Committed to a Brahminical lifestyle: Need advice please!!!!

[renuka]

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No I’m not mad at what he’s saying at all. It’s the truth and it doesn’t matter if it was my ancestors who did it or someone else. I condemn it fully. For example Ravana was a brahmin but no brahmin supports him just for being one of his castemen. Heck, even vibhEEshanA did not support him. And to be honest, ya I don’t really know much of the politics of India or TN in particular. My parents themselves moved at a young age (I’m generation 2) so I think they themselves are pretty in the dark about this stuff. And I would never “hate the Bs” - all communities are important but to put it bluntly, I have nothing but respect for a group of people who have been devoted to the Lord, spread knowledge and lives a life of humility and sacrifice. My AcharyA has given me so much love and knowledge and they treat me like a son. How can I hate family? In the US, we stand United as Hindus. But Seriously, thank you guys for bringing this to my attention. I always heard “politics were different in TN” but cm154234’s responses have actually caused me to read more up on what happened. I might not be able to make much of a positive impact in my life to reverse this hatred (Again, there isn’t really hatred in Andhra…the feud is usually between kammas and reddys or non hindus vs hindus or “SC/STs” vs “forward” castes) but I’ll try to do my best to spread awareness. There is no Bharath without the BrAhmins. I can only imagine the levels of frustration it has to have reached for cm124534 to red pill me with the truth so boldly. As we say in our prayers daily, “gO brAhmanyEbho subhamasthu nityam, lOkAh samasthA sukhinO bhavanthU.” The day BharathavarshA reclaims it’s rich tradition of respecting gOmAtha and the brAhmins, that is the day it will reclaim its rightful stature as the “heart of the world”. In whatever way I can, I will always stand up for sanAthana dharmA, proper brAhmins who have been facing this horrible treatment and also the poor/impoverished “backward communities”. I actually got into a discussion with my grandfather after I read these posts, and he said that anti-brAhmin sentiment never took ahold in AndhrA and there was actually a movement against PeriyAr by rAma bhakthAs of which a lot of my direct ancestors/cousins were apart of. (Maybe they would not have have they been tamilian, I’m not sure). Apparently people used to vote not because of caste back then but because of idealogy. They in fact went to Chennai with the Jeeyar swAmi to protest against periyAr’s infamous disrespectful display of sri rAma chandrA prabhu. These (including the one that I was born into) “elite, landowning classes” such as kammas, balijAs, reddys, rAjus have also heavily discriminated against SC/STs. My grandfather told me himself that it was something he despised and this week, I have been reading literal historical records of people of “lower classes” being killed or lynched. Apparently there is a tamil movie (asuran) that also captures this history. It boils my blood. these communities felt “so discriminated” against,
so they started targetin LITERALLY the most peaceful community (ahimsA and sAttvic tendencies are most prevalent in BrAhmins) in India, why the F were they being violent against those that were “lower down” on this totem pole? ALL discrimination, against “untouchable” communities and against brAhmins are wrong and I refuse to continue that legacy. As for what I “label myself”, these were all good points given. @cm154234 has forced me to kinda introspect (like is anyone ACTUALLY stopping me or killing me for living the way I do? What was the need for me to ask for permission on this forum?). Going off of what Renuka ji and you have stated, there probably is a reason God has made me be born the way I am. For now, I will continue to upkeep my practices but stop worrying about the tag. If God ever graces me with enough influence to undo the mistakes done by the caste men in the past, I will make sure to do whatever I can. I think my questions have been answered and I will rest this discussion for now. dhanyOsmi.

Dear Govindh,

Your reply is so full of logic and love for humanity.
Honestly you really dont need to attach any Varna lifestyle to your life.
Its so nice to see such refined words and thoughts that speak from a pure heart.

You my boy are a rare soul..one who is really beyond any guna and varna.
Anyone who wants to " shoot bullets" at you should think twice cos with such purity of heart in you the bullets would only richochet( returned to sender)

Stay blessed.

 

[renuka]

If one listens to the teachings of the Najavo Native Americans, one would see how the talk about what they faced where 85% of their community was wiped out by invadors who came to USA.

Yet they surprisingly dont play the victim card.
They accept what happened in history.
They have deep philosophy which states be in the PRESENT and life is MOVEMENT.

Now they are reviving their culture and philosophy and they state that they want to share their culture with the whole world and its all inclusive.

Their culture is very similar to Yoga philosophy of seeking balance and also alignment with the Holy People( their concept of God).

Its really great to see a race that lost their land, faced a holocaust yet do not spew hatred and have picked up where they left off and still sharing with the world with love.

This is what spirituality is all about.
History need NOT be forgotten, learn from the past, stand up for self respect and rights and Be in the present.
Spewing venom is optional.

 

[renuka]

. Thanks. I have a lot more I need to spread. All very very hard things. My hands are itching to write about this "anaithu sadhi archagar" drama of DMK, but apparently, politics is to be discussed only in the separate 'politics' forum, as per rules of the site. Can anybody pls post the link to the 'politics' section in the forums?

Can you imagine EVK Sampath's grandson telling his son that "brahmin is not by birth. u just need to follow 6 aachara anushtanams and then follow ur acharya"? But it doesn't shock me. Because I know that Brahmin hate originates from those groups who say "we are 1 1/2 Brahmins", etc, and who are the most sanskritized and topmost of tamil groups. And I know that they specifically target Brahmin women for marriage, and seek to marry the offspring of that kind of marriage back into Brahmin families, all the while spewing Brahmin hate. And this groups "claiming to be brahmin" does happen in Delhi/Bombay and USA, etc.

And anyways our innocent balija naidu garu has already decided what he's gonna do. His grandfather didn't exactly pass on everything to him. His grandfather did Brahmin hate back at home, went to the US, and told his grandson that "bhakti is all you need". What a champ!... I am told there are many of those "chief culprit castes" just like this in the US. They don't know what their own people have been doing, and are 'innocent' like this.

Our man just needs some achu pichu ambi mamas from here to tell him what he wants to hear. That would be called 'religious sanction'. And people do fall for it, like ur saying u did.

Do you know what its called? woke. or, midhappu. a compulsion or urge to very actively demonstrate how so open minded and progressive we are. but this is a trick. They want us to express our open mindedness and make us say what they want to hear . We shouldn't fall for it. I don't like gurumurthy much but at least he had the balls to once say "Ennai pirpokkuvadhi endru etrukollungal nu solren".

Just like his or anybody else's caste is an accident, our births into the so called Brahmin caste is an accident too. We are not caste experts. It is pointless to ask anybody because nobody had a say in this. We are all equally helpless. I have gone deeper into this, thanks to Dravidian Movement, but I do not want to discuss those things with tamils because they have already disqualified themselves by carrying out and enabling one hundred years of Brahmin hate. Adhayum pannittu, indha pakkam vandhu innocenta kelvi ketta epdi. That's not how things work. You should have asked and clarified before you did the hate.

But then, lots of mudaliar/vellala/chettiar have this nappasai, inspite of doing the hate. This doesn't shock me. I have seen much worse...

Dear cm124,

You wrote this:
"His grandfather didn't exactly pass on everything to him. His grandfather did Brahmin hate back at home, went to the US, and told his grandson that "bhakti is all you need".



I do understand that you are speaking your mind being affected by the Anti Brahmin scenario faced by you.

But to bluntly accuse someone's grandfather without evidence seems not the most conducive thought.

Its fine if you are sharing your thoughts but its better not to get into a personal attack.

 

[cm124534]

Sir I request you to please stop insulting my grandfather. I am sorry I ever posted on this forum. I didn’t realize I would be this hated on account of my birth. For your information, I have no desire to marry a “brahmin girl”. Keep them to yourselves. Seriously. There are plenty of brahmin descendant girls and boys here in university who have been extremely promiscuous, drink and eat beef. Plenty of them who have offered me marijuana and alcohol and stated that even “the Gods drank and smoked.” Trust me. That does not attract me. But I would never say that an entire caste is bad or insult their grandparents. Sir, you must be much older than me. Please understand- I personally did no hate. You are hating me for something someone has done IN A DIFFERENT STATE years ago. The only requirements are having faith in Krishna and being vegetarian- not “brahmin girl”, etc. There are plenty of caucasians, North Indians, ISCKON/Arya samaj people who fit that role. If you have an issue with me posting please kick me out but I request of you respectfully to please stop insulting my grandparents. The more I try to be civil you keep bringing my grandparents into this. I am literally agreeing with you yet It’s almost like you want me to become a villain to confirm your bias. I don’t know who the heck EVK Sampath is. I am not tamilian. I am of Telugu origin. I’m unsure of why the moderator is letting him post this stuff or why nobody is calling anything out here. He keeps personally attacking my grandfather. Perhaps everything is not as black and white as I thought. I will stop responding but please- I request you to stop insulting my grandfather without actually knowing who he is, what he stands for and the values he has instilled in us. We are people too, with real emotions and respect for our parents and grandparents just like you do. I did not realize that I would be getting this much hate. Perhaps I should have understood the politics of TN more. The more I try to maintain a Vedic/Hindu-unity mindset, the more i am being seen as a villain. Let it be. I have no personal hate against anyone. I leave the rest to God. If there is anyway to delete this thread I request the moderator to do so because This has gone too far and he keeps linking me to DMK and abusing my grandfather. I don’t even know who DMK is. It was just several months ago I actually understood who Periyar was. And I am 100% against him. I am an American Hindu. I am loyal to my country and my religion. Not a caste, so please stop addressing me saracastically as a “balija naidu Garu”. Keep your hate to yourself. I apologize for posting on here. I will not make the mistake again. Let it be for Tamil Brahmins only. If there is anyway to delete this thread or the messages insulting or blaming my grandfather for things he was not even a part of, I request the moderator to do so. Enough is enough.

he he he. Va thambi va. A lot of tamils tell me all the time "hate rebounds", and i would be like "ok. but isnt that my line"?

If ur not connected to tamils, what are you doing on 'tamil' brahmins forum. u have absolutely no idea of the kind of hate brahmins have had to face for one hundred years, and the castes that built that hate and have kept it alive till today - Chettiar, Mudaliar, Pillai, are the most sanskritized, and ritualized hindus, and Periyar's and Dravidian Movement's Brahmin hate was from them to. Periyar was largely a conduit for their hate. I guess a few of them are here in this site too.

And sorry about hurting you too much. You don't know the kind of hate Brahmins have to face from tamil people. I have been drinking that toxicity every day for years now, and trying to find answers and build responses. You freaked out for just one small prick. Tamil people, instigated by chettiar-mudaliar-pillai, have been cutting us with millions of poisoned spears for one hundred years +.This is a unique phenomenon in the whole world, not just India. India too has no idea about Brahmin hate in TN.

And I dont believe this site is for, or should be for Brahmins alone. Im probably as new as you, or even to this site. Just felt like spreading what I know. I know my stuff is too harsh but it needs to be done. I dont mind if im banned by the moderator. My resolve is much deeper.

And...most important of all...about your 'innocent' questions about caste and brahmin lifestyle...Pls do not think that I am trying to protect the 'high caste' fence from being attacked by other guys. Im not protecting the 'high'ness of the caste because I did not choose it too and I did not make it high or low. Birth into X caste is an accident for both/all of us. For all practical purposes, 'Brahmin' today is a caste and class just like any other. There is no such concept of conversion of castes in Indian society, generally speaking. So, why ask this question at all? That tag doesn't mean anything about a person, like being intelligent, clean or 'pure' or whatever. Those times are gone. So, what you really want is just that tag and it is only because it is supposed to be upper caste. Your 'lifestyle' is a route to that. There is no provision for this in Indian society and that too, I didn't decide it. Nobody did. This is just how things are. That too a balija naidu asking it made me go totally psycho. You are like this because u have no idea about tamilnadu. And as much as innocent and good hearted and pure souled you seem, my comments about your father/grandfathers/castes stay. They know things that they didn't deliberately pass on to you, and my guess is that there are many such Chettiar/Mudaliar/Pillai families in the US/UK/ etc like this too. The ones who are totally oblivious and 'innocent' to what their castes did. You need to wake up to your actions.

This is not how it works. You have to face the consequences of your actions. You have to see what your folks did, and tamils (+balija naidus) have to answer for it.

 

[cm124534]

Dear cm124,

You wrote this:
"His grandfather didn't exactly pass on everything to him. His grandfather did Brahmin hate back at home, went to the US, and told his grandson that "bhakti is all you need".



I do understand that you are speaking your mind being affected by the Anti Brahmin scenario faced by you.

But to bluntly accuse someone's grandfather without evidence seems not the most conducive thought.

Its fine if you are sharing your thoughts but its better not to get into a personal attack.

ellarum idha mattum sollunga da tamilargala. neenga enna vena solluveenga, pannuveenga, aana ungala thirumba pesuradhu 'ganniyamana murai la, thani manidha thaakkudhal illama irukanum la'?

nayakkan apdi. nayakkanoda peran vandhu 'innocenta' "excuse me, whats the procedure to change varna/caste/room" nu keppan...adhayum pakurom. evalavo pathachu...

 

[renuka]

ellarum idha mattum sollunga da tamilargala. neenga enna vena solluveenga, pannuveenga, aana ungala thirumba pesuradhu 'ganniyamana murai la, thani manidha thaakkudhal illama irukanum la'?

nayakkan apdi. nayakkanoda peran vandhu 'innocenta' "excuse me, whats the procedure to change varna/caste/room" nu keppan...adhayum pakurom. evalavo pathachu...

Kindly either write in English or in Tamil font.
Its hard to read all these romanized Tamil.

You can read my posts from the beginning that I told Govindh that one does NOT need to attach a varna tag to any religious practice or lifestyle and I told him to surrender to Lord Krishna.

So I think its best you avoid abusing others in personal attacks and get a hold of your emotions.

 

[Govindh]

I was on a tamil forum because frankly there was no telugu/other south indian brahmin forum to ask the question. I feel extremely connected to south indian traditions (being a south indian myself) so I figured this was the best forum to ask my questions.

Either way, you are welcome to believe what you want about my grandfather. He was too poor to worry about brahmins and non-brahmins and at one point had to sell idlis on the road as a child to support his mother and his siblings. He worked hard and always helped those around him. My great-grandfather had many lands that he freely wrote away to many people to help them in times of need, including our family's priest. Their descendants (who are brAhmins) still are extremely cordial with us for the help that was done then. They were too busy making a survival, suffering/loving/contributing with friends from all communities to "hate" against brahmins. My dad's best friend through his college days was a telugu iyengAr and I was literally named after him because they were so inseparable. Their family is in the US now too and I am mentoring his son with college essays and whatnot at the moment, just as I would for my own brother. My great-grandmother was a big rAma bhakthA and it is not possible to be Hindu and at the same time hate brahmins or the vEdAs. Even to this day, my grandmother has this idea that "we should never make brahmins mad or hurt them because it is a paapam". Lol I infact used to argue with her and say "brahminhood is not only birth" but I think I have gotten a reality check now. (in fact, maybe these were things that subconsciously made me want some "tag or label" as you and @renuka ji had said sir @cm124534). I am telling you these things because there is literally nothing they have to "hide" from me. I am sure there are many such families as well. Once again, I will repeat that the telugu balija/reddy/kamma/raju communities have never harbored these anti-brahmin sentiments (I do not know about TN's politics so I cannot say the same for the tamil branches of these communities).

It really is sad that TN is so divided; it is the Tamil/Southern culture (which includes the vision and contributions of Tamil brahmins/AchAryAs and saints from all the other communities as well) that has kept the Vedic culture intact. Whenever we would go to India to perform karnatic concerts, my parents and teachers (who are Telugu dancers/singers) would always would rightly point out how Hyderabad became so modern and has lost so much culture but the classical arts are still so safeguarded by Tamilians in Chennai. If India is the heart of the world, the south (and specifically TN) is the heart of Vedantic thought and culture while the rest of India seems to be slipping into a post-modern abyss. I have no qualms about admitting that as a Telugu kid. But we seriously were not too aware of the current socio-political climate there. I genuinely hope things get better. I agree that I do not know about Tamil Nadu, and I did not know that these communities in TN were responsible for causing you agony. Trust me, I am sorry to hear that. But you have to understand that my direct family does not know these things either. That is like me hating tamil brahmins if telugu brahmins did something wrong to my ancestors back in the day. Or if French black people today hated French white people because their white American cousins enslaved/discriminated American blacks for 200 years. They are two separate groups. Likewise, there is a difference between tamil balijas/reddys/kammas and telugu balijas/reddys/kammas. I do not even know who mudaliars/chettiars are, and if those even communities exist in the Telugu society so I shall refrain speaking about them.You may think I am making this stuff up, but because history is my passion, I actually took all that you said seriously and have been doing my research to explain to my own family (we have weekly family discussions where we discuss interesting things we learned during the week). My dad and uncle did not even know who PeriyAr really was until I explained to him all the stuff I was researching, and they definitely did not know that he was a balijA.

I may be wrong though as I am still inexperienced and have never really been labelled with a caste here in the US. However, I do sense the pain in your writing. As a fellow human being, I really hope the situation gets better in TN for you all. This may be too much to ask, but if at all rAma was able to forgive vibheeshana for being the brother of rAvana and treated him on account of his own actions and words (and not his brother's), then I hope there is some compassion in your heart to do the same for me. KrishnA was able to be friends with pAndavAs who were the cousin-brothers of the kouravAs. NarsimhA was able to protect prahlAda (the direct son of hiranyakasipA), and I hope there is room to treat me and my family with respect instead of viewing us as "Periyar's community" or "EVK Sampath's grandson (still don't know who that dude is by the way) (note: we are not even related to these evil forces like vibheeshanA and the pandavAs were, just happened to be born in a community and am being grouped with all these people that I do not support). The pouranikA stories repeat and reveal truths that can be applied even today and perhaps this is an aspect that could be used for this discussion. Just food for thought.

"Sorry for hurting you too much" --> Thank you sir @cm124534 for acknowledging this. You must be much elder to me, so no need to say sorry to me. You are welcome to insult me, but I just felt bad dragging my family into this mess, that is all. I do have a lot to learn. You seem to have been through a lot and you deserve to have your voice heard if you have suffered as a result of these politics. Even if I was not personally involved in such horrible treatment of a community, if you feel that this is how I have to pay then so be it. Perhaps God is ridding me of some bad karma in some life. All that I ask is that I hope we can be cordial and that I am viewed as my own person. Just know that if anybody were to harass you or anyone on this forum on account of your birth/community in front of me (not just you but any of my Hindu/Indian brothers) I would stand up for you. I do not give a damn if the bully is a "balija naidu" or Periyar or the British or some other rayudu lol. There is no room for bullying in sanathana dharmA-whether it be against brAhmins, dalits, vaishyAs, vishwakarmAs or yadavAs, etc. We all have the Lord within us and I will not be a bystander for brahmin hate (or against any community). I can only imagine the amount of suffering you must have gone through in the past hundred years and I pray that God saves you and your family from having to face that in the future.

Thank you for educating me. When you said that "You have to face the consequences of your actions. You have to see what your folks did, and tamils (+balija naidus) have to answer for it", I am not sure how I can personally answer for it but I will do my best to shut this anti-brahmin/Periyar nonsense wherever/whenever I see it. (Just as I am sure you would be shutting down the mistreatment of dalits/other communities that was historically done by certain sections of brAhmins in the past ). @Rudra_Maha- anna, I see that you agree with @cm Sir's message. Not sure what to make of that. I am a little taken back I admit, but hope you were able to see my POV as well. Nonetheless, thank you for your opinion and time as well.

@renuka ji As always, thank you for your kind words and wisdom. Much appreciated

Think it is best to close the discussion now.

 

[renuka]

This thread should be closed.