DMK revives EVR’s hate campaign against Hindus

[hariharan1972]

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri Hari![/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I continue with my Black and Whites.....[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The cm is an self-proclaimed athiest, he didn't have any value for the scriptures nor god. As a democratic politician , he is very much interested in stroking the complexes among various sections of society, for various obvious reasons...[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]At this point , I stop my balck and whites here. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If you don't feel these are balck and white as I put forth. Please let's have a cordial discussion, please state the reason why you don't felt that way. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](I've seen your other post, you declaring the scriptural interpretation are “too strict” or “wrong”, With your earlier posts, accepting that you don't know much about scriptures, I couldn't connect how , on what basis you are qualified to assess and form a conclusion like this. )[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]malgova.mango[/FONT]

Mr MM,

Usssssssssssh........!

That was my exasperation !

I wrote religious "dogma" (means doctrine according to me) but you read it as "dogmatic" and pulled me up !

I said that my interpretations of scriptures could be "wrong" (blissfully !) but you read it as my interpretations could be "strict". When i am a votary against strict interpretations, how could i be dishing them out myself !!!

I have explained why i think there is no need for anyone to be "qualified" for a matter which IMHO requires only "logical reasoning" (ratiocination !). You havent answered me but you bring it up here again.

So this is it sir ! I give up !

If you "sincerely believe" that a "calcified mindset" is what we need and God willed us or rather wills us to have this, then i have nothing more to add.

Can we agree upon this atleast ?

In your Universe, you believe what you believe and in my Universe, let me believe what i want to believe.

I am not claiming to be an authority on Hinduism ; I have my "reservations" about reservations ; I have anathema for the Dravidian parties ; I think i am reasonably a reasonable person ; So with this psyche, i strongly believe that it is incorrect to prevent a Hindu from serving as a priest if he is prepared to live the life ordained for a priest and his "qualified" to be.

Even if you were to quote any veda or scripture which "explicitly" states that a Non-Brahmin cannot be a priest, i would continue to hold the view that i hold.

I just had a chuckle when you were suggesting thru the post i quote here, that i should be having a "cordial discussion" with you. The reason i chuckled is that i thought i was doing just that. It seems that you arent convinced of my cordiality. My apologies are due to you.

This is a closure from my side. I have nothing else to say/add.

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Sri Hari!

Though you have closed your doors. I still want to give some parting words for yor kind considerations. May be I'm a last word freak....

Our native culture cherishes individual freedom, no body is authorised to issue decrees...
"Brahmins never issued decrees, to control others as someone might think....." .

We all simply followed the Vedas. We saw Vedas as Ishvara swarupa, we gladly oblige to the commandments of the "Prabhu Samhita" ...

The are many types of temples, some followed local village customs, other as per the agama and veda shastra. For temple that follow the vedic tradition , we should not interfere in their affairs.

Duty comes first, then rights.. who is supposed to do what duty is strictly as per the shastra.. no human has the authority ...

We should respect this, although we may think otherwise and couldn't reconcile with the Vedic injunctions.

Temple is to worship Lord, to please the Lord, to propitiate the Lord - clearly THE LORD ONLY HAS THE AUTHORITY. No humans has the authority to meddle in this affair.

For your considerations..
MM

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

முதலைக் கண்ணீர்

Dear all
The following information was released in Tamil Nadu state assembly by DMK Govt.

There are total 6 centers started by TN Govt. for priestly training for non-brahmins in Tamil Nadu.

On total, there are 207

76- Backward class students

55- Most Backward class students

34 - Scheduled caste students

42 - other caste students.

I consider this as epitome of humiliation. If Tamil Brahmins have any back bone, they should move to other states or stop paying taxes to TN Govt. This is time to protest.

You would think these are people vying for posts which pays them Rs. 25000 per month on appointment. Does it? The temple Archakas are one of the poorest paid jobs in India. Quoting the earnings of very popular temple priests like Sabari Mala, Guruvayur and Thirupathi does not make any sense. There are less than half a dozen such temples in India.

What have the temple Archakas have got after generations of service to devotees? Nothing but grinding poverty.

What has the Brahmin community done for them? Nothing. Did the community raise its voice when the Archakas are paid less than the Sweepers in Tamil Nadu temples? Many Beggars outside temples have more income than the priests.

Now some Brahmins feel threatened because this great privilege is being taken from them. Is it a great privilege? Will you send your son to be an Archaka?

What is that status of the Gurukkal community in our society?

I have spent years in temples and know the position of the Sivacharyas and Bhattacharyas? I have a lot of respect for them because they keep the temples alive for devotees like me in spite of great odds.

Tell me how many of us drop notes in the Pooja Thattu?

The Brahmins community does not value its Archakas and Sasthirigals. We pay them less then the plumbers, sweepers and electricians. And if a Sasthirigal rides a scooter and has a cell phone, there are many sarcastic comments mostly from Brahmins.

In order to make the scheme successful, the Government will be forced to offer better service conditions and pay. Brahmin community should ensure that these are applied to the existing Archakas also.

In Tamil Nadu there are a large number of temples where the priest is a Pujari. Most of these are not Brahmins. They have considerable clout and they opposed the ban on Animal slaughter imposed by the earlier government. So it is wrong to say that the Brahmins have a monopoly over the Temples.

An old news about the Temple Pujaris. [SIZE=+1]Kanchi Sankaracharya has compared these village temple poojaris to the soldiers engaged in protecting the country’s border.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0303/231.html

Why have we allowed the Government to project a view that all temple priests are Brahmins?
[/SIZE]

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Happyhindu

Just sharing some thoughts with you....

"Muthalla kaneer " is perfectly ok, it initiates us to action , "Azhutha pulla than pall Kudikkum " ..........Later we don't need to cry.

Now with all Jatis, employed in Police sector, what happens? Didn't we hear news ? "Rape in the cell" , Bonding between the theif and the police etc........
"Velie payira menja kathai" - Today Law and Order situation.

regards
malgova.mango

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Happyhindu!

Did you see the logic - Humans have no authority . Temple is "Lords HOUSE" , He dictates the term, not brahmins or anybody. This applicable only for temples which follows "HIS" word -shastram. Brahmins are mere followers. No government are anybody should be " busybody " poking their nose.

What do you say?

Regards
malgova.mango

 

[appaiah]

Dear Sri Happyhindu

You had stated:

I did come across a priest in the north smoking a beedi in the temple precincts but away from the sanctum sanctorum (one might say he needed a puff since it was very cold and he was not covered - no upper garment, was really shivering). Bn visiting all sorts of temples in Tamilnadu since a few years for the love of them and never have I (neither has anyone I know atleast) come across a priest doing any such thing - persumably since there is no necessity to, given the warm weather throughout there. So even if one were to attribute a 'character blemish' to some one, there might be a reason why he is doing it; depending on various regional compulsions / necessities.

Even admitting cigaratte, bidi or liquor are "reasonable" as "necessities" arising out of "various regional compulsions", what could be the regional compulsion for a Gurukkal (of current generation) in a large temple to be the Secretary of "Rajani Kant Fans Association". At least that could be classified as "reasonable" as Rajani goes to Himalayas to do meditation. What could be the compulsion for his cousin Gurukkal to be the Secretary of "Ilaya Thalapathi Vijay Fans Association"? Vijay's full name is Joseph Vijay, incidentally.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Happyhindu!

Did you see the logic - Humans have no authority . Temple is "Lords HOUSE" , He dictates the term, not brahmins or anybody. This applicable only for temples which follows "HIS" word -shastram. Brahmins are mere followers. No government are anybody should be " busybody " poking their nose.

What do you say?

Regards
malgova.mango

Agreed. MM.

Can you tell me which Sasthram the Dikshidars of Chidambaram are following in the Chidambaram temple. On which Sasthra is the present stance of Dikshidars based? The name of the Sasthra and its date You yourself said the temple is not Agamic. There were no temples during Vedic times.

Thanks.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear MMji,

Several young ppl with young families (and modernization in faith and belief systems notwithstanding), prefer proper priests from temples todate. Or perhaps i come from the old school with similar ppl around me as a close set and therefore lack proper exposure None of us believe in inane rituals but cannot really go by without the traditional ceremonies / rituals associated with marriage, child-birth, and so on. So a priest remains an integral part of any hindu's life.

Am only wondering who are the 207 ppl willing to become priests -- esp if the earnings of a temple priest is that low as Nacchinarkiniyanji says -- perhaps they are into this for pride and power (how pride and power? - somehow i associate both with money again) or they are some political guys in disguise (which is worse since definitely they will not be doing justice to their job with no bhakti). However, i may be wrong in presuming things like this. But again, what right do politicians have to interfere in matters of anyone's faith?

You are confusing the Sasthirigals with Archakas. The person who officiates in the functions is the Sasthirigal or Purohits. They hang around in temples. In Tamil Nadu most of the Archakas belong to the Gurukkal /Sivacharya caste and are Saivites whereas the overwhelming majority of Brahmins are Smarthas and Vaishnavites. These people will not engage the temple priests for Purohitam.

They are the Dalit Brahmins.

If you think I am wrong ask your father whether you can marry a Gurukkal girl.

 

[visveswaran]

DearSir
a.verygood discussion.unity will suceed
visveswaran

 

[Saab]

Dear MMji,

Vedic time is not dead. When Vedic time ends there would be pralayam. I remember Bhagavan Ramana saying that the world is 'floating' on water as long as even one person is chanting the Veda. Once that ceases to happen, the world will drown.

Chidambaram is not following Agamic rules but Vedic rules. That is the reason that it is away from the reach of the Govt. See the Supreme Court judgement.

Regards,
Saab

 

[malgova.mango]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri Saab![/FONT]

For your coniderations with respects...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Both Agama and Veda traditions are practised in Chidambaram temple. Sthala Purana of Chidambaram temple details the timeless nature of this temple.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For Agama , it follows – Makutaagama .[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Spatika Lingaswamy is conscreated and worshipped according to Veda Shastra. Before, Lord Nataraja's dance – there is a Mulavar worshipped by the Muni, Vyagrapadhar. It is one of the temples where all the good traditions found a place. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Both Aagama and Vedas are Shruti only, Veda Vyasa compiled the Vedas , Aagamas and many other tantric traditions are not compiled by Sage Vyasa, but came from Lord himself and passed onto generation after generation by tantric traditions. Aagama is one such tantra on the temple science, taught by the Lord for the well-being of the society. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Curiously one of the tantric tradition from Lord Shiva is followed by Tibetian Buddhists.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Vedic time is beginning less - infinite...[/FONT]

Regards
MM

Dear MMji,

Vedic time is not dead. When Vedic time ends there would be pralayam. I remember Bhagavan Ramana saying that the world is 'floating' on water as long as even one person is chanting the Veda. Once that ceases to happen, the world will drown.

Chidambaram is not following Agamic rules but Vedic rules. That is the reason that it is away from the reach of the Govt. See the Supreme Court judgement.

Regards,
Saab

 

[malgova.mango]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri N,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The many Puranas details temple worship in previous yugas. The sthala puranas of many temples details the timeless nature of many temples...[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Just some examples...[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sage Markandeya's abahaya-aalinganam with the god happened in “His” temple only....[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lord Krishna, took Rukamani Devi from the temple to marry her................[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Kudmiyappa devar , tested and showed the devotion of Kannappa nayanar in His temple only...[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I can't really understand your statement that there is no temple in Vedic times. Hope I didn't say anything to offend you. [/FONT]

Regards
MM

 

[malgova.mango]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri HH,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brahmin priest are mere followers of scriptures, they are not Law makers . Do you recognize that?[/FONT]

Regards
MM

 

[happyhindu]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri HH,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brahmin priest are mere followers of scriptures, they are not Law makers . Do you recognize that?[/FONT]

Regards
MM

Now am totally confused :laugh: :faint:

Please elaborate on this. Who on earth were the law-makers then?
(Man, hv bn fed on wrong info....thankgod i found this place to get my doubts cleared).

 

[veekay]

ahh vanam,

are you willing to say all hindus are equals? are you willing to be inclusive that all castes including dalits are equal to the brahmins?

should we not have a sense of fairness, that we invoke 'Hindu' as a concept, when we deal with each other? in your other post you have insinuated a supposed humiliation to the brahmins. here you talk of hindus inclusively.

i have found, when convenient, self proclaimed brahmins are 'Hindu inclusive' to suit their immediate purpose. otherwise, it is the moans of 'discrimination' and 'deprival of due rights'

most of us, have gone way beyond that. grow up.

I want to settle this issue for the last time. My dear Indians, Manu's varnasasthra has to be understood in the right context.
All are equal -there is no doubt about this - there is no evidence of institutionalized discrimination in our society. For example – US constitution was written with blacks as being less than human and therefore not entitled to rights. On the contrary, we are magnanimous to this day to treat animals as gods.
All humans are equal however a school student is not the same as a university graduate and he's is not equal to a Professor. The teacher is supreme. In that sense, the Brahman is supreme - That's all.

All I would like to tell is this - our ancestors were the most brilliant and solved the puzzle of life accurately. It is just that we stupid Indians are not honest to find the truth. Because it will be uncomfortable to know the rascal we are.

For the sake of argument – Brahmans are the villains of India. However, they are respected all over the world –how come? Is everyone in the world a fool or are the Non-Brahmin's of Tamilnadu fools?

 

[malgova.mango]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitaha”[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri HH![/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Surprised by your reaction, Anyway I'm not joking.........[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Let me try to elaborate, assuming your quest is well-meant and you are a genunie seeker....[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In our native culture we followed the scripture, scripture is a revelation of an Order , a truth revealed to the Seers. It is similar like a scientist discovering the order of electricity, He didn't invent the electricity, he discovered this form of energy and deviced a way to tap it. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Seers didn't invent the Laws – They discovered the Laws . The purpose of the Laws are many, but here I restrict to guide different sections of the human society to find fulfillment in their pursuits of – Pleasure (Kama), Security (Artha), (Dharma) and (Moksha) in a structured way. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]By following the modern culture – Pleasure (Kama) and Security (Artha) may be fulfilled, but there are no avenues for the other two pursuits. (meaning no way for “Vimochanam”) - [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif](a question for the people who wants to do away with the traditional approach - Do you all considered this? Eating,drinking,sleeping,reproducing,communicating, parenting – even the animals do, these are all fundamental living-being issues, and nobody question this pursuits. Infact produce more and more food, and don't hoard it , distribute it , this is what said in Vedas.... Please consider all the issues ........ )[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]We meaning the people of our native culture, including all the Jatis, followed the rules of the “Laws” as discovered by the Seers. We consider the “Laws” as Divine guide in our search for all the 4 pursuits. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So there are no “Law makers” only “Law seers” - Law/order/truth/Dharma is the intellectual form of “GOD” hidden, but revealed to the tapas of the Seers.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Here , the Brahmin priest followed the – Order as in “Aagama” which deals with temple science, the source of knowledge is from God himself. - Are you clear now?[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Could you follow, up to this? [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]MM[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]P.S[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ponder..........[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In our native culture there are no human rules or an order born out of human intellect be it from a Brahmin or King. This is the beauty of our culture, to me ofcourse. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Even a King is only a Law Keeper and is expected to keep the Laws of Nature or Divine Laws, only then he is respected as a good King. He can make Laws, but only to serve for the above purpose.[/FONT]

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri N,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The many Puranas details temple worship in previous yugas. The sthala puranas of many temples details the timeless nature of many temples...[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Just some examples...[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sage Markandeya's abahaya-aalinganam with the god happened in “His” temple only....[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lord Krishna, took Rukamani Devi from the temple to marry her................[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Kudmiyappa devar , tested and showed the devotion of Kannappa nayanar in His temple only...[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I can't really understand your statement that there is no temple in Vedic times. Hope I didn't say anything to offend you. [/FONT]

Regards
MM

My computer has broken down and I am not keeping well. May be one too many baths in Ganges and standing in the hot sun performing Yagyas.

You want to know what it feels to conduct a yaga. Do one on the Banks of the Ganges during Sunrise. Not your Sasthirigal. Do it yourself with his help and offer Ahudhi.

The Vedic religion was purely a religion of Yaga and Yagyas. What we call nowadays as Homas. The only way to reach the Gods was by way of Ahudhis.

It was performed in the open. The life of the Vedic Seers was a simple one. They were in tune with the nature. They had Sahaja.

The temples and rituals came around in the Agamas. Yes. The Itihasas do talk about temples. But most of the temples are of the Puranic period.

That is why temple visit is not considered by many Brahmins to be essential Nithya Karma.

There are many popular practices today which have no Agamic/Vedic sanction. But that does not mean that they are wrong.

A Seer or Guru teaches a particular way of which he has experience. This is the way that he has taken to reach salvation. He teaches that way to the Shishyas and a Sampradhaya is born.

So a temples also have traditions. We leave it at that.

 

[malgova.mango]

Though my hands are very itchy, I agree to leave , on the temple issue.

On Yaga, I do perform daily 2x , giving ahudhi to devas, mine is ofcourse indoor one. I don't need any help for this from any shastrigal.

Thru action one can express his goodwill - and can receive good results. That much only can happen.

Without the determitant of one's Nithya Karma - elders do ask us to go to temple - "Aalayam thozhuvathu Salavum Nanru"

Ofcourse, for Seers, Atma-Gnanis - "Deham Devalayo proktha" - temples are not necessary for them.



For

 

[Ramaa]

Dear Happyhindu,

Hope you get well soon.

Regards,
Ramaa