aryan and dravidians

[Chora Iyer Ka]

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Tamil Brahmins have Dravaidian Blood No question of it

I would like to answer those who raise the "Aryan purity" argument about blood-mixing among TamBrahms. It is by no means clear how the mixing happened whether it was through marrying women or by incorporating the original tamil priests ( soothsayers appropriately called paarpaans, from which comes the epiteth "paapaan") after training them in the Vedas. But it is clear that it did. I live in Delhi and we are clearly darker-skinned than the most North Indians, particularly Punjabis - as a group - and the emphasis is important because all Indian castes are mixbloods and individual Tamil Brahmin ladies could be fairer than Individual Sikhnis but as a group there is no question of who is paler or more aquiline nosed. There is no doubt that Punjabis, as a group, again, are much darker skinned than their Afghan and Pathan neighbors, who are darker than ( as a group!) than Germans. The fairness= purity is an ancient argument in India, ( Varna or caste means colour in Sanskrit) but the apaartheid agenda of the Vedic Aryans failed in spite of the caste system they created because Aryan and pre-Aryan mixed in blood, in culture and in consciousness to create the wonder that is India.

 

[bagya]

Just my opinion

Sir
Every north indian consume food made of wheat, which I understand gives that fair complexion. Not only that, even when women conceive they eat veggies and fruits which are golden or yellow in colour like pumpkin, carrot or potato. They take less greens, as they believe it gives a dark complexion for the baby. For the new born while giving bath they make herbal powder using wheat flour, almond and herbs. This could be another reason for the north indians, especially brahmins to be so fair. And the weather is also not hot like in South India.
Nandriyudan
Bagya

 

[Shanti Brahm]

Some thoughts on this subject

It is the great irony that Manu who is often quoted in Manu Smritri to oppress the dravidian races was himself a Dravidian king according to puranic tradition. Many of the great dravidians were considered Brahmins, including the Dravidian king Ravana.

Krishna is always depicted as dark as his name implies. Rama and Vishnu are also depicted as dark. Brahma is depicted as white. Shiva is sometimes dark and sometimes white.

Having a fair complexion is not nessesarily the same as having white skin. When one goes on a fast and purifies the body, one finds one's skin getting "brighter" and glowing since the toxins have been removed. A brahmin who practices daily sandhya is said to have tejas. Tejas is not the same as white skin.

Dravidians seem to be a distict people from the south. Aryan can be anybody, even a dravidian can be considered an aryan. I don't think aryan means a particular race. It simply means noble. If it were a race than the Buddhas teachings would only be for Aryan people and no-one else since he calls his path the Aryan path. Can we accuse the Buddha of racism?

 

[kashyap]

fairness/darkness/greenness/purpleness-- just an injection away. Let us not worry abo

With advance in science, color and complexion of skin and external look like nose , eyes , hair will become so easy to change and customize just like a new cloth. So external appearnaces will lose meaning becuase anyone can look like anything. This will happen in next 50-100 years
I think till then talks on these things will keep happening .

 

[KRS]

Folks,

Here is my humble opinion. I do not want folks to take this wrong.

What difference does it make? Black and White, Aryan and Dravidian, Fair and Dark etc., etc., can only divide us as people.

We know a couple of things: We are all Indians and were the followers of the Sanatana Dharma once. In India, we have representation of all the scientific divisions of human features. But as the recent research suggests, as Indians we are all homogeneous, sharing an astonishing 99% of common genes. We also know that a lot of Hindus (not only Brahmins) can trace there paternal roots to one of the Saptha Rishis by the Gothra system. Who knows what has happened in the interim? We are now what we are.

This is hardly a topic to lose sleep over. What is purity? Purity is about a person's character and behaviour, not about genetics.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chora Iyer Ka]

dont believe non-scientific nonsense. Bagya. Only genes determine skin colour of a group and nothing else. Other subjective conditions cause variations which the next generation does not have. My deeply sun-tanned German friend is actually darker than my sun-allergic wife, but if both were exposed to equal amounts of sunlight, the German would be proprtionately fairer and her child white and mine brown. Rice-eating Chitpavans from the Konkan coast are occasionally blue-eyed and light-haired and can be mistaken for Europeans. Know why? It's the genes, friend. That said, no colour is superior to one or the other, regardless of the prejudices Hindus carry. I think fair & lovely advertising is an insult to every Indian

 

[rxrajamo]

That said, no colour is superior to one or the other, regardless of the prejudices Hindus carry. I think fair & lovely advertising is an insult to every Indian

Well put. As Martin Luther King said " [SIZE=-1]Man should be judged by the content of his character and not by the color of his skin". Amen.

Ramki
[/SIZE]

 

[NARAS]

sirs- as we all know, and as has been mentioned so many times in this forum itself, non bramins were allowed to convert to braminism once upon a time. so it is always possible that some foreigners who invaded india converted themselves as bramins. based on this, to classify the entire race of bramins as foreign aryans or as mixed blood is absurd.

 

[NARAS]

sirs - the 2 invasions which caused irrepairable damage to india, the after effects of which are felt even now, are the islamic barbaric invasion of india and the british invasion of india. most of the other invasions were minor, not very harmful, imaginary, exaggerated and even non existent.

 

[NARAS]

sirs- there is nothing wrong in any person speaking or writing about aryan invasion. but governments should not give official status to these type of unproven, controversial views. so these views should not be published in any govt. text books, though privately any person can publish these sort of opinions

 

[NARAS]

SIRS- there is even a school of thought which says that aryans were original inhabitants of india. a section of them migrated to many parts of world. and after some centuries their descendants returned back to india. it is this returning back, which is called by 'rationalists' as 'invasion'!!!

 

[KRS]

Sirs,

The Aryan invasion theory is undergoing rigorous academic challenge as we speak. So is the 'non' Aryan invasion theory. As the scientific evidence mounts to favour one or the other, we will know which is the Truth.

But I am with His Holiness Sri Vivekananda Ji, when He said that there was no invasion. We were all Hindus from the begining, originating right in this country. His proof of this is that none of our Vedic literature makes any mention of anyone whose ancestors are from beyond India.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Brahmam]

It is the great irony that Manu who is often quoted in Manu Smritri to oppress the dravidian races was himself a Dravidian king according to puranic tradition. Many of the great dravidians were considered Brahmins, including the Dravidian king Ravana.

... .... Dravidians seem to be a distict people from the south.

It appears that you are excessively obsessed with the Aryan-Dravidian dichotomy. Please remember that this canard was invented and spread by Europeans to justify and legitimatize their empire. It was lapped up by certain groups in India who are bent upon driving a cleavage amongst various communities of Hindus.

So, please do not fall into that trap. What is important at this juncture is to develop harmony between communities and strengthen Hinduism, which is under threat from various quarters.

A brahmin who practices daily sandhya is said to have tejas. Tejas is not the same as white skin.

Why Brahmins alone? Why not all? Your averment is skewed and faulty.

It is high time Brahmins climb down from the imaginary high pedestal they are in and mix with the mainstream for larger good to our Hindu society. If my reading of some of your postings is any indication, you still believe in Brahmin superiority, an attitude which is neither true nor conducive to social harmony which is necesary for peaceful existance of Brahmins, especially the poor among them.

S.K

 

[Brahmam]

Kudos to KRS!

Bravo, KRS! :clap2:

If only everyone populating this forum as well as other Thamizh Brahmins possess the same kind of levelheadedness, the world would a far better place to live (especially for Brahmins!!)!

You have hit the bull's eye by spotlighting the paramount need for strengthening bondage amongst various communities forming part of Hindu society. It is painful that our folk are ignorant of the threat that is looming large over Hinduism. We are facing threat from all directions, the evangelistic missionaries and their cronies, the so-called lefties and intellectuals, the partisan media, the political parties perpetuating their parochial interests and above all from Islamic fundamentalists, Jihadies, Wahabies and outright terrorists!

High time we became alive to the situation, hug the Dalits, promote harmony among Hindu brotherhood in the larger interest of our country, the Bharath!!

S.K

 

[silverfox]

Just happened to read thru this thread. Well, having spent 7 months in Chennai, I have observed that people (all castes!!) are still obsessed with being fair! Somehow, we have come to associate fair skin color with superiority, purity and other nonsense! The TV channels continue to show ad's for being fair and lovely!!

The Tamil movies are full of very fair-looking women (I am told...imported from the North) but the male actors are still pudgy, dark with ugly mustaches! (Must they have to have mustaches?)

 

[hariharan1972]

Kalachaaaram sir Kalachaaaram

the male actors are still pudgy, dark with ugly mustaches! (Must they have to have mustaches?)

Silverfox,

Facial hair is part and parcel of our Dravidian culture. Be warned !!!!!

To a certain extent i support the growing of facial hair by the tamil heros. Given the fact that from time to time, they have to play the role of village hero wearing "pataapatti andrayar" (underpant with stripes roughly like the US striped flag inverted on the short side minus the stars). Can't imagine a "chocolate smooth shaved" madhavan in a 'pataap'.

Also facial hair represents 'mardangi' or manhood.

The other fringe benefits of facial hair are :

--- Given an important saying : "Meesa naraichallum aasai naraikkala" (roughly : even when moustache has greyed, your lust (?) hasn't greyed). Which is, a convenient excuse for guys like....ahem...ahemm...

--- Most important swear word in tamil vocabulary....poda..."m*****".

Though i have always wondered about another swear word which "seamlessly" (& erroneously IMHO) combines the states of "with hair" & "without hair" into "m****aandi"

 

[silverfox]

Dear Hari:
An excellent sattire! I laughed! Thank you!

 

[Brahmam]

It is not funny!

Silverfox,

Facial hair is part and parcel of our Dravidian culture. Be warned !!!!!

Do you know that over 90% of Brahmin youth of South India sport a mustache nowadays?

Your sweeping remark betrays either a lack of understanding of realities or the general tendency of Brahmins to go berserk in cozy comfort of anonymity, but fighting shy of combating the evils directly.

S.K

 

[hariharan1972]

May be May not be

Mr Brahmam,

When i wrote that growing facial hair is part of dravidian culture, i was writing in a sardonic style.

It may or may not be funny, if you didn't like it, i regret & you may treat my words as unsaid.

Hope you didn't feel that i was "instigating" brahmins to grow a mush. Far from it, as i myself don't follow a steady grooming style.

If i may humbly say so, i wonder why it is "unbrahmanical" to grow facial hair

 

[Brahmam]

Mr.Hariharan,

I wanted to stress that wearing a mooch has nothing to do with the race, caste or religion. Please, for heaven's sake, come out of the Dravida-phobia, which betrays a sense of helplessness and desperation.

There is nothing un-brahminical about growing facial hair. Even now you can find all vaideehas and orthodox brahmin males with almost a fortnight's growth of facial hair in a disorderly fashion, since, according to them, the permissible thithi or star hasn't come yet for shaving! Growing the mooch or beard in an orderly fashion, trimmed at regular intervals is far better than this kind of haggard and shaggy look.

Hope I do not trample on the corns of anyone!

S.K

 

[hariharan1972]

Thanks

Mr Brahmam,

Thanks. I get you.

It is my habit to take a few potshots at 'Dravidians' once in a while as i don't have much to offer otherwise while discussing heavy duty subjects.

What you seem to be suggesting is to refrain from adding credibility to the 'Aryan vs Dravidian' bogey.

Point taken.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Brahmam:

Wow! What I thought was a funny and satirical piece by Hariharan could induce remarks as "dravida-phobia"!!

I am absolutely certain Hariharan has no such 'phobias' as you claim! Far from it! This young man's postings have been witty, sensible and never cross the limits. (Of course, this is from my point of view).