• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Birthday & death Ceremonies

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nara

Well-known member
Our custom is to do ayush homam and other birth day rituals as per our birth stars and Death Divas according to the Thithi (Sukala & Krisna Paksa taken into cosideration)But why Rmanavami Krishna Jayanti are celeberate according to thithi & not by birth star? Jambu


Both star and thithi are taken into consideration for determining the precise day when these are to be celebrated. The rules to reconcile the difference between thithi and star differ from tradition to tradition. That is why the actual day when Sri Rama Navami or Sri Jayanthi are celebrated are sometimes different for different traditions. For example, Munithraiya Sri Jayanti and Matam Sri Jayanthi usually fall on consecutive days.

Also, there are different rules for human beings and Archa Avatharas like, say, Lord Ranganatha, or Kanch Varadhan. In Sri Vasihnava system, for human beings, the star must be present at least for 12 nA, otherwise the previous day is the star birthday.

Hope this explanation helps.

Cheers!
 
OP
OP
J

Jambu

Active member
Birthday death cerimonies

Please enlighten on this tradition also On Vaikund Ekadasi The Paramapada Vasal or Sorgavasal is opened in most of the temples in early mornings But I have seen in temples this is done in the evenings (Kodal alagar temple in Madurai) Why? Jambu
 

Nara

Well-known member
Please enlighten on this tradition also On Vaikund Ekadasi The Paramapada Vasal or Sorgavasal is opened in most of the temples in early mornings But I have seen in temples this is done in the evenings (Kodal alagar temple in Madurai) Why? Jambu

The rule Sri Viashnavas follow to determine Ekadasi is that the thithi must be present at Arunodayam, i.e. first light, which is about 6 nA.before sunrise. There are some more rules for very special situations -- these are explained in the Ahnika Grantha Commentary by the current Jeeyar of Srimath Ahobila Matam. But in the most part, Ekadasi, including Vaikunta and Kaisika Ekadasi, are determined by the simple rule I have stated above.

Temples follow their own traditions. This can vary from temple to temple. Some Vasihnava temples follow Pancharathra Agama (e.g. Sri Rangam) and some others follow Vaikanasa (e.g. Tiruppati Thirumalai). So, what you are saying may just be the temple tradition.

Cheers!
 
OP
OP
J

Jambu

Active member
Dear Nara The Navagrhams are not seen in Vashinavite temples.( Rare exception Koodal Alagar Permual Koil in Madurai) Any special significance?
 

Nara

Well-known member
Dear Nara The Navagrhams are not seen in Vashinavite temples.( Rare exception Koodal Alagar Permual Koil in Madurai) Any special significance?

Raju has addressed this question already. Sri Vaishnavas do not believe in praying to any devatha other than Sriman Narayana and entities known as Nithyasoorees. Temples may have other devathas such as Navagraham, and even Shiva and Durga in some temples. But knowledgeable Sri Vaishnavas will ignore these Sannidhees.

Cheers!
 
OP
OP
J

Jambu

Active member
Dear Nara could this be the reason for the contravery regarding the pilliar in Thirukurugan kudi in Tirunelveli dist?
 

Nara

Well-known member
Dear Nara could this be the reason for the contravery regarding the pilliar in Thirukurugan kudi in Tirunelveli dist?

Dear Jambu, I really don't know. In these matters the Sthala tradition takes precedence over Sri Vaishnava tradition.

Cheers!
 

DURGADASAN

Active member
Dear Nara

Whether Pillaiyar in saivism is equivalent to that of "Vishvaksena" in vaishnavism?

Pranams
 

Nara

Well-known member
Dear Nara
Whether Pillaiyar in saivism is equivalent to that of "Vishvaksena" in vaishnavism?

Dear DD,
Viswaksenar is the chief of all Vishnu Ganas in Sri Vaikuntam. In rituals, I think Smarthas start with a prayer to Pillaiyar for successful completion. Sri Vaishnavas do Viswaksenar aradhanai.

But for Sri Vaishnavas, Viswaksenar is much more than just the above.

He is in the Acharya lineage that starts from Sriman Narayana and comes down to the present day Acharya. He is third in this line, right after Sriman Narayana and Thayar Lakshmi.

He is also supposed to be have taken Avathara as Nammazhvar, who is fourth in the Acharya lineage, right after he himself in Sri Vaikuntam. So Viswaksenar gets to be in Acharya lineage twice, once as Viswaksenar himself, and once as Nammazhvar Avatharam.

Cheers!
 

DURGADASAN

Active member
Thanks for the info Nara. In Vaishnavism, only Vishnu is important and all others are set apart na. So, there would not be any separate temples for Vishwaksena na??? I think in that aspect, pillaiyar has gained much more importance than vishwaksena na?

Pranams
 

Nara

Well-known member
Thanks for the info Nara. In Vaishnavism, only Vishnu is important and all others are set apart na. So, there would not be any separate temples for Vishwaksena na??? I think in that aspect, pillaiyar has gained much more importance than vishwaksena na?


Dear DD, you are quite right, strict Sri Vaishnavas won't even visit Anchaneya temple -- Anchaneya in Rama Parivar is what they adore.

Regardless of anything, Pillaiyar is lot more important to the general public than Viswaksenar, most may not even know of Viswaksenar!

Cheers!
 

DURGADASAN

Active member
Dear Nara

I just need one more clarification too... What this strict vaishnava means? I saw some elderly guys, who are my papa's friends and some are my neighbours. They came to our home often and mingle with us quite common. They eat with us and all. But all of a sudden, one day three of them stopped even drinking water in my home. They said that they hereafter wont visit any siva temples, wont eat prasadams and wont mingle with us (For your kind information am also brahmin na...). Since they got some marks with them (samashanam or sadaksharam, I am not sure about the name of samskrara), they said these things. Are u denoting these guys are strict vaishnavas??? Why is this so? Worshipping their own god and showing supremacy to him is surely there in all religion. Iam certainly not into that. But why all of a sudden just becoz of this samskara, they treat even their own friends of their own community as fourth standard people??? I was much confused with their activities Nara. Kindly clarify me in this regard.

Pranams
 

Nara

Well-known member
..... What this strict vaishnava means?

Dear DD, I used the term "strict" a little carelessly. I should have said "Sri Vaishnavas who are not casual".

Like Upanayanam is an important samskaram for the body, the most important samskaram for the jeeva, according to Sri Vasihnavam, is Pancha Samskaram, aka Samasrayanam. This samskaram, in as much as it is for the jeeva, is for both genders. It is administered only by a traditional and qualified acharya and this person remains one's acharya for life. Samasrayanam also means approaching an Acharya. Even though Bhagavat Ramanuja had several acharyas, and even though the most important among them was Thirukkoshtiyur Nambi, it is Periya Nambi who is considered his acharya and is in the acharya lineage because it was Periya Nambi who performed Pancha Samskaram for him.

The five Samskaramas of Smasrayanam are:
  1. Tapa samskaram -- marking the shoulders with Shakhu and Chakram by the acharya,
  2. pundra samskaram -- marking thiruman & sri choornam in twelve places in the body with appropriate manthras, by the acharya, from this time onwards, the male Sri Vaishnavas are supposed to wear 12 thiruman Sri Choornams with proper manthras
  3. Nama Samskaram -- taking the dasya namam, from this time onwards, they should refer themselves as only Ramanuja Dasan
  4. manthra samskaram -- upadesham of three rahasya manthras, (i) Thiruvashtakshram, (ii) Dwayam, and (iii) BG Charama shlokam (for females the manthras are slightly changed as they are forbidden from hcanting pranavam
  5. Ijyai samskaram -- Initiation into performing Thiruvaradhanam for Sriman Narayana (only for men, women can only assist men in this task)
A detailed writeup on Pancha Samskaram can be found here.

For Vadakalis there is one more step required, and that is Prapatti -- unconditional saranagathi.

Even though "anya-devatha" worship is not even supposed to enter the radar screen of Sri Vaishnavas, the observance of these rituals brings home the importance of the traditional practices. This is why you find a profound change in their behavior. Sri Vaishnavas who are lackadaisical about these matters suddenly become quite serious.

Partaking food is another serious matter. Food must be prepared by Sri Vaishnavas who have already undergone Samasrayanam. It must be offered first to Sriman Narayana through a proper Thiruvaradhanam performed in the prescribed manner. Very orthodox Sri Vaishnavas will not even eat in Matams as they consider the acharam/anushtanam of kainkaryaparas wanting. Some of them won't even accept theertham from even Sri Vaishnava temples unless it is right after the conclusion of "Satrumurai".

Cheers!
 
OP
OP
J

Jambu

Active member
Dear Nara

Few more information please regarding Ayyangars.

What is the real cause for division Vada Kalai & Then Kali. Is it geographical People in south Tenkalai & North as Vadakalai or more to Cultural division like rituals etc?

Have you ever heard of names like Subramania Iyengar or Ganapathi Iyengar? Even common names like Sankaranaryan you dont have in Iyengar any Particular reason?

Interesting Tail piece I have a close Iyengar friend His son is married to an Iyer Girl Now they have a son and named him Prahalad. I asked him teasingly why Prahlad Is your son Hiranyakasyabu? Smart retort Why bother about son? Child should not utter any mantra but Narayana! What is in a Name? May be tiger never changes his spot!

I have seen Iyengars of Andhra and Karnataka But never from Kerala. No Iyegars Of Keralas origin?
Jambu
 

DURGADASAN

Active member
Dear Nara

Thanks for the total clarification. Yeah. Now I got the word "Samasrayanam". I dont know how much this religious act develops them into the path of divinity, but I think it certainly deviates them from the society. I think shri ramanuja has never seen casteism. Even Thirupaanazhwar is also included in alwar's list. Then why such isolation practices came in such a heightened sect. This is really mysterious.

Dear Jambu
I think Iyengars are even in kerala also. Might be we people are not much aware of them. Also, in kerala, their own sects like namboothiris, bhats, panikars, pothis, etc. are also there. So the count is much restricted. But as true vaishnavites (???) (am sorry for that questionmarks, coz am totally confused about vaishnavites) are also there na... Guruvayurappan, Varkala Jegannatha, Thiruvaranvila krishnan, Padmanabha swami are all residing there only na...

Pranams
 

Nara

Well-known member
What is the real cause for division Vada Kalai & Then Kali. Is it geographical People in south Tenkalai & North as Vadakalai or more to Cultural division like rituals etc?

This was discussed at length a few months back. Please refer to this thread. http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-traditions/3193-vaishnavism-vadagalai-thengalai.html

Have you ever heard of names like Subramania Iyengar or Ganapathi Iyengar?

Iyengars being Sri Vasihnavas do not name their children after any devatha other than Sriman Narayana and acharyas of Sri Vaishnava tradition.

I have seen Iyengars of Andhra and Karnataka But never from Kerala. No Iyegars Of Keralas origin?

Bhagavat Ramanuja was successfully rebuffed by the Padmanabha temple community. This is probably the reason.

Cheers!
 

RVR

Well-known member
I have visited all the Vaishava Divya desams in Kerala (Malai Naattu Thiruppathigal). Only Namboodris are doing poojas in these temples.


I just want to know `why Guruvayur is not considered as a Divya desam'

Similarly Mannargudi Rajagopalaswamy temple is one of the biggest Vaishnavite temple but still doesn't have any Pasuram from Alwars and hence is not considered as a Divya Desam

All the best
 

DURGADASAN

Active member
Dear RVR uncle

We cannot say a sthalam has less important just becoz it doesn't owned a pasuram or thevaram. I think Mannargudi comes under "Abhimana sthalam". There are so many sivan temples also like this. Two reasons which I found in POV are:

1. Might be the sacred verses for those temples has been lost due to time
2. Might be due to transportation and unknowing the presence of temples over there, the azhwars and moovars would have missed out them.

But the chance for 2nd reason is quite impossible. Because almost all of them had visited the whole southindia nook and corners. By tracing out temples even in small and remote villages, we can know this very well. So, the chance of missing out the verses stands there.

Might be sometimes, I also think, for a count vaishnavites just stopped with 108 (a number with greater power) (orelse how it be possible to just stop exactly with 108 temples???). There should be some reason even if not for fascination.

Uncle, can you say, Thapalampuliyur shivan has not gained much importance than any padal petra sivan, just because he doesn't owned a song???

Pranams
 
Last edited:

Nara

Well-known member
I have visited all the Vaishava Divya desams in Kerala (Malai Naattu Thiruppathigal). Only Namboodris are doing poojas in these temples.

Dear RVR Sir, the aradhakas are not Namboodris, they are Pottis.

I just want to know `why Guruvayur is not considered as a Divya desam'
You have given the answer yourself, because, "...doesn't have any Pasuram from Alwars and hence is not considered as a Divya Desam"

Cheers!
 
OP
OP
J

Jambu

Active member
Similar Views

Dear DD, you are quite right, strict Sri Vaishnavas won't even visit Anchaneya temple -- Anchaneya in Rama Parivar is what they adore.

Regardless of anything, Pillaiyar is lot more important to the general public than Viswaksenar, most may not even know of Viswaksenar!

Cheers!

Dear Nara There seems to be similar View among (Strict) non casual Iyengars and Strict (Non casual) Muslim They don't bow to any one other than Narayana Or Allah . No Vandemataram to o Muslims. But ironically this song was reinvented or remixed by A.R. Rehman a mMuslim by choice! I like that version of Rehman

Raghuathi Ragava Raja Ram
Pathithapavana Seetha Ram
Iwara Allha Thero Nam
Sabuko Sanmath De Bagawan
Enjoy

Jambu:drum::
 

DURGADASAN

Active member
Dear Nara

What you think of the distinction among the temples owned a pasuram and others? for simply not owning a pasuram, whether the sanctity decrease or the fame dissolves??

Pranams
 

Nara

Well-known member
What you think of the distinction among the temples owned a pasuram and others? for simply not owning a pasuram, whether the sanctity decrease or the fame dissolves??

Dear DD, For Sri Vaishnavas all Archa moorthees are equal, starting from Salagrama moorthy in one's own home to Sri Ranganatha in Sri Rangam. Also, some Abimana Sthalams are more popular and famous (viz. Poori Jagannath) than scores of Dhivya Desams, (viz. a row of Chola Nattu thiruppathees).

One difference I was once told by a Sri vaishnava is that Azvar pasurams are so great that even if proper Thiruvaradhanam is not conducted, the saannidhyam of Dhivya Desa Archa moorthees will not diminish, while the saannidhyam of Abhimana Sthalam lasts only as long as uninterrupted thiruvaradhanam continues.

Cheers!
 

sri_1928

Member
For jambu sir que reg navgrah is not there in vaishnavite temple main reason is you have concentrate on lord venkateswara is to atttain moksam or gnana neelai.our birth (particulary brahmin) is only to know the higher state ie attaning moksha.Many exception like other varnas attain moksha due to there previous birth punnium.

The problems we are facing during life term is 65% previous birth pavam done & 35 % only what we are doing now wrong things.To eliminate all the hurdles we are praying navagraha since all the problems or peace fullness is given by the graha accroding to our account.If ur aim is attain moksha y u worry about this earthen life problems. so there is no navagraha sannidhi.
Vaishnavites main aim to attain moksham let any problem come in this earthen life, they dont worry.That is y no navagraha. This only in early days.Now everybody needs health, wealth etc that is y we have pray navagraha. What i'm telling is in olden days. Now only very very few attain this higher state due to kaliyug.
P.S if anybody found anything wrong in above pl correct me.
 

DURGADASAN

Active member
Dear Sri_1928
How can this be judged? Almost all the navagrahas are independent of "-isms" (both saivism and vaishnavism). If you say moon is wore by siva, I will say moon is the brother of lakshmi. They act in totally independent way. So how can you say that vaishnavities are keen in mukthi??? are those saivites not interested in that? How we people can say 65%35% maska-chaska combos and all. Am much confused. The fruits of sins and goods should be experienced by everyone supposed. THe mukthas are not exceptional. Even siddhars, why siddhars, the great avatar RAMA, he himself suffered with problems and to get rid of them he did 9graha pooja in Devipattinam. So, no exceptions to anyone. As Nara said, there is only one god for them and so they are ready to even ignore the saparivara devathas of sriman narayana itself. So, they left 9grahas. It doesnt mean that they are keen in mukthi. Its yet another way of monotheism. Thats all I think.

Also, they say 9thirupathis for 9grahas and also some divyadesam temples especially for some grahas near kumbakonam. It means they are equilising narayana to 9graha or the other way around. It does not mean that they are totally ignoring them. If there is total ignorance, such comparisons and specialities should not arise.

P.S. If you found anything wrong in above pl correct me.

Pranams
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
Thank you for visiting TamilBrahmins.com

You seem to have an Ad Blocker on.

We depend on advertising to keep our content free for you. Please consider whitelisting us in your ad blocker so that we can continue to provide the content you have come here to enjoy.

Alternatively, consider upgrading your account to enjoy an ad-free experience along with numerous other benefits. To upgrade your account, please visit the account upgrades page

You can also donate financially if you can. Please Click Here on how you can do that.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks