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Existentially Non-Existent..

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I don’t know when I came here, but it should have been several centuries before. From those days to this day there has been lot of changes around me.

Once upon a time, I used to see a vast empty space behind my ‘praharam’. There used to be less number of people wishing to see me that time. It is difficult to climb seven hills. Only those who are bent on getting their wishes fulfilled from me would bother to climb up all the way and come.

Now I can’t see beyond ‘dwajasthambam’. Even that I am able to see only partially. There are a lot of structures everywhere. People who are coming to me have grown manifold. Now-a-days, u think, u wish to see me, u can board a bus and come to me directly. Still u may have to stand for 3-4 hours in queue, but that is not as difficult as it was in those days.

In the very initial days, it was only the tribes living here, who performed all the rituals. And then I started seeing a new set of people performing new poojas. New people bought over the place from the tribes. In between again there was a problem. For some time my place was closed. Nobody came near me. And then one day another set of people started performing pooja’s on me. And their traditions are continuing today.

When these tribes were worshipping me, there was no difference amongst them. Anyone could seek my blessings. Then when new set of people came, they allowed only somebody and not somebody else. For long time this was the system. Some decade back, they started allowing everybody.

But now I am seeing they are again going back to the same discrimination system. They are allowing some people (VIP’s) to come closer and stay longer with me, while others are being whisked away from a distance.

The world is going round and round. I keep smiling all the time.

***
But people are changing. Those days, my pooja’s would be performed with all sincerity. Now I can see that people are just paying lip service. Many things are running in their mind, while their lips are chanting words praising me.

That day, there was this priest who was performing the ‘Archana’ on me. There was this ‘VIP’, who was allowed to come much closer to me and was staying there for long time. This priest, as he was performing the pooja, was thinking about the relationship between VIP and an actor. He was thinking how that beautiful actor had got into a relation with this ugly looking VIP. "It should all be for money.. If I had sufficient money, I could also get her probably" he continued his thinking...

The priest approached the VIP and gave the archana plate to him. He told the VIP "Please take the saranya plate..". His brain twisted his tongue to say saranya instead of archana, as he was thinking of saranya and not archana. The VIP was very much upset. The priest lost his job.

Sometimes reactions happen fast. Action and reaction cannot be stopped. They keep going round and round. I keep smiling all the time.

***
That day I saw this hefty man coming to me. He makes money in every opportunity. And also in place there are no opportunities. Every year he comes to me and drops a big bundle into my Hundi. He will go down to the plains and stay in a hotel there. In the next day newspaper he would find the news item that somebody has dropped a large sum of money in Hundi. Once he finds it, he will leave for his town.

He thinks he is sharing his loot with me. He does not understand he is not. As he was entering my place, the man’s cell phone rang. Somebody talked money to him. He could not hold himself. He came near me with half-mind on me and half-mind on money. Once he went out, he started talking to that person. The whole purpose of his journey was not fulfilled.

Since he has got money, he thinks he is already blessed. Actually he is already suffering for his actions. He does not know where he is suffering. Some of his sufferings are in his physical body.

People who benefit from him including his children, suffer in variety of ways. In their mind, in their bodies, in their relationships.. Since he could not relate action and reaction, he thinks I am his partner in his doings and I am actively conniving with him.

Next year, this time, he will find who his partner really is. Sometimes reactions happen slowly. But reaction cannot be stopped. It would keep coming to you. I keep smiling all the time.

***
There is this couple, who prayed to me for curing their son’s brain tumor. They were all tears, from entry gate to exit gate. They were completely submerged in their wishes for their son. They have their inner power raised. They will face their life confidently with this inner power. This inner power gives them a major confidence boost to handle the situation.

Yes his tumor will be removed. The doctors would be successful in treating it now. Their son will recover and live for another 6 years. It will recur again after 6 years and he will die.

He is suffering his own self. This person cheated the government and got a job for himself. If he has not cheated the government, he would have got a different job and gone on a different path of life. Instead he chose the path of cheating, which appeared safest and attractive to him at that time. But it has landed him with this problem. He does not know how.

Being a government employee, he felt constrained in his career pursuits. He sent his son out at the first instance of a global opportunity, as the urge to get his son on a better career was very high. His son went to Egypt and worked in a Telecom company. His son was submerged in high power radio environment on towers all the time. This caused the brain tumor.

He does not even remember now that he got a job after cheating the government. He has forgotten that. I did not stand here and cause brain tumor to his son. He caused it to himself.
But who knows? He might have done something else and caused some other reaction, which is much worse than this, if he did not get the government job.

He can forget his actions. Reaction won’t. It will always follow the action. All actions are reactions to some actions. I keep smiling all the time.

***
Yesterday, my place was surrounded with Black Cats. A very famous politician with ‘Z’ category came to me. He was allowed to almost hug me. The priests fell on one another to perform poojas for him. For 4 hours they stopped others from seeing me. They gave my exclusive darshan to this person.

Unlike all others, he walked in directly. He stood there and started praying. He wanted a long political career. He wanted to retain his central minister-ship. He knew his party will not remain in power for long. But he wanted to extend it as much as possible.

After few minutes of praying, his anxiety calmed down a bit. He prayed that he would give a diamond-studded crown to me, if his party remains in power for 5 years.

But he cannot escape the suffering of his self. Next week his government itself will not be there. He thinks I can save it. He came to power through backdoor. He has to quit through the same door.

Action (his desire for power) and Reaction (his political career) are with him. Desires and ambitions keep going round and round. They spiral. They cannot be stopped. I keep smiling all the time.

***
I do not intervene. I don’t initiate action. I don’t initiate reaction. I allow people to suffer their own self.

Some people say that I do not exist. They are correct. Actually I do not exist. I do not react to anything, anytime. I allow people to suffer their own self. It is same as non-existent.

Some people say I exist and I bless them. They are also right. I am the crutch they hold on mentally. When they pray, they get either confidence or peace of mind. They think and take decisions with the confidence that I am always there to help them. Hence I do exist. I help these people from being inside them. Without me, they cannot live. I make these people help themselves.

I keep smiling all the time. I stand here and keep looking at all the actions and reactions going on around me.

I am existentially non-existent.

-TBT



 
hi
still ppl are fools....he resides in him...still he search everywhere....stilll he keeps smiling on......searching outside every where....

.some say do not exist....some say exist....nothing going to happen....exist or non exist.....existentially non-existent.
 
I don’t know when I came here, but it should have been several centuries before. From those days to this day there has been lot of changes around me.

Once upon a time, I used to see a vast empty space behind my ‘praharam’. There used to be less number of people wishing to see me that time. It is difficult to climb seven hills. Only those who are bent on getting their wishes fulfilled from me would bother to climb up all the way and come.

Now I can’t see beyond ‘dwajasthambam’. Even that I am able to see only partially. There are a lot of structures everywhere. People who are coming to me have grown manifold. Now-a-days, u think, u wish to see me, u can board a bus and come to me directly. Still u may have to stand for 3-4 hours in queue, but that is not as difficult as it was in those days.

In the very initial days, it was only the tribes living here, who performed all the rituals. And then I started seeing a new set of people performing new poojas. New people bought over the place from the tribes. In between again there was a problem. For some time my place was closed. Nobody came near me. And then one day another set of people started performing pooja’s on me. And their traditions are continuing today.

When these tribes were worshipping me, there was no difference amongst them. Anyone could seek my blessings. Then when new set of people came, they allowed only somebody and not somebody else. For long time this was the system. Some decade back, they started allowing everybody.

But now I am seeing they are again going back to the same discrimination system. They are allowing some people (VIP’s) to come closer and stay longer with me, while others are being whisked away from a distance.

The world is going round and round. I keep smiling all the time.

***
But people are changing. Those days, my pooja’s would be performed with all sincerity. Now I can see that people are just paying lip service. Many things are running in their mind, while their lips are chanting words praising me.

That day, there was this priest who was performing the ‘Archana’ on me. There was this ‘VIP’, who was allowed to come much closer to me and was staying there for long time. This priest, as he was performing the pooja, was thinking about the relationship between VIP and an actor. He was thinking how that beautiful actor had got into a relation with this ugly looking VIP. "It should all be for money.. If I had sufficient money, I could also get her probably" he continued his thinking...

The priest approached the VIP and gave the archana plate to him. He told the VIP "Please take the saranya plate..". His brain twisted his tongue to say saranya instead of archana, as he was thinking of saranya and not archana. The VIP was very much upset. The priest lost his job.

Sometimes reactions happen fast. Action and reaction cannot be stopped. They keep going round and round. I keep smiling all the time.

***
That day I saw this hefty man coming to me. He makes money in every opportunity. And also in place there are no opportunities. Every year he comes to me and drops a big bundle into my Hundi. He will go down to the plains and stay in a hotel there. In the next day newspaper he would find the news item that somebody has dropped a large sum of money in Hundi. Once he finds it, he will leave for his town.

He thinks he is sharing his loot with me. He does not understand he is not. As he was entering my place, the man’s cell phone rang. Somebody talked money to him. He could not hold himself. He came near me with half-mind on me and half-mind on money. Once he went out, he started talking to that person. The whole purpose of his journey was not fulfilled.

Since he has got money, he thinks he is already blessed. Actually he is already suffering for his actions. He does not know where he is suffering. Some of his sufferings are in his physical body.

People who benefit from him including his children, suffer in variety of ways. In their mind, in their bodies, in their relationships.. Since he could not relate action and reaction, he thinks I am his partner in his doings and I am actively conniving with him.

Next year, this time, he will find who his partner really is. Sometimes reactions happen slowly. But reaction cannot be stopped. It would keep coming to you. I keep smiling all the time.

***
There is this couple, who prayed to me for curing their son’s brain tumor. They were all tears, from entry gate to exit gate. They were completely submerged in their wishes for their son. They have their inner power raised. They will face their life confidently with this inner power. This inner power gives them a major confidence boost to handle the situation.

Yes his tumor will be removed. The doctors would be successful in treating it now. Their son will recover and live for another 6 years. It will recur again after 6 years and he will die.

He is suffering his own self. This person cheated the government and got a job for himself. If he has not cheated the government, he would have got a different job and gone on a different path of life. Instead he chose the path of cheating, which appeared safest and attractive to him at that time. But it has landed him with this problem. He does not know how.

Being a government employee, he felt constrained in his career pursuits. He sent his son out at the first instance of a global opportunity, as the urge to get his son on a better career was very high. His son went to Egypt and worked in a Telecom company. His son was submerged in high power radio environment on towers all the time. This caused the brain tumor.

He does not even remember now that he got a job after cheating the government. He has forgotten that. I did not stand here and cause brain tumor to his son. He caused it to himself.
But who knows? He might have done something else and caused some other reaction, which is much worse than this, if he did not get the government job.

He can forget his actions. Reaction won’t. It will always follow the action. All actions are reactions to some actions. I keep smiling all the time.

***
Yesterday, my place was surrounded with Black Cats. A very famous politician with ‘Z’ category came to me. He was allowed to almost hug me. The priests fell on one another to perform poojas for him. For 4 hours they stopped others from seeing me. They gave my exclusive darshan to this person.

Unlike all others, he walked in directly. He stood there and started praying. He wanted a long political career. He wanted to retain his central minister-ship. He knew his party will not remain in power for long. But he wanted to extend it as much as possible.

After few minutes of praying, his anxiety calmed down a bit. He prayed that he would give a diamond-studded crown to me, if his party remains in power for 5 years.

But he cannot escape the suffering of his self. Next week his government itself will not be there. He thinks I can save it. He came to power through backdoor. He has to quit through the same door.

Action (his desire for power) and Reaction (his political career) are with him. Desires and ambitions keep going round and round. They spiral. They cannot be stopped. I keep smiling all the time.

***
I do not intervene. I don’t initiate action. I don’t initiate reaction. I allow people to suffer their own self.

Some people say that I do not exist. They are correct. Actually I do not exist. I do not react to anything, anytime. I allow people to suffer their own self. It is same as non-existent.

Some people say I exist and I bless them. They are also right. I am the crutch they hold on mentally. When they pray, they get either confidence or peace of mind. They think and take decisions with the confidence that I am always there to help them. Hence I do exist. I help these people from being inside them. Without me, they cannot live. I make these people help themselves.

I keep smiling all the time. I stand here and keep looking at all the actions and reactions going on around me.

I am existentially non-existent.

-TBT

Shri TBT,

A few observations on the above very significant post.

1. "Action (his desire for power) and Reaction (his political career) are with him.", "Sometimes reactions happen fast. Action and reaction cannot be stopped."
etc., appear to be mutually contradictory. These could not be written as coming from the ENE (Existentially non-existent One), I feel.

2. Though this does not at all matter to the above post, when the tribes worshiped the ENE, it was considered as "KaaLi", then a time came when it was made KaaLi's son, Murugan, then it was viewed as Siva and thereafter as Vishnu, which belief continues to this day.

3. This ENE of the "seven hills" has only two hands really but is shown to devotees as if there are four hands holding different items. The conch (Sankham) and the discus (Chakram) are just supported by the ENE on His shoulders; He does not actually 'hold' these. This is a vestige from the last change to Vishnu from Siva.

4. "Some people say I exist and I bless them. They are also right. I am the crutch they hold on mentally. When they pray, they get either confidence or peace of mind. They think and take decisions with the confidence that I am always there to help them."

If the ENE can, as this asserts, "bless", then it exists really, or, the blessing is also non-existent. If reactions cannot be interfered with and the blessings - existent or non-existent - are helpful only to the extent of a psychological crutch, are not some of the people (called atheists, agnostics, non-believers, etc.,) who try to live without such a crutch, a better set of people?

5. I find that the universal and inexorable law of reactions to which the ENE makes reference, seems to have worked in a curious way in his case also. He is supposed to be indebted to Kubera and that is why devotees to this day do not fail to put at least a few coins in the Hundi. But, strangely, those who made Him to be Vishnu and also an indebted person, seem to have symbolically put a very wide "naamam" covering his eyes almost. Are they giving any subtle message to this ENE Himself? (உனக்கும் கோவிந்தா தான், எல்லாமே எங்களுக்குத்தான் !!)
 
Kindly forgive me for making this post with a few observations (cud not help posting this).
2. Though this does not at all matter to the above post, when the tribes worshiped the ENE, it was considered as "KaaLi", then a time came when it was made KaaLi's son, Murugan, then it was viewed as Siva and thereafter as Vishnu, which belief continues to this day.

3. This ENE of the "seven hills" has only two hands really but is shown to devotees as if there are four hands holding different items. The conch (Sankham) and the discus (Chakram) are just supported by the ENE on His shoulders; He does not actually 'hold' these. This is a vestige from the last change to Vishnu from Siva.
Dear Sir,
From a book (Brahma sri: Researches in archaeology, history, and culture in the new millennium : Dr. P.V. Parabrahma Sastry felicitation volume, Volume 1, page 97) it appears the original shrine was a Pallava built structure and named Venkatakottom or Vengadakottam with an open Koshta with a Sthala Vriksham wherein the idol was set up.

Back then, the idol was just Venkata or Thiruvenkata. However, the Pallavas conceptualized their descent from Vishnu; and hence probably the deity was first identified as Vishnu.

Ages ago human intelligence knew only markings and no structured carvings or sculpturing. People conceptualized energy homed in a kavu sthalam marked by a plant or tree(vriksham). But some of these places over time became homes to idols owing to the human 'desire' (which is in fact a developmental mark in human cognition or intelligence) to represent 'it' and see 'it'. Why cognition developed that way or 'desire' happened that way, we know not. Why the 'feeling' or 'presence' which one can call rationally just an 'imagination' happens we know not; but its just that it happens.

Thiruvenkata seems to be a native deity from a very-very ancient tribal period (and i find no form of evidence whatsoever to prove since when), and was known locally just as Venkata. But people owing to their wishes began to consider 'him' as Shiva, Vishnu, Shrinivasa, Virabhadra, Murugan or 'her' as Durga and Kali. Well, basically i feel this 'energy' is all of them and more; or put simply, just any form as one may sense, see; or wish to seek or conceptualize.

If the ENE can, as this asserts, "bless", then it exists really, or, the blessing is also non-existent. If reactions cannot be interfered with and the blessings - existent or non-existent - are helpful only to the extent of a psychological crutch, are not some of the people (called atheists, agnostics, non-believers, etc.,) who try to live without such a crutch, a better set of people?

5. I find that the universal and inexorable law of reactions to which the ENE makes reference, seems to have worked in a curious way in his case also. He is supposed to be indebted to Kubera and that is why devotees to this day do not fail to put at least a few coins in the Hundi. But, strangely, those who made Him to be Vishnu and also an indebted person, seem to have symbolically put a very wide "naamam" covering his eyes almost. Are they giving any subtle message to this ENE Himself? (உனக்கும் கோவிந்தா தான், எல்லாமே எங்களுக்குத்தான் !!)
Sir, i feel, people's nature is innate and tends to be so with or without God, a Guru, a crutch or whatever else one wishes to term it. Personally i think whatever is this 'blessing' is just the power of positive thought. If one thinks positively for an other person, then positive things will tend to happen, simply because reality can be a reflection of the thought process. A collective group of strong positive thoughts can be very comforting and healing. The ENE may or may not be a medium for the positive thoughts. Either way, no harm, and all good, if one is indeed capable of harnessing positive thoughts in the self for others.

Best wishes to you sir. Rest if needed can be followed up by email. Wanted to write this particular post openly.
 
Last edited:
Kindly forgive me for making this post with a few observations (cud not help posting this).

Dear Sir,
From a book (Brahma sri: Researches in archaeology, history, and culture in the new millennium : Dr. P.V. Parabrahma Sastry felicitation volume, Volume 1, page 97) it appears the original shrine was a Pallava built structure and named Venkatakottom or Vengadakottam with an open Koshta with a Sthala Vriksham wherein the idol was set up.

Back then, the idol was just Venkata or Thiruvenkata. However, the Pallavas conceptualized their descent from Vishnu; and hence probably the deity was first identified as Vishnu.

Ages ago human intelligence knew only markings and no structured carvings or sculpturing. People conceptualized energy homed in a kavu sthalam marked by a plant or tree(vriksham). But some of these places over time became homes to idols owing to the human 'desire' (which is in fact a developmental mark in human cognition or intelligence) to represent 'it' and see 'it'. Why cognition developed that way or 'desire' happened that way, we know not. Why the 'feeling' or 'presence' which one can call rationally just an 'imagination' happens we know not; but its just that it happens.

Thiruvenkata seems to be a native deity from a very-very ancient tribal period (and i find no form of evidence whatsoever to prove since when), and was known locally just as Venkata. But people owing to their wishes began to consider 'him' as Shiva, Vishnu, Shrinivasa, Virabhadra, Murugan or 'her' as Durga and Kali. Well, basically i feel this 'energy' is all of them and more; or put simply, just any form as one may sense, see; or wish to seek or conceptualize.


Sir, i feel, people's nature is innate and tends to be so with or without God, a Guru, a crutch or whatever else one wishes to term it. Personally i think whatever is this 'blessing' is just the power of positive thought. If one thinks positively for an other person, then positive things will tend to happen, simply because reality can be a reflection of the thought process. A collective group of strong positive thoughts can be very comforting and healing. The ENE may or may not be a medium for the positive thoughts. Either way, no harm, and all good, if one is indeed capable of harnessing positive thoughts in the self for others.

Best wishes to you sir. Rest if needed can be followed up by email. Wanted to write this particular post openly.

Palindrome,

Good to see you back after a long time. I am glad also about my post having provoked you into resuming your invaluable contributions to this Forum.

Coming to the first point, I agree with the totality of your observations. But I did not mean such a philosophical pov; I was referring to information collected in my readings. Agnihotram Ramanuja Thathachariar says in his book "Hindu Matham Enge Pokirathu?" (whither goes Hindu religion?) that he had one occasion to actually touch and inspect the idol at Thirupathi and he found that the idol has been carved with plait of hair (pinnal) as it would be for a female form. He states that the original tribals might have installed an idol of KaaLi. There is a reference to the Lord of Thirupathi as Murugan in a dedicatory verse, Subrahmanya Karnaamrutam which states that Subrahmanya is the presiding deity of the Venkata Hills. The question of whether it is Siva or Vishnu and the final decision that it is Vishnu, which happened during the life time of Ramanujacharya is well-known to most Vaishnavites know from one of their sacred books known as "Guruparamparai".

I was referring to the aforesaid successive metamorphoses only please.

I am unable to fully agree with your statement that "Ages ago human intelligence knew only markings and no structured carvings or sculpturing. People conceptualized energy homed in a kavu sthalam marked by a plant or tree(vriksham). But some of these places over time became homes to idols owing to the human 'desire' (which is in fact a developmental mark in human cognition or intelligence) to represent 'it' and see 'it'."

I think archaeologists have unearthed mother goddess statuettes of very great antiquity (30, 000 B.C. or so). Even before this, tribes had resort to Totems which probably were the first materialization of Man's desire to please some great power and seek protection of that power from the many dangers and enemies which primitive man might have had to face. I don't know whether tree-worship was there in the remote antiquity but the kaavu concept, I think, must have started when humans changed from hunter-gatherer societies to agricultural practices by slashing and burning forests which had till recently provided sustenance for them.

I am unable to understand how the concept of "blessing" can straightaway turn into positive thought. What is more likely is, as said in the OP, the very fact of prayer may be taken as equivalent to "having secured the grace of God" and this emboldens the mind to face critical or disagreeable situations with more self-confidence, till the end-result proves to be unpleasant. Then there will be a lot of disgust and complaint about the God, which will vanish in due course. In fact old Malayalam novels carry examples of very devoted persons showering the most abusive epithets on their favourite Goddess (Bhagavati, usually). Regarding the power of group prayers/ mass prayers in bringing about favourable results for the person for whom such prayers are done, also I tend to be sceptical, though I agree that most cultured people will say, "we can't do anything; we will pray sincerely for ...".
 
Go Vinda..

See my replies inline...

Shri TBT,

A few observations on the above very significant post.

1. "Action (his desire for power) and Reaction (his political career) are with him.", "Sometimes reactions happen fast. Action and reaction cannot be stopped."
etc., appear to be mutually contradictory. These could not be written as coming from the ENE (Existentially non-existent One), I feel.

TBT: What is contradictory in the observer seeing that actions and reactions are dependent on the players and reactions happening either fast or slow but definitely happening..?

2. Though this does not at all matter to the above post, when the tribes worshiped the ENE, it was considered as "KaaLi", then a time came when it was made KaaLi's son, Murugan, then it was viewed as Siva and thereafter as Vishnu, which belief continues to this day.

TBT: The names u mentioned are given to the idol by players at different points of time. The supreme consciousness behind that idol is unnamed.

3. This ENE of the "seven hills" has only two hands really but is shown to devotees as if there are four hands holding different items. The conch (Sankham) and the discus (Chakram) are just supported by the ENE on His shoulders; He does not actually 'hold' these. This is a vestige from the last change to Vishnu from Siva.

TBT: There is also a claim that the idol is that of Buddha or Bodhisatva. So what..? BTW, there are strong arguments in that front too..

4. "Some people say I exist and I bless them. They are also right. I am the crutch they hold on mentally. When they pray, they get either confidence or peace of mind. They think and take decisions with the confidence that I am always there to help them."

If the ENE can, as this asserts, "bless", then it exists really, or, the blessing is also non-existent. If reactions cannot be interfered with and the blessings - existent or non-existent - are helpful only to the extent of a psychological crutch, are not some of the people (called atheists, agnostics, non-believers, etc.,) who try to live without such a crutch, a better set of people?

TBT: The beggar who survived in the cold night in a cold pond with the help of heat from a distant light, as in the Birbal-Akbar story; the Supreme consciousness manifests as heat. For EVR Periyar the supreme consciousness manifested as his belief to banish Brahmanism from his region.

5. I find that the universal and inexorable law of reactions to which the ENE makes reference, seems to have worked in a curious way in his case also. He is supposed to be indebted to Kubera and that is why devotees to this day do not fail to put at least a few coins in the Hundi. But, strangely, those who made Him to be Vishnu and also an indebted person, seem to have symbolically put a very wide "naamam" covering his eyes almost. Are they giving any subtle message to this ENE Himself? (உனக்கும் கோவிந்தா தான், எல்லாமே எங்களுக்குத்தான் !!

TBT: Go-Vinda means one that seeks wealth/plentitude/evolution. The other end of one who seeks wealth is that one being a pauper (satirically). Hence Govinda has become a word of satire for a pauper. It is not enough we have Go. We need to be Govindas to evolve or else we will perish.


)
 
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