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Are We Really Concerned About Our Community?????Let us do a Retrospective Analysis

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rameshkrishnn

Member
Honestly doesnt it ever strike to you that life is finally a personal path?
As much as your efforts are appreciated but at a certain age it will dawn upon us humans that its finally actually a one man show personal journey and may be people want to be alone.
May be its a personal journey, At the end we need 4 people to move, 4 people to do the samskar..
There is no concept of Singular in our life. We are inter dependent.. Of Course, as a community.
People who ever talks about the individuality, personal path, journey, new system, isolation, society.. all can never ever achieve anything.
If our forefathers thought in the same way... we wouldn't have got all these scriptures, systems, values and respect what Brahmins have now.
K Ramesh
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
May be its a personal journey, At the end we need 4 people to move, 4 people to do the samskar..
There is no concept of Singular in our life. We are inter dependent.. Of Course, as a community.
People who ever talks about the individuality, personal path, journey, new system, isolation, society.. all can never ever achieve anything.
If our forefathers thought in the same way... we wouldn't have got all these scriptures, systems, values and respect what Brahmins have now.
K Ramesh
But life goes on isnt it?
We get up, eat, work, pray etc..then one day die.
Its pretty much thats all to life.
 
OP
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rameshkrishnn

Member
But life goes on isnt it?
We get up, eat, work, pray etc..then one day die.
Its pretty much thats all to life.
Its upto an Individual to decide just live and die or do something to the community and die..
Before we die, should do something to the community...which had been ignored by the rest of the society for no reason.
Naama Makkalaa pirakkirom.... Makkalaa thaan saaganum.. Maakkalaa illa..
K Ramesh
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Its upto an Individual to decide just live and die or do something to the community and die..
Before we die, should do something to the community...which had been ignored by the rest of the society for no reason.
Naama Makkalaa pirakkirom.... Makkalaa thaan saaganum.. Maakkalaa illa..
K Ramesh
but seriously is the situation that bad?

I always felt most of the Tamil Brahmins are resilient and survive against all odds and mostly are doing well in life especially abroad.

I really feel may be you could be wanting an ancient feel to time.
 
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rameshkrishnn

Member
but seriously is the situation that bad?

I always felt most of the Tamil Brahmins are resilient and survive against all odds and mostly are doing well in life especially abroad.

I really feel may be you could be wanting an ancient feel to time.
Yes,
"A Stich in Time Saves Nine"
We cannot wait for the worst situation to come..
When the community moves out of its normalcy then, its an indication of start of bad situation..
Intercast Marriages, stop doing the Nithya Karmas, thatppanam, Sradham etc., Stop Kuladeivam Vazhipadu, bracing other Dharmas for benefits etc., are the indications.
yes, we survived all the Odds when we were following the above mentioned list..
Now slowly its all vanishing....
No one can understand who the Brahmin is... its easy for people to target..and infact my own community itself ready to give up... (Effect of liberalization)..
Anyway..I have Started... will carry on...
K Ramesh
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Yes,
"A Stich in Time Saves Nine"
We cannot wait for the worst situation to come..
When the community moves out of its normalcy then, its an indication of start of bad situation..
Intercast Marriages, stop doing the Nithya Karmas, thatppanam, Sradham etc., Stop Kuladeivam Vazhipadu, bracing other Dharmas for benefits etc., are the indications.
yes, we survived all the Odds when we were following the above mentioned list..
Now slowly its all vanishing....
No one can understand who the Brahmin is... its easy for people to target..and infact my own community itself ready to give up... (Effect of liberalization)..
Anyway..I have Started... will carry on...
K Ramesh


Ok lets see this from a technical point of view:

Intercaste marriage:

DNA studies do show presence of ASI gene and ANI gene in all Indian regardless of caste from North to South of India with varying proportions and presence of R1a1a Haplogroup in any caste of the subcontinent and but with higher proportions of it seen in Brahmins of the North of India and slightly lesser in Brahmins of South India who have a higher ASI gene but with higher R1a1a Haplogroup when compared to other Non Brahmin south Indians.

Ok..what does this show?
That inter caste exchange of DNA had happened in the ancient past.

No one person in India is a pure breed of any kind.

This goes to show that human civilizations have always been in flux..may be for a while it has endogamy then it starts its mixing about as per nature.

So can you really stop this?

Next is Kuladeivam worship.
Not many people are into this anymore as Vedanta is preferred these days than to ritual worship.
Kuladeivam itself isnt Vedic in origin and it was embraced by Brahmins as it was the local culture.
Brahmins only did rituals/yagnas in the past and not even idol worship.

Pre -existing Pre Vedic -Agama Shastras too amalgamated with Vedic school of thought and we have various forms of deity worship today.

So what you practice itself as a Brahmin today is a result of fusion of schools of thoughts of both the Vedic and Non Vedic ideologies in the past.

So what is 100% the same anymore?
Its not and never would be becos Sanathana Dharma is an evolving one.
Not a rigid fixed one, hence its survived sans violence and was all inclusive.

So frankly speaking what are you trying to save and prevent?
You really cant stop flux and change.

The core values can be preserved.
Many people after Covid-19 have shifted to more Vedantic ways of prayer becos when all temples were shut we could only rely on our Inner self and God and nothing else.
With the Vedantic mindset one might not want to adhere to Kula Deivam or image worship as before.

Its not totally wrong to go beyond that becos the goal of Sanathana Dharma is to go beyond all conditioning and realize the Truth.
 
OP
OP
R

rameshkrishnn

Member
Ok lets see this from a technical point of view:

Intercaste marriage:

DNA studies do show presence of ASI gene and ANI gene in all Indian regardless of caste from North to South of India with varying proportions and presence of R1a1a Haplogroup in any caste of the subcontinent and but with higher proportions of it seen in Brahmins of the North of India and slightly lesser in Brahmins of South India who have a higher ASI gene but with higher R1a1a Haplogroup when compared to other Non Brahmin south Indians.

Ok..what does this show?
That inter caste exchange of DNA had happened in the ancient past.

No one person in India is a pure breed of any kind.

This goes to show that human civilizations have always been in flux..may be for a while it has endogamy then it starts its mixing about as per nature.

So can you really stop this?

Next is Kuladeivam worship.
Not many people are into this anymore as Vedanta is preferred these days than to ritual worship.
Kuladeivam itself isnt Vedic in origin and it was embraced by Brahmins as it was the local culture.
Brahmins only did rituals/yagnas in the past and not even idol worship.

Pre -existing Pre Vedic -Agama Shastras too amalgamated with Vedic school of thought and we have various forms of deity worship today.

So what you practice itself as a Brahmin today is a result of fusion of schools of thoughts of both the Vedic and Non Vedic ideologies in the past.

So what is 100% the same anymore?
Its not and never would be becos Sanathana Dharma is an evolving one.
Not a rigid fixed one, hence its survived sans violence and was all inclusive.

So frankly speaking what are you trying to save and prevent?
You really cant stop flux and change.

The core values can be preserved.
Many people after Covid-19 have shifted to more Vedantic ways of prayer becos when all temples were shut we could only rely on our Inner self and God and nothing else.
With the Vedantic mindset one might not want to adhere to Kula Deivam or image worship as before.

Its not totally wrong to go beyond that becos the goal of Sanathana Dharma is to go beyond all conditioning and realize the Truth.
What you want to tell or prove.
I don't understand.
If you want to give keep giving information from Internet you can.. but all cannot be considered true..
So many information is forged or mis quoted.
Its just a Belief...If I believe im a 100% True Clan... I am... I dont want anyone's authentication for that..
DNA/RNA all these things u can see in our temples itself as Sculptures of Naga Devatas... So, what ever u bring as science already existing....
Agamas... Dharmas.. Vedas... always rite.
Even, if anyone dies, in that area, or on Grahanam Day, the temple is closed.. So we can take this into this catagory..
Inter Cast, Inter Dharma, Inter-religion Marriages are not good for any one..
Pasu-Pasuvoda thaan seranum..
I dont believe in Hi-Low breeds..
K Ramesh
 
OP
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rameshkrishnn

Member
I got it from another Thread:-

I read recently in fb which I have given it as a screenshot
Screenshot_2020-09-08-14-16-13-937_com.android.chrome.jpg
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
What you want to tell or prove.
I don't understand.
If you want to give keep giving information from Internet you can.. but all cannot be considered true..
So many information is forged or mis quoted.
Its just a Belief...If I believe im a 100% True Clan... I am... I dont want anyone's authentication for that..
DNA/RNA all these things u can see in our temples itself as Sculptures of Naga Devatas... So, what ever u bring as science already existing....
Agamas... Dharmas.. Vedas... always rite.
Even, if anyone dies, in that area, or on Grahanam Day, the temple is closed.. So we can take this into this catagory..
Inter Cast, Inter Dharma, Inter-religion Marriages are not good for any one..
Pasu-Pasuvoda thaan seranum..
I dont believe in Hi-Low breeds..
K Ramesh
Its not from internet.
Its from understanding of DNA and also history.
I do not rely on internet and instead I use my knowledge in related fields.

DNA does not lie so the fact is inter mixing is inevitable and no single race in the world is pure.

We cant classify people as High Low or any breed becos at the end of the day even the human body has to be transcended and discard.

Adhering to one's culture and tradition is fine but should not have shades of pride and prejudice otherwise there isnt actually any culture at all..
Culture isnt just about rites and rituals...its about understanding humanity and its inter connectedness.

Endogamy is fine too becos its easier to marry a person from the same culture for a smooth sailing marriage but then again you can only advocate it but consenting adult children could choose different communities.

Coming to mixed castes ...the last time the Vedas was re-arranged and compiled it was a mixed individual who did it.
It was also a person from a hunter community who wrote the Ramayan.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Its just a Belief...If I believe im a 100% True Clan... I am... I dont want anyone's authentication for that..

I visited a mental hospital, and there i met many patients who believe what they want. But without authentication from the ward doctor, they would not be allowed to go home.

Similarly believing that you are 100% whatever without DNA authentication, is false.
 
OP
OP
R

rameshkrishnn

Member
I visited a mental hospital, and there i met many patients who believe what they want. But without authentication from the ward doctor, they would not be allowed to go home.

Similarly believing that you are 100% whatever without DNA authentication, is false.
I don't go to Mental Hospital for any reason and meet any Mental Patient.... as neither they understand what I say nor I understand what they want to convey...
your conversation is just resembles the situation.
you should not make comment reading in between the lines..
If you do so, then you will definitely visit the Mental Hospital... hope you know the reason.
Thanks
K Ramesh
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I don't go to Mental Hospital for any reason and meet any Mental Patient.... as neither they understand what I say nor I understand what they want to convey...
your conversation is just resembles the situation.
you should not make comment reading in between the lines..
If you do so, then you will definitely visit the Mental Hospital... hope you know the reason.
Thanks
K Ramesh

I go to mental hospitals as I volunteer my time there.
There i met a patient who is restrained as she believes she can fly. Believes are not facts,
The Nazis believed in the purity of the white race, see where it lead them to.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Now that science can determine a person’s racial and ethnic origins from a cheek swab, those devoted to ideas of racial “purity,” are employing methods of mind games and logic twists to support their beliefs despite facing evidence of their own multiracial heritage.

Researchers Aaron Panofsky and Joan Donovan of UCLA looked at the way members of the white supremacist website Stormfront handled finding out the results of their DNA tests. Panofsky explained that due to the potential for conflict over their very identity, these test takers were often supported in several ways that, frankly, are obviously not true.

“When a subject would take the genetic ancestry test (GAT), the results to this group were good or they were bad,” Panofsky said. “Sometimes it was a matter of ‘Well I thought I was Irish, but actually I’m Norwegian, so I’m still very white, hooray.’ But if the news was what these white supremacists would consider to be bad, defined as evidence of heritage from, for example, Middle Eastern peoples, this is where it would get interesting.”

The first method to maintain the idea of racial purity was simply to reject GAT as a basis of knowledge about an individual’s heritage. Trust in family history and records were deemed superior to “some test.”


 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
In the Pali Canon, the Buddha has many conversations with brahmins who, clearly provoked by his ideas of radical equality, routinely approached him to argue and learn. Late in the Middle Length Discourses, we meet a group of 500 brahmins who live in the town of Savatthi, where the Buddha is staying at the time. When they hear that the Buddha has been teaching that all the castes are equally “pure,” they are outraged, and decide to send a smart young brahmin to go and debate him.

In the following conversation between the Buddha and the proud brahmin Assalayana (after whom the Assalayana Sutta is named), the Buddha offers some ways to address the obdurate belief in superiority of caste, race, or any other birth group.

Master Gotama, the brahmins say, ‘Brahmins are the superior caste; any other caste is inferior. Only brahmins are the fair caste; any other caste is dark. Only brahmins are pure, not non-brahmins. Only brahmins are the sons and offspring of Brahma: born of his mouth, born of Brahma, created by Brahma, heirs of Brahma.’ What does Master Gotama have to say with regard to that?


The Buddha begins to dismantle Assalayana’s notions of superiority by noting that we all enter the world the same way:

But, Assalayana, the brahmins’ brahmin-women are plainly seen having their periods, becoming pregnant, giving birth, and nursing [their children]. And yet the brahmins, being born through the birth canal, say, “Brahmins are the superior caste . . .”

 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
The question should be are we really concerned about India?

Sarhad pe marne wala the har vir tha Bharatvasi.

If you expand your horizon you will not be worried about such mundane things.

I understand that people in power do not like to lose it, so they try to claw back to the top.
So in this age where caste politics dominate the political scene, the disadvantaged want any means to gain their glory days. I guess that is human.
 

natkaushik

Active member
Good Morning All
Based on the latest conversation...
One thing.. everyone wants an easy life.
I wont say self centered but not ready to come forward for a common cause..
The basic purpose of this thread itself is defeated....The entire conversation is just about the Individual perspective.... there is no common cause...."How I can Live Peacefully"..
Our peace cannot be considered as a community Change...
Thanks
K Ramesh
பிராமணாளோட எல்லா லக்ஷணங்களயும், பூணலைத்தவிர, விட்டாச்சு-
சி'கை, பஞ்சகச்சம், பார்வண ஸ்ராத்த!ம், தர்ப்பணம், ஸந்த்யாவந்தனம், ஸம்ஸ்கிருதம், தேவநாகரி.
இதுக்குமேல விட ஒண்ணுமில்லயே.
அப்படியும் மத்தவா நம்பளை ஒத்துக்கலையே.
அதுக்காவது, ஒரு ஜாதி சங்கம் வச்சு (like an extended family)ஒத்தருக்கு ஒத்தர், முக்கயமா குழந்தைகள் படிப்பு, கல்யாணம் போன்ற லௌகீக விஷயங்களில் ஒத்தாசயா இருக்கக்கூடாதா? நம்ம ஸந்ததிகளுக்கு நம்ம ஸம்ப்ரதாயங்களிலே ஒரு பிடிப்பா இருக்குமே.
பகவான் தான் நல்ல வழி காட்டணும்.
 

tbs

Well-known member
பிராமணாளோட எல்லா லக்ஷணங்களயும், பூணலைத்தவிர, விட்டாச்சு-
சி'கை, பஞ்சகச்சம், பார்வண ஸ்ராத்த!ம், தர்ப்பணம், ஸந்த்யாவந்தனம், ஸம்ஸ்கிருதம், தேவநாகரி.
இதுக்குமேல விட ஒண்ணுமில்லயே.
அப்படியும் மத்தவா நம்பளை ஒத்துக்கலையே.
அதுக்காவது, ஒரு ஜாதி சங்கம் வச்சு (like an extended family)ஒத்தருக்கு ஒத்தர், முக்கயமா குழந்தைகள் படிப்பு, கல்யாணம் போன்ற லௌகீக விஷயங்களில் ஒத்தாசயா இருக்கக்கூடாதா? நம்ம ஸந்ததிகளுக்கு நம்ம ஸம்ப்ரதாயங்களிலே ஒரு பிடிப்பா இருக்குமே.
பகவான் தான் நல்ல வழி காட்டணும்.
hi

finally total surrender to GOD....as Lord Krishna said in bhagavad gita.....sarva dharman.....

HE will take care of....MAA SUCHAHA....
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
hi

finally total surrender to GOD....as Lord Krishna said in bhagavad gita.....sarva dharman.....

HE will take care of....MAA SUCHAHA....
LOL!

Yes, finally that's all there is to life.
We need to surrender to God and realize that we are never the actual doer in any real sense.
But that does not mean we have to be attached to inaction and at the same time we can adhere to culture/religion etc but not get attached to it as if that is our identity.

Our only identity is "Atma" and nothing else.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Ramesh Ji,

I don't know about you but I feel this whole Covid-19 pandemic is teaching us something.

It is teaching us the following:

1)When disaster strikes everyone is at risk, the rich and famous, the poor , the highly educated, the not so formally educated, the so called High and so called Low.

2)It showed us that society needs to function as one unit.

3)When everything was at a standstill we humans had to just rely on basic needs,food, water, health facilities.
All culture/religion etc took a back step.
In fact it shut down all places of worship and we all had to abandon our cultural practices for a while.

4)What does this show?
We suddenly realized we do not actually need that many clothes or shoes or anything cos we had no where to go.
At one point all the money we had was not even being actually used and money would have been of zero value if there was a famine.

5)So what did we rely on finally?
SELF and God (for those who have a belief in God)
Where was God placed?
In our hearts.
The places of worship were closed but the temple in our hearts was not closed.

6)So what is culture?
Culture is realizing the full quantum potential in us as humans and we are the living temples where God resides...there is no total eclipse of the heart where God resides.

7)I am not saying external culture is not important but what I mean to say is the only culture that we would be left with is the culture of knowledge of SELF.


This is what I learnt from COVID-19.

God keeps things simple..I guess we humans like complicated matters.
Finally what are we? The culture? the caste? the High -Low breeds? What are we??

The final answer of "Who Am I" is the actual culture of existence.
 

Lotusinsanskrit

Active member
லௌகீக விஷயங்களில் ஒத்தாசயா இருக்கக்கூடாதா? நம்ம ஸந்ததிகளுக்கு நம்ம ஸம்ப்ரதாயங்களிலே ஒரு பிடிப்பா இருக்குமே.
There are only two ways of living for Brahmins one lowghegam and other vaidheegam.

In vaidheegam too there are many compromises in this fast rat race world. They have to use gadgets for communication and vehicles for travel etc.,. Also earning they have to do a lot in this era of modern world.

In lowgheegham I hope 25 percent are still living in their orthodox but in another percentage even those who have gone abroad atleast felt to keep and those have gone other states too little bit keeping the Brahmins practice but those who stays in TN are totally mixed like what you said.
பிராமணாளோட எல்லா லக்ஷணங்களயும், பூணலைத்தவிர, விட்டாச்சு-
சி'கை, பஞ்சகச்சம், பார்வண ஸ்ராத்த!ம், தர்ப்பணம், ஸந்த்யாவந்தனம், ஸம்ஸ்கிருதம், தேவநாகரி.
இதுக்குமேல விட ஒண்ணுமில்லயே.
அப்படியும் மத்தவா நம்பளை ஒத்துக்கலையே.

The last line is correct. But living like two generations before is not that easy

For that I have read in the fb that we cannot go back to agraharam as everything gone out of our hand to others and so in this world there are few compromises atleast for earning and keeping the rituals as traditional but others says when you compromise for the convenience we compromise everything to mingle with society.

Atlast as you said
Only God has to save.
 
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