Committed to a Brahminical lifestyle: Need advice please!!!!

[Govindh]

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@Govindh Those are high words. I gave my suggestions, because i can relate to what you're going through. There is a point in life, where we need to stand back and think for ourselves, over who we are and what our identity is. If we can figure this out, you get a clarity wherein you can blossom to your full potential. Unfortunately, many of us, start with something, slog years in it and later realize we're not meant for it. Be it career or spirituality its the same. TIME/kaalam(in tamil) is the real god. If i had removed some doubt of yours, i'm happy. Who knows what lurks around the corner, you may turn into an Acharya yourself, or one of your descendants might become big contributors to Dharma. I, you or anyone of us may not be around that time to witness it, but its because we've sown the seed today, someones gonna reap its benefit tmrw.

Take for example: those monumental temples, you find in India, do you think, the people of those times would have lived to see their hardwork materialize into the structure we see today. Nope, many have died mid way. Some 2-3 generations of people have worked on it. Of course, some were made to work forcefully, but there are also others who worked voluntarily, otherwise you would'nt be seeing this beauty. Now what sort of an attitude is that to keep working continously with passion without caring about the results, it still is amusing that such people existed, peak of Krishnas Karma Yoga principle. Hence, this spiritualtiy and rituals are an investment, not just for the present but for the future, future of your coming generations.

Go onto become a great doctor, even become the Surgeon general there, but never forget ur Dharma. That is all that matters. We are just tiny specks in this mighty universe. Dont break your head over such trivial stuff. There are many issues where we can go and break heads, not this, never give up or give in, stay balanced like Lord Ram. Have fun. Cheers!!!

thank you so much annA. you have provided a lot of comfort and strength to my overthinking.

I guess I will always be opposed by certain groups of orthodoxy but I truly understand where they are coming from. I hope God leads me to realizing my potential in a way that it benefits us and this creation in whichever small or large way that I can.
Is there a whatsapp number or other mode of messaging that I may connect to you with for further questions/discussions?

dhanyOsmI.

 

[renuka]

This was very deep Renuka ji.

Sometimes I fall into the illusion that I am making the noise myself, but I must remember to empty myself so that He make reverberate what He needs to through me.

I never thought about it this way however: "Personally I still feel we have to honour our parents and be in their gotra as a karmic debt we owe our bodies to them(Note: I am not a Tamil Brahmin,so my opinions would differ a lot)".
--> If it is a non-rishi gOtrA, then is it not just random? Of course, in Telugu communities we keep a familial last name so I never felt like I was abandoning my lineage. And once I have been "adopted" into a rishi's lineage, am I not indebted to that rishi for the rest of my life instead of the gOtrA I was born into (for which could very well have been a made up name)? Could you elaborate on this situation?

Dear Govindh,
I dont attach importance to too much procedure or gotra etc.
By now the world should be aware that all these does not really make that much difference.

At present Covid 19 is knocking at all doors..

Samprapte Covid Kale
Bhajo Govindam.

Its the era of Covid..just focus on God and so service to mankind.

 

[a-TB]

Namaskaram to all the esteemed Bramhanas,

I am going anonymous with the name of my favorite Lord Govinda as I write this. Forgive me if it is a bit long.
I am an NRI and have been brought up in a western country my whole life. My parents are extremely religious/spiritual and they raised me in the same way (daily ArAdhanA, weekend geetha classes, frequent listening to pravachanas followed by dinner discussions on bramha sUtrAs were a norm growing up). Since I never grew up in India, I un/fortunately (I'm not sure which) never grew up realizing the intricacies of caste, caste politics, and was simply "a proud Hindu" throughout my schooling. My parents were always incredible encouraging and also started me in Sanskrit classes. I requested my parents to start learning the vEdAs and we underwent upanayam and I follow sandhya vandana daily along with studying in one of top notch programs at my country by God's grace. Now, here comes the plot twist.

When I asked of my family's caste/heritage as a young adult, I was informed we were something called balijas. Evidently, a class that were political leaders turned merchants in the vijjayanagara empire. By birth, my gothram was jyanakala and after undergoing upanayanam I had adopted the officiating priest's gotra and pravara. (He obliged after much discussion/testing and had agreed to officiate the ceremony for me as he thought I was fit). I used to think that varnA was based solely on gunA-karmAs but looking through an unbiased view of the sAstrAs, it is becoming clear that it has always been birth-based (even at the time of the tri-mathAchAryas, as per their bhAsyAs). However, this brahminical way of life has literally become second nature. Doing agnihOtrA/samidAdhAna, sandhyA, parisEchanam before meals, strictly eating only sattvik food, daily ArAdhanA to perumAL is something that gives me order and purpose. I am attached to the duties itself. At the same time, I want to be on the side of dharmA and righteousness. I did a lot of research on my last name (which is a VERY uncommon last name, mind you) and there is some heritage with a family of telugu niYogI brAhmins who went into business or vAnijyA (possibly intermixed and corrupted into balijA?). Their gOtra was listed and it seems they were rig vedin brAhmins as well. I also did a lot of extensive research on balijA familial roots and found that the banajiga was a core guild that was started by 500 brahmin swAmi merchants in Ayyavole, Karnataka over a 1000 years ago. Over the years, several people from all four castes came in and strictly speaking because of the failure of vedic samskaras and varna sAnkaryam, the guild turned into a caste that is placed in the sUdra varnA today. I am not here to contend the status of that caste, but strictly speaking, even if I did have the brahminical roots in my ancestors, I am by all means a sUdra for lack of samskAras for seven generations or I am at least of mixed ancestry. I was not aware of maintaining varnA by birth, etc before undergoing upanayanA but having followed the brahminical lifestyle/rituals and reading sanskrit for years now, I am being exposed to the truth that caste has traditionally been birth based.

My question to the elders of this forum: What do I do now? Am I to strip off my poonol and pour lead in my ears for reciting mantrAs? Please note that I have no ulterior motive for this. I am not in love with any brahmin girl nor is there any privilege to being a brahmin in America. In fact, it is probably MUCH more "enjoyable" to live life in a western country without such discipline but this lifestyle is simply a part of who I am now. I personally know of several "brahmin" friends who drink, smoke weed, and eat beef to give you perspective that caste does not really matter here. Also, the gOtrA that was given to me and my father during the upanayana ceremony also matched the one of my (possible) ancestors so there is a possibility that I am actually linked to that rshi. Either way, I have only been using that gOtrA for everything. However, for all purposes, it is a gOtrA that has come from a guru to me so it is not descended male to male descendants. Is this even legal? Am I doing some paapam or committing apachAram by performing someone else's svadharmA? Or am I one of the rAkshasA sUdrAs predicted in bhAgavatha purAna that "dress like a brAhmin" in kali-yugA? I cannot bear to be doing anything against Lord Kannan but at the same time, I promise I have no malintentions and I have nothing but great respect for all the esteemed sages, AchAryas and proper brahmins that have safeguarded our rich culture. My identity and being is literally tied to this lifestyle now and I can't imagine my children not growing up without doing daily sandhyavandanam, etc. Neither do I have relatives in India really, most of us are based in America and me and my entire family have been following this way of life (sandhya vandana, samidadhana, parisechana) for a while now. Please point me in the right direction. I would also like to add that I cannot be told to suddenly start eating meat or eating indiscriminately at restaraunts (we maintain utmost saucham at home and do not share meals with others unless it is prasAdam or they are bhAgavthAs). I am studying medicine now and hope to maintain this lifestyle throughout my life and career by God's grace.

Dear Mr Govindh,

Mr Brahmanyan Sir's post addresses very precisely what needs to be said,

I had this vague sense that I want to share, pardon for even raising it. You are so well versed and so eloquent that it is hard to believe you have a real doubt.

You said Varna is by Dharma and Guna. That comes from Gita as I read somewhere. Why question any further?

Do your profession treating everyone with love in your profession. Follow the Varna lifestyle of Brahmanas, Ignore any rules anyone may say about birth, caste etc. Gotra is all meaningless in today's world. Any Gotra is fine for the purposes of the rituals.

Why even raise the idea of pouring lead etc. That is silly (yes I know it has to do with Manu's work - but it could be a metaphor and anyway not applicable in today;s non-varna society). My doubt about the post came when such points are raised by someone who seem to be well versed in so many topics.

 

[cm124534]

thank you so much annA. you have provided a lot of comfort and strength to my overthinking.

I guess I will always be opposed by certain groups of orthodoxy but I truly understand where they are coming from. I hope God leads me to realizing my potential in a way that it benefits us and this creation in whichever small or large way that I can.
Is there a whatsapp number or other mode of messaging that I may connect to you with for further questions/discussions?

dhanyOsmI.

Yes of course thambi u want to sound innocent, but you're very cunning. Periyar was from ur caste, i think.

See...if u like the brahmin way of life, you can live that way, nobody can stop you. Strictly speaking, one who knows brahman is Brahmana. So, u can watch some video like this

and realise brahman and be a real brahmana. Lao Tzu became enlightened watching a dry leaf fall from a tree. You can live like ur wish, realise brahman itself, nobody can stop you.

But where is the need to 'become a brahmin'? Being born to brahmin parents doesn't say anything about you expect that ur born to brahmin parents. (or father. Don't ask me about Nairs and matrilineality in tamil culture. Thats a separate topic.)

It doesn't speak about your abilities or purity or impurity or anything. It's just a tag.

But why do you want that? What do you want?

You want to sound very innocent, but you're not. What you want is not that value system. What you want is that tag.

Assuming the gotra of ur guru, anointing urself with those symbols because ur grandfather and some nutcase brahmin (there are many in this site) guy told you "if u feel it's right go ahead" are all outright fraud and forgery.

You know what you're doing is fraud. Thanthai Periyar was from your caste. But you're appealing to some clueless pacifist woke uncles who you know will give you the response that you want.

But then, nobody can stop you. Especially if you're out of India or in Delhi bombay etc. Go ahead.

 

[Govindh]

Yes of course thambi u want to sound innocent, but you're very cunning. Periyar was from ur caste, i think.

See...if u like the brahmin way of life, you can live that way, nobody can stop you. Strictly speaking, one who knows brahman is Brahmana. So, u can watch some video like this

and realise brahman and be a real brahmana. Lao Tzu became enlightened watching a dry leaf fall from a tree. You can live like ur wish, realise brahman itself, nobody can stop you.

But where is the need to 'become a brahmin'? Being born to brahmin parents doesn't say anything about you expect that ur born to brahmin parents. (or father. Don't ask me about Nairs and matrilineality in tamil culture. Thats a separate topic.)

It doesn't speak about your abilities or purity or impurity or anything. It's just a tag.

But why do you want that? What do you want?

You want to sound very innocent, but you're not. What you want is not that value system. What you want is that tag.

Assuming the gotra of ur guru, anointing urself with those symbols because ur grandfather and some nutcase brahmin (there are many in this site) guy told you "if u feel it's right go ahead" are all outright fraud and forgery.

You know what you're doing is fraud. Thanthai Periyar was from your caste. But you're appealing to some clueless pacifist woke uncles who you know will give you the response that you want.

But then, nobody can stop you. Especially if you're out of India or in Delhi bombay etc. Go ahead.

Sir,

Namaskaram. With all due respect, I am a little confused about what I am being cunning about. I grew up in the US and I really have no idea about much of caste politics, so I apologize if I said something to offend you or anybody. As I said before, all I have been exposed to is the concept of chAturvarnyA but because recently I have been trying to understand certain portions of the brahma-sUtrAs such as apashUdrAdhikaranA, it has led me to a state of confusion and despair because technically since it has been so long since the upanayanA has been performed, that most castes in India are all sudrAs (Or vrAtyAs). If we stick blindly to certain rules, then I was confused that all of us deserve to have molten lead poured down our ears. I have been doing more research on the subject since I first posted this question, and a) there were indeed lots of interpolations and b) these had to potentially do with protecting knowledge from getting in the wrong hands of those who may follow left-handed tAntric rituals. I do not want to give up the lifestyle that I am accustomed to, but I also do not want to be going against the precincts of AchAryAs. However, with the present-day situation being so messed up, it is really hard for me as inexperienced young adult such as myself to dictate what is right and what is not. I came to this forum with hopes that some of the respected members could offer proper guidance and their opinion on the matter. I really do not care for any "tag", none of that helps us in the US. I have been reading up on PeriyAr and I apologize if I have offended you, but I feel no connection to balijAs simply on the basis of a medieval construct.The vIrA bananju (balajigA) guild was started over a 1000 years ago by 500 swAmIs of ayyavOle. Members of all varnAs (including brAhmin-shrestis, or chettis) merged into the guild. In fact, recent research suggests that members of the gOtrA janakakulA or raghukulA may be descendents of janakA or IkshvAku dynasty and the gotra of jyanakula may have been from those priestly members who took up arms to lead in times of war ("gyana"+kulA). Therefore, I do respect PeriyAr's intentions and realize that there may have been issues at the time, but as a believer of sanAthana dharmam (which extends much much beyond the caste of balijAs), I cannot support or feel connected to him on all fronts. It is high time we view people as people first, beyond their caste. I am sorry if that offends you, but I assure you my intention was not to commit fraud or forgery. There is no need for me to get the "response I want", I just wanted advice on a potentially dhArmic conflict I was facing internally.

dhanyOsmi

 

[Govindh]

Yes of course thambi u want to sound innocent, but you're very cunning. Periyar was from ur caste, i think.

See...if u like the brahmin way of life, you can live that way, nobody can stop you. Strictly speaking, one who knows brahman is Brahmana. So, u can watch some video like this

and realise brahman and be a real brahmana. Lao Tzu became enlightened watching a dry leaf fall from a tree. You can live like ur wish, realise brahman itself, nobody can stop you.

But where is the need to 'become a brahmin'? Being born to brahmin parents doesn't say anything about you expect that ur born to brahmin parents. (or father. Don't ask me about Nairs and matrilineality in tamil culture. Thats a separate topic.)

It doesn't speak about your abilities or purity or impurity or anything. It's just a tag.

But why do you want that? What do you want?

You want to sound very innocent, but you're not. What you want is not that value system. What you want is that tag.

Assuming the gotra of ur guru, anointing urself with those symbols because ur grandfather and some nutcase brahmin (there are many in this site) guy told you "if u feel it's right go ahead" are all outright fraud and forgery.

You know what you're doing is fraud. Thanthai Periyar was from your caste. But you're appealing to some clueless pacifist woke uncles who you know will give you the response that you want.

But then, nobody can stop you. Especially if you're out of India or in Delhi bombay etc. Go ahead.

Secondly, watching a video "and realizing BrahmaN" does not make one a brAhmin. There are six specified duties and a lifestyle that must be maintained. Enlightenment is not the property of one group of people. My question was related to being able to continue the lifestyle I was raised in and continuing the legacy of my family and gurU and if that was ok to do while keeping with DharmA, or the natural order that the Divine has set in stone for us. That is all; no need for me to get a "Tag". Thank you.

 

[cm124534]

Sir,

Namaskaram. With all d...

.The vIrA bananju (balajigA) guild was started over a 1000 years ago by 500 swAmIs of ayyavOle. Members of all varnAs (including brAhmin-shrestis, or chettis) merged into the guild. In fact, recent research suggests that members of the gOtrA janakakulA or raghukulA may be descendents of janakA or IkshvAku dynasty and the gotra of jyanakula may have been from those priestly members who took up arms to lead in times of war ("gyana"+kulA). Therefore, I do respect PeriyAr's intentions and realize that there may have been issues at the time, but as a believer of sanAthana dharmam (which extends much much beyond the caste of balijAs), I cannot support or feel connected to him on all fronts. It is high time we view people as people first, beyond their caste.

If you don't worry about any 'tags', then why elaborate on supposed brahmin roots of balija chettis?

(1) One hundred years of the most toxic non-violent hate known to man, and (2) the 'Dravidian' sociopolitical worldview, and (3) the mega cult called 'Periyar'...yes. 'Periyar' was not a person. Not just that person. 'Periyar' is a cult...

(1), (2), (3) were mainly built by 3 castes

A. Nattukottai Nagarathar
B. Saiva Vellalar
C. Thuluva Vellala Mudaliar (+sengundhars)

Periyar's caste, Balija Naidus, were the descendants of the rulers of Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka. Madurai, Tanjore, and Kandi Nayakas. But Balija Nayakudu/Chettis were not like the absolute monarchs. The above mentioned castes were the 'elites'. The socio-cultural-political-religious elites. Brahmin hate was from the above group. Periyar's Brahmin hate was from Nagarathar-Vellalar. Balija Naidus had brahmin hate too, but it was not so big, and not so visceral as to be institutionalized, and be part of the flesh and bones of the Chettiar-Mudaliar-Pillai (Dravidian) movement. But Periyar was an important tool. And here is periyar's grandson, asking about how to become a brahmin, adopting guru's gotra...what next? How to get a brahmin woman, then marry the children back to brahmins...thats what chettiar/mudaliar/pillai do.

I see on this forum all the time. somebody lamenting about how hard it is to get brides, and thta brahmins must view ppl like saiva pillai who "share the lifestyle". I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Your castemen were the facade behind which chettiar, mudaliar, pillai have been spewing unimaginable amounts of toxic hate against brahmins in Tamil Nadu for one hundred years. Not just during Dravidian Movement...this alliance between the elites of tamil lands, and the nayakas is several hundred years old. It was ariyanatha mudaliar who made viswanatha nayaka as the nayaka of tamilnadu, and vellalas and nayakas had strong ties even in colombo. The Dravidian Movement was what the Mudaliars, Chettiars and Balija Naidus constructed for the British, in order to thwart the freedom struggle efforts of the Congress, in which Brahmins abounded...and to cement the British rule in south india. Brahmin hate was already festering in the vellala quarters, so they gladly complied. And here you are!

Not just you, there are lots of Chettiar/Mudaliars in the USA, UK, Germany, Malaysia, South Africa, etc who are totally 'innocent'. Very very innocently being deep devoted followers of sanathana tharma. They have no clue what their fathers, uncles, grandfathers did, and have been doing, till today. Im strongly inclined to think its by design. They want to keep you in the dark. They want to protect this 'innocence'.

 

[cm124534]

Secondly, watching a video "and realizing BrahmaN" does not make one a brAhmin. There are six specified duties and a lifestyle that must be maintained. Enlightenment is not the property of one group of people. My question was related to being able to continue the lifestyle I was raised in and continuing the legacy of my family and gurU and if that was ok to do while keeping with DharmA, or the natural order that the Divine has set in stone for us. That is all; no need for me to get a "Tag". Thank you.

I always thought 'one who knows brahman is a brahmana'. Let's forget all about shastras, dharma blah blah blah. All scriptures are written by man. The "lifestyle I was raised in" was done by your family elders who wanted that tag of upper caste, in spite of spewing venom of hate on that caste for a century, back home.

They are very conveniently putting on that very same garb when they leave their native lands, and this is nothing new. I have heard this many time. Tamils claiming to be brahmins when they go to USA or Delhi etc. This nappasai is what leads to the hate. I don't want to bring in the politics into this thread, but there is an awful lot of it.

//continuing the legacy of my family and gurU and if that was ok to do while keeping with DharmA, or the natural order that the Divine has set in stone for us//

Your family and guru, and a lot of nutcase uncles in this forum will tell you "Don't worry about what others will say and think. Bhakti is all that matters. If you feel its right, go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop you."

This is the answer you want. 'sanction of dharma' is a cheap thing. It can be had for anything. Its all a matter of searching in the right place, and deliberately closing your eyes to all other things.

Lets forget scripture, dharma, divine, etc. All those are concepts created by man.

Lets keep it simple. We are all born into castes. We didn't choose our caste. And the system in vogue is....caste is permanent. If you are born into one, that is your caste for life. You could be a brahmana who has realised brahman, but you would be a paraiyar or balija nayakudu or thondaimandala thuluva vellala agamudaya mudaliar, whichever caste you were born into.

This is the agreed system in India. An agreement among everyone in society. You want to change this. Fine. Do you need sanction of dharma, or the sanction of everyone in society? The agreement between man and man is most sacred. That is why i said you are looking for somebody who will give you the answer that you need. And amongst tamil brahmin geniuses, that is not too hard. take that naamam potta r&d ungil for ex. these are wokes and liberals, like charu haasan. they just want to appear cool by being iconoclastic. they are not aware of the damage they do. those are the ones who can give you 'the answer that you are looking for'. and lo, 'sanction of dharma', done!

But is that the case as per the unspoken, unwritten agreement?

Why do you want to anoint yourself with the symbols of some other caste? because YOU WANT THE TAG! And you are looking for chaaru haasans who can give you 'the answer that you need'.

What is inside that urge to anoint yourself with symbols/lifestyle?

You know that they are the markings of upper caste. you are aware of that. So, you want to wear that garb. but u know ur in violation of the rules in indian society, leave alone dharma, scripture, etc.

if u didn't carry notions that brahmin is upper caste then that tag wouldn't prick you. wanting to follow that lifestyle automatically means that you deem all others to be lower. you are aware of this. what are those 6 lifestyles? lets see how many brahmins follow them today . U are eyeing for those 6, but you messed up basic morality/ethics/rules. modhalukkey mosam aaiduchey.

You are asking this question because you know what you are doing is fraud and forgery, but u have deep nappasai, like nagarathar-vellalar. you are searching for somebody who will tell you it is ok, and allay this guilt. you will get plenty.

 

[Govindh]

I always thought 'one who knows brahman is a brahmana'. Let's forget all about shastras, dharma blah blah blah. All scriptures are written by man. The "lifestyle I was raised in" was done by your family elders who wanted that tag of upper caste, in spite of spewing venom of hate on that caste for a century, back home.

They are very conveniently putting on that very same garb when they leave their native lands, and this is nothing new. I have heard this many time. Tamils claiming to be brahmins when they go to USA or Delhi etc. This nappasai is what leads to the hate. I don't want to bring in the politics into this thread, but there is an awful lot of it.

//continuing the legacy of my family and gurU and if that was ok to do while keeping with DharmA, or the natural order that the Divine has set in stone for us//

Your family and guru, and a lot of nutcase uncles in this forum will tell you "Don't worry about what others will say and think. Bhakti is all that matters. If you feel its right, go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop you."

This is the answer you want. 'sanction of dharma' is a cheap thing. It can be had for anything. Its all a matter of searching in the right place, and deliberately closing your eyes to all other things.

Lets forget scripture, dharma, divine, etc. All those are concepts created by man.

Lets keep it simple. We are all born into castes. We didn't choose our caste. And the system in vogue is....caste is permanent. If you are born into one, that is your caste for life. You could be a brahmana who has realised brahman, but you would be a paraiyar or balija nayakudu or thondaimandala thuluva vellala agamudaya mudaliar, whichever caste you were born into.

This is the agreed system in India. An agreement among everyone in society. You want to change this. Fine. Do you need sanction of dharma, or the sanction of everyone in society? The agreement between man and man is most sacred. That is why i said you are looking for somebody who will give you the answer that you need. And amongst tamil brahmin geniuses, that is not too hard. take that naamam potta r&d ungil for ex. these are wokes and liberals, like charu haasan. they just want to appear cool by being iconoclastic. they are not aware of the damage they do. those are the ones who can give you 'the answer that you are looking for'. and lo, 'sanction of dharma', done!

But is that the case as per the unspoken, unwritten agreement?

Why do you want to anoint yourself with the symbols of some other caste? because YOU WANT THE TAG! And you are looking for chaaru haasans who can give you 'the answer that you need'.

What is inside that urge to anoint yourself with symbols/lifestyle?

You know that they are the markings of upper caste. you are aware of that. So, you want to wear that garb. but u know ur in violation of the rules in indian society, leave alone dharma, scripture, etc.

if u didn't carry notions that brahmin is upper caste then that tag wouldn't prick you. wanting to follow that lifestyle automatically means that you deem all others to be lower. you are aware of this. what are those 6 lifestyles? lets see how many brahmins follow them today . U are eyeing for those 6, but you messed up basic morality/ethics/rules. modhalukkey mosam aaiduchey.

You are asking this question because you know what you are doing is fraud and forgery, but u have deep nappasai, like nagarathar-vellalar. you are searching for somebody who will tell you it is ok, and allay this guilt. you will get plenty.

Sir, I do not even understand what the nagarathars or some of the other groups you have described are. I assure you my family has no “brahmin-hatred” and I have never really heard of those attitudes in Andhra. My dads best friends growing up were from all castes (and they included brAhmins too). However, I thank you for your opinion and I’ll try to think about what you said with an open mind. And regarding “upper caste”, isn’t the concept of varnA that all varnAs are different but not less or more? We need all sorts of people. That’s what my AchArya said in the POV of Vaishnava viewpoint. I definitely do have guilt like you said (and that only developed recently after reading some of the translations of the Bramha-sUtrAs). I assure you there is no need for a tag, but admittedly I wholeheartedly believe that this lifestyle is the best and most superior for MY peace of mind, and that is why I want to stay true to it and continue that. For me, yes. Meat eating and getting drunk and what not is most definitely lower. That’s just the way I was raised and I cannot go back. You said that according to Indian culture in Vogue, we are permanently born into castes. Well if our ancestors thought that way, why would there even be these many castes? Even in the 1700s there were only 9 jAthis across the breadth of BhArathavarshA. In the 1800s there are records of 72 bOyA families who adopted the brAhminic lifestyle and “became brAhmins”. Now there are 100s-1000s of jAthis. Social constructs are always evolving, but it is hard to decipher which are sanctioned by dharmA and which are not was my issue. Regarding the 6 duties- exactly my point, those who do not follow them are not brAhmins but vrAtyAs or at best descendants of brAhmins (brAhmana-bandhUs). I do not know what “nappisai” means. However, I will give what you said some thought. Maybe I do need to be humbled as to what my intentions are and I will definitely do some introspection. Also, I am not Periyar’s grandson lol. I despise a lot of the stands he took and the stupidity that the cult (as you rightly stated) caused in society. That’s like saying if there was one bad brAhmin (by birth) who did bad things (and yes there are plenty of good and bad people from all walks of life), I should get mad at you for being his “grandson.” I only brought up the roots of the balijA caste as another example that there were members of all varnAs in the guild and how humans consolidated yet another group. If anything, it was destroying the idea that balijAs are some “elite class”. My loyalty is to sanathana dharmA and the vedic traditions. If someone has hurt you and you are mad at me for that, I will still apologize and hope that we may be cordial. I do thank you for your time in giving me your opinion though. It is clear that you disagree with this and I did ask for all opinions so I do respect disagreements as well. dhanyOsmi

 

[renuka]

Dear Govindh,
As much as the post of "cm123534" is harsh and uncalled for but there is one thing i have to agree with what he says.

He used the word " TAG"
Ok, I agree that none of us should seek any tag but I am not saying this with harsh undertones ...but rather I mean to say one can just lose all man made identity when we surrender to God.

So there is no need to seek any type of lifestyle..just be yourself.

Seek yourself and hear what your heart resonates with.
Varna tags are only important for anyone who is still very much attached to his genetics or guna or janma.

Move beyond the need to mould ourselves according to rules that make no meaning to the Atma.

My advice is a lovely phrase from the Quran.
Kun Fayakun..which means BE AND IT IS!
So do that..just BE and everything that is meant to be will bloom within you in the eternal NOW in the sound of balance.

 

[cm124534]

Im saying its the handiwork of your forefathers of last 3-4 generations.

Your caste was the nozzle through with Nattukottai Nagarathars and Vellalars poured out their napalm of hate on Brahmins, and they have been doing so for a century. 'Periyar' is not a person. Not just the person. It the name of the cult, the cardboard image, created by Chettiar, Mudaliar, Pillai. Even when that person was alive, he was continuously fed by a bunch of saiva vellalas all the time. Periyar was just the outlet through which the Brahmin hate of vellalas and chettiars was spurted out, while they remained as very devoted hindus. And today, they are burying their mountains of crime and hate by calling Periyar and Dravidian Movement as "anti-hindu".

Aravindhan Neelakandan, who co-authored the book 'Breaking India' with Rajiv Malhotra, is a saiva vellala. Brahmin hate was from his very group. The brahmin hate of periyar was from nagarathar and vellalar, but he has been writing and telling all over that some mysteriously powerful 'church' caused Dravidian Movt and its brahmin hate...that some 'church' and missionaries are behind it, in order to destroy hinduism and Indian culture, while he knows very well that his ilk, saiva vellalas, are the creators of Brahmin hate in Tamil Nadu. Periyar's magazine, kudi arasu, was opened by nyaaniyar adigal, who was the head of one of the saivite mutts. In fact, im guess the 18 saiva vellala aadhenams, and the nattukottai nagarathar mutt kovilur, had a key role to play, in constructing and keeping alive Brahmin hate. A huge portion of Periyar's vitriolic work in the magazines/newspapers was actually written by Kuthoosi Gurusami, who was thondaimandala kondai katti vellalar. Probably an alibi. A bunch of such tamil pulavars sat behind periyar at all times.

Saiva Vellalas are one of the chief source of brahmin hate, and they are also the most sanskritized, ritualized 'hindus' of tamil nadu, and your man was the conduit for their hate. By calling brahmin hate and Dravidian movement as a 'missionary conspiracy' from the 'church', they make good people of all the criminals just because they are 'hindu'.

This way, all evil is from outside, from 'church', and "us hindus" are all good people. He/they are doing this deliberately, covering it up. So that subsequent generations do not know what happened, and what their ancestors have been doing.

Thats what you father, grandfathers, and your vaishnava acharya want to do. They know a lot of things and they deliberately didn't pass them on to you, in order to keep you 'innocent', like you are now. Most chettiar/mudaliar/pillai youth in USA/UK/Malaysia etc must be like this too. Deliberately kept in the dark by their fathers and uncles so that they grow up 'innocent', not knowing what kind of people they are, and what their clans have been doing in TN.

The moment you said this

...I assure you there is no need for a tag, but admittedly I wholeheartedly believe that this lifestyle is the best and most superior for MY peace of mind, and that is why I want to stay true to it and continue that. For me, yes. Meat eating and getting drunk and what not is most definitely lower. That’s just the way I was raised and I cannot go back. ...

you have decided what you're going to do. This is a proclamation that you are going to grab that tag, and ask anybody who says otherwise to F.O.. And this stmt says that you are going to selectively listen only to those who will tell you favourable answers. Then why ask at all?

Because you are looking for those people who will give you the answer that you want. Making that answer as a "dharmic" one is not so hard, come on. Idhellam oru 'feel' dhaney. dharma, scriptures ellam. edha vena epdi vena eduthukalam. That's why i stress on the simple man-to-man unwritten, unspoken agreement. People are born into castes, generally speaking. Neither you nor I nor those acharyas, experts in sasthras, had any say in the castes we were born into. If u really want the answer, u don't need to ask any acharyas. You ask them because u want them to give the answer that you need, and allay your guilt. I guess they can be bought too. Plata e plomo.

The more you speak, the more you are exposing what you really want. What you really want is to become the upper caste that Brahmin is....ur using some 6 rules and 'lifestyle' as a justification for this. What you want is simply that tag.

You say "varna doesnt talk about high or low" in preparation for this attack -> "so, u want to become still more upper caste from where you are, eh?. Say that. Why talk about dharma, and fure lifestyle and all".

You mouthe it, but u carry notions that brahmin is upper caste. And you want to reach that. Thats why your grandfather and acharya told you only one half of the story. They wanted their descendants to 'become' those very upper castes on whom they had been pouring infinite hate, back home. There is NOTHING dharmic or noble in this.

 

[Vaagmi]

Sir, I do not even understand what the nagarathars or some of the other groups you have described are. I assure you my family has no “brahmin-hatred” and I have never really heard of those attitudes in Andhra. My dads best friends growing up were from all castes (and they included brAhmins too). However, I thank you for your opinion and I’ll try to think about what you said with an open mind. And regarding “upper caste”, isn’t the concept of varnA that all varnAs are different but not less or more? We need all sorts of people. That’s what my AchArya said in the POV of Vaishnava viewpoint. I definitely do have guilt like you said (and that only developed recently after reading some of the translations of the Bramha-sUtrAs). I assure you there is no need for a tag, but admittedly I wholeheartedly believe that this lifestyle is the best and most superior for MY peace of mind, and that is why I want to stay true to it and continue that. For me, yes. Meat eating and getting drunk and what not is most definitely lower. That’s just the way I was raised and I cannot go back. You said that according to Indian culture in Vogue, we are permanently born into castes. Well if our ancestors thought that way, why would there even be these many castes? Even in the 1700s there were only 9 jAthis across the breadth of BhArathavarshA. In the 1800s there are records of 72 bOyA families who adopted the brAhminic lifestyle and “became brAhmins”. Now there are 100s-1000s of jAthis. Social constructs are always evolving, but it is hard to decipher which are sanctioned by dharmA and which are not was my issue. Regarding the 6 duties- exactly my point, those who do not follow them are not brAhmins but vrAtyAs or at best descendants of brAhmins (brAhmana-bandhUs). I do not know what “nappisai” means. However, I will give what you said some thought. Maybe I do need to be humbled as to what my intentions are and I will definitely do some introspection. Also, I am not Periyar’s grandson lol. I despise a lot of the stands he took and the stupidity that the cult (as you rightly stated) caused in society. That’s like saying if there was one bad brAhmin (by birth) who did bad things (and yes there are plenty of good and bad people from all walks of life), I should get mad at you for being his “grandson.” I only brought up the roots of the balijA caste as another example that there were members of all varnAs in the guild and how humans consolidated yet another group. If anything, it was destroying the idea that balijAs are some “elite class”. My loyalty is to sanathana dharmA and the vedic traditions. If someone has hurt you and you are mad at me for that, I will still apologize and hope that we may be cordial. I do thank you for your time in giving me your opinion though. It is clear that you disagree with this and I did ask for all opinions so I do respect disagreements as well. dhanyOsmi

Dear Govinda,
The conversation is interesting.
What exactly do you want here? You have said enough about yourself. But what exactly do you want? If you can make it clear in a few sentences it will help people here to respond. Please do let us know.

 

[Govindh]

Dear Govinda,
The conversation is interesting.
What exactly do you want here? You have said enough about yourself. But what exactly do you want? If you can make it clear in a few sentences it will help people here to respond. Please do let us know.

LOL yes, I think I diverged from my original question. Was just wondering if what I was doing by learning vEdAs, doing nityAgnihOtra, etc was wrong or not. I think I have received my answer though.

dhanyOsmi

 

[Govindh]

Dear Govindh,
As much as the post of "cm123534" is harsh and uncalled for but there is one thing i have to agree with what he says.

He used the word " TAG"
Ok, I agree that none of us should seek any tag but I am not saying this with harsh undertones ...but rather I mean to say one can just lose all man made identity when we surrender to God.

So there is no need to seek any type of lifestyle..just be yourself.

Seek yourself and hear what your heart resonates with.
Varna tags are only important for anyone who is still very much attached to his genetics or guna or janma.

Move beyond the need to mould ourselves according to rules that make no meaning to the Atma.

My advice is a lovely phrase from the Quran.
Kun Fayakun..which means BE AND IT IS!
So do that..just BE and everything that is meant to be will bloom within you in the eternal NOW in the sound of balance.

Very true renuka ji,

I agree. I will try to incorporate this thinking here onwards while I focus on my studies. I am thankful for what the both fo you have pointed out.

dhanyOsmI.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Those who pretend to be Brahmins:
The purpose of Poonul (sacred thread): First Brahmins vowed to be poor and only teach. They have to beg in five houses and if they get any thing eat or go hungry. Now that is not possible as no king, government wants poor to benefit. The three threads are symbolic in that- perform duty to learn, to serve the family and serve the community with detachment. No self pity or anger, rather believe that your current birth is a continuum and your spirit (Atma) entered a new baby when it was born. So, your previous births' doings will follow it until you pay your due. So, not wearing a Poonul is not a sin, but forgetting the symbolic significance is sin. Even Buddhism accepts rebirth though denies a GOD in the current sense of Indians. GOD is pervasive, was there, is there and will be there. Krishna says to Arjuna to go through the duties and not Philosophical way of Sanyasis- become Karma Sanjasi and not a sage in a forest. So, to be religious is not just wearing religious symbolic items but living with living religion-" Sarvam Krishana Mayam - Every thing Is LORD: Krishana" and HE(with she as power) controls the Universe.
Keep an open mind, do not harm others, love nature and not pollute, help the poor and old and be generous without greed. Then you will be a blessed Hindu.
Mani

 

[Rudra_Maha]

@Govindh Hi Govindh, do take into account @cm124534 comment on the political situation and witch hunting dished out on the Bs in the right context. What cm123534 pointed out is the naked truth, which cannot be avoided. It has to be spoken and discussed in the open, else all the hoopla done in the name of social justice in the last century and even ongoing today will be brushed under the carpet as if the Bs deserved it. @cm124534 has given you some redpill doses of what the Bs had to face/still facing in TN. I gave a go ahead sign to you a couple of months back, not gonna back off on that, but still when someone voices out truth, we have to stand by it.

You already initiated yourself into B'hood through your guru. So, there's no point in taking a U-turn now, but also contemplate on one thing, based on what you're doing, is that the Svadharma assigned to you. The whole basis of Varna-Ashrama suggested by Krishna is based on birth. Today, they've twisted everything and decries anyone who speaks about it or they start blaming the Bs for it. The Brahmin ideology which you're practicing today is bearing the brunt because of your ancestors.

Yes, there were many Bs who were bad, but bad apples were in all communities too. But the hate cauldron that is made in the state here is unparalleled, only other similar case is of the Jews. Except the Jews were physically harmed and killed, while the Bs and their life styles were systematically harassed, mocked and trivialized(except the killing part). A simple look at the literature furnished out against the Bs and their life would make you turn blue. Such is the venom that is being spit even today.

You're in the US, you may not be aware of the nuances of the politics happening here, which may not even make any sense to you. Seek the truth and in future please don't end up hating the Bs(who are anyways not a match to other communities today) and do another damage to the tradition you're now aspiring to follow. Just dont end up living a hypocritical life. Thats all!

 

[cm124534]

. Thanks. I have a lot more I need to spread. All very very hard things. My hands are itching to write about this "anaithu sadhi archagar" drama of DMK, but apparently, politics is to be discussed only in the separate 'politics' forum, as per rules of the site. Can anybody pls post the link to the 'politics' section in the forums?

Can you imagine EVK Sampath's grandson telling his son that "brahmin is not by birth. u just need to follow 6 aachara anushtanams and then follow ur acharya"? But it doesn't shock me. Because I know that Brahmin hate originates from those groups who say "we are 1 1/2 Brahmins", etc, and who are the most sanskritized and topmost of tamil groups. And I know that they specifically target Brahmin women for marriage, and seek to marry the offspring of that kind of marriage back into Brahmin families, all the while spewing Brahmin hate. And this groups "claiming to be brahmin" does happen in Delhi/Bombay and USA, etc.

And anyways our innocent balija naidu garu has already decided what he's gonna do. His grandfather didn't exactly pass on everything to him. His grandfather did Brahmin hate back at home, went to the US, and told his grandson that "bhakti is all you need". What a champ!... I am told there are many of those "chief culprit castes" just like this in the US. They don't know what their own people have been doing, and are 'innocent' like this.

Our man just needs some achu pichu ambi mamas from here to tell him what he wants to hear. That would be called 'religious sanction'. And people do fall for it, like ur saying u did.

Do you know what its called? woke. or, midhappu. a compulsion or urge to very actively demonstrate how so open minded and progressive we are. but this is a trick. They want us to express our open mindedness and make us say what they want to hear . We shouldn't fall for it. I don't like gurumurthy much but at least he had the balls to once say "Ennai pirpokkuvadhi endru etrukollungal nu solren".

Just like his or anybody else's caste is an accident, our births into the so called Brahmin caste is an accident too. We are not caste experts. It is pointless to ask anybody because nobody had a say in this. We are all equally helpless. I have gone deeper into this, thanks to Dravidian Movement, but I do not want to discuss those things with tamils because they have already disqualified themselves by carrying out and enabling one hundred years of Brahmin hate. Adhayum pannittu, indha pakkam vandhu innocenta kelvi ketta epdi. That's not how things work. You should have asked and clarified before you did the hate.

But then, lots of mudaliar/vellala/chettiar have this nappasai, inspite of doing the hate. This doesn't shock me. I have seen much worse...

 

[Govindh]

@Govindh Hi Govindh, do take into account @cm124534 comment on the political situation and witch hunting dished out on the Bs in the right context. What cm123534 pointed out is the naked truth, which cannot be avoided. It has to be spoken and discussed in the open, else all the hoopla done in the name of social justice in the last century and even ongoing today will be brushed under the carpet as if the Bs deserved it. @cm124534 has given you some redpill doses of what the Bs had to face/still facing in TN. I gave a go ahead sign to you a couple of months back, not gonna back off on that, but still when someone voices out truth, we have to stand by it.

You already initiated yourself into B'hood through your guru. So, there's no point in taking a U-turn now, but also contemplate on one thing, based on what you're doing, is that the Svadharma assigned to you. The whole basis of Varna-Ashrama suggested by Krishna is based on birth. Today, they've twisted everything and decries anyone who speaks about it or they start blaming the Bs for it. The Brahmin ideology which you're practicing today is bearing the brunt because of your ancestors.

Yes, there were many Bs who were bad, but bad apples were in all communities too. But the hate cauldron that is made in the state here is unparalleled, only other similar case is of the Jews. Except the Jews were physically harmed and killed, while the Bs and their life styles were systematically harassed, mocked and trivialized(except the killing part). A simple look at the literature furnished out against the Bs and their life would make you turn blue. Such is the venom that is being spit even today.

You're in the US, you may not be aware of the nuances of the politics happening here, which may not even make any sense to you. Seek the truth and in future please don't end up hating the Bs(who are anyways not a match to other communities today) and do another damage to the tradition you're now aspiring to follow. Just dont end up living a hypocritical life. Thats all!

No I’m not mad at what he’s saying at all. It’s the truth and it doesn’t matter if it was my ancestors who did it or someone else. I condemn it fully. For example Ravana was a brahmin but no brahmin supports him just for being one of his castemen. Heck, even vibhEEshanA did not support him. And to be honest, ya I don’t really know much of the politics of India or TN in particular. My parents themselves moved at a young age (I’m generation 2) so I think they themselves are pretty in the dark about this stuff. And I would never “hate the Bs” - all communities are important but to put it bluntly, I have nothing but respect for a group of people who have been devoted to the Lord, spread knowledge and lives a life of humility and sacrifice. My AcharyA has given me so much love and knowledge and they treat me like a son. How can I hate family? In the US, we stand United as Hindus. But Seriously, thank you guys for bringing this to my attention. I always heard “politics were different in TN” but cm154234’s responses have actually caused me to read more up on what happened. I might not be able to make much of a positive impact in my life to reverse this hatred (Again, there isn’t really hatred in Andhra…the feud is usually between kammas and reddys or non hindus vs hindus or “SC/STs” vs “forward” castes) but I’ll try to do my best to spread awareness. There is no Bharath without the BrAhmins. I can only imagine the levels of frustration it has to have reached for cm124534 to red pill me with the truth so boldly. As we say in our prayers daily, “gO brAhmanyEbho subhamasthu nityam, lOkAh samasthA sukhinO bhavanthU.” The day BharathavarshA reclaims it’s rich tradition of respecting gOmAtha and the brAhmins, that is the day it will reclaim its rightful stature as the “heart of the world”. In whatever way I can, I will always stand up for sanAthana dharmA, proper brAhmins who have been facing this horrible treatment and also the poor/impoverished “backward communities”. I actually got into a discussion with my grandfather after I read these posts, and he said that anti-brAhmin sentiment never took ahold in AndhrA and there was actually a movement against PeriyAr by rAma bhakthAs of which a lot of my direct ancestors/cousins were apart of. (Maybe they would not have have they been tamilian, I’m not sure). Apparently people used to vote not because of caste back then but because of idealogy. They in fact went to Chennai with the Jeeyar swAmi to protest against periyAr’s infamous disrespectful display of sri rAma chandrA prabhu. These (including the one that I was born into) “elite, landowning classes” such as kammas, balijAs, reddys, rAjus have also heavily discriminated against SC/STs. My grandfather told me himself that it was something he despised and this week, I have been reading literal historical records of people of “lower classes” being killed or lynched. Apparently there is a tamil movie (asuran) that also captures this history. It boils my blood. these communities felt “so discriminated” against,
so they started targetin LITERALLY the most peaceful community (ahimsA and sAttvic tendencies are most prevalent in BrAhmins) in India, why the F were they being violent against those that were “lower down” on this totem pole? ALL discrimination, against “untouchable” communities and against brAhmins are wrong and I refuse to continue that legacy. As for what I “label myself”, these were all good points given. @cm154234 has forced me to kinda introspect (like is anyone ACTUALLY stopping me or killing me for living the way I do? What was the need for me to ask for permission on this forum?). Going off of what Renuka ji and you have stated, there probably is a reason God has made me be born the way I am. For now, I will continue to upkeep my practices but stop worrying about the tag. If God ever graces me with enough influence to undo the mistakes done by the caste men in the past, I will make sure to do whatever I can. I think my questions have been answered and I will rest this discussion for now. dhanyOsmi.

 

[Govindh]

. Thanks. I have a lot more I need to spread. All very very hard things. My hands are itching to write about this "anaithu sadhi archagar" drama of DMK, but apparently, politics is to be discussed only in the separate 'politics' forum, as per rules of the site. Can anybody pls post the link to the 'politics' section in the forums?

Can you imagine EVK Sampath's grandson telling his son that "brahmin is not by birth. u just need to follow 6 aachara anushtanams and then follow ur acharya"? But it doesn't shock me. Because I know that Brahmin hate originates from those groups who say "we are 1 1/2 Brahmins", etc, and who are the most sanskritized and topmost of tamil groups. And I know that they specifically target Brahmin women for marriage, and seek to marry the offspring of that kind of marriage back into Brahmin families, all the while spewing Brahmin hate. And this groups "claiming to be brahmin" does happen in Delhi/Bombay and USA, etc.

And anyways our innocent balija naidu garu has already decided what he's gonna do. His grandfather didn't exactly pass on everything to him. His grandfather did Brahmin hate back at home, went to the US, and told his grandson that "bhakti is all you need". What a champ!... I am told there are many of those "chief culprit castes" just like this in the US. They don't know what their own people have been doing, and are 'innocent' like this.

Our man just needs some achu pichu ambi mamas from here to tell him what he wants to hear. That would be called 'religious sanction'. And people do fall for it, like ur saying u did.

Do you know what its called? woke. or, midhappu. a compulsion or urge to very actively demonstrate how so open minded and progressive we are. but this is a trick. They want us to express our open mindedness and make us say what they want to hear . We shouldn't fall for it. I don't like gurumurthy much but at least he had the balls to once say "Ennai pirpokkuvadhi endru etrukollungal nu solren".

Just like his or anybody else's caste is an accident, our births into the so called Brahmin caste is an accident too. We are not caste experts. It is pointless to ask anybody because nobody had a say in this. We are all equally helpless. I have gone deeper into this, thanks to Dravidian Movement, but I do not want to discuss those things with tamils because they have already disqualified themselves by carrying out and enabling one hundred years of Brahmin hate. Adhayum pannittu, indha pakkam vandhu innocenta kelvi ketta epdi. That's not how things work. You should have asked and clarified before you did the hate.

But then, lots of mudaliar/vellala/chettiar have this nappasai, inspite of doing the hate. This doesn't shock me. I have seen much worse...

Sir I request you to please stop insulting my grandfather. I am sorry I ever posted on this forum. I didn’t realize I would be this hated on account of my birth. For your information, I have no desire to marry a “brahmin girl”. Keep them to yourselves. Seriously. There are plenty of brahmin descendant girls and boys here in university who have been extremely promiscuous, drink and eat beef. Plenty of them who have offered me marijuana and alcohol and stated that even “the Gods drank and smoked.” Trust me. That does not attract me. But I would never say that an entire caste is bad or insult their grandparents. Sir, you must be much older than me. Please understand- I personally did no hate. You are hating me for something someone has done IN A DIFFERENT STATE years ago. The only requirements are having faith in Krishna and being vegetarian- not “brahmin girl”, etc. There are plenty of caucasians, North Indians, ISCKON/Arya samaj people who fit that role. If you have an issue with me posting please kick me out but I request of you respectfully to please stop insulting my grandparents. The more I try to be civil you keep bringing my grandparents into this. I am literally agreeing with you yet It’s almost like you want me to become a villain to confirm your bias. I don’t know who the heck EVK Sampath is. I am not tamilian. I am of Telugu origin. I’m unsure of why the moderator is letting him post this stuff or why nobody is calling anything out here. He keeps personally attacking my grandfather. Perhaps everything is not as black and white as I thought. I will stop responding but please- I request you to stop insulting my grandfather without actually knowing who he is, what he stands for and the values he has instilled in us. We are people too, with real emotions and respect for our parents and grandparents just like you do. I did not realize that I would be getting this much hate. Perhaps I should have understood the politics of TN more. The more I try to maintain a Vedic/Hindu-unity mindset, the more i am being seen as a villain. Let it be. I have no personal hate against anyone. I leave the rest to God. If there is anyway to delete this thread I request the moderator to do so because This has gone too far and he keeps linking me to DMK and abusing my grandfather. I don’t even know who DMK is. It was just several months ago I actually understood who Periyar was. And I am 100% against him. I am an American Hindu. I am loyal to my country and my religion. Not a caste, so please stop addressing me saracastically as a “balija naidu Garu”. Keep your hate to yourself. I apologize for posting on here. I will not make the mistake again. Let it be for Tamil Brahmins only. If there is anyway to delete this thread or the messages insulting or blaming my grandfather for things he was not even a part of, I request the moderator to do so. Enough is enough.

 

[cm124534]

No I’m not mad at what he’s saying at all. It’s the truth and it doesn’t matter if it was my ancestors who did it or someone else. I condemn it fully. For example Ravana was a brahmin but no brahmin supports him just for being one of his castemen. Heck, even vibhEEshanA did not support him. And to be honest, ya I don’t really know much of the politics of India or TN in particular. My parents themselves moved at a young age (I’m generation 2) so I think they themselves are pretty in the dark about this stuff. And I would never “hate the Bs” - all communities are important but to put it bluntly, I have nothing but respect for a group of people who have been devoted to the Lord, spread knowledge and lives a life of humility and sacrifice. My AcharyA has given me so much love and knowledge and they treat me like a son. How can I hate family? In the US, we stand United as Hindus. But Seriously, thank you guys for bringing this to my attention. I always heard “politics were different in TN” but cm154234’s responses have actually caused me to read more up on what happened. I might not be able to make much of a positive impact in my life to reverse this hatred (Again, there isn’t really hatred in Andhra…the feud is usually between kammas and reddys or non hindus vs hindus or “SC/STs” vs “forward” castes) but I’ll try to do my best to spread awareness. There is no Bharath without the BrAhmins. I can only imagine the levels of frustration it has to have reached for cm124534 to red pill me with the truth so boldly. As we say in our prayers daily, “gO brAhmanyEbho subhamasthu nityam, lOkAh samasthA sukhinO bhavanthU.” The day BharathavarshA reclaims it’s rich tradition of respecting gOmAtha and the brAhmins, that is the day it will reclaim its rightful stature as the “heart of the world”. In whatever way I can, I will always stand up for sanAthana dharmA, proper brAhmins who have been facing this horrible treatment and also the poor/impoverished “backward communities”. I actually got into a discussion with my grandfather after I read these posts, and he said that anti-brAhmin sentiment never took ahold in AndhrA and there was actually a movement against PeriyAr by rAma bhakthAs of which a lot of my direct ancestors/cousins were apart of. (Maybe they would not have have they been tamilian, I’m not sure). Apparently people used to vote not because of caste back then but because of idealogy. They in fact went to Chennai with the Jeeyar swAmi to protest against periyAr’s infamous disrespectful display of sri rAma chandrA prabhu. These (including the one that I was born into) “elite, landowning classes” such as kammas, balijAs, reddys, rAjus have also heavily discriminated against SC/STs. My grandfather told me himself that it was something he despised and this week, I have been reading literal historical records of people of “lower classes” being killed or lynched. Apparently there is a tamil movie (asuran) that also captures this history. It boils my blood. these communities felt “so discriminated” against,
so they started targetin LITERALLY the most peaceful community (ahimsA and sAttvic tendencies are most prevalent in BrAhmins) in India, why the F were they being violent against those that were “lower down” on this totem pole? ALL discrimination, against “untouchable” communities and against brAhmins are wrong and I refuse to continue that legacy. As for what I “label myself”, these were all good points given. @cm154234 has forced me to kinda introspect (like is anyone ACTUALLY stopping me or killing me for living the way I do? What was the need for me to ask for permission on this forum?). Going off of what Renuka ji and you have stated, there probably is a reason God has made me be born the way I am. For now, I will continue to upkeep my practices but stop worrying about the tag. If God ever graces me with enough influence to undo the mistakes done by the caste men in the past, I will make sure to do whatever I can. I think my questions have been answered and I will rest this discussion for now. dhanyOsmi.

Brahmin hate in TamilNadu and the tamil consciousness was constructed by the saiva vellalas, nattukottai nagarathars and thondaimandala thuluva vellala mudaliars. Periyar/your caste, balija naidus, were the nayakas who ruled southernmost part of the country via Madurai (the biggest), Gingee and Tanjore Nayaka Dynasties. But then, as you might know, Balija Nayakudus were basically traders. They have the title of 'chetti'.Check this vid out->

So...they were not proper monarchs. Since the breakdown of proper monarchy of the last pandyas in 14th century, proper monarchy died out in tamil lands. Instead, a 'layer' of landed elites were the defacto powers. Chettiar/mudaliar/pillai became this religio-cultural elite, with the nayakas as maybe only a little more than the titular head.

Your grandfathers want to protected yourses innocence by not telling you what kind of hate they built back home in tamilnadu. They want to make of you that very upper caste against whom they constructed a hate unseen in human history.

But...Brahmin hate did not originate with Periyar or Perumala Varadaraju (who was influential in Cheran Mahadevi Gurukulam incident and Rajaji's 'Kula Kalvi' issue) or even balija naidus. Brahmin hate is from saiva vellalas, chettiars, and thuluva vellala mudaliars, or, nagarathar-vellalar. Periyar was only a nozzle from which the vitriol of nagarathar-vellalar flowed.

'Periyar' was not that person. Not that person alone. 'Periyar' was the name of the cult built by Nagarathar-Vellalar (or, chettiar-mudaliar-pillai) in order to propagate and channelise their infinite brahmin hate. But they are the most sanskritized and ritualized of tamils, and the topmost castes. They kept vedic Brahminism alive in TN for centuries. They patronized it. And just like you, they too have deep longing for that 'Brahmin' tag. And they very often target brahmin women for marriage and get it done too.

Brahmins have been most foolish in calling 'Periyar' and Nagarathar-Vellalar (Dravidian) movement and "anti-hindu". When you call Drav movt and Brahmin hate as originating from 'anti-hindu' quarters, you automatically make good people of all the 'hindus' or 'saivas' by default. As if all problems are from outside force. But, the most hinduest of all tamils built Dravidian movement and Brahmin hate.

Aravindhan Neelakandan Pillai is taking India for a ride with his 'Breaking India' BS. He's saying some 'church' did Drav movt and Brahmin hate. He knows very well that his ilk have been behind it. He/they are doing this deliberately in order to bury their doings.

And you may be surprised, but this same combo of balija naidu-vellala was at play in Sri Lanka too. Eelam war was not sinhala vs tamil. Not completely. The last monarch of SL, Vikrama Rajasinghe, was of the same caste as Periyar. Balija Naidus ruled not only tamil lands, but Sri Lanka too. Kandy Nayaka dynasty. Vellalas are the local elites, and balija naidus were the outsider nayakas. They ruled with the help of the local elites. Brahmin hate originates from vellala-nagarathar, and ur caste was only a little more than a conduit. Ur hate was not so visceral so as to be institutionalized and rage for a hundred years.