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Best way to end bhramin oppression

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goundamani

Active member
Folks,

I think there is only one way to destroy oppression on bhramins,oppression on dalits and all caste based atrocities.That is castes should be destroyed.All hindus should become one family,one caste.Except this there isnt any way in which bhramin oppression or dalit oppression will end.

Imagine a golden world where dalit girl becomes daughter-in-law of a bhramin house and a devar boy becomes son-in-law in a nadar house?If this happens all these castes will unite and nobody will oppress anybody,anymore.

We should encourage intercaste marriages and love marriages to make this golden world possible.

Without killing castes,caste based atrocities will never end.For the current malaise,what is needed is surgery,not bandage.Castes have destroyed our country and religion.Only we the youth can save our country and religion.
 
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ceetharam

Guest
goundamani said:
Folks,

..........That is castes should be destroyed.All hindus should become one family,one caste...................

Your suggestion will be well taken . All hindus, xians and muslims will become one caste and continue to oppress brahmins.
 
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goundamani

Active member
ceetharam said:
Your suggestion will be well taken . All hindus, xians and muslims will become one caste and continue to oppress brahmins.

I dont understand what you say.What is meant by all hindus will oppress bhramins?Arent brahmins hindus?

I am telling a best way to end caste based oppression.Love marriages and intercaste marriages are the best methods to destroy casteism and caste based oppression.

I dont see any use in maintaining caste identities and fighting with each other.I welcome caste associations because that gives an opportunity for people who are oppressed on the basis of their caste to fight against injustice.But this is like taking medicines to fight disease.The long term solution is to lead a healthy life style,not to perpetually take medicines.

As long as castes are maintained the injustice and insult which lower castes feel will not go away.How to remove insults which are thrown on them by birth?The only way to remove this is to kill castes.Then nobody will be called as sakkili,pallan,paraiyan,ambattan,thotti,bangki etc.

I dont think there is any other option to save hinduism and our country.
 
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goundamani

Active member
If anybody believes that castes should still be maintained I request them to read this article.

Why do I say that castes should go away?That is because I love my religion.I want hinduism to survive.We have reached a stage where either castes can survive or hinduism can survive.Our generation has to take a decision as of which one is more important.

Our elders lived and breathed caste.They made this world a horrible place.(When I say our elders I mean all hindus and not any particular caste).Should we youngsters not change this world?Should we repeat the mistakes done by our ancestors?

What do we gain by maintaining castes?Who benefits by it?Mahakavi bharathi did bhrammopadesam to a panjama.He is a bhramin by birth,but he threw away his caste.He said "jathikal illaiyadi pappa".Should we not follow his example?
 
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tri_vikrama

Guest
it is...questionaire yet to be answered????

It is easy too say, but not practicable. I am not being racist, but there are so many differences in practices & norms between brahmins and non brahmins; diet, culture, trade...etc. It may puzzle up in a rare occasions but not perpectual. Nevertheless time will be a good solution would solve the problem, soon or later it will erode or deteriorate...
 
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KAUNDINYA

Guest
Hi Goundamani! Intercaste marriages need not be a bee in your bonnet because already love-marriages are taking place everywhere. A close male relative of mine fell in love with & married a lady, whose farher is a Vellala Mudaliar & mother a Telugu-speaking Naidu, way back in 1978. Now they have 2 sons of marriageable age. Their first son is betrothed to a girl whose father is an Iyengar & mother a Viswakarma (Achari). Of course this marriage which is going to take place in a couple of months is an arranged one. The marriage was arranged through the internet. A distant relative of mine has married actor Sivaji Ganesan's foster daughter ("VALARPPU MAGAL"). I know a Palghat Brahmin who has married an ADI DRAVIDA girl.
So, intercaste marriages are very common today. I think in another 50 or 100 years, T.N. will be casteless. So, you need not worry on that score.
 

rxrajamo

Active member
Going by what is happening in Tamilnadu, I feel that Brahmins are not just being oppressed but being persecuted. That being said, a castless society is good for all. In fact, the whole humankind acting as one entity sans any religious/national or cultural identity, is more desirable. But how practicable are these notions ?

Let us descend down from these lofty ideals and contemplate reality. It is a fact that the society is divided based on color, caste, religion etc and it is also a fact that in TamilNadu, Brahmins as a community are oppressed, nay abhorred. The need of the hour is to get together and help our community and not dwell on utopian dreams.

Let us please focus our efforts on how best to help our community.




goundamani said:
I dont understand what you say.What is meant by all hindus will oppress bhramins?Arent brahmins hindus?

I am telling a best way to end caste based oppression.Love marriages and intercaste marriages are the best methods to destroy casteism and caste based oppression.

I dont see any use in maintaining caste identities and fighting with each other.I welcome caste associations because that gives an opportunity for people who are oppressed on the basis of their caste to fight against injustice.But this is like taking medicines to fight disease.The long term solution is to lead a healthy life style,not to perpetually take medicines.

As long as castes are maintained the injustice and insult which lower castes feel will not go away.How to remove insults which are thrown on them by birth?The only way to remove this is to kill castes.Then nobody will be called as sakkili,pallan,paraiyan,ambattan,thotti,bangki etc.

I dont think there is any other option to save hinduism and our country.
 
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goundamani

Active member
Dear Trivikrama,

I hope that kaundainyas posting will be a good answer to your questions.It wont be difficult for two different hindu castes to adjust to each other and intermingle.It would even result in each caste getting some good habits and practices from the other caste.For example if a vaiysa and ksathriya family intermingles the two families can share vaisya acumen and ksathriya valor.

Dear Rxrajamo

what I said is the ideal solution in long run.In short run organizing and forming communities will work.In long run that is not a solution.In the long run castes should be destroyed and our religion should be saved.entire humanity merging as a single entity is a great ideal.Once we attain this intercaste unity,we can attain intrahuman unity.

The one and only religion which can unite entire humanity is secularism and democracy.:plane:Defenitely secular hindus ,secular muslims and secular christians can live in peace.
 
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MrJustice

Guest
Please tell me why is it that everyone presupposes that Brahmins need to remove themselves from their caste or community in order for the whole state to progress?
Cant we remain a community and still contribute ?
What is this bogus attempt at destroying the fabric of Brahmin life?

We can be true to ourselves and follow our customs without assimilating completely, our identity is our community.
This is exactly the problem in TN, people assume that the WHOLE state can progress ONLY if Brahmins' as a community are destroyed!
This is silly to begin with, and just another attempt at passing the buck of blame.Non brahmins are upset over what Brahmins did to them 100 years ago, but forget what Muslims and Christians did to them hundreds of years before that, and continue to do so till this day.
But still the Brahmins are to blame !

 
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goundamani

Active member
Dear Mr.Justice,

I am not saying "only bhramins should remove their castes".Everybody says "the entire caste system should be done away with".

As long as castes remain we cannot even progress by an inch.And the humiliation and insult felt by the lower classes will never heal or disappear.For example devar community can proudly retain their caste identity.But what pride and glory will be there for chamar,thotti,bangi community to retain their caste identities?As long as castes remain they will be called as sakkilis and paraiyans by other hindus.How to remove this humiliation and suffering?The only option they have is either to convert or to live in an egalitarian casteless hindu society.

Entire hindu community should become one.Caste system should be done away with perpetually.
 
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MrJustice

Guest
goundamani said:
Dear Mr.Justice,

I am not saying "only bhramins should remove their castes".Everybody says "the entire caste system should be done away with".

As long as castes remain we cannot even progress by an inch.And the humiliation and insult felt by the lower classes will never heal or disappear.For example devar community can proudly retain their caste identity.But what pride and glory will be there for chamar,thotti,bangi community to retain their caste identities?As long as castes remain they will be called as sakkilis and paraiyans by other hindus.How to remove this humiliation and suffering?The only option they have is either to convert or to live in an egalitarian casteless hindu society.

Entire hindu community should become one.Caste system should be done away with perpetually.

I respectfully disagree, our diversity is our culture, our richness and our identity.
You are just repeating what is being passed on as a fact, vis a vis caste is the foundation for all ills of our current society, whereas in reality at least with respect to the Brahmins so long as they mind their own business , raise their families and contribute towards to the well being of the nation whats wrong? Are people poor because Brahmin priests pray in Sanskrit in temples? Are lower castes illiterate because Brahmins painstakingly get admissions to higher schools of education?
This line of argumentation lacks congruence.
For starters maybe the DMK and their cronies should cease their attacks on our community, it seems to be fashionable to bash Brahmins in order to get votes.Let this stop.
Lets face it, our nation is diverse and this is wealth of sorts.We can make modifications but need not completely dismantle our traditions.
The past is past, let it be forgotten and lets look forward, as ive said, many of the Dravidian parties use the past to taunt and persecute us now, but where is the blame being heaped on Muslims or Christians. This is hypocrisy as clear as day.
Dravidian parties' need to change their tact, this will suffice in elevating the poor of our state.
 
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goundamani

Active member
Dear Mr.Justice,

Every culture should learn to appreciate diversity.I perfectly agree with you on this aspect.However diversity is different from inequality.A society can accept diversity,but not inequality.

As you said there is no point in looking back at the past and saying X or Y is responsible.But at the same time the mistakes of past should not be repeated in present or future.Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

I agree that the stupid and mindless bhramin bashing should end.How to end it?I dont see any other way other than what i said earlier.Destroy castes.

As long as people called as dalits exist they will be oppressed.However egalitarian a society becomes the insult which was thrown on them by manudharma will remain on them and their generations till their death.As long as castes exist terms like sandala,panjama and sudhra will exist.

As long as segments called as BC's,FC's,dalits exist the current problems like caste wars,reservation fights and conversions all will remain.We cannot prevent dalits from converting unless we remove castes.Many educated and rich dalits convert to christianity because they are ashmed to say that they belong to ambattan,thotti and chamar castes.Instead they convert to christianity and say "we are christians".

Remember ambedhkar?He said "I was born as a hindu,but I will not die as a hindu" and converted to buddhism.Nadars (who are dalits) convert in huge numbers to christianity and because of this the demography of south tamilnadu has changed.In kerala theeyar,pulaiyar and eezava communities have converted into muslims in huge numbers.Thankfully narayanaguru appeared and created a new religion and many eezavas in kerala converted to it instead of islam.Swami vaikundar appeared in kanyakumari and converted nadars to aiya vazi,instead of christianity.Both aiya vazi and narayanagurus sect both reject casteism and offered a way of esacpe to dalits.

But dont we see a trend here?dalits dont want to remain dalits.They want a casteless religion.

I request all my brethren.Please kill castes.Else our religion will forever be doomed.
 
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MrJustice

Guest
Killing or destroying castes is not a solution, definitely not a realistic one, maybe one that will satisfy the hungry masses looking for an outlet for their anger.
Let me explain with some historic precedents,the Jews for e.g you have the Ashkenazi and the Sephardi, both of them were routinely blamed throughout antiquity for the ills of the lands they lived in just like Brahmins are now.So much so that pogroms and routine massacres were common daily occurences, but what helped them survive throughout was the sense of survival imbibed in their identity as Ashkenazi or Sephardi.It gave them the will to survive even the most vicious pogrom in the history of the modern world.
In India if we were to destroy castes, then something else will naturally take its place. It is quite a well known fact that though lower castes convert to Christianity in droves they are still technically backward and in need of reservation which in turn illustrates the failure in the switch inherently.

There is no escaping caste for at least another 100 years, but
why should we as Brahmins dilute our sub culture , our traditions when the harsh social and political climate that exists in Tamil Nadu will just envelop our people that much quickly, why should we give them a chance to destroy us completely?

This is what the Dravidian parties want, destruction of the Brahmin peoples.
I for one accept that caste is fading, but what im interesting in is not destroying the fabric of our culture which has stood the test of time, for well over 2000 years just because some DMK moron wants to win an election!

Most importantly, let me reiterate, caste will just be replaced with another form of social stratification in the near future. It is inevitable.
 
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goundamani

Active member
Dear Mr.Justice,

I would rather say that jews succeeded only because they put forth their jewish identity first rather than any tribal identity.Jews stood as a single entity and are reaping its benefits.Muslims stand divided as sunni,shia,druze,palestine,kurd and fight with each other.In Iraq sunnis kill shites and so on.

I am not talking about destruction of castes to satisfy DMK.I am talking about survival of our religion against the onslaught of conversions and more than that,to save dalits.

Castes will go away in rich urban elite within a decade or so,but as you rightly pointed out,it might take another 100 years or so for middle class to remove castes.I hope that globalization speeds up the death of this casteism.:pray:

But in another 100 years we might lose more than three fourths of dalits from our fold.Thats my main worry.

Casteism,child marriage,female infanticide,polygamy all these are bad elements in tamil culture.They should be annihilated asap.
 

rxrajamo

Active member
Goundamani

Abolition of castes is a very noble and ideal notion. But it requires buy-in from all castes. Brahmins have always been in the fore front of fighting against caste inequality. Many a time it was a Brahmin, not other castes who supported the Dalits.

You mentioned Ambedkar. It was a Brahmin teacher who saw the spark in him, guided him and changed his name from "Sakpal" to Ambedkar. It was a Brahmin lady (Savita) who became Ambedkar's second wife. It was another Brahmin "Madurai Vaidyanatha Iyer" who led the Dalits into the Madurai Meenakshi temple. We can go on and on. But the point is Brahmins alone cannot do that.

Is it Brahmins who are not allowing elections to be held in Papparapatti & Keerapatti elections ? Is it Brahmins who prevent Dalits from participating in the Kandadevi Temple festival ?

Have these resulted in bashing of those communities responsible for these ?
Nope. Does any political party in TamilNadu talk about these ? Nope. Brahmin bashing in TamilNadu happens because they need a scapegoat and we are the "elichavayans". We are not even organized as a community. It has nothing to do with the persecution of Dalits.

The immediate need now is survival. If we organize ourselves and atleast murmur a protest, the Brahmin bashing will reduce if not stop. Only then we can survive as a community. Then we can all surely work towards a casteless society.

Rxrajamo

goundamani said:
Dear Mr.Justice,

Every culture should learn to appreciate diversity.I perfectly agree with you on this aspect.However diversity is different from inequality.A society can accept diversity,but not inequality.

As you said there is no point in looking back at the past and saying X or Y is responsible.But at the same time the mistakes of past should not be repeated in present or future.Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

I agree that the stupid and mindless bhramin bashing should end.How to end it?I dont see any other way other than what i said earlier.Destroy castes.

As long as people called as dalits exist they will be oppressed.However egalitarian a society becomes the insult which was thrown on them by manudharma will remain on them and their generations till their death.As long as castes exist terms like sandala,panjama and sudhra will exist.

As long as segments called as BC's,FC's,dalits exist the current problems like caste wars,reservation fights and conversions all will remain.We cannot prevent dalits from converting unless we remove castes.Many educated and rich dalits convert to christianity because they are ashmed to say that they belong to ambattan,thotti and chamar castes.Instead they convert to christianity and say "we are christians".

Remember ambedhkar?He said "I was born as a hindu,but I will not die as a hindu" and converted to buddhism.Nadars (who are dalits) convert in huge numbers to christianity and because of this the demography of south tamilnadu has changed.In kerala theeyar,pulaiyar and eezava communities have converted into muslims in huge numbers.Thankfully narayanaguru appeared and created a new religion and many eezavas in kerala converted to it instead of islam.Swami vaikundar appeared in kanyakumari and converted nadars to aiya vazi,instead of christianity.Both aiya vazi and narayanagurus sect both reject casteism and offered a way of esacpe to dalits.

But dont we see a trend here?dalits dont want to remain dalits.They want a casteless religion.

I request all my brethren.Please kill castes.Else our religion will forever be doomed.
 
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goundamani

Active member
You are right RXRAJAMO.While destroying castes remain a noble idea,the immediate task of fighting for survival of a caste should not be sacrificed for that noble objective.

My fear is that the current trend in the country to victimize bhramins and to play caste based politics will result in upholding varnashrama,instead if destroying it.Nowadays people become more casteist and start caste based parties in the name of destroying castes.
 

whisper

Active member
Hi All,
I had opportunite to saw some off articles in this forum abt inter caste marriage.

First Mr goundamani told that inter caste marriage is good to destroying castes. No one want to stop if some one want to married some other caste. Even the central govt is also supporting it by giving 50000 as incentive.

All the people who say this are giving a replay they are doing this to save our Hindu religion. Here i want to make a point.

When hindu religion was born Brahmin community also there with other community's. our community was there when our religion went to good and
bad times. Also the other community went good and bad times. But they never want to destroy there community by inter caste marriage. Its like put blame on some one for there inaction.If some one form our community want inter caste marriage is good for whole community

I can rember some body told me that

Non Brahmins only insult and abuse brahmins. BUT

Brahmins destroy brahmins

holds good.
 
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MrJustice

Guest
Inter-caste marriage percentages are really increasing, sadly diluting our Brahmin pool.
The blatant hypocrisy in India will accept Parsis endogamy, even Muslim Shia/Sunni endogamy, but the solution for everything is if Brahmins become exogamous.
Sorry but destroying castes will do nothing to eliminate Brahmin persecution this "solution" is just popular because this is what the masses salivate on.

There are 2 solutions, one my previous mention of floating a political party, the second if Brahmins leave TN to better more accepting places.
 
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goundamani

Active member
Friends,

I wrote against caste system,not the people who follow castes.When I said intercaste marriage,I meant all castes and not just bhramins.I think it will be really good for our religion if the people who follow our religion unite as a single caste.

The difference between hindu castes and islamic sects/christian sects is that people can convert from one sect to another without any problem.If a catholic wants to convert to a protestant all he needs to do is to get rebaptized.But in caste system you dont have that opportunity.It comes by birth and stays till death.

As I said earlier caste based politics in India isnt ending caste system.It has created new castes and new varnas.Manu created 4 varnas.Our constitution also created 4 varnas,SC/MBC/BC/FC.So instead of putting a full stop to varnashrama we will have new castes and new varnas.Hmm....
 

kudumi

Active member
Enna Goundarayya...
Intercaste marriages alone will not eliminate caste. They will rather create a new caste.
If caste has to be eliminated, there should not be any field in the LKG application form for caste. That wa caste will be eliminated. If a persom wants to identify himself with his caste, that is his wish. But if the government organises everything based on caste, it is the worst form of casteism. We should realise that.
We are being misguided into all these intercaste marriage baloney by the politicians who want to take away our females (am I being paranoid?? am I???...no... I dont think so...). Think, even in intercaste marriages, the child takes the caste of the father ( can some one correct me?).
When Bharathi said, "Saathigal illayadi papa"... he did not have just marriages in mind.... he had all forms of social transaction. Now the very organisation (government)that is responsible for elimination of the caste is perpetrating it for stating in power. All standard dialogues of the intercaste marriages " my blood colour is same as his colour" "my sh** stinks the same as his sh**".. might sound good in a movie. Even buffalos blood colour is red.. can one marry a buffalo? That much better. We have gone one step further and created "interspecies" marriage.
What we need now is to plan carefully, organise ourselves. Even a kitten fights for his corner.. where as we take s***loads on us believing everything told to us.
In thambraas magazine, the editor has made a statement... "now is the time to organise..if not we have to wait for kalki, and nobody knows when he is gonna come".
I have a lots of thought and I am planning to run long threads. Request your active particiapation and suggestions.
My only objective is to make sure that, our sons and daughters get justice in education, employement and free to practice our brahminical way of life.
 
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MrJustice

Guest
Excellent response,50 years from now these intercaste children will be a new caste and now this caste , with any Brahmin blood at all will be the new target for the Dravidian parties to oppress in Tamil Nadu.
 

whisper

Active member
Hi friends,
now there was talk that dalits are converting to christianity in large scale because they are ashmed to dalits.

Here i want to tell there are brahmin converts also. Even the present head off missionaries of charity (founded by mother teresa) sister nirmala is brahmin convert also. The present CM of A.P Y.R.S REDDY(not brahmin) is also convert to chrishtan. He is form other upper caste. Did they are ashmed to call brahmin or reddy. There are many more like this.

Its also insult to say that dalits are converting to christians. As there are lot of hindu dalits brothers and sisters still with hindu religion.

There are sage valmiki, veda vysya, viswamitra and so many others form other community helped hindu religion. The present dalits brothers and sisters will help our hindu religion and our nation. As we have to help our hindu religion and country.
 

silverfox

Active member
I just happened to browse this thread and read the postings. A very nice writeup, Ramki. I knew Shri "Madurai Vaidyanatha Iyer" when I was a boy; my buddy is his grandson.

rxrajamo said:
Goundamani
Abolition of castes is a very noble and ideal notion. But it requires buy-in from all castes. Brahmins have always been in the fore front of fighting against caste inequality. Many a time it was a Brahmin, not other castes who supported the Dalits.

You mentioned Ambedkar. It was a Brahmin teacher who saw the spark in him, guided him and changed his name from "Sakpal" to Ambedkar. It was a Brahmin lady (Savita) who became Ambedkar's second wife. It was another Brahmin "Madurai Vaidyanatha Iyer" who led the Dalits into the Madurai Meenakshi temple. We can go on and on. But the point is Brahmins alone cannot do that.

Is it Brahmins who are not allowing elections to be held in Papparapatti & Keerapatti elections ? Is it Brahmins who prevent Dalits from participating in the Kandadevi Temple festival ?

Have these resulted in bashing of those communities responsible for these ?
Nope. Does any political party in TamilNadu talk about these ? Nope. Brahmin bashing in TamilNadu happens because they need a scapegoat and we are the "elichavayans". We are not even organized as a community. It has nothing to do with the persecution of Dalits.

The immediate need now is survival. If we organize ourselves and atleast murmur a protest, the Brahmin bashing will reduce if not stop. Only then we can survive as a community. Then we can all surely work towards a casteless society.

Rxrajamo
 
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goundamani

Active member
kudumi said:
Enna Goundarayya...
All standard dialogues of the intercaste marriages " my blood colour is same as his colour" "my sh** stinks the same as his sh**".. might sound good in a movie. Even buffalos blood colour is red.. can one marry a buffalo? That much better. We have gone one step further and created "interspecies" marriage.

I am very sad to read such comments.Is intercaste marriage equal to marrying a buffalo?Do you consider them to be buffalos and not humans?

Are people who belong to other castes a 'different species'?

[B said:
whisper][/B]now there was talk that dalits are converting to christianity in large scale because they are ashmed to dalits.

Here i want to tell there are brahmin converts also. Even the present head off missionaries of charity (founded by mother teresa) sister nirmala is brahmin convert also. The present CM of A.P Y.R.S REDDY(not brahmin) is also convert to chrishtan. He is form other upper caste. Did they are ashmed to call brahmin or reddy. There are many more like this.

The reasons for nirmala converting and reddy converting to christianity are different from why dalits convert to christianity and islam.

The proportion of bhramin converts and dalits converts are incomparable.Most of the fishermen community in tamilnadu,kerala and sri lanka are christians.around 50% of Nadars (who are dalits) are christians.


[B said:
whisper][/B]Its also insult to say that dalits are converting to christians. As there are lot of hindu dalits brothers and sisters still with hindu religion.

There are sage valmiki, veda vysya, viswamitra and so many others form other community helped hindu religion. The present dalits brothers and sisters will help our hindu religion and our nation. As we have to help our hindu religion and country.

There are lots of dalits who remain hindus.But if they remain as dalits,in future their children will not remain as hindus.
 
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