would view the act of going to temple/God as Ishwara going to Ishwara.

Samadarshinah totally absent...Man...you are totally NOT a Panditah!LOL








.
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
Two wrongs do not make it right.
Why this personal attacks?
We can discuss our understanding of any issue without feeling that alone is the correct version. We can present an alternative opinion without taking it personally.
Let us cool it. None of us has reached the state of Jeeven Mukta. We may feel we understand it all, till someone presents an alternative opinion.
One gentleman who could not stop making personal remarks, instead of commenting on the post has left the forum. We don't want the moderator to work extra hours.
 

tbs

Well-known member
Two wrongs do not make it right.
Why this personal attacks?
We can discuss our understanding of any issue without feeling that alone is the correct version. We can present an alternative opinion without taking it personally.
Let us cool it. None of us has reached the state of Jeeven Mukta. We may feel we understand it all, till someone presents an alternative opinion.
One gentleman who could not stop making personal remarks, instead of commenting on the post has left the forum. We don't want the moderator to work extra hours.
hi

just nothing..ONLY EGO AND HYPOCRATIC.....WE TAMBRAMS ARE FAMOUS FOR THESE TWO...
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Reply to post # 67:

Post #56 "This tendency to be judgmental about others is your weakness" - This is an attack. In civil communication it is an attack.

OK. If this is an attack what about this in post #67:
"You seem to be easily perturbed and that cannot be good for your health."
Perhaps in your perception this is a compliment. Strange indeed. But you still owe an explanation or an apology. You are reminded. LOL.

Instead of sticking with the topic area you migrated into comments about me, weakness etc.
Have you not done the same thing? LOL.

Some questions do not have answers - that is not a flippant response. I have answered similar queries from you long time ago and it seems to have not registered. Let me provide a more simpler response with an example that may be easier to understand. It will be silly to belabor the example whose only intent is to convey a point.

I understand your discomfiture. I leave it at that. No need of squirming. LOL.

Isvara is to be understood and not believed - That is not what I made up. You can take or leave it. May you should stick to 'going to God'

The way you keep repeating it, it gives a clear impression that you are stuck at that and have not moved forward. My experience says understanding comes as a milestone in a long road. After crossing that milestone comes several other milestones - I have listed them in my earlier posts- and then comes another milestone which is belief. Then comes the next milestone called unadulterated pure love for God entity which is also called bhakti and the journey continues further. You are pathetically wanting in getting this complete picture. God bless you soon. LOL.

There is a lot of mistaken views about what is arrogance, what is humility and what is courage etc.

These are your quips in just this one post under reference. Every post of you has such chest beating statements about your "superlative knowledge" about everything about religion. LOL:

1.I also do not care even if anyone reads my posts. I have stated elsewhere in another thread the reason why I post now and then (in my 4th quadrant time).

2.Cant waste anymore of my Q4 time engaging with you.

These are not arrogant statements according to you. Let readers be the judge.

You seem to be easily perturbed and that cannot be good for your health. I do not want to push any of your buttons because I think that will be causing Himsa and I do not want to do that.

LOL. I am amused. I welcome your decision. But please note. I will continue to read your silly and sillier posts here and will be offering my comments. I won't stop doing that. That is because i do not want arrogance, ignorance and loudmouthing of half baked ideas of a confused mind go unchallenged. i will certainly come here to challenge you every time you come here with one such silly post. Answering or not is your choice. But Members who read will draw their own conclusions as they have done now after watching your wriggling out from a reasonable question that was addressed to you. Keep writing. I enjoy the fun. LOL.
 
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Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
There are two circumstances that lead to arrogance: one is when you're wrong and you can't face it; the other is when you're right and nobody else can face it.

The later circumstances seems to be rarest of the rare!
 
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