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Are you free to express your thoughts in your country?

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prasad1

Active member
"Threats to freedom of speech, writing and action, though often trivial in isolation, are cumulative in their effect and, unless checked, lead to a general disrespect for the rights of citizen.”
-- George Orwell
The Constitution of India provides the right of freedom with the view of guaranteeing individual rights that were considered vital by the framers of the Constitution. The Right of Freedom includes freedom of speech and expression as one of its six freedoms.

The Rediff Labs team analysed the free expression index developed by PewResearchCenter which explains how countries compare on attitudes about free expression. The index combines the responses for eight survey questions that ask about whether certain types of speech and press should be censored.
Of the questions included in the index five questions ask about free speech, including whether people should be allowed to make public statements that criticise the government policies are offensive to minority groups, all for violent protests, are offensive to their religion or beliefs or are sexually explicit.
Three questions ask about free press, including whether media organisations should be allowed to publish information about large political protests in those country, sensitive issues related to national security or economic issues that might destabilise the country’s economy.
The above map explains the freedom of expression index for each country. Thirty-seven countries participated in this survey and the free expression index is calculated on the scale of 0 to 8.

United States, Poland and Spain are in the first three places with 5.73, 5.66 and 5.62 as their scores respectively. India is at 19th place with 3.68 as its freedom of expression index. The countries which are ranked lowest are Senegal, Burkina Faso and Uganda with 2.06, 2.94, 3.47 as their freedom of expression index respectively.
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/r...ss-your-thoughts-in-your-country/20161124.htm

I know sometimes freedom to others is unpalatable to some of us. But in the long run responsible open freedom of expression is the best option for a democratic society.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Active member
What value is the free expression index for TBS forums?

Depends on who you ask.
There is a self sensors according to one's own values. There is a loose rule of the forum sometimes enforced by the moderator. Of course constitution of India also can enforce some rules on the forum. Then there are aggressive objectors defending their POV.
 

raysundar

Active member
raysundarJi,

It is better to discuss this subject in a separate thread please. :)
:confused:.
Prasad introduced this thread with discussion on the index and indicated that India as a whole was 3.68/8 compared to America 5.73/8.
I presumed this thread was about freedom of discussion/thought and therefore wanted to know if TBS was somewhere in between those numbers or may be better.
:eek:hwell:Already you are sidelining me to my own separate discussion.:deadhorse:
 
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V.Balasubramani

Guest
United States, Poland and Spain are in the first three places with 5.73, 5.66 and 5.62 as their scores respectively. India is at 19th place with 3.68 as its freedom of expression index. The countries which are ranked lowest are Senegal, Burkina Faso and Uganda with 2.06, 2.94, 3.47 as their freedom of expression index respectively.
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/r...ss-your-thoughts-in-your-country/20161124.htm

I think the topic focuses on rights of citizen, freedom of expresion index, censors, comparison with diffierent countries... and not TBs Forum...?
 
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V.Balasubramani

Guest
:eek:hwell:Already you are sidelining me to my own separate discussion.:deadhorse:

Ray Sundar Ji,

IMO it is not a question of sidelining....

It is a question of derailing...

Anyway you are free to discuss

And by the way, what prevents you to go for a dedicated thread on freedom of expresion in TBs Forum???

If you are really seriousyou may go through this thread:
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=20001&highlight=Freedom+of+expression+in+this+Forum
And there may be more inthe archives. :)


 
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prasad1

prasad1

Active member
I think the topic focuses on rights of citizen, freedom of expresion index, censors, comparison with diffierent countries... and not TBs Forum...?
You are right but the way a thread runs in TB forum is like a river, it meanders its way till ends.
 

raysundar

Active member
Ok balasubramani,
Thanks for finding me a nother thread.
But on the topic of this thread.
How is the freedom of speech in India?
Do PM, CM and President talk using 4 letter words interspersed freely like many Americans do.
I have heard some pretty unruly words from politicians during speeches.
I have actually witnessed Pandit Nehru in the Lok Sabha from the press gallery when I was about 10 yrs old.
The opposition party thug rose up while Nehru was speaking and started yelling something in Hindi, and lifted his slippers and was about to throw it at Nehru. The Security guards ran in and grabbed that guy and dragged him screaming and kicking out of the assembly.
But Nehru continued to speak as though nothing had happened.
It was a most educative experience for me.
 
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V.Balasubramani

Guest
You are right but the way a thread runs in TB forum is like a river, it meanders its way till ends.


You are right but in this particular thread, there is absolutely no discussion, debate etc on the topic.

The first posting was the opening thread and second one was with a query diverting the thread's topic.
 
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V.Balasubramani

Guest
Ok balasubramani,
Thanks for finding me a nother thread.
But on the topic of this thread.
How is the freedom of speech in India?
Do PM, CM and President talk using 4 letter words interspersed freely like many Americans do.
I have heard some pretty unruly words from politicians during speeches.
I have actually witnessed Pandit Nehru in the Lok Sabha from the press gallery when I was about 10 yrs old.
The opposition party thug rose up while Nehru was speaking and started yelling something in Hindi, and lifted his slippers and was about to throw it at Nehru. The Security guards ran in and grabbed that guy and dragged him screaming and kicking out of the assembly.
But Nehru continued to speak as though nothing had happened.
It was a most educative experience for me.


ray sundar Ji,

Since you have addressed this post to me, now I had to reply though I have absolutely no interest in contributing in some of the threads opened by few members who are mostly biased and partial in their outlook.

The Constitution of India guarantees every individual of the country, the rights to freedom of speech and expression.

But there are restrictions, there are laws restricting ‘Freedom of Expression’.

And everything has a limit and one should not cross the lakshman rekha and one is not supposed to take advantage of law which are framed and practiced to protect and not to exploit.

India being a democratic country is divided religiously, politically, economically, linguistically and caste wise, etc

And there are four pillars of democracy which are Legislative, Executive, Judiciary and Press (Media) dutifully exercising their control over the society

There are umpteen numbers of movies that were banned in India either by legislative or Judiciary...why...?

(1) Bandit queen was banned by Censor Board among other things for explicit and unethical and moral grounds.
(2) Unfreedom which talks about lesbian love story

And there are Books that were banned in India…Why..?

(1) Satanic Verses of Salman Rusdie was banned
(2) Da vinci Code was banned
(3) Bertrend Russel book was banned
(4) Aundhati Roy’s book ‘The God of small things’
(5) Talisma Nasrin book suffered

Three rationalist authors were murdered viz (1) Dabholkar, (2) Pansara and (3) Kulbargi.... why..?

Everyone has some binding with any one of the restrictions of politics, economics, physiology, religion, linguistic, caste, culture, etc

And you may be aware there are popular authors who are forced to live a life in exile.

Most of the States are ruled by different political parties with different ideologies and policies.

Here is a society which will appreciate good works, award exemplary writings and commend /encourage authors

Here we have enough laws protecting ‘Freedom of expression’ and there are restrictions too.

Here there are Authors who write freely and are protected by the legislature and Judiciary when there was agitation and protests by the public against their work.

Here are readers who encourage authors by reading and buying their books

Here we have media which is free to publish anything and everything..

Here we have a minister who commented media as ‘Presstitute’

And here we have judiciary which passes orders like

'If you don't like a book, throw it away': Madras HC's fantastic order on Perumal Murugan


Link: http://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...draw-cash-man-breaks-atm-screen-madurai-53472

In the judgment among other observations the most important point was that tolerance level is on the decline.

And these four pillars of democracy consists members of society…!!

As for as Tamil Nadu is concerned where I live, I can say that the Ruling Government has filed more than 200 cases for ………….. remarks made by the opposition parties against the Government and C.M. in particular.

No idea as to how many cases will end up in conviction and how many in acquittal and how many cases will be allowed to drag for decades.

Some may accuse that these are nothing but acts of the ruling party to silence the critics.

But, the Supreme Court recently in its judgment asked the Tamil Nadu Government to chin up and face criticism of its policies.

This is the prevailing political situation of Tamil Nadu.

"SC raps Tamil Nadu govt. for choking dissent"

Link: http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...govt.-for-choking-dissent/article14588842.ece

And the situation of States may differ..

You may now draw the conclusion.

My two cents. :)
 
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raysundar

Active member
ray sundar Ji,
...
My two cents. :)
Hi Balasubramani Ji,
Wow, that was much more than two cents!
Thanks for your passionate outpouring of feelings about what is right/wrong about freedom of expression in India.
But that doesn't explaining why the index is so low compared to America.
Who does the banning of books?
Whenever I visit India and talk to people, they are passionate about their moral and ethical life in India based on their religious upbringing.
But practically I see corruption is rampant everywhere.
The statement "..just pay the guy something and get your work done.." is quite popular.
Is that an expression of the freedom?
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Active member
In India if you something derogatory about someone in power even in social media, you will be prosecuted. They will take you to court or the court of local Goonda.

People are killed with no consequence for having anti-(any) religion views. The mobs and murderers are not apprehended (?) or not prosecuted.
There was a young person who complained in the facebook,that the roads were blocked for Bal Thakre's death. She was arrested.

In India if you criticise some bureaucrat, for something then the entire system will make sure you will never see the daylight again. The vindictiveness, and loyalty to your colleague is paramount. The service to your customer is a distant second.

Because in India misuse of power is so common that they do not see it as a corruption.

I was travelling few years ago, on Air India from Delhi to Calcutta. I had confirmed reservation, and tickets in Hand. I came to the airport 2 hours in advance, and I was told that my name is not there. Not many people were at the counter. I am in panic, one of the other agent asked me to come to a different computer terminal, he showed me the list of passengers, and my name was not on it either. Then he tells me that they can book it for a different date. When I explained I have to be in Calcutta that day, he cooly told me that it would Rs5000. It was more than 1 ticket price, I had no choice. The moment money changed hand my name appeared on the list.

When corruption is in the heart and mind, Modiji can not fix it by demonetization.
 
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V.Balasubramani

Guest

There was a young person who complained in thefacebook,that the roads were blocked for Bal Thakre's death. She was arrested.

I think this item of news relates to enforcement of Section 66A of Information Technology Act 2000 which was repealed by Supreme Court on 25th March 2015

When corruption is in the heart and mind, Modiji can not fix it by demonetization.

As expected you are going astray.

It is better to stick to the topic
'Freedom of expression'.
 
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raysundar

Active member
Hi Prasad and Balasubramani Ji,
I am afraid this thread is not going to meander anywhere, but just drop dead because it is not clear what the heck is freedom expression if we cannot express views about something or the other going on in society.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Active member
Baluji,
The OP was mine.
I was responding to RaySunder's post. Let it go.
It is not a personal attack, and it is statement of events in my life and my opinion. Please do not try to moderate or censor the thought of others.
You can express your opinion (at least for now). The posts are not about you. Do not take others opinion personally.
 
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V.Balasubramani

Guest
Is that an expression of the freedom?

ray sunder Ji,

To my little knowledge I can say that the preamble of Indian Constitution ensures allcitizens equal liberty of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship, etcamong other things.


But it is more important to note that the liberty of one must not offend the liberty of other.

While enjoying freedom of speech one is supposed to exercise restraint.

And the law will take care of those who cross the lakshman rekha



quote-the-right-to-swing-my-fist-ends-where-the-other-man-s-nose-begins-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-87083.jpg


Source: google images
 
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V.Balasubramani;367538[B said:
As expected you are going astray.

It is better to stick to the topic
'Freedom of expression'.[/B]

In another thread when I observed that you have the habit of attacking the messenger, you made a caustic comeback saying that I need not do moral policing.

I feel that you are doing the same in this forum. Irrespective of the OP, you take it upon your shoulders to set right *your perceived wrongs* in this forum. So it is not surprising that you seem to be huffing and puffing everywhere.

You seem to think that by attacking the individual rather than his views, you attain a high moral ground. I may gently point to you that it is not so.

Thank you.
 
...
But on the topic of this thread.
How is the freedom of speech in India?
...

It is there.... but not there... :)

You see, in India, freedom of expression is like a stone-throw. The consequences would depend on where you throw it. In a park, on a mountain, in the river/sea, on an elephant or lion, amongst a pack of wolves, or on a beehive. It is that simple and that complex.

I do not know whether you are any wiser from the above explanation, but I tried... :)
 

GANESH65

Active member
Freedom of expression in India was always and will always remain a subject influenced by the comfort levels of the people hold power. People in Power whether it is Rulers of Kingdoms of ancient age or present day politicians, every one tried to put their influence where ever they can, on what people express publicly. People who tried to question the one who hold power are always met with severe difficulties irrespective of the fact which party is in power. Some statistics says more than 3711 RTI activicts have lost their lives aacross India for reasons of rasing issues uncomfortable to the people in Power. We have many more examples of suppression of right to express like Emergency in 1977, Raids on press media like that on Indian Express during 1987 and latest ordes on NDTV etc.. No matter who governs, if the question is against the administration, it is set to get suppressed to the extent possible by them. The influence of Social media has made the change now a days and the rating India is able to make now may be because of the extra ordinary reach of the Social media.
 
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V.Balasubramani

Guest
In another thread when I observed that you have the habit of attacking the messenger, you made a caustic comeback saying that I need not do moral policing.

You are entitled to your own observations.

I don’t say that you need not do moral policing

It was only suggested to visit all the postings instead of being selective.



icing.

I feel that you are doing the same in this forum. Irrespective of the OP, you take it upon your shoulders to set right *your perceived wrongs* in this forum. So it is not surprising that you seem to be huffing and puffing everywhere.

You seem to think that by attacking the individual rather than his views, you attain a high moral ground. I may gently point to you that it is not so.

Is this not an attack on the member?

It is you who started to attack me with ‘perceived wrong’ ’huffing and puffing’ etc

Why this ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude?

It is obvious now as to who is ‘huffing and puffing.

This amounts to throwing stones at others when one live in a glass house.

Cheers.
 
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