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For those who are inclined--some food for thought.

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Vaagmi

Well-known member
Scientists, for the first time have separated a particle from one of its physical properties. Thus a quantum "Cheshire Cat" has been created. This name is given after the curious feline in "Alice in Wonderland" who vanishes, leaving only its grin behind.

Researchers took a beam of neutrons and separated them from their magnetic moment like passengers get separated from their baggage in an airport. This has been achieved at the Institute Laue-Langevin (ILL) in Grenoble, France.

This raises serious issues about the measurement paradox. We know we have the Lockean 'realist' account, according to which perception involves the creation of an 'inner reflection' of an independently existing external reality and we also have a Kantean 'anti-realist' concept of the "veil of perception" in epistemology.

So separation of matter and its characteristics, attributes, or qualities wilol be an important landmark in our understanding of the phenomenon of consciousness. Consciousness is traditionally attributed to an emergent quality of neural network. It is quite intriguing to note that even a single celled creature like an amoeba is conscious and takes appropriate measures to feed and avoid a hostile milieu.

Does consciousness operate necessarily through mediation by a biological matrix? Could it be all pervading like magnetic or gravitational field with the organic or biological substrate serving as merely a receiver and or processor?

Could consciousness be a mere form of energy that manifests in different forms by modulating its frequency and amplitude?

Can perception be merely a play of consciousness, a phenomenon that simultaneously projects and comprehends the external world as a holographic reality?

The separation and distinction of the objective world is because of external appearances. If the elementary fundamental constituent is the ubiquitous atom, then the perceived difference of the external form may just be a programme of the subject's perception. Rather than the different particles carrying the information of matter and its qualities it could be that different loci in the brain might be activated to perceive matter and its qualities simultaneously.

Monists like Spinoza take the position that there is some neutral substance of which both mind and matter are properties. The advaita school also believes in the all pervading unity that manifests as the subject and object simultaneously.

The object and therefore all its qualities and attributes might just be a projection of a self-referencing subject that generates an apparition of separation as well as perception.

extract from The Speaking Tree, The Times of India.
 

sravna

Well-known member
My guess is that space and time themselves are holographic realities being projections from an underlying reality. May be space and time themselves project the energies , physical and mental respectively.

My another guess is that all these projections including space, time are because of the varying energies in the underlying constant energy. These are projections because the variations are not in the true sense real but only for causing the perception of what are projected out of space and time.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sravna,

The write up seems to me as a sort of acknowledgment of the subtle entities or what we call Shukshma Sarira.

That is what lies beneath the gross entities once the gross is removed.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

The write up seems to me as a sort of acknowledgment of the subtle entities or what we call Shukshma Sarira.

That is what lies beneath the gross entities once the gross is removed.


Yes Renuka, doesn't hindu philosophy make sense now?
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Yes Renuka, doesn't hindu philosophy make sense now?

Sravna, I never doubted Hindu Philosophy..I have no problems with Philosophy but I am not too fond of religion.

At this juncture the Quantum Chesire Cat still has a perceivable "form" even though its very subtle. That is why I feel its the Shukshma entity.

I wonder if Consciousness is perceivable?

It shouldnt be right? Becos Brahman(Universal Consciousness) is supposed to be beyond perception.

Now the question.... Is Universal Consciousness really beyond perception or was it that humans did not have the "technology" yet to decode it?

Only time will tell.

But yet again Brahman is also beyond time!LOL
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

I go by advaita. Universal consciousness is not perceivable because our mind is a lesser reality than brahman. In the words of advaita we are veiled by maya and so cannot perceive brahman or universal consciousness. no technology can detect brahman because it is an absolutely changeless reality and can be detected only by something which can get totally spiritual like the mind. And that is self realization. What do you say?
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

I go by advaita. Universal consciousness is not perceivable because our mind is a lesser reality than brahman. In the words of advaita we are veiled by maya and so cannot perceive brahman or universal consciousness. no technology can detect brahman because it is an absolutely changeless reality and can be detected only by something which can get totally spiritual like the mind. And that is self realization. What do you say?

Dear Sravna,

When we decide to be explorers we really cant afford to have pre conceived notions of any kind.

I did have a doubt if Universal Consciousness as in Brahman can be decoded or be perceived becos Advaita does not seem to hint so.

But I would want to be totally free in thoughts now....that is I rather be not holding any pre conceived notion of any kind.

I dont think it is 100% wrong to think that one might be able to decode everything finally some day.

The problem is when we want to decode something we are only looking for uncovering the object to be decoded but we are not thinking in lines of "uncovering" in the observer too.

May be Universal Consciousness can be decoded finally but the decoding process also needs the observer to undergo some uncovering in form itself.

After all Advaita does say that The Knower of Brahman is verily Brahman.

So Advaita does not talk about impossibility.

Advaita talks about possibility..the problem is the observer does not want to uncover himself..That is Maya!
 

tks

Well-known member
Not food by any stretch of imagination ! The writer in the news story neither understands Physics nor the nature of consciousness. There is no connection.
 
OP
OP
Vaagmi

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Not food by any stretch of imagination ! The writer in the news story neither understands Physics nor the nature of consciousness. There is no connection.

It would be enlightening if the criticism is supported by an argument with reason instead of being a cryptic two liner. Three members here-that includes me- have thought it to be something. They have understood something from what the news presents and that is why they have written their posts. I look forward to understanding what is consciousness and what is physics according to sri tks. Hope he obliges.
 

tks

Well-known member
It would be enlightening if the criticism is supported by an argument with reason instead of being a cryptic two liner. Three members here-that includes me- have thought it to be something. They have understood something from what the news presents and that is why they have written their posts. I look forward to understanding what is consciousness and what is physics according to sri tks. Hope he obliges.

'What is physics' and 'what is consciousness' are too open ended questions for a forum discussion. Anyway responses for such questions are not topics that can be characterized by notions of 'according to a view point'.

For example, it will be inappropriate to say 'According to me objects fall towards the earth' ...

I have already given my reasons for my rejection of the article.

Truth is not subject to democracy.

Having said that, let me also say that the article appears to have provided 'food for thought' for few, please enjoy the party (I mean the discussions) LoL


Besides article is for those who are so inclined to appreciate - as the title suggests:)
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sravna,

Read this...

Quantum Physics » Quantum Yoga


Quantum Physics

YOGA AND QUANTUM PHYSICS

Why Quantum Yoga? Quantum physics has made incredible discoveries that echo the ancient insights of yoga. The cross-pollination that has occurred in the fields of science and metaphysics in the past years serves the individual with inspiration and empowerment. Quantum physics has proven that energy and matter are not so easily divisible, that in fact energy is more substantial than matter itself. In yoga practice we actually experience this insight first-hand. The body is not merely flesh and bone; it is imbued with prana, life-force. All mental fluctuations have a direct effect on this pranic flow, which in turn manifests as physical sensations and disease. We can revert this process by addressing body, breath and mind in a holistic manner.


THE TRUE NATURE OF REALITY

Einstein coined the term “superimposition” to describe the fact that on a sub-atomic level, the building blocks of our material universe can exist both as particles and wave-forms at the same time. Electrons are not bound by space-time restrictions, as they can be everywhere in the universe simultaneously. However, as soon as one attempts to measure this phenomenon, the particle leaves this quantum dimension and collapses into a single aspect of space-time reality.
Quantum Physics has therefore scientifically proven what the yogis, buddhas and mystics had always taught, namely that the reality we perceive as being out there in a fixed state is in fact an illusion. Instead what we are actually dealing with is a field of infinite possibilities, which is in a constant state of flux. The reality we perceive is what our brain has come to assume is there. Our experience therefore is merely a result of conditioning.

Yogi mystics posit against this illusory conditioning a direct experience of reality as a non-dual state of consciousness. This “by-passing” of the mind, which results from systematic techniques to stop its inner turbulence by temporarily suspending thought, is the only way we can catch a glimpse of how things really are.


THE QUANTUM METHOD OF YOGA

The way in which we experience the world changes as we refine our approach to it. Any type of asana-pranayama will do this to a degree, but if you turn your practice into a conscious act of self-healing that involves an active dialogue between body/energy and mind/heart, the results will be more powerful. In the context of yoga, as well as Quantum physics, the body (or matter in general) cannot be spoken of as divorced from energy. Though asana practice brings similar tangible results to those of conventional exercise routines, especially when coupled with pranayama, the energetic realignment that happens is empirically undeniable and scientifically measurable.

Quantum physics has revealed that matter in fact consists of spaces held together by energy. The thing that is more “real”, in the sense that it informs the qualities and characteristics of a thing, is this energy, not the object itself. That energy responds immediately when it comes into contact with other force fields, and our mind, though not itself the source, directs energy. Hence, as soon as the instruments of perception are directed to a thing, it responds and changes; so it is with the body in yoga. This is why for our practice to be truly effective and transformative, it has got to make room for such interactivity.

Furthermore, once we imbue oursadhana with greater consciousness, we will become skilled at sustaining this same level of awareness in all our actions. The importance of intention takes on a whole new dimension, and this realisation will cause fundamental change and improvement in our lives and that of others.

We hereby truly take responsibility for our health and happiness. Even if we always intellectually understood the karmic laws of cause and effect, it is only when we begin to actually observe the connections, that we attain some measure of control over our destiny. Quantum Yoga provides us with the tools that allow us to move in this direction. The first step is simple. Learn to listen and pay attention to what is really going on.
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Yes Renuka, as Science makes more and more progress it will begin to echo more and more our philosophy is what I think
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Yes Renuka, as Science makes more and more progress it will begin to echo more and more our philosophy is what I think


This time when I went to India I bought a book titled Quantum Physics and Buddhism.

I must read it fully..only read some of it so far.

There are so many formulas and calculations in that book!

It also talks about electrons being able to be at 2 or multiple places at the same time...must start reading that.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Science need not define how one thinks and expresses ones views. Problems that pose inherent contradictions points to the limits of science.Science having its own limitations, it may be necessary to come out of its limits and see a problem without such limitations.

Actually our philosophers have thought at that high level and have given very neat solutions to perplexing problems. If Science wants to come out of the contradictions that it finds itself in regarding to certain fundamental problems it is necessary for Science to broaden its vision and to embrace new methodology or pramanas which science has so far eschewed.

In that spirit I do not see any discussion that does not adhere to scientific ways as something to be rejected.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sravna,

I was seeing a documentary on Nat Geo and it was all about DNA and genetics.

There was one person who injected specific spider DNA into goat cells and he managed to produce a goat that produces milk that when churned produces silken stronger spider web like threads!

So then the topic was about producing a super human by combining animal DNA into humans for example to make a human that has the strength of an elephant..the speed of a cheetah too.

Then I was thinking that Hanuman is always depicted as a monkey with super human powers and a super human intellect too.

So may be there was some specific DNA transfer that could produce such a being.

After all the spider DNA and goat DNA produced results.

Keeping an open mind in science or philosophy is recommended I feel.

A closed mind without any proper reasons to close it up is like a Mannangatti!LOL
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

I was seeing a documentary on Nat Geo and it was all about DNA and genetics.

There was one person who injected specific spider DNA into goat cells and he managed to produce a goat that produces milk that when churned produces silken stronger spider web like threads!

So then the topic was about producing a super human by combining animal DNA into humans for example to make a human that has the strength of an elephant..the speed of a cheetah too.

Then I was thinking that Hanuman is always depicted as a monkey with super human powers and a super human intellect too.

So may be there was some specific DNA transfer that could produce such a being.

After all the spider DNA and goat DNA produced results.

Keeping an open mind in science or philosophy is recommended I feel.

A closed mind with any proper reasons to close it up is like a Mannangatti!LOL

Dear Renuka,

That is my point .One has to be open minded. You said it right.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
'What is physics' and 'what is consciousness' are too open ended questions for a forum discussion. Anyway responses for such questions are not topics that can be characterized by notions of 'according to a view point'.

For example, it will be inappropriate to say 'According to me objects fall towards the earth' ...

I have already given my reasons for my rejection of the article.

Truth is not subject to democracy.

Having said that, let me also say that the article appears to have provided 'food for thought' for few, please enjoy the party (I mean the discussions) LoL


Besides article is for those who are so inclined to appreciate - as the title suggests:)

Dear TKS ji,

If one wants to disagree or disprove anything..there needs to be a logical or even an illogical back up evidence.

I know truth is not subject to democracy but it seems to me some have autocratic views with an avalanche of words that only drown themselves.
 

tks

Well-known member
Dear TKS ji,

If one wants to disagree or disprove anything..there needs to be a logical or even an illogical back up evidence.

I know truth is not subject to democracy but it seems to me some have autocratic views with an avalanche of words that only drown themselves.


Dr Renu


My response on which you commented was not a one liner - there is appropriate level of information I have provided there.

One can take a good article with substance and critique it (agree with, disagree with etc).

There is a lot of garbage written in the press that cannot be commented on in any serious manner. They can only be rejected.

If you think by 'some have autocratic views' to mean me that is fine - not trying to win a medal here :)

I have nothing to prove - if someone has a hypothesis and use existing base of knowledge to make that hypothesis there are two minimal requirements. One is to ensure ensure credibility in representing the base of knowledge being referred to and the other is to make a logical case as to why the hypothesis has credibility.

So I agree that the burden of proof with 'logical evidence' needs to be presented in a credible manner by the one making the hypothesis.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dr Renu


My response on which you commented was not a one liner - there is appropriate level of information I have provided there.

One can take a good article with substance and critique it (agree with, disagree with etc).

There is a lot of garbage written in the press that cannot be commented on in any serious manner. They can only be rejected.

If you think by 'some have autocratic views' to mean me that is fine - not trying to win a medal here :)

I have nothing to prove - if someone has a hypothesis and use existing base of knowledge to make that hypothesis there are two minimal requirements. One is to ensure ensure credibility in representing the base of knowledge being referred to and the other is to make a logical case as to why the hypothesis has credibility.

So I agree that the burden of proof with 'logical evidence' needs to be presented in a credible manner by the one making the hypothesis.

I pressed Control F to look for the word ANSWER in your post..Nope I did not find it!LOL

I am waiting for you to state what is Physics and what is Consciousness and why the article does not make sense to you.

You can start off like this>

My personal opinion is:

1) Consciousness is..


2)Physics is...


3)Why marriage of Consciousness and Physics never happens...and why I prefer to see it in a divorced state.

If you have no answers just admit it yaar.

Ignorance is better appreciated than arrogance!LOL
 
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