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Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

Iyest

Active member
Dear Usaiyer sir, there are two places in Chennai that I am aware of. Ramana Kendra in Mylapore and Ramanalayam in Chrompet. I don’t know whether they are still functioning so you will have to check. There used to be a Ramana-Krishnamurti centre but I think it closed few years ago. I have not been to any of them except once to the Chrompet place. I come to know of these places from others.
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
1632158021948.jpeg
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I follow Kabirdas, I have never heard of this poem.
It is beautiful and follows his style and philosophy very much.

Mystic SongsShare This Page
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Moko Kahan Dhundhere Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Teerath Mein, Na Moorat Mein Na Ekant Niwas Mein
Na Mandir Mein, Na Masjid Mein Na Kabe Kailas Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Mein Jap Mein, Na Mein Tap Mein Na Mein Barat Upaas Mein
Na Mein Kiriya Karm Mein Rehta Nahin Jog Sanyas Mein
Nahin Pran Mein Nahin Pind Mein Na Brahmand Akas Mein
Na Mein Prakuti Prawar Gufa Mein Nahin Swasan Ki Swans Mein
Khoji Hoye Turat Mil Jaoon Ik Pal Ki Talas Mein
Kahet Kabir Suno Bhai Sadho Mein To Hun Viswas Mein


mystic1_1.gif
mystic1_2.gif

Translation
Where do you search me? I am with you
Not in pilgrimage, nor in icons, Neither in solitudes
Not in temples, nor in mosques Neither in Kaba nor in Kailash
I am with you o man, I am with you
Not in prayers, nor in meditation, Neither in fasting
Not in yogic exercises, Neither in renunciation
Neither in the vital force nor in the body, Not even in the ethereal space
Neither in the womb of Nature, Not in the breath of the breath
Seek earnestly and discover, In but a moment of search
Says Kabir, Listen with care, Where your faith is, I am there.
My Understanding
In spite of the different approaches of all religious and philosophical teachings, it is very clear that the all-pervading, omniscient, omnipresent factor is finally God. Due to our customs, traditions, languages we only address Him by various names. Yet, it is also true that in spite of this awareness, we spend a lot of time in arguing about God and try to impose attributes.

Kabir noticed this centuries old phenomenon in his times also. And this great Master, in the above verse highlights the underlying principle that God is everywhere.

Kabir reveals in this verse the various search patterns adopted by mankind. And each one seems to be justifying his chosen method. Some say God will be realized through pilgrimages while some justify the idol worship. Some say He is up in the mountains while some believe that He is in places of worship. Some proclaim prayers and meditation the path, others believe realization through fasting. Many talk about yogic exercises (activity) and renunciation.

In this verse Kabir seems to be saying that God is NOT in any of these. However, this cannot be true. To my understanding, Kabir is saying that God is everywhere and therefore in all these too. However, his saying "No" simply means that we should apply our faith to One and follow it up sincerely. This will lead to instant realization of the divinity within us. However, if we "switch" our approach from one path to another, then we are simply conducting a sort of gymnastic. In his typical mystical ways, Kabir shows us the omniscience of God.


sorry for posting in this thread. This may not be the appropriate thread for this.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
I follow Kabirdas, I have never heard of this poem.
It is beautiful and follows his style and philosophy very much.

Mystic SongsShare This Page
Bookmark and Share
Moko Kahan Dhundhere Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Teerath Mein, Na Moorat Mein Na Ekant Niwas Mein
Na Mandir Mein, Na Masjid Mein Na Kabe Kailas Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Mein Jap Mein, Na Mein Tap Mein Na Mein Barat Upaas Mein
Na Mein Kiriya Karm Mein Rehta Nahin Jog Sanyas Mein
Nahin Pran Mein Nahin Pind Mein Na Brahmand Akas Mein
Na Mein Prakuti Prawar Gufa Mein Nahin Swasan Ki Swans Mein
Khoji Hoye Turat Mil Jaoon Ik Pal Ki Talas Mein
Kahet Kabir Suno Bhai Sadho Mein To Hun Viswas Mein


mystic1_1.gif
mystic1_2.gif

Translation
Where do you search me? I am with you
Not in pilgrimage, nor in icons, Neither in solitudes
Not in temples, nor in mosques Neither in Kaba nor in Kailash
I am with you o man, I am with you
Not in prayers, nor in meditation, Neither in fasting
Not in yogic exercises, Neither in renunciation
Neither in the vital force nor in the body, Not even in the ethereal space
Neither in the womb of Nature, Not in the breath of the breath
Seek earnestly and discover, In but a moment of search
Says Kabir, Listen with care, Where your faith is, I am there.
My Understanding
In spite of the different approaches of all religious and philosophical teachings, it is very clear that the all-pervading, omniscient, omnipresent factor is finally God. Due to our customs, traditions, languages we only address Him by various names. Yet, it is also true that in spite of this awareness, we spend a lot of time in arguing about God and try to impose attributes.

Kabir noticed this centuries old phenomenon in his times also. And this great Master, in the above verse highlights the underlying principle that God is everywhere.

Kabir reveals in this verse the various search patterns adopted by mankind. And each one seems to be justifying his chosen method. Some say God will be realized through pilgrimages while some justify the idol worship. Some say He is up in the mountains while some believe that He is in places of worship. Some proclaim prayers and meditation the path, others believe realization through fasting. Many talk about yogic exercises (activity) and renunciation.

In this verse Kabir seems to be saying that God is NOT in any of these. However, this cannot be true. To my understanding, Kabir is saying that God is everywhere and therefore in all these too. However, his saying "No" simply means that we should apply our faith to One and follow it up sincerely. This will lead to instant realization of the divinity within us. However, if we "switch" our approach from one path to another, then we are simply conducting a sort of gymnastic. In his typical mystical ways, Kabir shows us the omniscience of God.


sorry for posting in this thread. This may not be the appropriate thread for this.
Dear Prasad ji,
In the version Sooryagayatri is singing they have replaced Kaabe with Kaashi.
Well, that changed the whole meaning cos Kabir das was saying God is neither at Ka'ba nor Kailash.
If we replace Ka'ba with Kaashi that would seem as if Kabir das was just denying existence of God only in Hinduism..so best we still stick to the original.

Here is another version..it kept to the original but shorter.



I guess its appropriate to post it cos it does jive with Ramana Maharishi's words.
 

Iyest

Active member
The snake must bite its own tail.


WITNESSING IS NOT VICHARA - VICHARA IS THE FINAL DOOR

So, as respects Bhagavan's method of remaining as Subjective Consciousness, I am supposed to witness without entertaining the notion that I am witnessing - is that right?

B.: Who is that one who remains as Subjective Consciousness? Is Subjective Consciousness proclaiming that he is going to remain as Subjective Consciousness? You see the absurdity of it.

So, your task is not to remain as Subjective Consciousness; your task is to keep yourself out of the way so that Subjective Consciousness remains merely as Itself without getting impeded by you.

As for witnessing, there is nothing to witness. IT IS. Simple Being.

When ideas create modifications in consciousness, which is the essence or substance of the mind, another idea made of the same substance is used as a tool with which to crush (annihilate) all other ideas; finally, this tool is also destroyed. That is why the example of the stick used to stir the burning funeral pyre is furnished.

Q.: So merely watching (observing) consciousness with a placid, thought-free mind is not a sadhana that suffices to destroy the mind and bestow Realization?

B.: If the aspirant is unremittingly sincere in its pursuit, the practice that you mention will in due course by itself cause sufficient introversion of mind to empower (facilitate) the mind to become ready for successfully investigating 'Who am I?'. However, it is erroneous to imagine that the two practices are one and the same, or even similar.

Q.: But they both aim at ensuring that the sadhaka remains attending to mere consciousness; how can they be distinct from each other?

B.: The act of attending to pure Subjective Consciousness alone still involves that one who undertakes such Sadhana. WHO IS HE?

Q.: But there is also that one who investigates 'Who am I?'.

B.: He is both the subject and object of his investigation.

That is why in the end, everybody must come only through this gate before reaching the citadel of the Heart. Who am I? is the only Sadhana which is such that the one making it is the same as the one in relation to whom it is made.

The snake must bite its own tail. Otherwise, he will not die. Neophytes who complain that 'Who am I?' is not working are given the suggestion that they should watch the thought 'I', or that they should remain attending to Subjective Consciousness alone. Still less mature souls are told to repeat 'I', 'I' mentally, together with simultaneously concentrating on the sense of personality associated with 'I', that is to say with the mental concept of 'myself'. Those who are not able to do even this should do pranayama, japa, moorthy-dhyana, or hatha-yoga. None of these practices, however, could possibly serve as a substitute for vichara, nor is it meaningful to confuse any of them with vichara or to imagine any of them to be the same as vichara.



Vichara is the final door. The 'I' attends to himself, not to his Self. The ego attends to the ego and to nothing else; that is vichara. Attending to Subjective Consciousness, while it is a method having its beneficial use, is certainly NOT the same as vichara.



- Aham Sphurana
 

usaiyer

Active member
KRSji,
Namaskar.
I found some place in chennai for Baghavan Ramana's satsangh.
What about US? Are such Satsangs popular there?
The Apple CEO seemed to have taken keen interest in Kriya Yoga ,which perhaps was propagated by Yogi Yogananda.
Prior to that Rajneesh 'sTM was making waves in California and elsewhere.
Now Sadguru from a southern suburb is making good in US.

Om Namo Bagahvate SrI Ramanaya!!
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
KRSji,
Namaskar.
I found some place in chennai for Baghavan Ramana's satsangh.
What about US? Are such Satsangs popular there?
The Apple CEO seemed to have taken keen interest in Kriya Yoga ,which perhaps was propagated by Yogi Yogananda.
Prior to that Rajneesh 'sTM was making waves in California and elsewhere.
Now Sadguru from a southern suburb is making good in US.

Om Namo Bagahvate SrI Ramanaya!!
Sri usaiyer sir,

I am glad you found the Satsang. There are so many Satsangs here in the USA, that are quite popular. You find them in all major cities.

Yes, when we say there are various ways to God, what we mean is that each of our mind, because of our Vasanas, have different frequencies in terms of likes and dislikes. So, the need for all different stripes of Gurus. If one is qualified as a Mumukshu, the most important thing, in my opinion and in my learning, is that one totally submits to one’s Guru’s teaching and perform whatever Sadhana that Guru prescribes.
 

usaiyer

Active member
KRSsir,
Namaskar,
Thank you. I have only located a Satsang ,but yet to resume my activities. There in I will try for a guru
In US there are more satsangs in West ,not so much in east
and also not in Canada.
Do the temples take initiative for Satsang there. I really don't know.
What is the role of law of karma in one's life IN addition to
huia vasanas and gunas.
I s mind a separate entity or part of Self?
someone was mentioning of merging of the mind with the self? what does this mean?
Om Namo Baghavte Shri Ramanaya!!
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
Sri usaiyer sir,

There are many Satsangs in the US, from the east coast to the west coast and many places in between. You can Google them, if interested.

I used the word ‘Vasanas’ only to describe one’s latent tendencies that can clearly be observed. My knowledge about it’s connection to past lives is only theoretical, albeit from venerable sources like the Vedas, Gurus etc.

My Vasanas are such that, I have to convince myself about a theory, if I can, before fully understanding it as valid. This is why I have learnt Vedic Astrology from a very young age and pursued the practice of it. Along the way, I am convinced that it works, because of my experiences with it.

So, Karma theory etc. remain only just that, theories that are unproven to my mind. I value them as teachings from my forefathers. Other than that they have no value as far as I am concerned. More important to me is to practice what Bhagawan has prescribed, because it is within the purview of testing. And I am convinced that so far it is working. If there is a future life, I only pray to the Almighty to make me continue this practice.

Regarding your question about the mind and the self, this is what Bhagawan said:

1632605208117.jpeg
 

Iyest

Active member
'WHO IS PRACTICING? TRUE SADHANA IS NON-DOING



Q.: I still want to practice the remain-as-subjective-consciousness method as it seems to be a lot easier and less abstract for me in comparison with Atma-vichara.

B.: Alright. But it is necessary to abandon the idea that there is an "I" that is practicing this maintenance of subjective awareness as a sadhana in order to Realize. Then alone will a positive result follow.

The idea that you are witnessing Subjective Consciousness is an impediment to effortless abidance or inherence in that state in which Subjective Consciousness remains merely as Itself. As and when you discover such notions lurking within the mind, ask yourself, 'Who is the one that imagines that he is witnessing Subjective Consciousness?'.

Not the tiniest vritti or idea must lie latent in this Subjective Consciousness which remains merely as Itself without spilling over into the Realm of thought; only then will it blossom into permanent Sphurana. Thus, give up the idea that you are a sadhaka trying to Realize. Then the Beyond will take care of you and all will be well. It is only by giving up useless accretions that Realization is made possible, not by acquiring new vrittis or ideas or by practicing meditation, yoga, etc.. Let go of everything and only the Self will remain.

Q.: Is meditation not useful?

B.: What do you meditate on?

Q.: On the Aham-vritti, so that on close scrutiny, I shall discover the truth that it is non-existent and so realize the Self.

B.: [smiling] And who is going to make that discovery?

Q.: We have come back to 'Who am I?'.

B.: Exactly. People are so used to associating with objects on the level of the mind that they are always looking to do something. Can more mental-doing reveal the Self? It can only make obscuration of the Self more and more dense. True sadhana is not doing [non-doing] anything with the mind. That is the import of the advice Summa Iru. Not all people can appreciate this kind of advice. They think sadhana means they should do something. If I explain to them the truth they will become upset and think, "Swami seems to think I am unfit for sadhana...". So when someone comes here and says he is going to practice this and that, I say "Very good!". We have no right to demoralize or discourage anyone.



- Aham Sphurana
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
'WHO IS PRACTICING? TRUE SADHANA IS NON-DOING



Q.: I still want to practice the remain-as-subjective-consciousness method as it seems to be a lot easier and less abstract for me in comparison with Atma-vichara.

B.: Alright. But it is necessary to abandon the idea that there is an "I" that is practicing this maintenance of subjective awareness as a sadhana in order to Realize. Then alone will a positive result follow.

The idea that you are witnessing Subjective Consciousness is an impediment to effortless abidance or inherence in that state in which Subjective Consciousness remains merely as Itself. As and when you discover such notions lurking within the mind, ask yourself, 'Who is the one that imagines that he is witnessing Subjective Consciousness?'.

Not the tiniest vritti or idea must lie latent in this Subjective Consciousness which remains merely as Itself without spilling over into the Realm of thought; only then will it blossom into permanent Sphurana. Thus, give up the idea that you are a sadhaka trying to Realize. Then the Beyond will take care of you and all will be well. It is only by giving up useless accretions that Realization is made possible, not by acquiring new vrittis or ideas or by practicing meditation, yoga, etc.. Let go of everything and only the Self will remain.

Q.: Is meditation not useful?

B.: What do you meditate on?

Q.: On the Aham-vritti, so that on close scrutiny, I shall discover the truth that it is non-existent and so realize the Self.

B.: [smiling] And who is going to make that discovery?

Q.: We have come back to 'Who am I?'.

B.: Exactly. People are so used to associating with objects on the level of the mind that they are always looking to do something. Can more mental-doing reveal the Self? It can only make obscuration of the Self more and more dense. True sadhana is not doing [non-doing] anything with the mind. That is the import of the advice Summa Iru. Not all people can appreciate this kind of advice. They think sadhana means they should do something. If I explain to them the truth they will become upset and think, "Swami seems to think I am unfit for sadhana...". So when someone comes here and says he is going to practice this and that, I say "Very good!". We have no right to demoralize or discourage anyone.



- Aham Sphurana
Summary:
Be and it is! ( Kun fayakun)
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
1633739856101.jpeg

The jnani weeps with the weeping, laughs with the laughing, plays with the playful, sings with those who sing, keeping time to the song. What does he lose? His presence is like a pure, transparent mirror. It reflects the image exactly as it is. But the jnani, who is only a mirror, is unaffected by actions.

(Be As You Are )
 

Iyest

Active member
All scriptures without exception proclaim that for attaining salvation, the mind should be subdued. And once one knows that control of the mind is their final aim, it is futile to make an interminable study of them. What is required for such control is actual enquiry into oneself by self-interrogation-"Who am I? How can this enquiry in quest of the Self be made by means of a studying of the scriptures?"
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
To control the mind, first outside source of noise (sound, light and sensation) have to be eliminated or minimized. I was wondering how can we do it. Closing the eyes can shut the light entering our brain through the eyes, what about sound and heat/cold sensing.?

Mindfulness of controlling the body and the breathing is the first step. Then meditation comes only concentrating on the breathing. A very difficult task. Thus, following Swami Chinmayanadha ( only this aspect), shout in a high pitch Om or any monosyllable such as one, me, he etc., and every time you shout again reduce the voice and finally only in mind. It will take about 15 days before you can feel silence for a few seconds. After about 48 days (one Mandalam) you can be still without hearing anything. Deep breathing and mindfulness slowly will relax the body and the temperature etc., will not affect you.

I did not believe in this, yet finally when I tried and succeeded now, I do every day before I sleep and the first thing in the morning. That does not mean I have “self realization”. Rather a few minutes of feeling nothing but peace.

If you look at your daily routine, you act as a different person with different other person based on the situation. Then- you are a father, brother, husband, son, grand father, officer, worker, citizen… endless roles and which one of the role is you actual role? Every thing you go through is for a short duration, thus while your physical body is the same(unless neurological changes also take place), which role is “aham- me”? So, Maya is the pretension of “ I am” as so and so, is momentary. Rest is assumed. Since semantics changes from context to context of “I am” that is Maya, but you are the same Atma – Bagavat Geetha 1-6: samāne vṛkṣe puruṣo nimagno

'nīśayā śocati muhyamānaḥ juṣṭaṁ yadā paśyaty anyam īśam asya mahimānam iti vīta-śokaḥ
Within self, Atma goes through the experience like a bird eating the fruits of the tree but paramatma which both the tree and as a witness just looks at the Atma. When a self sees as part of the same Paramatma one experiences selflessness. A very difficult task.
लक्शणम् मनसः ञानस्य अभावः भाव एव वा। सति ही आत्मा इन्दिर्य अर्थानाम् सन्निकर्षण एव वर्तते ।। Mind is defined as: the entity which, even on contact with the self. Sense organs and sense objects is responsible for production or otherwise of knowledge by it’s attending or non-attending respectively. Subtleness and oneness are known as two qualities of the mind.
How the Rshis gave the semantic interpretation at their time , due to only via hearing and reciting might have gone through changes when the written system evolved. Thus, what we have today may or many not be the original texts and original meaning. This leads different Gurus to say the same thing differently though they may mean the same.
That may one reason that all the saints do not say the same thing though they might have meant the same thing. Thus we have many Gurus but no homogeneous shishyas on the level field. Only self experience can make one feel and understand the “self”. Those who wants to read Vedas in English here is a site:
https://learnveda.in/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Rigved-Agniveer-vol1.pdf
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: B’s idea of happiness?
B: Happiness is Itself alone. Ideas about it are unhappiness.

Q: B’s idea of misery?
B: The thought manufacturing faculty, which styles itself ‘I’.

Q: The greatest Love of B’s life?
B: Arunachala the Formless One.

Q: The incumbent state of B’s mind?
B: The state of no mind.


- Aham Sphurana, page 523
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Those were based on his experience, but he did not show step-by-step to reach the same conclusion. In otherwards, what is said is for those who had the intuition and realization by themseleves like a scientist but can not be understood by a common man. All or temples, retituals etc., were created for a common man to go through the first step and they stop there. All Mahans with self realization did not sit and create a step-by-step procudure or algorithm for a very few dedicated individual to go throgh the path. Oh, Yoga , meditation... are there for one to follow are just dogma. Even his thoughts he expressed had been manufactured by his faculty without saying "I". But he has realized the happiness but his followers are reciting his dogma without becoming another Bagwan. Now, this is not condeming the discussion, but self realization comes through only a very few rare people.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Here is another example that even a so called Guru could not control his emotion:

Mahant Narendra Giri, the deceased president of Akhil Bhartiya Akhara Parishad, was under such 'grave mental trauma' from his estranged disciple Anand Giri, priest Adhya Prasad Tiwari and his son Sandeep Tiwari that he ended his life to 'avoid defamation and insult' in the eyes of society, the Central Bureau of Investigation has said in its charge sheet.
So, Ramana, Shankara, Ramanuja, Buddha etc., were one in trillion human beings. What an ordinary guy or girl(man or woman) is a systamatic way way to reach the same spiritual position like Ramana. It is not easy by just saying, renounce, search within yourself etc. It needs two things - the right patram- karta and the right intuitive knowledge. Not an easy thing and leanred by reading books etc.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Those were based on his experience, but he did not show step-by-step to reach the same conclusion. In otherwards, what is said is for those who had the intuition and realization by themseleves like a scientist but can not be understood by a common man. All or temples, retituals etc., were created for a common man to go through the first step and they stop there. All Mahans with self realization did not sit and create a step-by-step procudure or algorithm for a very few dedicated individual to go throgh the path. Oh, Yoga , meditation... are there for one to follow are just dogma. Even his thoughts he expressed had been manufactured by his faculty without saying "I". But he has realized the happiness but his followers are reciting his dogma without becoming another Bagwan. Now, this is not condeming the discussion, but self realization comes through only a very few rare people.
Why do you feel he did NOT show step by step to reach the same conclusion and all these can not be understood by common man?

There is something called surrender and UPANISHAD.
Upanishad means sitting near.
So you either sit near to God in your heart and pray to Him or you sit near a Guru and listen with your heart and not with your mind.

All those who sat "near" Ramana Maharishi would have been "tuned" by his frequency and some amount of inner engineering would have taken place in accordance to their karmic capability.

There is a verse in the Quran that states:

"He sends water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The esoteric meaning of this is whatever knowledge sent down to a person is in accordance with his capacity to perceive it.

So we do know each person differs.
Two people sitting in front of the same Guru might subtly imbibe different measures of clarity and knowledge.

But the prerequisite is surrender ..without that nothing works.
Those who prefer a Guru surrender to a Guru.
Those who prefer God surrender to God.
Both lead to inner engineering.

One might ask "since Ramana Maharishi is no more around so one cant physically sit near him..well one can visit his ashram because the frequency of realized souls still pervade a place even though they have left the place physically and one may ask..what about those who cant visit the ashram?..well, one can read the books with the concept of surrender to Ramana Maharishi and patiently wait for the water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The greatest stumbling block in surrender is the over analytical mind.
In fact the common man might actually grasp jnaana faster than a scientific mind which just wont shut down its intellectualization.
Jnana yoga is neither analysis nor is it blind faith.
It is about being a receptacle to allow information from God or Guru to download into our heart.

To be in the receptacle state isnt easy...takes time and perserverance , hence we find in the Gita "śhraddhāvān labhate jñānaṁ"

One needs to be ready to see all our pre conceived notions break down like a town invaded by a King which demolishes and destroys all the town's high ranking people and establishes a new reign.

A verse in the Quran states "Indeed kings - when they enter a city, they ruin it and render the honored of its people humbled. And thus do they do"

The esoteric meaning is that when Divine knowledge invades our system, it breaks down all pre conceived mind based knowledge and humbles our pride and ego and by this a new reign of divine knowledge rules us.


Therefore do NOT feel that Ramana Maharishi did not spell out everything for all those who surrendered to him.
Rain drops of his knowledge would have fallen on those who surrendered to him in ways we might not understand yet.
 
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