• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

DISINTEGRATION OF IYER COMMUNITY

CHANDRU1849

New member
The survival of any community depends on vital elements like cooperation, coordination, unity, integrity and interest in the community. It looks these are totally
lacking in Iyer community.

In the early 70s, after the passing away of SS Vasan, his son did not match the competition from AVM and Vijaya Vauhini, Gemini Studio vanished. Due to technical
controversy, Standard Motors became a thing of the past. When one of the promoter's daughter from Simpson Group married an Iyengar, it is not known whether
it belongs to Iyer or Iyengar Group.

The fate of Easun Group, WS Industries, Rane is not known.

Already two popular persons committed suicide due to lack of financial support - G Venkateswaran, a Chartered Accountant and film producer and V B Chandrasekhar, an Engineer turned Cricketer.

The latest episode is taking over of India Cements by a North Indian Group. It seems the promoter's daughter married a Chettiar from AVM Group and no news
about his son.

Are Iyers meant only for Namasangirthanams, singing Carnatic Music and begging in temples?

This is really a tragedy.
 
Can a Marwari Company be taken over by a non-Marwari?

Will a Gujju relinquish control of his own empire?

Tamil Brahmins are not aggressive. We are a docile community;

The reason for the examples is that is that we as a community do not know how to tap resources and fight the aggressors!

You missed Enfield group in this list! That was another famous Iyer group that has been taken over by the vultures! Do you know that the multibillion valuation of Eicher Motors is on account of Royal Enfield which is now part of the North Indian Eicher group that is valued at Rs 1,32, 000 crores as of date! Definitely they gave few crumbs to the Iyers in terms of Management positions! But the wealth is enjoyed by Vikram Lal and his son Sidharth Lal!

The IT revolution did get us some positions!

We missed the telecom revolution, the multi-billion-dollar wind & solar renewable energy business!

There is an unfavorable political climate against us created by the Tamil rulers who do not want to see us progress!

But what have we done? We have done nothing at all to come out of that!

Unless we control the financial money-making business and become like the Jews or the North Indian Banias and Marwaris we cannot come out of this beggar mentality!
 
Can a Marwari Company be taken over by a non-Marwari?

Will a Gujju relinquish control of his own empire?

Tamil Brahmins are not aggressive. We are a docile community;

The reason for the examples is that is that we as a community do not know how to tap resources and fight the aggressors!

You missed Enfield group in this list! That was another famous Iyer group that has been taken over by the vultures! Do you know that the multibillion valuation of Eicher Motors is on account of Royal Enfield which is now part of the North Indian Eicher group that is valued at Rs 1,32, 000 crores as of date! Definitely they gave few crumbs to the Iyers in terms of Management positions! But the wealth is enjoyed by Vikram Lal and his son Sidharth Lal!

The IT revolution did get us some positions!

We missed the telecom revolution, the multi-billion-dollar wind & solar renewable energy business!

There is an unfavorable political climate against us created by the Tamil rulers who do not want to see us progress!

But what have we done? We have done nothing at all to come out of that!

Unless we control the financial money-making business and become like the Jews or the North Indian Banias and Marwaris we cannot come out of this beggar mentality!
???
May be a Brahmin is more suited for a life which focusses more on pursues like education and not the aggressive money making bussiness.

Actually in life tons of money takes no one anywhere.
Lots of aggressive money making bussiness generate lots of Karma.

The cut throat competition, under the counter dealings, Rajasic mindset where money and power is the motive drags one down the spiritual scale.

Why get into all this mess when one can focus on fields which jive with ones mindset.
Education based occupations that focusses on the intellect for betterment of the world.
Eg the field of IT, medical sciences, research, space exploration etc.

There are a lot of fields where Brahmins do well..its those fields that need to be focussed on.
 
???
May be a Brahmin is more suited for a life which focusses more on pursues like education and not the aggressive money making bussiness.

Actually in life tons of money takes no one anywhere.
Lots of aggressive money making bussiness generate lots of Karma.

The cut throat competition, under the counter dealings, Rajasic mindset where money and power is the motive drags one down the spiritual scale.

Why get into all this mess when one can focus on fields which jive with ones mindset.
Education based occupations that focusses on the intellect for betterment of the world.
Eg the field of IT, medical sciences, research, space exploration etc.

There are a lot of fields where Brahmins do well..its those fields that need to be focussed on.
That job is wide open for the Vaidikas!
 
???
May be a Brahmin is more suited for a life which focusses more on pursues like education and not the aggressive money making bussiness.

Actually in life tons of money takes no one anywhere.
Lots of aggressive money making bussiness generate lots of Karma.

The cut throat competition, under the counter dealings, Rajasic mindset where money and power is the motive drags one down the spiritual scale.

Why get into all this mess when one can focus on fields which jive with ones mindset.
Education based occupations that focusses on the intellect for betterment of the world.
Eg the field of IT, medical sciences, research, space exploration etc.

There are a lot of fields where Brahmins do well..its those fields that need to be focussed on.
Most of us are not vaidikas but laukikas! So one has to make money for survival!
 
Most of us are not vaidikas but laukikas! So one has to make money for survival!
But for living well, one need not be a multi millionare.
A Brahmin by Guna is more into intellectual pursues and less materialistic.

So why not get into the education bussiness like setting up universities?

I myself obtained my degree from India in University owned by a Brahmin.

Why not think on those lines?

Most other bussinesses need a money minded , ruthless mindset with under ground dealings and at times betrayal.

If we read about Warner Brothers production company, one brother finally betrayed his other brother and the eldest brother was so heart broken that he died of a heart attack because their father had made them promise that all brothers need to be united.

Do you think anyone who has Sattva Guna is capable of betrayal?

Also most Brahmins are doing well in the IT sector.
Set up universities offering IT degrees.

There is a university in Malaysia offering IT engineering etc owned by a Brahmin from India.


Just to add being an employee isnt bad..the pay is high enough to maintain a good life and also as humans even laukikas we need to keep in mind that Moksha is our final destination.

Too much money or too little money affects our spiritual pursue eventually.
 
But for living well, one need not be a multi millionare.
A Brahmin by Guna is more into intellectual pursues and less materialistic.

So why not get into the education bussiness like setting up universities?

I myself obtained my degree from India in University owned by a Brahmin.

Why not think on those lines?

Most other bussinesses need a money minded , ruthless mindset with under ground dealings and at times betrayal.

If we read about Warner Brothers production company, one brother finally betrayed his other brother and the eldest brother was so heart broken that he died of a heart attack because their father had made them promise that all brothers need to be united.

Do you think anyone who has Sattva Guna is capable of betrayal?

Also most Brahmins are doing well in the IT sector.
Set up universities offering IT degrees.

There is a university in Malaysia offering IT engineering etc owned by a Brahmin from India.


Just to add being an employee isnt bad..the pay is high enough to maintain a good life and also as humans even laukikas we need to keep in mind that Moksha is our final destination.

Too much money or too little money affects our spiritual pursue eventually.
Well said Renuka! Both too much money or too little money takes you away from spirituality unless you are a Viswamitra because pursuit of money for money's sake incites all the wrong qualities and ensures your spiritual death
 
Well said Renuka! Both too much money or too little money takes you away from spirituality unless you are a Viswamitra because pursuit of money for money's sake incites all the wrong qualities and ensures your spiritual death.
Earning money shouldnt be the only motive in life.
Actually we all spend most of our lives earning money.

You are right..pursuing money for money's sake isnt save as it leads to over attachment to money.

When we over attached to anything, be it money or power or an addiction to substances/ alcohol we actually create similar frequency vasanas in us and it adds to our karmic burdens..our next life too would be a materialistic one.
Makes it more difficult to attain Moksha.

The bussinesses one does needs to be one which is legal, no wrong doings and honest and will generate well being for the world.
There is no harm being rich provided one isnt attached to material..then work itself becomes worship and doesnt add to our Karmic burden.
 
Guna does not play anything considering the fact that all Iyers are not vegetarians.

If you to want survive and achieve, you will have to swim with the current. The community becomes so philosophical as it doesn't have the will to compete. The present day Iyers are not ready to take risks.

Day by day the Namasangirthanamwalas are on the increase. It slowly becomes a family business like purohits and archakas. Sometime back two Iyers performed Homams in Mylapore Saibaba Temple.

Since Iyers are more in numbers in Tamil Nadu, compared to Iyengars and Madhwas, the community should be more responsible, serious and committed in protecting the interests. It is a myth that Iyers are not indulging in corruption and illegal activities.

Though Iyer community has produced so many popular personalities from all fields earlier, including three Noble Laureates, the present condition is not healthy. Self centeredness becomes paramount, and this can be seen in Carnatic Music. When the carnatic musician, the excentric T M Krishna, made remarks about the late Palghat Mani Iyer, no one has come for the rescue of his family. Interestingly majority of the accompanying artists of excentric TMK are from Iyer community. This is a perfect example how Iyers are ready to sacrifice community interest for personal gains.

You cannot find this in other Brahmin sects.
 
Mr Chandru, You have achieved a self-goal through your statements. Thodur Madabusi Krishna is not an Iyer. He is a Telugu maverick and fan of Kanimozhi. Can you tell why Iyers are struggling in business. Another Iyer who committed suicide was the erstwhile MD of Igarashi Motors -P Mukund. One common thread is that all the 3 Iyers who committed suicide had taken huge loan for their business and they could not payback. Iyers would be best in IAS & IRS but unfortunately the community is not feeling any charm in pursuing that profession!
 
Mr Chandru, You have achieved a self-goal through your statements. Thodur Madabusi Krishna is not an Iyer. He is a Telugu maverick and fan of Kanimozhi. Can you tell why Iyers are struggling in business. Another Iyer who committed suicide was the erstwhile MD of Igarashi Motors -P Mukund. One common thread is that all the 3 Iyers who committed suicide had taken huge loan for their business and they could not payback. Iyers would be best in IAS & IRS but unfortunately the community is not feeling any charm in pursuing that profession!
Madabusi denotes orthodox Vadakalai Iyengar and the excentric TMK is from TTK family. The name Mukund is generally prevalent among Iyengars and I haven't come across this name in Iyer community.

If a community is restricted to only specific areas, and when the competition is intense, the community will vanish. What is the harm in taking risks in the form of huge loans. The suicide was due to no support from the community, let alone proper guidance.

Are the Marwaris, Jains, Banias, Agarwals, Nadars, Gounders restricted their activities only in specific areas? Due to political empowerment, Nadars and Gounders reach the present level and the others due to co-operation and self help. As per one BJP leader, who contested the recently concluded Lok Sabha election from Madurai, Gounders reach the present level due to internal venture capital within the community.

I think this is not a problem if Iyers think constructively.
 
I think more than disintegration it is dissolution. The barriers between groups at a social level are lot less now though i think the gene factor is still there. That will also become diluted with more inter marriages happening. People are becoming more robotic going in the opposite direction of all that are right. It is not just the Iyers every group is more decadent now.
 
The survival of any community depends on vital elements like cooperation, coordination, unity, integrity and interest in the community. It looks these are totally
lacking in Iyer community.

In the early 70s, after the passing away of SS Vasan, his son did not match the competition from AVM and Vijaya Vauhini, Gemini Studio vanished. Due to technical
controversy, Standard Motors became a thing of the past. When one of the promoter's daughter from Simpson Group married an Iyengar, it is not known whether
it belongs to Iyer or Iyengar Group.

The fate of Easun Group, WS Industries, Rane is not known.

Already two popular persons committed suicide due to lack of financial support - G Venkateswaran, a Chartered Accountant and film producer and V B Chandrasekhar, an Engineer turned Cricketer.

The latest episode is taking over of India Cements by a North Indian Group. It seems the promoter's daughter married a Chettiar from AVM Group and no news
about his son.

Are Iyers meant only for Namasangirthanams, singing Carnatic Music and begging in temples?

This is really a tragedy.

In the varNa system all knowledge providers to society are brahmins. Every scientist, researcher, technologist, teacher are all brahmins only.

In the jAti system, those who do veda raksanam are brahmana jAti. The sole aim and purpose of brahmana jAti was veda raksanam. Veda raksanam is reading, reciting all vedic scriptures by memory, transmission to next generation and along with it provide mental work to society for society's progress. It's like they do 90% veda raksanam, but since society takes care of them provide knowledge services to society for 10% of their time.

Even in the pre-sangam era, ancient tamil kings had fascination for vedic culture, its knowledge and customs and hence brought in these brahmins from all over, settling them locally in different regions of the land.

Chozhiyars (brought in by the very ancient cholas as they were the ones in touch with North due to their kingdom proximity) came in probably in the pre-sangam era and interbred with local population and were called the 'anthanars' or 'vediyars'. Their influence spread across all 3 tamil kingdoms of chera, chola, pandiyas.

But with kalabhra's invasion, for several centuries, they lost the support of kings and were marginalized or annihilated. Buddhism and jainism were the favorite dharma for the kings.

With the bhakti movement of Nayanmars, Alwars, vedic culture got back its feet in the south and Sankara took it to North also. Vedic culture started influencing the kings again.

When the cholas came back winning over kalabhras, they brought in the brhatcharanams, the 'large-footed' brahmins from the North and settled in their kingdom, to help them with warfare knowledge of the North, primarily. Warfare knowledge involved weapons, army formations, astronomy, astrology, reading natural signs etc.

Much later on a set of brahmins from the North were settled for music during the Pandya times and they were called vaathimas.

Much later on during the later cholas period (who were essentially the chalukyas as rajendra chola adopted paternal grandson) , telugu brahmins from tungabhadra were settled all over chola empire to guide on agricultural practices. They were the vadamas.

Similarly all Southern kings, be it chalukyas, hoysalas, rashtrakutas, all of them settled brahmins from North in their kingdoms (like the chola, chera, pandyas).

Wherever these southern brahmins went they had some service to society, but their core aim and purpose in life was veda raksanam.

When the Islamic kings came in, the first to reach out to them for patronage were the Southern Brahmins Madhvacharya went to Jalaludin khilji and proclaimed allah and vishnu are same (as in the Madhva vijayam).

Because southern brahmins primary aim and purpose is veda raksanam, they simply allied with whoever was ruling, got their support and propagated vedic scriptures to their descendants.

It was easy to do veda raksanam with big aristocracies than to do with small kings and hence they favored such big aristocracies.

Veda raksanam is a non-productive work for the society and needed society's support. Brahmins used temples for survival. They minimized their living needs by unjaviruthi. Thus they minimized their support for society and provide more energy for veda raksanam, which was a huge task by itself.

But as Indian kingdoms splintered, a lot of southern brahmins moved away from veda raksanam for life sustenance. With big aristocracies, if 20% of brahmins spent on other services to society and 80% were in veda raksanam, this inverted with splintered kingdoms. Now 20% were only in veda raksanam.

When Dutch, Portugese or the British came, the first ones to ally with them were Southern Brahmins. They had no qualms in absorbing or digesting some elements of their beliefs and practices, as long as they were able to dedicate some part of their community energy for veda raksanam. But by this time, the percentage of southern brahmins doing veda raksanam had significantly declined to say 10%.

The primary reason for southern brahmins not to cross the ocean was that they will fail to do veda raksanam in foreign lands, But since foreign forces, thoughts and knowledge took over our society by storm, it's like they crossed the ocean, even while residing in their own land. With industrial, technological revolution and more integration of the world, the percentage of southern brahmins involved in veda raksanam has fallen down to low single digits now.

Ofcourse significant number of southern brahmins are still knowledge providers or follow the varNa. Except very few, all the southern brahmins do not belong the brahmana jAti as we don't do veda raksanam.

Even most vaathiyaars (many of them have not attended full-fledged veda patasalas) today don't do veda raksanam, as their primary aim to survive by their laugiga prayogams. Even there due to paucity of time, vaathiyaars and knowledge, many samskaras have reduced to an abridge version, a namesake formality.

So the brahmin community has been in cross-roads for last few centuries. Will veda raksanam eventually move out from human memory transmission to machine recorders..? Will even the laugiga prayogams come down and down and eventually lose it all completely..?

Southern brahmins (and all brahmins in general) had a flair for knowledge because they were reading, reciting and researching (mental work). This is the genetic, social environmental advantage they passed on. With all communities reading, reciting, researching, this differentiation no longer exists. So there's no long term genetic differentiation as proclaimed.

So what does this southern brahmin jAti has with it, to differentiate itself or stand separately, say in 50 or 100 years from now..?

Nothing.

In fact it's time now that the brahmin jAti expands by bringing in all kinds of people into their fold for veda raksanam, by bringing in people of all castes into veda patasalas at an early age, by devising great financial support for veda raksanam.

Without veda raksanam, there is no brahmin jAti.
 
In the varNa system all knowledge providers to society are brahmins. Every scientist, researcher, technologist, teacher are all brahmins only.

In the jAti system, those who do veda raksanam are brahmana jAti. The sole aim and purpose of brahmana jAti was veda raksanam. Veda raksanam is reading, reciting all vedic scriptures by memory, transmission to next generation and along with it provide mental work to society for society's progress. It's like they do 90% veda raksanam, but since society takes care of them provide knowledge services to society for 10% of their time.

Even in the pre-sangam era, ancient tamil kings had fascination for vedic culture, its knowledge and customs and hence brought in these brahmins from all over, settling them locally in different regions of the land.

Chozhiyars (brought in by the very ancient cholas as they were the ones in touch with North due to their kingdom proximity) came in probably in the pre-sangam era and interbred with local population and were called the 'anthanars' or 'vediyars'. Their influence spread across all 3 tamil kingdoms of chera, chola, pandiyas.

But with kalabhra's invasion, for several centuries, they lost the support of kings and were marginalized or annihilated. Buddhism and jainism were the favorite dharma for the kings.

With the bhakti movement of Nayanmars, Alwars, vedic culture got back its feet in the south and Sankara took it to North also. Vedic culture started influencing the kings again.

When the cholas came back winning over kalabhras, they brought in the brhatcharanams, the 'large-footed' brahmins from the North and settled in their kingdom, to help them with warfare knowledge of the North, primarily. Warfare knowledge involved weapons, army formations, astronomy, astrology, reading natural signs etc.

Much later on a set of brahmins from the North were settled for music during the Pandya times and they were called vaathimas.

Much later on during the later cholas period (who were essentially the chalukyas as rajendra chola adopted paternal grandson) , telugu brahmins from tungabhadra were settled all over chola empire to guide on agricultural practices. They were the vadamas.

Similarly all Southern kings, be it chalukyas, hoysalas, rashtrakutas, all of them settled brahmins from North in their kingdoms (like the chola, chera, pandyas).

Wherever these southern brahmins went they had some service to society, but their core aim and purpose in life was veda raksanam.

When the Islamic kings came in, the first to reach out to them for patronage were the Southern Brahmins Madhvacharya went to Jalaludin khilji and proclaimed allah and vishnu are same (as in the Madhva vijayam).

Because southern brahmins primary aim and purpose is veda raksanam, they simply allied with whoever was ruling, got their support and propagated vedic scriptures to their descendants.

It was easy to do veda raksanam with big aristocracies than to do with small kings and hence they favored such big aristocracies.

Veda raksanam is a non-productive work for the society and needed society's support. Brahmins used temples for survival. They minimized their living needs by unjaviruthi. Thus they minimized their support for society and provide more energy for veda raksanam, which was a huge task by itself.

But as Indian kingdoms splintered, a lot of southern brahmins moved away from veda raksanam for life sustenance. With big aristocracies, if 20% of brahmins spent on other services to society and 80% were in veda raksanam, this inverted with splintered kingdoms. Now 20% were only in veda raksanam.

When Dutch, Portugese or the British came, the first ones to ally with them were Southern Brahmins. They had no qualms in absorbing or digesting some elements of their beliefs and practices, as long as they were able to dedicate some part of their community energy for veda raksanam. But by this time, the percentage of southern brahmins doing veda raksanam had significantly declined to say 10%.

The primary reason for southern brahmins not to cross the ocean was that they will fail to do veda raksanam in foreign lands, But since foreign forces, thoughts and knowledge took over our society by storm, it's like they crossed the ocean, even while residing in their own land. With industrial, technological revolution and more integration of the world, the percentage of southern brahmins involved in veda raksanam has fallen down to low single digits now.

Ofcourse significant number of southern brahmins are still knowledge providers or follow the varNa. Except very few, all the southern brahmins do not belong the brahmana jAti as we don't do veda raksanam.

Even most vaathiyaars (many of them have not attended full-fledged veda patasalas) today don't do veda raksanam, as their primary aim to survive by their laugiga prayogams. Even there due to paucity of time, vaathiyaars and knowledge, many samskaras have reduced to an abridge version, a namesake formality.

So the brahmin community has been in cross-roads for last few centuries. Will veda raksanam eventually move out from human memory transmission to machine recorders..? Will even the laugiga prayogams come down and down and eventually lose it all completely..?

Southern brahmins (and all brahmins in general) had a flair for knowledge because they were reading, reciting and researching (mental work). This is the genetic, social environmental advantage they passed on. With all communities reading, reciting, researching, this differentiation no longer exists. So there's no long term genetic differentiation as proclaimed.

So what does this southern brahmin jAti has with it, to differentiate itself or stand separately, say in 50 or 100 years from now..?

Nothing.

In fact it's time now that the brahmin jAti expands by bringing in all kinds of people into their fold for veda raksanam, by bringing in people of all castes into veda patasalas at an early age, by devising great financial support for veda raksanam.

Without veda raksanam, there is no brahmin jAti.
I have a question.
You wrote that the Veda Rakshanam Southern Brahmins looked for patronage from the invadors be it the western invadors or the muslim invadors.

But the fact is these invadors defeated the local kings and were from a different dharma and their methodology to divide and rule were not always aligned with Sanathana Dharma.

Shouldnt Veda Rakshanam gets it support through Dharmic means?
If the patronage comes from an Adharmic ruler who defeated a Hindu kings..how will Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha be put in practice.

If the money comes from an Adharmic person, Dharma is lost right away..so how can Veda Rakshanam be done in mode of purity anymore?

Last but not least, why isnt there loyalty at all?
It seems selfish to just switch camps and get the favor of a new Adharmic ruler who defeated the former Dharmic king.

Seems weird.
 


In the article above, it states this..Madhavacharya said to Khiilji after crossing a river with his disciples..

"The Supreme Lord, who protects you, me and everyone brought me here along with my followers. For you, He is Allah; for me, He is Sri Hari, you and me may address Him by different names but only one will answer us both.”

And it was Khiliji who invited Madhavacharya to the court.
So it wasnt Madhavarcharya who reached out to Khilji.

So how can it be said that Madhavacharya wanted patronage?
Its not as if Madhavacharya said anything new.
Its a known fact that Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti.
 
I have a question.
You wrote that the Veda Rakshanam Southern Brahmins looked for patronage from the invadors be it the western invadors or the muslim invadors.

But the fact is these invadors defeated the local kings and were from a different dharma and their methodology to divide and rule were not always aligned with Sanathana Dharma.

Shouldnt Veda Rakshanam gets it support through Dharmic means?
If the patronage comes from an Adharmic ruler who defeated a Hindu kings..how will Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha be put in practice.

If the money comes from an Adharmic person, Dharma is lost right away..so how can Veda Rakshanam be done in mode of purity anymore?

Last but not least, why isnt there loyalty at all?
It seems selfish to just switch camps and get the favor of a new Adharmic ruler who defeated the former Dharmic king.

Seems weird.

The loyalty of brahmana jAti is to veda raksanam only. In those days jAti and Kula only existed. In fact every kingdow treated others as enemies and friends depending on the circumstances and it was not based on 'mata' or religion.

Rani velu nachiyar, Hyder Ali fought together against East India company. Thirumalai Nayak and Bijapur Sultans allied to fight against Sriranga Nayak. Shivaji's army had 60000 muslim soldiers and he fought with many Hindu kings down south. Same all across India, all over the times.

dharmic and adharmic cannot be related to mata or one's individual perspective.

dharma is that is fixed, eternal, the laws of the Universe that cannot be changed. It gets applied to laws of society as laws by which society functions does not change much or changes very slowly.

While the dharma of Universe is fixed for the life of Universe, in most human being lives, the dharma of society remains fixed. What we do aligned with laws of Universe or society is dharmic. What we do not aligned with them is adharmic.

When we are adharmic in the Universe's sense, we are not sustainable. We perish eventually. When we are adharmic in the Society's sense, we face the repercussions much faster.

It's possible that society itself is adharmic in the Universe's sense and it punishes people dharmic in the Universe's sense. In that case society will perish.

That's why the concept of sva-dharma comes in. A sva-dharma not afflicted by the gunas that we acquire from external world is the superior sva-dharma
 
The loyalty of brahmana jAti is to veda raksanam only. In those days jAti and Kula only existed. In fact every kingdow treated others as enemies and friends depending on the circumstances and it was not based on 'mata' or religion.

Rani velu nachiyar, Hyder Ali fought together against East India company. Thirumalai Nayak and Bijapur Sultans allied to fight against Sriranga Nayak. Shivaji's army had 60000 muslim soldiers and he fought with many Hindu kings down south. Same all across India, all over the times.

dharmic and adharmic cannot be related to mata or one's individual perspective.

dharma is that is fixed, eternal, the laws of the Universe that cannot be changed. It gets applied to laws of society as laws by which society functions does not change much or changes very slowly.

While the dharma of Universe is fixed for the life of Universe, in most human being lives, the dharma of society remains fixed. What we do aligned with laws of Universe or society is dharmic. What we do not aligned with them is adharmic.

When we are adharmic in the Universe's sense, we are not sustainable. We perish eventually. When we are adharmic in the Society's sense, we face the repercussions much faster.

It's possible that society itself is adharmic in the Universe's sense and it punishes people dharmic in the Universe's sense. In that case society will perish.

That's why the concept of sva-dharma comes in. A sva-dharma not afflicted by the gunas that we acquire from external world is the superior sva-dharma
Thanks for reply.
Makes a lot of sense but somehow svadharma too should get its sustenance from dharmic ways.

If the tree is diseased, the fruits one eats from it will also be diseased.

At the getting patronage from invadors for veda rakshanam seems to show a lack of surrender to God.
Shouldnt one be confident that no matter what God will come to the rescue for rakshanam of one who protects dharma( veda rakshanam).

Also spinning new philosophies ( if it actually happened) to suit the likes of the invador seems to be an act of deception to general public because that is altering the truth.

Anyway, whatever will be will be.
 
According to mahaperiyava, the purpose of veda raksanam is not religion, but to protect the knowledge of human race. According to him, We dont' burn down the library because we don't understand all the books. We protect and handover for other's use.

Brahmana jAti took upon this veda raksanam not for themselves, not for any matas, but for the knowledge and protection of human race as a whole, irrespective of people understand it or not.

In those who realize vasudha-iva-kutumbakam, tat-tvam-asi etc, definition of invaders is a bit tricky. In the past there has been invasions all the time between the kings.

Alauddin khilji sees his god and other's gods. In sumadhva vijaya, madhva tells khiljis soldiers who were about to kill him and his disciples crossing the ganges on foot, that he had come to see their king. Crossing 100,000 soldiers they reach the town in which the King stays and meets him. King is very surprised that Madhva could reach upto him unharmed by his soldiers.

That's when Madhva explains this perspective the gods are same. The purpose of surrender is realization. Unlike the king-subjects or shepherd-sheet paradigm, vedas talk about Him being omnipresent, who has to be realized. Khilji offers half his kingdom and Madhva refuses as he owns the Universe itself.

Veda raksanam is for this understanding and realization and move away from your god, my god paradigms. But then there's always going to be people who hold these paradigms. Veda raksanam is the way by which he hold these principles, slowly seep in these principles of realization.

Like the person who eats the fruits rarely realizes the shape and structure of roots, people who talk about various philosophies that arose from vedas rarely know or understand it. But if roots are gone, the tree and fruits are all gone.
 
In the varNa system all knowledge providers to society are brahmins. Every scientist, researcher, technologist, teacher are all brahmins only.

In the jAti system, those who do veda raksanam are brahmana jAti. The sole aim and purpose of brahmana jAti was veda raksanam. Veda raksanam is reading, reciting all vedic scriptures by memory, transmission to next generation and along with it provide mental work to society for society's progress. It's like they do 90% veda raksanam, but since society takes care of them provide knowledge services to society for 10% of their time.

Even in the pre-sangam era, ancient tamil kings had fascination for vedic culture, its knowledge and customs and hence brought in these brahmins from all over, settling them locally in different regions of the land.

Chozhiyars (brought in by the very ancient cholas as they were the ones in touch with North due to their kingdom proximity) came in probably in the pre-sangam era and interbred with local population and were called the 'anthanars' or 'vediyars'. Their influence spread across all 3 tamil kingdoms of chera, chola, pandiyas.

But with kalabhra's invasion, for several centuries, they lost the support of kings and were marginalized or annihilated. Buddhism and jainism were the favorite dharma for the kings.

With the bhakti movement of Nayanmars, Alwars, vedic culture got back its feet in the south and Sankara took it to North also. Vedic culture started influencing the kings again.

When the cholas came back winning over kalabhras, they brought in the brhatcharanams, the 'large-footed' brahmins from the North and settled in their kingdom, to help them with warfare knowledge of the North, primarily. Warfare knowledge involved weapons, army formations, astronomy, astrology, reading natural signs etc.

Much later on a set of brahmins from the North were settled for music during the Pandya times and they were called vaathimas.

Much later on during the later cholas period (who were essentially the chalukyas as rajendra chola adopted paternal grandson) , telugu brahmins from tungabhadra were settled all over chola empire to guide on agricultural practices. They were the vadamas.

Similarly all Southern kings, be it chalukyas, hoysalas, rashtrakutas, all of them settled brahmins from North in their kingdoms (like the chola, chera, pandyas).

Wherever these southern brahmins went they had some service to society, but their core aim and purpose in life was veda raksanam.

When the Islamic kings came in, the first to reach out to them for patronage were the Southern Brahmins Madhvacharya went to Jalaludin khilji and proclaimed allah and vishnu are same (as in the Madhva vijayam).

Because southern brahmins primary aim and purpose is veda raksanam, they simply allied with whoever was ruling, got their support and propagated vedic scriptures to their descendants.

It was easy to do veda raksanam with big aristocracies than to do with small kings and hence they favored such big aristocracies.

Veda raksanam is a non-productive work for the society and needed society's support. Brahmins used temples for survival. They minimized their living needs by unjaviruthi. Thus they minimized their support for society and provide more energy for veda raksanam, which was a huge task by itself.

But as Indian kingdoms splintered, a lot of southern brahmins moved away from veda raksanam for life sustenance. With big aristocracies, if 20% of brahmins spent on other services to society and 80% were in veda raksanam, this inverted with splintered kingdoms. Now 20% were only in veda raksanam.

When Dutch, Portugese or the British came, the first ones to ally with them were Southern Brahmins. They had no qualms in absorbing or digesting some elements of their beliefs and practices, as long as they were able to dedicate some part of their community energy for veda raksanam. But by this time, the percentage of southern brahmins doing veda raksanam had significantly declined to say 10%.

The primary reason for southern brahmins not to cross the ocean was that they will fail to do veda raksanam in foreign lands, But since foreign forces, thoughts and knowledge took over our society by storm, it's like they crossed the ocean, even while residing in their own land. With industrial, technological revolution and more integration of the world, the percentage of southern brahmins involved in veda raksanam has fallen down to low single digits now.

Ofcourse significant number of southern brahmins are still knowledge providers or follow the varNa. Except very few, all the southern brahmins do not belong the brahmana jAti as we don't do veda raksanam.

Even most vaathiyaars (many of them have not attended full-fledged veda patasalas) today don't do veda raksanam, as their primary aim to survive by their laugiga prayogams. Even there due to paucity of time, vaathiyaars and knowledge, many samskaras have reduced to an abridge version, a namesake formality.

So the brahmin community has been in cross-roads for last few centuries. Will veda raksanam eventually move out from human memory transmission to machine recorders..? Will even the laugiga prayogams come down and down and eventually lose it all completely..?

Southern brahmins (and all brahmins in general) had a flair for knowledge because they were reading, reciting and researching (mental work). This is the genetic, social environmental advantage they passed on. With all communities reading, reciting, researching, this differentiation no longer exists. So there's no long term genetic differentiation as proclaimed.

So what does this southern brahmin jAti has with it, to differentiate itself or stand separately, say in 50 or 100 years from now..?

Nothing.

In fact it's time now that the brahmin jAti expands by bringing in all kinds of people into their fold for veda raksanam, by bringing in people of all castes into veda patasalas at an early age, by devising great financial support for veda raksanam.

Without veda raksanam, there is no brahmin jAti.
The history of Chozhias, Vadamas, Brahacharnams and Vathimas is debatable. Who entered Tamil Nadu first is still being discussed. Other sub sect Ashtasahasram is left out, who many believe, is progressive in thinking. It is not known the subsects of Industrialists from Iyer community. If they are wide spread, we can presume the community lacks business acumen as a whole. If it is restricted to a particular sect, there is a total change in the attitude.

In any case, the community is not united in all respects. The role of mutt leaders is also not encouraging.
 
The history of Chozhias, Vadamas, Brahacharnams and Vathimas is debatable. Who entered Tamil Nadu first is still being discussed. Other sub sect Ashtasahasram is left out, who many believe, is progressive in thinking. It is not known the subsects of Industrialists from Iyer community. If they are wide spread, we can presume the community lacks business acumen as a whole. If it is restricted to a particular sect, there is a total change in the attitude.

In any case, the community is not united in all respects. The role of mutt leaders is also not encouraging.
That's a good catch. My idea was not to document all tambrahm groups. But yes ashtasahasram are the 8000 brahmins settled by various cholas in a village called ennayiram where huge vedic patasalas were established with huge land grants to them. Most of them were trivedis, chaturvedis and somayajis from the North.

But very soon pallavas gained upper hand and jainism came back, many brahmins were beheaded and their support system got cut-off. Many brahmins converted to jainism for survival. When cholas gained upper hand again, jains were beheaded and the jain families came back to vaidika dharma. But many of them have lost their roots and resorted to temple priesthood for survival. Hence they remained marginal and even today other tambrahm groups consider them inferior

From their ancestors of chaturvedis and somayajis they fell into mostly local temple priesthood for survival as they lost their vedic roots due to the royal rivalries.
 
Today everyone is pretty much a Vaishya Varna. The caste groupings are just harmful imaginations. Almost all weddings I attended or know about in the last decade or more are across castes and religion. Every profession has become a way to make money. Even sannysis and Matams are after money, power and influence. All are Vaishyas. No Iyer or any other caste. There are only people that are aligned with dharma and large numbers that are adharmic or deluded or confused.

We need to stick to common sense dharma like the golden rule and ahimsa etc. That is the best way to protect dharma
 
Today everyone is pretty much a Vaishya Varna. The caste groupings are just harmful imaginations. Almost all weddings I attended or know about in the last decade or more are across castes and religion. Every profession has become a way to make money. Even sannysis and Matams are after money, power and influence. All are Vaishyas. No Iyer or any other caste. There are only people that are aligned with dharma and large numbers that are adharmic or deluded or confused.

We need to stick to common sense dharma like the golden rule and ahimsa etc. That is the best way to protect dharma
hi
now a days kings are gone.....sub sect of iyers are diminishing......just try to follow as human beings

dharma...survival is the fittest....lets do our kama and dharma as much as possible...every body aim

for money.....including matham and temples.......no exception......making money proper way ...

i like sanskrit verse....

ashtaadsa puraneshu
vyasasya vachana dwayam....paropakara punyaya papaya para peedanam...

अष्टादसा पुरणेषु
व्यासस्य वाचन द्वायम्....परोपकार पुण्याय पपाय पर पीडन......
 
The general saying is that cowards, non-operative, less interested, living without any purpose are philosophical. Iyers can be brought under this category.
 
I was born in a Tamil Brahmin Iyer family. I never lived in TN. We followed the Iyer culture while growing up. I stopped following the Iyer traditions when I left India and came to the USA. So I am not advising the Iyer family living in Tamil Nadu.
I understand the anguish of Vganeji and CHANDRU1849ji.
Every Kingdom comes to an end. Every group has an end date. I think lamenting the death of a group is fruitless.
 

Latest ads

Back
Top