Cho's Enge Brahmanan serial - Does it project the brahmins cause?

[SuryaKasyapa]

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surya,

i think it may be better if you could directly address the issues than the issuers. we are a forum, hopefully with some decorum.

sir, the following statement of yours is a gem, which i wish i had written .. 'These type of pushing the ball from sidelines and throwing it to the forward team will go on never ending as it is a sadistic pastime for the throwers' .

.............................................................

hope you don't mind. let us talk policies and principles, not personalities. god knows there are enough of them around here. thank you.

Sri Kunjuppu,

Before seeing this post of yours, getting a reference from another post from you in a different thread, I have made a reply post.

I always appreciate your mature suggestions, and never felt shy to admit for any slip if occurred and pointed out.

In fact, when I make a third party indirect type of reference in the discussion, it is only to take out the personal pinning and to avoid any hurt to anybody. The focus there is to the essence of the matter differed therein. I have seen this approach by public speakers especially politicians and public personalities, and also in journalistic usage.

The reference to the football was a natural effect of the current international fervour of football.

Greetings.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Dear Suryakasyapa,

Normally I would not have entered into a discussion at this stage, but for your sentence, "Someone from from some corner tries to pick the lost ball and throws to center court again, in the form of a disguised thread." You will notice that this thread was started by me and the reason for my starting this thread was also stated by me as clearly as I could.

Sri Sangom,

My post quoted by you was actually not meant against your thread. It was a sequel to msg no23 in the thread. As I did not quote that in my note, this assumption had come.

The re-introduction again of a topic in verbatim by a longstanding member was not necessary, when earlier ones were beaten and pounded million times, and the present thread was its way going on.

These type of reruns do not serve any positive purpose .


Greetings

 

[nachi naga]

Sri Sangom,

My post quoted by you was actually not meant against your thread. It was a sequel to msg no23 in the thread. As I did not quote that in my note, this assumption had come.

The re-introduction again of a topic in verbatim by a longstanding member was not necessary, when earlier ones were beaten and pounded million times, and the present thread was its way going on.

These type of reruns do not serve any positive purpose .


Greetings

sk

i agree.many ppl query.all they need to do use our search option.so many hits pop up.almost all topics are in archives.despite that ppl keep on prodding on the beaten path.of course many are gone from olden days or shud it be golden days.many,i believe got banned like the taliban islamic style ,you are another gem poster good going,enjoy your posts a lot.

 

[Subbaraman]

Cho Ramasamy is not the mouth piece of Tamil Brahmins.

 

[jayamani]

part II of the enge brahmanan serial ended today. Cho, was at his usual best in the last part and his final speech was brilliant. :hat::hail:

 

[kunjuppu]

part II of the enge brahmanan serial ended today. Cho, was at his usual best in the last part and his final speech was brilliant. :hat::hail:

jayamani,

brilliant, i think, is an overused term in our community, which appears to be full of 'brilliant' folks overflowing with brilliance.

can you please explain, what cho did in the last part that was brilliant?

fyi, i have watched cho dramas in the seventies. he was a great creator and writer of plays, which blended comedy with social issues of middle class (ie brahmins).

his political stands have not produced any one good, even to the brahmin community. he has antagonised every ruling clique. he thinks he is a rule above everyone. so, what good has he done?

 

[jayamani]

Kunjuppu,

To me, Brilliant is an understatement of what Cho says and writes. I would say i am moderate in my praise of him. Being fortunte to have followed his magazine and annual day functions, i am of the firm opinion that he does not mince words in what he feels right. What he was trying to impress upon is the even if some one tries to follow or becomes a varna brahmin, he will only be ridiculed and with the degeneration of values, it is not possible. This he has elucidated many a time in the series. His quotes of various scriptures were highly informative to me. He also mentioned clearly that he has taken the help of various books and scholars and he just presented it.

He has also written a masterpiece Hindu Maha Samudhram wherein he has covered so wide range of subjects with references which were enlightening to me. He had tried to disprove many a false notion about Hinduism and the various facets attached to that. Even the complex of issues, he has conveyed in simple way with his arguments also. I respect him for that.
He writes his opinion and his views in his magazine and he leaves it to the readers to mull over it and take a decision. He always ends his arguements with words,en karuthu.
His direct question and answer session with readers in annual day functions is quite unique and he is open to any question on his views and he replies to each and every one of them.
He has played his part in politics and he is not bothered about public accepting or rejecting his views. If his judgement on a particular issue is wrong, he is bold enoughn to admit that and not many have the guts to accept that. I feel he is always independent in his views. A honest and straight forward person.

When he was the Rajyasabha MP, he detailed all the works/activities he has undertaken in his magazine in respect of MP fund.

One can have difference of opinion in his views or actions. But to me, he is a brilliant and sharp analyst and communcating his views in a fearless manner and making the readers to think about issues. He has been honest to the core.

In one of his plays, there is a dialogue. "Confusion comes to those who think and our society never gets confused". I hope I can call this brilliant.

 

[nachi naga]

jayamani,

ch's tughlak is super magazine.not only that enge brahmanan is truly a nice serial.as to what he has done for brahmin community,i know as a tenant,he was a good landlord.decent man,knowledgeable ,witty,wisecrack,brilliant intellect.dunno why kunjuppu has such wit,when it comes to us tambramhs.i guess we are witty in our ownways,sometimes its appreciated and at time infuriating.its all in one head finally.

 

[Nara]

.....One can have difference of opinion in his views or actions. But to me, he is a brilliant and sharp analyst ....

Dear Shri jayamani,

Cho is definitely a brilliant guy alright, but look at the message he is peddling:

YouTube - Engey Brahmanan - Cho Explanation - Clip 5

(In this clip he covers his back side with a little praise for those women who fit the male dominated norms, but his main point is women need to be protected by men.)
​

 

[tbs]

Dear Shri jayamani,

Cho is definitely a brilliant guy alright, but look at the message he is peddling:

YouTube - Engey Brahmanan - Cho Explanation - Clip 5

(In this clip he covers his back side with a little praise for those women who fit the male dominated norms, but his main point is women need to be protected by men.)
​

hi Nara sir,
according to manusmriti,

PITA RAKSHATI KAUMARE,BHARTA RAKSHATI YOUVANE,
PUTRO RAKSHATI VARDHAKYE, NA STRI SWANTANTRYAM ARHATI..

this is cho quoting....the same way he says....YATRA NARYSTHU
PUJYAANTHE, THATRA DEVATHAH RAMANTHE......so whar he says
is correct according to manu niti...

regards
tbs

 

[saroja ram]

Finally, ..... an abrupt ending

Dear all

I am not sure how many of you were following the serial Enge Brahmanan regularly. It has ended abruptly on 1st July with Ashok being informed that he is none other than Vasishtar. Cho tried to project brahminical rituals, but, in my opinion, has failed. TB and KBs (kerala brahmins) have evolved and come along long way from doing pujais into all other forms of business activity. This applies to all the four segments prevalent in the earlier years. Given this, why are we trying to bring in a demarcation in society? We have faced enough flak and criticism for our ancestors following untouchability? Do we need to start all over again? If the serial had attempted to show the present trend of living in harmony, it would have been more realistic and acceptable.

 

[kunjuppu]

tbs,

cho should not be projecting manu, who is one of the most racist and sexist law givers. it does not apply to the current world.

saroja, you are 100% correct in your sentiments.

cho missed the bus and the train and the plane. He coould have used the serial to form a reformist opinion for the TBs who are still caught up in the superiority of brahmin caste frame of mind.

 

[sangom]

Cho's "engE brAmaNan" serial (Part-2) is over. Like the first part, this also ended abruptly with Ashok (Maharshi Vyasa as a human being in the 21st. century A.D.) suddenly ascending to his heavenly abode.

In this context I am reminded of a story which my cousin wrote in a children's hand-written magazine many years ago. The story was about a princess kidnapped by a demon and held captive. She could be freed only by killing the demon; but the "life" of the demon was kept in the form of a worm inside the stomach of a parrot in a cage in the demon's room, and the demon could be killed by destroying the worm, and that too without killing or harming the parrot!

The story of the adventurous prince venturing to free the princess (and marry her) ran nicely for a few issues of the magazine. Then came the critical stage - the prince was to accomplish the task of killing the demon. Things looked next to impossible. Luckily the three or four youngsters who were behind the magazine effort went to different places and schools at that stage and there was no further issue of the magazine. The poor prince was saved of an ordeal which would have been really difficult except by administering laxative to the paarot etc!!

In the same way, Vasishta going to Kailasam saved the day for Cho. Otherwise an ardent brahmin would have been either labelled as a mad man or would have been punished for murder!

I am, however, curious to know what happened to the poor girl who married Ashok in the hope of inheriting all the assets. Therefore, let our TB girls beware of any TB boy doing sandhyavandanam diligently, learning vedam, etc.; it could be some divine Maharshi in human form and he may simply leave her in the lurch when faced with a dilemma!!

 

[suraju06]

Sarojaram, Kunjuppu and Sangom,
Sarcasm, self-criticism and reformist enthusiasm apart, I would request you to think about these few lines.

I was travelling in the 2nd class compartment of a Mumbai Suburban train
during the peak hours on a working day. The crowd was so much that I could not move a millimeter any part of my body other than my hands which were firmly holding the handle hanging from a crossbar above. I was travelling from Santacruz to Churchgate and every stop on the way was a miserable experience as i was caught between crowd that was trying to get in and the crow that was trying to get down. I am sure there were many brahmins in that compartment just like me.

Again this time I was travelling by a train. That was in London through the Tube. The crowd was not as dense as it was in Mumbai. At the time of getting down there was some jostling.An European gentlemen was not able to put up even with that temporary inconvenience of close proximity of other human beings and was loudly cursing his fellow travellers to their annoyance.

Now tell me what is untouchability? If it is intolerance of close proximiity for whatever reason, is it not universal?

Being born a brahmin, I have been handed down a value system which is not only unique but is also the quintessence of centuries of experience and knowledge in living in hormony with nature and living a good and clean life. If I have inherited it why should I give it up? and why should I feel ashamed of it or why should I be apologetic about it? Rather I am proud of my heritage. This fervour for reform is all the result of ignorance and years of shrill indoctrination. If you think you have not been handed down any such value system, please search for it you will certainly get it. It may the mistake of your parents or your circumstances or your peculiar situation. Cheers.

 

[sangom]

Sarojaram, Kunjuppu and Sangom,
Sarcasm, self-criticism and reformist enthusiasm apart, I would request you to think about these few lines.

I was travelling in the 2nd class compartment of a Mumbai Suburban train
during the peak hours on a working day. The crowd was so much that I could not move a millimeter any part of my body other than my hands which were firmly holding the handle hanging from a crossbar above. I was travelling from Santacruz to Churchgate and every stop on the way was a miserable experience as i was caught between crowd that was trying to get in and the crow that was trying to get down. I am sure there were many brahmins in that compartment just like me.

Again this time I was travelling by a train. That was in London through the Tube. The crowd was not as dense as it was in Mumbai. At the time of getting down there was some jostling.An European gentlemen was not able to put up even with that temporary inconvenience of close proximity of other human beings and was loudly cursing his fellow travellers to their annoyance.

Now tell me what is untouchability? If it is intolerance of close proximiity for whatever reason, is it not universal?

Being born a brahmin, I have been handed down a value system which is not only unique but is also the quintessence of centuries of experience and knowledge in living in hormony with nature and living a good and clean life. If I have inherited it why should I give it up? and why should I feel ashamed of it or why should I be apologetic about it? Rather I am proud of my heritage. This fervour for reform is all the result of ignorance and years of shrill indoctrination. If you think you have not been handed down any such value system, please search for it you will certainly get it. It may the mistake of your parents or your circumstances or your peculiar situation. Cheers.

Dear Raju,

Greetings. I can't speak for Kunjuppu or Sarojaram but I can say that you have not understood me. Either it is my faulty language, but I think I made it as clear as possible when this thread was started by me, or, you feel that the serial projects the cause of brahmins in a way beneficial to them. I don't know.

If you find sarcasm in my post, it is not because I am against brahmins and their heritage but because I strongly feel that Cho's serial has painted brahmins in a bad light, especially when TBs in Tamil Nadu face very unenviable conditions. The central character of the serial Ashok does not fit any brahmin boy/young man of our times and if he is the typical example of a true brahmin, we all will appear very discredited creatures in the eyes of the NBs whether we are proud or not of a "value system which is not only unique but is also the quintessence of centuries of experience and knowledge in living in hormony with nature and living a good and clean life". BTW, I hope you have seen how the serial ended.

For your information, I am an old (70) brahmin and have respect for our heritage but am for such changes in our rituals, customs and beliefs, as may be necessary for us to lead a normal life peacefully in this world. Hope I have clarified my position.

If you feel the serial has helped to improve the image of the brahmin community, pl. feel free to let us know what are the reasons which make you feel so.

 

[kunjuppu]

suraju,

let me see if i can explain this more clearly, re the failure of cho's serial and its projections, and its failure to the brahmin community.

i have to give a different example, who is more easily understood.

for me, rajaji epitomizes the a modern brahmin leader, a mixture of the best of the good, and inherited bad.

the good: honesty, humility, good administration, hard work, thrift, simple living, religiosity at its deepest learning shorn of unnecessary and extravagant rituals, absence of pomposity...

the bad: inherent brahministic sense of superiority, evidenced by insensitivity to the other castes and aspirations, feeling that you are different and a cut above other hindus, exclusivity for temple priestdom, belief that caste is god given right...

in today's world, there is no space for manu and his racist, female hating thoughts. nobody is willing to serve under a regimen where there are destined to play the bottom fiddles, for the pleasure of some supposed god giving rights of certain groups of people. this is what i have found in the brahmins and brahminism.

how i think, i can better the future of hinduism? my children have strong hindu identity. but no sense of being a brahmin. just a foreign born hindu. they do not know how to discard a person by his name being rajagopalan or karuppan. on those rare occassions, if they do, it is only because someone has told them such. racism is learned. it is never divined. manu was wrong on this instance. cho was wrong to propagate manu. thus his serials do a great disservice to the brahmin community. it is only us who watch his show. my gut feeling.

 

[RVR]

I was not watching this serial but occasionally see it during my visit to other houses where I was forced to watch to avoid disturbing the hosts.

I just talked to some people about the end result. Probably Cho wanted to convey the message that even Rishi Vashishta if he come to the earth now, cannot live like a true brahmin as per varnasrama dharma in the present age. According to them the delivery of the message was not proper and abrupt end was just unbelievable.

Even in the political analysis, Cho was always confusing and it will be difficult to understand what he is conveying.

One thing which is clear `Cho is very much capable of confusing everybody'

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

cho is very articulate and able to quote from wide variety of source.i think brahmins only exist in mathams is the answere for enge brahmanan.as for the serial discontinuation,i am so sad,becoz i was enjoying it well.wish he continues owing to popular demand.cho is a awesome guy,extremely talented human being.i think brahmins ie by birth or otherwise who live a brahmana vaishanava like iskcon is a living reality.the guru for iskcon has done well ,but it actually the lord krshna is making such a lifestyle to continue as the adi-parampara guru.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Sangom Sir and Mr. Kunjuppu,
Pranams. I have made my views about Cho's serial clear earlier.My view is that this serial is a mediocre one.Period.Now what I have posted is about the general tendency I see among the TBs. They are always defensive, self critical and apologetic. I saw this trend in the following words posted here. I have given my views also:

1. Sarojaram--//Given this, why are we trying to bring in a demarcation in society? We have faced enough flak and criticism for our ancestors following untouchability? Do we need to start all over again? If the serial had attempted to show the present trend of living in harmony, it would have been more realistic and acceptable.//

My point is no body is forcing any demarcation on the society. Society by its very nature is heterogeneous. The homogeneity which the enthusiastic reformers are trying to bring in is extraneous to the nature of the society. Harmony can be achieved in a heterogeneous society also. It has nothing to do with being homogeneous. Rather a homogenous one will be a breeding ground for all sorts of problems. Our ancestors did not commit any crime. Interested quarters have created such an impression for political reasons. So we dont have to be apologetic.

Kunjuppu: //He coould have used the serial to form a reformist opinion for the TBs who are still caught up in the superiority of brahmin caste frame of mind.//
There is no superiority complex or frame of mind because of being brahmins. The superiority Complex or the frame of mind , if it is there, is because of real achievements and real superior quality of life lived. This kind of complex or frame of mind is common to all human beings. Brahmins are no exception. In our anxiety to be self-critical, real pride cannot be labelled as retrograde.
//the bad: inherent brahministic sense of superiority, evidenced by insensitivity to the other castes and aspirations, feeling that you are different and a cut above other hindus, exclusivity for temple priestdom, belief that caste is god given right...//
"inherent brahministic sense of superiority"--you have prejudged him and your views suffer from the infirmity of that prejudice.The pride if it was there could have been a genuine one like that of Klose thrusting his fist in the air after scoring the goal in the Argentina Vs Germany Quarter final world cup foot ball match today.
"insensitivity to other castes and aspirations" there was no such insensitivity in his mind.if you read his life history carefully you will come to this conclusion.
"a cut above other hindus"--if it were so his daughter would not have been the daughter in law of a bania(other hindu)
"caste is god given right"--He never thought that way. May be he could have thought that caste is a "given condition" in this world.
I am sorry I have to close because of power outaage here. I will continue and complete this later. Cheers.

 

[Nara]

......Probably Cho wanted to convey the message that even Rishi Vashishta if he come to the earth now, cannot live like a true brahmin as per varnasrama dharma in the present age.....

Folks,

Of the many pernicious things Cho says, as his sidekick asks some silly leading questions, the worst is this artificial dichotomy between "Varna Brahmin" and "Jati Brahmin". No lesser an authority than the previous Kanchi Shankarachariyar Sri Chandrasekara Swami says this in Kamakoti.org Hindu Dharma pages.

In common parlance jati is used for varna. I am also using the two as interchangeable terms.
​

According to him Jati and Varna are not the same, they are different. The difference is Jati is a subdivision of Varna, like Iyer, Iyengar are Jatis under the Varna Brahmana.

There is only one set of texts that tell how each varna is supposed to live and that is Dharma Shashthras. If the life of a "true" Bramana is not possible these days, that is matter to rejoice, not lament.

As I keep repeating here, more than 1000 years ago a few Azhvars recognized the scourge that the Jati based exclusivity really is. Concerted efforts were made to downplay caste identity. Here is a powerful statement by அழகிய மணவாளப் பெருமாள் நாயனார் in ஆசார்ய ஹ்ருதயம் verse #86, under Chapter 1, section 10.

அஜ்ஞர் ப்ரமிக்கிற வர்ண ஆச்ரம வித்யா வ்ருத்தங்களை கர்தப ஜன்மம், ச்வபசாதமம், சில்ப நைபுணம், பஸ்ம ஆஹுதி, சவ விதவாலங்காரம், என்று கழிப்பர்
​

Even our own greats from 1000 years ago felt divisions on the basis varna or jati is not a good thing, they are not god given identity, but a man made one as beneficial as Ahuti offered to ash.

So, don't take my words, SV acharyas have put down the gauntlet, the ideology of exclusivity of a varna Brahmin is just as undesirable as one of Jati Brahmin, even if you think Jati and Varna are more different than what Mahaswamigal has said.

Cheers!