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Are Indians Subservient to Authorities? — A culture genotype

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
In July 1961, Stanley Milgram performed one of the most important experiments ever, in the history of human psychology. He had recently obtained his PhD in Social Psychology from Harvard University at a time when “the Architect of the Holocaust”, Adolf Eichmann was undergoing trial for crimes against humanity. During the war trials following World War II in 1945-46, Nazi War Criminals had used what had since come to be referred to as the Nuremburg Defense. Simply put, they were not vindictive masochists who enjoyed torturing and exterminating millions of Jews, Poles and Gypsies in grotesque concentration camps; they were merely following orders from superior officers. The Allied Powers refused to admit this defense in these trials as they believed that no human being would follow orders that they found morally reprehensible. Stanley Milgram’s experiment changed all that.


How would the Indian youth fare at this particular experiment? Replications of the experiment have come up with a scary average of around 60-70% of people willing to administer the highest shock on a stranger just because they were informed to by an authority figure.

Indian youth are brought up with a surplus of authority figures. We have our parents, elder siblings, uncles, aunts, cousins, teachers, professors, principals, senior students at school and college and even de facto leaders in social circles. At every step of the way, we are told what we have to do. Our parents don’t ask us to study for exams, we are instructed to. We are told that we have to follow our parent’s religious beliefs and share their same ideologies. At school, we are instructed in moral values. Our moral code is an amalgamation of the ideologies of our parents, our school and our social circle.

Yet, how many of us have stopped to think about the implications of the instructions being imparted to us by our parents, teachers and friends? How many of us took a puff of that first cigarette, fully aware of all the harmful effects of smoking, just because the authority figure in our social circle is a smoker and told us to? Or because we wished to impress someone and have been instructed by years of stereotyping that smoking is cool? How many of us have ever had the fortitude to not involve ourselves in something we do not wish to be a part despite authority figures telling us to? How many of us have not blindly accepted the knowledge given to us by our teachers and professors to be true even though even a moment’s reflection will show us that it is tainted with their personal bias?

The Indian youth is the biggest source of power in the world today. We are a land of one billion people with a median age of 25. And it frightens me how easily we can be molded to follow the instructions of an authority. A hundred years ago, highly educated young Indians would end letters to British Colonists with the Valediction: “Your Most Obedient Servant”. We are little different. Subservience to authorities is a culture genotype that needs to be weeded out of our communal DNA if we are to succeed in the world.


I recently saw a TV program called Dance +6, It made me realize why Indians in India do not succeed but once they are out of India they simply flourish.
No one in the west would demean themselves to please others. They will do whatever needs to be done, keeping their dignity.

Of Course, I am talking of financial and career success.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
The reason Indian youths behave this way is due to our cultural differences from the West. The Western culture is based on the Greek Philosophy – success, failure is no option. Since Greeks did not have agriculture about 400o years (later through Iraq (Mesopotamia middle east agriculture entered there) – ago were just hunters where the success rate was only about 20% like what the Lions and Tigers get,. Thus, they never accepted defeat, but just rather a break. Thus, the West follows this philosophy and try and try again until they succeed. Out Indian youths when they go there, follow the same philosophy, thus are slowly advancing economically. But does that does not mean they are welcomed, rather tolerated. One American friend said, a these guys academically good, but arrogant, argumentative and destructive. We tolerate them.

Now, Middle East and Asia were flat ground with domesticated agriculture. Thus, cooperation was a must when harvesting. During calamity and rainy season, all hands were needed for agriculture. Thus being a Patriarchal culture and agriculture based country, Indians always (99%) followed their father’s and elders, thus did not excel with their intelligence, rather sacrificed their life to keep the family economically viable. Thus, the urge to follow the parental direction is still in some families but those who moved away from Vaidikam, Temple priest and other poor paying jobs without encouragement for higher education and due to lack of motivation , still suffer along with their inherent fear of poverty. Those who moved to cities like Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi etc., (similar to Tanjore Brahman moving to Palghat at the invitation of King Samorin and Tirunelvi Brahmans moving to Trivancore due to invitation of Travancore Maharaja) gave importance to education.

Brahmins who are denied Tamil Xanadu Govt due to discrimination and quota, now move away to USA, Australia etc. and prospering. They follow some Indian religious tradition, rest following the Western traditions but with minimal meat eating.

So, times are different, changes are inevitable and Jews, Chinese all do follow where they can excel and economically successful. Nothing to brag about India except Indians do not steal intellectual properties like the Chinese do. They do not forgive the slap on their faces in India, thus no technology will be transferred!
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Nothing to brag about India except Indians do not steal intellectual properties like the Chinese do. They do not forgive the slap on their faces in India, thus no technology will be transferred!

Are you kidding?
Have been to Ludhiana? Every machine is a copy of some Japanese or German company product.
Have you ever visited an examinations center?

India is the biggest market for the counterfeit mafia. These mafia holds a very strong base in the country.


The use of pirated software is rampant in India

Buying a CD of pirated software or getting it downloaded in a pen drive from a roadside vendor is a common feature among people using computer in India. An online survey revealed the extent to which pirated software is used in the country. It says that about 49 % of population using computer are using pirated software in some or other form.

According to an estimate, the unauthorized copying, distribution or the use of software without obtaining a proper licence from the software company, also termed as software piracy, costs the industry almost $3 billion every year in India, second to only China.

Many consumers on the online community platform Local Circles mentioned the use of pirated software in offices and homes and cited easy availability and cheap prices as the main catalyst which prompts their use.


The Authentication Solution Providers’ Association (ASPA), a self-regulated industry body of anti-counterfeiting and traceability solutions providers unveil the first edition of its report “The State of Counterfeiting In India - 2020”, that highlights the trends of counterfeiting incidents reported in India for the period 2019 and 2018.

The key findings of the report are as follows:

- The number of counterfeit incidents in India increased by 24 percent between 2018 to 2019.

- The top 10 sectors with the highest number of counterfeit cases reported include currency, FMCG, alcohol, pharmaceutical, documents, agriculture, infrastructure, automotive, tobacco, lifestyle and apparel. Amongst these currency, alcohol and FMCG continue to be the top three sectors with the highest counterfeit incidents in the last two years. Among these, the FMCG sector is most vulnerable as counterfeit incidents in the sector increased by 63 percent between 2018 (79) to 2019 (129).

- States including Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, West Bengal, Punjab, Jharkhand, Delhi, Gujarat, and Uttarakhand are amongst top ten States which need urgent attention to frame anti-counterfeiting policy mechanism. UP continues at the top followed by Bihar, Rajasthan and together these three States represent almost 45 percent of the total counterfeit incidents reported in India in the last two years.

- Counterfeiting activities are not limited to high-end luxury items. Common day to day items including cumin seeds, mustard cooking oil, ghee, hair oil, soaps, baby care vaccines and medicine are increasingly reported counterfeited by criminals.

- A spike in cases being reported about fake hand sanitizers, masks, and PPE kits has been observed during the COVID crisis. Between February to April 2020, more than 150+ cases of counterfeit incidents had been reported including fake PPE kits, sanitizers, and masks.

Nakul Pasricha, president, ASPA, said, ‘The trends call for immediate action. Counterfeit products across various sectors in India are causing over INR 1 trillion (1 lakh crore) every year to our economy and the progress to date is simply not good enough to fight this crime of the 21st century.


I hate to project such a bad picture of India on a public forum, but it is the reality and everyone Inside and outside India knows it.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Our culture teaches us to be obidient (at least outwordly). I do not know what happened to all the Natiketas? The epics, and all the rulers just wanted a non-thinking humans as subjects and that is exactly what we have in India. The same Indians out of India, find their iner strenth and succeed outside,
 
Our culture teaches us to be obidient (at least outwordly). I do not know what happened to all the Natiketas? The epics, and all the rulers just wanted a non-thinking humans as subjects and that is exactly what we have in India. The same Indians out of India, find their iner strenth and succeed outside,
India was under the thump rule of colonialists and invaders whose main interest was loot this great land and propagate their interest further. Everything they did was to propagate their interest. The loot was so huge,indians were pushed to abjest poverty. The main interest was sustain themselves and support theirbflocks back home. The awakening is still to come and it will be a new India and the time May not be far of.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
India was under the thump rule of colonialists and invaders whose main interest was loot this great land and propagate their interest further. Everything they did was to propagate their interest. The loot was so huge,indians were pushed to abjest poverty. The main interest was sustain themselves and support theirbflocks back home. The awakening is still to come and it will be a new India and the time May not be far of.
Ok, we can blame the Invaders, but what was the plight of ordinary folks? Even in the Gupta period or Maurya periods, the ordinary people were not any better.

Even in the south, the local chieftains were no better, they were fighting wars and looting their neighbors. We did not have nation builders, we had local goondas ruling over the masses. Ordinary folks did not have a voice.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
It is nature’s law that the weaker one always come last. This is a pervasive truth along the spectrum of animals to humans. When people do not learn new dynamic skills, are happy with status quo, no one can help. This does not mean we should ignore them. But when you try to help them they should cooperate and go up. No one can work for them.

This kind of pity is useless since the sympathizer only gives verbal help but does no show how they can come up. Without education and refuse to send children to school but expect them to work and earn for the family – as machines- nothing is going to change. Even if you give all your wealth they will spend it on immediate gratification, rather than invest for future seeking help.

The fear of economic and political freedom makes people behave irrational. Are we not seeing Brahmans are kept poor for the same fear, though about 30-40 % of the Brahmans did discriminate others due to ignorance and superiority complex. Those who sympathize with Archagas (priests) going poor never tell the archagas to be a tour guide of the temple along being a prohitar to rich foreign people (US 2nd generation Indians tourists) to , telling the history and other facts. A Kallidaikurichy Mani Vadyar's son have boarding and lodging in Kashi and make tons of money along with a prohitar. Oh, Sastras did not tell it. Guys who study History for each degree forget that if they add value to their education – history of arts, history of jewelry, history of battles, history of sculpture.. related to several tourist places and with the help of proper friends print manuals in Hindi, Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, German, Russian, french.. and sell them to he foreign tourist, they can make tons of money.

When a son of my elementary school teacher who had MA in history without job lamented, I told him what I am writing here. He is now self employed with a tourist company and making more money than what he expected. They do this in foreign countries.

So, people who sell vote without thinking about it’s value, will be poor and no one can change it unless they themselves change.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
The fear of economic and political freedom makes people behave irrational. Are we not seeing Brahmans are kept poor for the same fear, though about 30-40 % of the Brahmans did discriminate others due to ignorance and superiority complex. Those who sympathize with Archagas (priests) going poor never tell the archagas to be a tour guide of the temple along being a prohitar to rich foreign people (US 2nd generation Indians tourists) to , telling the history and other facts. A Kallidaikurichy Mani Vadyar's son have boarding and lodging in Kashi and make tons of money along with a prohitar. Oh, Sastras did not tell it. Guys who study History for each degree forget that if they add value to their education – history of arts, history of jewelry, history of battles, history of sculpture.. related to several tourist places and with the help of proper friends print manuals in Hindi, Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, German, Russian, french.. and sell them to he foreign tourist, they can make tons of money.
This forum is for all people, there are active non-Brahmin members, who contribute to this forum. So seem to forget that keep sprouting about Brahmin this and that. you forget that you are Brahmin by accident. So stop writing anti-NB posts.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
This forum is for all people, there are active non-Brahmin members, who contribute to this forum. So seem to forget that keep sprouting about Brahmin this and that. you forget that you are Brahmin by accident. So stop writing anti-NB posts.
Sorry for your outbrst. I did mention elsewhere that I had helped my Muslim teachers' son with MA history to do the same and he is succesful.
In fact both my father and myslef have Harijns, Muslims, Christicans .. friends and I eat with them with a request no garlic in every thing, no meat/egg in your house for three days as I am alergic to them and they oblige. I have Muslim nieces and made their parrent to educate them and they are happy.
So, do not twist the fact. If you analyze your post, you have not given any constructive suggestions or critism to change even one person's life. I am not attacking you, but asking you to self evaluate.
Can you tell me how many Black, Hisponic children get food help from you? But about 25 tribal orphans get food through me. That is the spirit of a real Brahmin!.
When I said a Brahmin priests, does the idea prevented any so called NB to use it? So, just because you in USA does not give you a blank check to argue any thing and blame the Indian Govt etc. Do something to change it and tell us, we will join you. Sorry, if you have not done so far, you will never do in the future since past the indication of the future. Still wish you best of luck.
 
Ok, we can blame the Invaders, but what was the plight of ordinary folks? Even in the Gupta period or Maurya periods, the ordinary people were not any better.

Even in the south, the local chieftains were no better, they were fighting wars and looting their neighbors. We did not have nation builders, we had local goondas ruling over the masses. Ordinary folks did not have a voice.

Ok, we can blame the Invaders, but what was the plight of ordinary folks? Even in the Gupta period or Maurya periods, the ordinary people were not any better.

Even in the south, the local chieftains were no better, they were fighting wars and looting their neighbors. We did not have nation builders, we had local goondas ruling over the masses. Ordinary folks did not have a voice.
It is no better else where as well. Have the fueldle lords attack others else where and even the countries attacked others. Germans caused two world wars. The british would have been over run by the spaniards armeda but for the sudden severe cyclonic storm which forced them to retreat. Why the british monarch/govt encouraged the pirates or looked the other way because they benefitted from them
It is difficult to understand why some of the indians keep villifying this great country. The ancient travellers glorified India. It will not be far of when India regains their prominence despite the distractors.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
It is no better else where as well. Have the fueldle lords attack others else where and even the countries attacked others. Germans caused two world wars. The british would have been over run by the spaniards armeda but for the sudden severe cyclonic storm which forced them to retreat. Why the british monarch/govt encouraged the pirates or looked the other way because they benefitted from them
It is difficult to understand why some of the indians keep villifying this great country. The ancient travellers glorified India. It will not be far of when India regains their prominence despite the distractors.
You are right.

To get back to our historical time and fame, it will take a long time. More learned Indians are moving into USA to pursue very high level intellectual areas. They will change things, but most Indians will not recognize them nor benefit. However, constructive criticism is fine but simply barking is not going to change any thing - dogs have been barking at Sun, the Sun is remains the same Sun.

However, when you travel, you see less corruption(Scandinavian country less then 5%) and clean cities and want to replicate in India which is not a single country(though claimed) but United States of India (USI) and like European Union (EU) remains with conflicting interests. If we can prioritize based on real statistics and start implement what is good for about 80%+ people first, then 70%+, 60%+ and so on, things will work out.

But every one wants everything. Even in USA the Democratic party has fifty division and so on. Prioritizing for example: compulsory population control and denial all benefits; for every free things some thing in return for the community(exception old and sick), water conservation, …. only civic mind Indians living abroad without any bias or monetary benefit can constitute such an advisory group, which our politicians and people will not support and cooperate.
 

sravna

Well-known member
It is no better else where as well. Have the fueldle lords attack others else where and even the countries attacked others. Germans caused two world wars. The british would have been over run by the spaniards armeda but for the sudden severe cyclonic storm which forced them to retreat. Why the british monarch/govt encouraged the pirates or looked the other way because they benefitted from them
It is difficult to understand why some of the indians keep villifying this great country. The ancient travellers glorified India. It will not be far of when India regains their prominence despite the distractors.
Sir,

Well said. The only nation that can be said have achieved universal level knowledge is ancient India. The antics of monkeys of today is amusing. It will take centuries for them to come anywhere close to the proficiency of ancient India. Our goal should not be to imitate the apes but try to reclaim our own knowledge.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
This forum is for all people, there are active non-Brahmin members, who contribute to this forum. So seem to forget that keep sprouting about Brahmin this and that. you forget that you are Brahmin by accident. So stop writing anti-NB posts.
Dear Prasad ji,
I know you mean good when you wrote the above.

But honestly being a NB, I am actually fine with reading any type of post be it even an anti Non Brahmin post or anti Brahmin post too.

Too much " politically correctness" weakens the mind as we would only be able to handle praise and not blame.

Life is about handling both praise and blame.

If some post doesnt seem right I would state my opinion and its not because I am supporting a Brahmin or Non Brahmin, but just stating a fact as it is.

Reading posts of any kind opens up a different dimension of the human mind of the writer himself or herself.

Being sensitive or reactive to any posts is actually a measure of a bruised ego.

We get to realize that how much we react to anything not because we care or see it as unfair but rather because we have some personal interests..the actual test is to see our reaction if we just see things as it is.

Then we become less reactive and try to understand ground reality.

I do note that some posts which highlight the anti Brahmin sentiment in TN seldom addresses the actual problem but its just a victim card blame game.

The same victim card blame game too would be played by the Dravidian movement blaming Brahmins for oppression and Varna discrimination.

So what is the final outcome?
Nothing!
Both dont introspect.
Why?
Its the clash of the egos to say " I am right and you are wrong"

So this viscious cycle goes on and on..and the only reason a Brahmin can temporary feel brotherhood with another Brahmin is because of the Dravidian,the common " enemy"
But otherwise there isnt brotherhood and the usual superstitious differences among the Brahmin community crops up.

The same goes with the Dravidian..they too temporary unite under one banner when the Brahmin is their common " enemy"..but when the common enemy is not in the picture, the Dalits would be at the receiving end of the Middle Castes.

So do we not see a pattern of a game of thrones here?

Its a sad state actually when we humans lose the ability to introspect and iron out differences instead of being sucked into a portal of " hate and let hate"

So let us all read any posts so we can learn not to react but rather analyse and introspect.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Past is a cancelled check, future is a promisoy note thus present is the only relaity. No one from historical time (say Vyasa) living can describe all the changed that has taken place. Use the past as a guideline but modify as far as possible withouting doing harm to others.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Sorry for the laziness based spelling mistakes. My teachrs would have punished me. Wish we have had a spelling checker in this sight, too much to ask.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka,

Most of us are naive enough to think we can change people by advice. Brain is a very resistant and even impervious thing if necessary. If you are able to change even one person you are an equivalent of God. Only two factors can influence people though not change them. One is authority and the other is money.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Renuka,

Most of us are naive enough to think we can change people by advice. Brain is a very resistant and even impervious thing if necessary. If you are able to change even one person you are an equivalent of God. Only two factors can influence people though not change them. One is authority and the other is money.
I have been able to make someone change and the process of change is a never ending one.
That individual is myself.
We can only change ourselves.
 
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