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Bhisma and Jatayu

naithru

Active member
Pretty long but worth reading....THE BHISMA WAY or THE JATAYU WAY

"Difficulty is the excuse history never accepts." - Edward R. Murrow

No two people react to the same situation in a similar way. Here are examples of two great personalities who were faced with a very similar situation, but thier responses were completely different.

This is a comparitive study between r. Both, of them were faced with seeing exploitation of women. One chose to try to protect the victim and the other chose to be a mute spectator of the crime. You will be shocked to see the similarities of the situation they faced.

1) POWERFUL or POWERLESS
Bhisma was a powerful and capable warrior and if he wanted, he could have stopped the disrobing of Draupadi - the Queen but he chose to be a silent witness of this act whereas Jatayu was old and invalid and knew that in all probability, Ravana would kill him but still, he chose to try his best to protect Sita - the Queen. Bhisma was powerful yet acted powerless whereas Jatayu was powerless yet acted powerful. "Real power is not about physical strength but about the deep desire to help."

2) ALIVE or DEAD
Bhisma lived on but died everyday to his conscience whereas Jatayu died once but lived eternally true to his conscience. "Our only constant companion is our concience - better to be true to it."

3) FAME or INFAMY
Bhisma's name and fame went down in history because of this one act of not stopping the disrobing of Draupadi but Jatayu's name and fame went high in history because of his act of trying to save Sita. "We are all going to be mere names in history, sooner or later. Will we be equated with the bad or the good - is our choice."

4) CULTURE or VULTURE
Bhisma was supposed to be a highly cultured human but acted highly insensitive and stooped low in values like a vulture whereas Jatayu was supposed to be a lowly uncultured vulture but acted highly sensitive and soared the skies in values like an evolved human. Who would you call as a human - Bhisma or Jatayu? "One doesn't become a human being by being born as a human - one becomes a human being by being a human."

5) SPOKEN or UNSPOKEN WORDS
Draupadi begged and pleaded protection from Bhisma because she knew if someone could protect her it was only him but still Bhisma didn't protect her whereas Sita didn't even ask Jatayu for protection - she just wanted him to inform Rama about her kidnapping by Ravana because she knew Jatayu was not powerful but still Jatayu tried to protect Sita. Bhisma being a human couldn't even understand the spoken words of Draupadi what to speak of understanding her unspoken words whereas Jatayu even though was a mere bird, understood not only the spoken words of Sita but also her unspoken words. "The language of heart is more powerful than the language of words."

6) CLARITY or CONFUSION
Bhisma was confused regarding his Royal duty that he forgot that he had a higher duty - a moral duty whereas Jatayu was so clear about his moral duty that no other duty was a consideration for him. "When caught up in dilemmas, best is to follow the higher principles - to follow our heart because it always knows the truth."

7) GOOD or BAD EXAMPLE
Bhisma set a very bad precedent for generations to come whereas Jatayu set the most ideal precedent for generations to come. "If we can't be a great example atleast let us not be a bad one."

8) RELATIVE or STRANGER
Another interesting point is that Bhisma was an elderly relative of Draupadi but acted as a total stranger in this episode whereas Jatayu was not at all related to Sita, he was a stranger but acted more than a dearest relative. "True relationships is based on heartly connections not just bodily connections."

9) THE SAINTLY or THE WICKED
Both, Bhisma and Jatayu had a few moments to decide what to do. Life, sometimes puts in situations where in a few moments we need to take crucial decisions. What we decide very much depends on the kind of inner integrity we have cultivated by the association we keep. Bhisma's intelligence was clouded and it failed the test of life because he associated with the wicked minded, selfish Kauravas whereas Jatayu's intelligence was crystal clear and it passed the test of life because he associated with the saintly, selfless Lakshman and the All-pure Lord Rama. "After all, who we are solely depends on whom we associate with."

10) EMBRACE or NEGLECT
The Supreme Lord as Sri Krishna was not at all happy with this attitude of Bhisma so much so that when He came as a peace messenger to Hastinapur, He didn't even bother to look at Bhisma, what to speak of respecting him whereas The Supreme Lord as Ramachandra was so happy with the attitude of Jatayu that He embraced him and personally did his final rites - a honour that even Dasharath - His father didn't receive. "The scriptures explain that the ultimate test of any activity is, if the Supreme Lord is pleased with us." It is very clear, Bhisma displeased God whereas Jatayu pleased Him.

All this, is not meant to criticize Bhisma - he is undoubtedly a great personality but we do vehemently criticize this action of his. The mood is to learn from the mistakes he made, so that we don't unconsciously take a similar stance of callousness and insensitivity towards the suffering of another. When we see some injustice, some problem, we have only two options - either close your eyes to it or do something about it - follow "the Bhisma way" or "the Jatayu way" and whichever way we choose remember there will also be a result - "the Bhisma result" or "the Jatayu result".

- Achyut Gopal Das
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Naithruji,
That was a wonderful post.

The one point I would like to differ is that Bhishma still lives big in our culture. He lives permanently in Vishnu Sahasranama and Gita. Society did not condone the insulting of women, that is why it still continues even today.

In this age of Me-Too, it would have been different.

When we see some injustice, some problem, we have only two options - either close your eyes to it or do something about it - follow "the Bhisma way" or "the Jatayu way" and whichever way we choose remember there will also be a result - "the Bhisma result" or "the Jatayu result".
There are more options today. There are "independent" judiciary and support groups, you don't have to act alone. So there are many more shades of actions. It is not always life or death situation.

In Bhishma and Jatuyu time it was different.
 
Last edited:

renuka

Well-known member
Pretty long but worth reading....THE BHISMA WAY or THE JATAYU WAY

"Difficulty is the excuse history never accepts." - Edward R. Murrow


No two people react to the same situation in a similar way. Here are examples of two great personalities who were faced with a very similar situation, but thier responses were completely different.

This is a comparitive study between r. Both, of them were faced with seeing exploitation of women. One chose to try to protect the victim and the other chose to be a mute spectator of the crime. You will be shocked to see the similarities of the situation they faced.

1) POWERFUL or POWERLESS
Bhisma was a powerful and capable warrior and if he wanted, he could have stopped the disrobing of Draupadi - the Queen but he chose to be a silent witness of this act whereas Jatayu was old and invalid and knew that in all probability, Ravana would kill him but still, he chose to try his best to protect Sita - the Queen. Bhisma was powerful yet acted powerless whereas Jatayu was powerless yet acted powerful. "Real power is not about physical strength but about the deep desire to help."

2) ALIVE or DEAD

Bhisma lived on but died everyday to his conscience whereas Jatayu died once but lived eternally true to his conscience. "Our only constant companion is our concience - better to be true to it."

3) FAME or INFAMY

Bhisma's name and fame went down in history because of this one act of not stopping the disrobing of Draupadi but Jatayu's name and fame went high in history because of his act of trying to save Sita. "We are all going to be mere names in history, sooner or later. Will we be equated with the bad or the good - is our choice."

4) CULTURE or VULTURE

Bhisma was supposed to be a highly cultured human but acted highly insensitive and stooped low in values like a vulture whereas Jatayu was supposed to be a lowly uncultured vulture but acted highly sensitive and soared the skies in values like an evolved human. Who would you call as a human - Bhisma or Jatayu? "One doesn't become a human being by being born as a human - one becomes a human being by being a human."

5) SPOKEN or UNSPOKEN WORDS

Draupadi begged and pleaded protection from Bhisma because she knew if someone could protect her it was only him but still Bhisma didn't protect her whereas Sita didn't even ask Jatayu for protection - she just wanted him to inform Rama about her kidnapping by Ravana because she knew Jatayu was not powerful but still Jatayu tried to protect Sita. Bhisma being a human couldn't even understand the spoken words of Draupadi what to speak of understanding her unspoken words whereas Jatayu even though was a mere bird, understood not only the spoken words of Sita but also her unspoken words. "The language of heart is more powerful than the language of words."

6) CLARITY or CONFUSION

Bhisma was confused regarding his Royal duty that he forgot that he had a higher duty - a moral duty whereas Jatayu was so clear about his moral duty that no other duty was a consideration for him. "When caught up in dilemmas, best is to follow the higher principles - to follow our heart because it always knows the truth."

7) GOOD or BAD EXAMPLE

Bhisma set a very bad precedent for generations to come whereas Jatayu set the most ideal precedent for generations to come. "If we can't be a great example atleast let us not be a bad one."

8) RELATIVE or STRANGER

Another interesting point is that Bhisma was an elderly relative of Draupadi but acted as a total stranger in this episode whereas Jatayu was not at all related to Sita, he was a stranger but acted more than a dearest relative. "True relationships is based on heartly connections not just bodily connections."

9) THE SAINTLY or THE WICKED

Both, Bhisma and Jatayu had a few moments to decide what to do. Life, sometimes puts in situations where in a few moments we need to take crucial decisions. What we decide very much depends on the kind of inner integrity we have cultivated by the association we keep. Bhisma's intelligence was clouded and it failed the test of life because he associated with the wicked minded, selfish Kauravas whereas Jatayu's intelligence was crystal clear and it passed the test of life because he associated with the saintly, selfless Lakshman and the All-pure Lord Rama. "After all, who we are solely depends on whom we associate with."

10) EMBRACE or NEGLECT

The Supreme Lord as Sri Krishna was not at all happy with this attitude of Bhisma so much so that when He came as a peace messenger to Hastinapur, He didn't even bother to look at Bhisma, what to speak of respecting him whereas The Supreme Lord as Ramachandra was so happy with the attitude of Jatayu that He embraced him and personally did his final rites - a honour that even Dasharath - His father didn't receive. "The scriptures explain that the ultimate test of any activity is, if the Supreme Lord is pleased with us." It is very clear, Bhisma displeased God whereas Jatayu pleased Him.

All this, is not meant to criticize Bhisma - he is undoubtedly a great personality but we do vehemently criticize this action of his. The mood is to learn from the mistakes he made, so that we don't unconsciously take a similar stance of callousness and insensitivity towards the suffering of another. When we see some injustice, some problem, we have only two options - either close your eyes to it or do something about it - follow "the Bhisma way" or "the Jatayu way" and whichever way we choose remember there will also be a result - "the Bhisma result" or "the Jatayu result".

- Achyut Gopal Das
Summary..
An animal proves better than a human.
 

KRN

Active member
Interesting comparison, but perhaps in his enthusiasm and preference to Jatayu, the author has made factual errors w.r.t the Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata.

I consider Ramayana the first detective story in the world. The action in this story within the story, starts the moment Ravana carries Sita away and ends with Hanuman locating Sita in the Ashoka vanam. The episodes coming in between, and the characters taking part, each has a clear role to play. Ramayana also teaches us that man, no matter his accomplishments, can achieve ultimate success in life only with the support of other human and non-human beings.
 

KRN

Active member
Draupadi begged and pleaded protection from Bhisma because she knew if someone could protect her it was only him but still Bhisma didn't protect her whereas Sita didn't even ask Jatayu for protection - she just wanted him to inform Rama about her kidnapping by Ravana because she knew Jatayu was not powerful but still Jatayu tried to protect Sita.
Draupadi never asked for protection from anyone. All that she asked (and asked repeatedly) of everyone assembled in the Sabha is, whether Dharmaputra staked himself before he staked her. And if yes, then whether the staking of her is valid. This is a legal question.

Whereas Jatayu, of his own volition, had earlier promised Rama that he will protect Sita whenever Rama and Lakshmana are away hunting in the forest. So he was bound by his promise (in addition to his affection for Rama and Sita)

Sita did pray for protection from all beings in the forest. Jatayu was alerted from his slumber by Sita's wails seeking protection.
 

KRN

Active member
Bhisma was a powerful and capable warrior and if he wanted, he could have stopped the disrobing of Draupadi - the Queen but he chose to be a silent witness of this act whereas Jatayu was old and invalid and knew that in all probability, Ravana would kill him but still, he chose to try his best to protect Sita - the Queen. Bhisma was powerful yet acted powerless whereas Jatayu was powerless yet acted powerful. "Real power is not about physical strength but about the deep desire to help."
The disrobing of Draupadi might be a late interpolation in the Mahabharata, perhaps by a Krishna-bhakta. For some more info on this, refer https://www.quora.com/Was-Draupadi-ever-disrobed
 

KRN

Active member
Bhisma was supposed to be a highly cultured human but acted highly insensitive and stooped low in values like a vulture whereas Jatayu was supposed to be a lowly uncultured vulture but acted highly sensitive and soared the skies in values like an evolved human. Who would you call as a human - Bhisma or Jatayu? "One doesn't become a human being by being born as a human - one becomes a human being by being a human."


Jatayu was the son of Aruna, the charioteer of Surya. Was he a lowly uncultured vulture? In the Ramayana he states, he was 60,000 years old at that time. Assuming it to be not a poetic licence (or for that matter, the whole episode of a vulture talking in human voice or performing other miraculous exploits can be called a poetic licence) he was no ordinary vulture.
 

KRN

Active member
The Supreme Lord as Sri Krishna was not at all happy with this attitude of Bhisma so much so that when He came as a peace messenger to Hastinapur, He didn't even bother to look at Bhisma, what to speak of respecting him
Totally wrong and against the Mahabharata story!
whereas The Supreme Lord as Ramachandra was so happy with the attitude of Jatayu that He embraced him and personally did his final rites - a honour that even Dasharath - His father didn't receive.
Totally wrong, and against the Valmiki Ramayana story!
"The scriptures explain that the ultimate test of any activity is, if the Supreme Lord is pleased with us."
It is very clear, Bhisma displeased God whereas Jatayu pleased Him.
The statement that Bhishma displeased God can be considered a joke.
 

KRN

Active member
Draupadi never asked for protection from anyone. All that she asked (and asked repeatedly) of everyone assembled in the Sabha is, whether Dharmaputra staked himself and lost before he staked her. And if yes, then whether the staking of her is valid. This is a legal question.
The paragraph is modified slightly above.
 

KRN

Active member
There are other glaring errors too in the article, but since this is the Chit-Chat section I will stop here.
 

naithru

Active member
thank you Shri KRN for clarifying, May be I was carried away by Shi Achyut Gopala Das comparison glorifying Shri Sita , and hence I wanted to share it. I shall read the original text.
excuse for my posting . it was amazing to think people act differently
 

KRN

Active member
thank you Shri KRN for clarifying, May be I was carried away by Shi Achyut Gopala Das comparison glorifying Shri Sita , and hence I wanted to share it. I shall read the original text.
excuse for my posting . it was amazing to think people act differently
When I did a google search for "THE BHISMA WAY or THE JATAYU WAY" I found several matches in the web, showing that this (misleading-)article must have been shared across several people. I hope that any future searches will lead to this thread, and to my rejoinder too!
 
I think Bhishma is wrongly depicted. The message that is conveyed is that there are limits into interfering with other persons business.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
This is a terribly wrong depiction of Bhisma !!

Bhisma is unparalleled in our scriptures, he was an astute statesman, a learned scholar / sage, caught in impossible situations. He sacrificed for his father and remained unmarried in,life, unheard of for Kshatriya princes in ancient times.

Now in history, there are innumerable Kings who never listened to his counsellors. Duryodhanan never listened to his own parents let alone Bhishma. So Bhisma remains helpless as the Kauravas descend into chaos and destruction. In the Draupadi vastraharanam, Bhisma could only counsel. He cannot single handledly declare war against the entire group of Kauravas - Duryodhanan, Dusshasanan, Karnan, etc..

Bhisma by refusing to kill any of the Pandavas garaunteed the victory for them and sacrificed his own life in the war !!

His life is one of sacrifice right through and to demean him by such silly comparison is terrible !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
From a historical perspective, my view is that the Draupadi vastraharanam ever happened. People who followed my posts know that winners always skew the history in their favour.

1. In ancient times, women never came in the kings court. that too married women. They were received with royal welcome and taken into the ladies quarter,

2. Duryodhanan despite his hatred to Pandavas was known as a great King and a follower of dharma. In the final war, it is Bheema who violates the rules of the fight and not Duryodhanan. That's why Balaraman is very upset with Bheema and fights with Lord Krishna.

3. Karnan was a great King and unparalleled in his love of dhanam and a strict followers of Dharmam. Now if he indulged in the Draupadi vastraharanam, he would not be hailed as a great follower of Dharmam !! He refuses to kill Pandavas even at the urging of his great friend and King Duryodhanan except for Arunjan due to his vows to Kunti.

4. In keralam, there is a temple for Duryodhanan, Bhisma, Drona, Karna and also Abhimanyu. Now why would they build a temple for Kauravas and Abhimanyu if the latter was tragically killed by the former ??

5. Many Dravidian folk tales in south talk highly of Karnan, and Duryodhanan. Both their friendship is celebrated.

6. Drona is a guru unparalleled in history with his knowledge on warfare and rules. It is inconceivable that he would allow the attack on Abhimanyu. Remember he was the commander at this stage in the war. Drona is hailed as a great guru. Now if he had allowed a young boy to die so tragically, he would have been condemned by one and all. But folk tales do not support it. In the case of Ekalavya both the Sanskrit scriptures and folk tales are equally critical of Drona favouring Arjunan.

Hence taking these into consideration, I don't believe both these two incidents are true. It was a war between 2 great kingdoms and in any war, one of them had to lose.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Remember, in the final battle, Duryodhanan fights all alone. He has lost all his brothers, close friend Karnan, and his entire army.

Despite that he does not violate the rules, on the other hand it is bheeman. Not to mention, Dharmarajan himself violates the rules of war to kill Drona, etc..
 

naithru

Active member
ok ok cool, my dear jaykay767, its his view, as the comparison was new, i shared it with you all, calm down. everyone has liberty to express. its brain storming thats all.
so many times we have been told that Shri Krishna is different from Shri Rama. Shri Krishna was God incarnate knew what he was doing.all unethical things and He has reason for it. when He saw his opponent was ruthless He knows how to win in their game.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
ok ok cool, my dear jaykay767, its his view, as the comparison was new, i shared it with you all, calm down. everyone has liberty to express. its brain storming thats all.
so many times we have been told that Shri Krishna is different from Shri Rama. Shri Krishna was God incarnate knew what he was doing.all unethical things and He has reason for it. when He saw his opponent was ruthless He knows how to win in their game.
It is the nature of this forum. Individual reacts the same way to any post they read, We are equal opportunity, offenders or defenders.
So continue with your brainstorming session, don't get discouraged by outbursts from other, just carry on.
It is a lonesome journey, some may join you for a few posts and then oppose you on some other post.

Actually, there are no "FRIEND" or "FOE" on a permanent basis.
 

naithru

Active member
ha ha ha very correct mr. Prasad
பட்டி மன்றம் போல் ஒருவரே
வெட்டியும் பேசுவார் ஒட்டியும் பேசுவார்
 
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