Are Avatars over rated?

[renuka]

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TEXT 7​

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yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham

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TRANSLATION​

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Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself.


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TEXT 8​

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paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
dharma-samsthapanarthaya
sambhavami yuge yuge


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TRANSLATION​

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In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium.​

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I am starting to wonder if Avatars are over rated.

Frankly speaking what earth shaking feat did anyone of them do?


Of what use was it to the world for Varaha Avatar to kill Hiranyaksha?

Of what use was it to the world for Narasimha to kill Hiranyakshipu?

Of what use was it to the world that Vamana came to send Bali to Patala Loka?

Of what use was it to the world for Parashurama to kill a few arrogant Kshatriyas?

Of what use was it to the world for Rama to kill Ravana?

Of what use was it to the world for Krishna to kill Kamsa and help the Pandavas to gain back their kingdom?


It seems to be that Avatars descend for a one to one "fight" for crimes that are so trivial.

Why do Avatars waste their own time?

Compared to ISIS and their recent crime of beheading even children..none of the Asuras of the past that we killed by any Avatar actually deserved to be killed.

Why is there no Avatar now to handle ISIS?

Avatars seem to only take birth to waste time in India killing Asuras and settling land and kingdom disputes and chasing Asuras that abducted another's wife!

Why cant any Avatar do anything worth while?

Now the question is "Did Avatars really exists? Or it was just a fiction of imagination of some Vaishnavite?"

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Just imagine what would have happened if the avatars were not taken? With nobody to contain Kamsa or Ravana they would have spread their empire and made evil become deep rooted. So I think the real purpose of avatar is to not let evil gain in breadth and depth and nip it at the beginning.

Avatars are natural occurrences that happen whenever the balance seems to tilt in favor of adharma.

 

[Vaagmi]

Renukaji,

About your modern day Asuras and their killings, could it be that the modern avatar has already happened and its name is Barak Obama. Wait and see. LOL.

 

[prasad1]

avatar ». An avatar is a technologically-enhanced surrogate body that a user « wears » to perform physically challenging tasks. The Sanskrit word avatara, originally meant « embodiment of a god » and was mainly used to describe the human form Hindu god Vishnu used to assume to interact with mortal beings. In today’s popular culture it designates the presence of a human agent in a technologically-intensive environment. See for instance informational habitats: from popular applications like Messenger, to forgotten 3d communities such as Cybertown – the little bugger is all over the web.

View attachment 3699

James Cameron’s Avatar.
I am pretty sure this is not the Avatar you are referring in this post.
Nor it is the Avatar of Renuka you had in mind.

View attachment 3700

You are talking of Avatar of Vishnu, Devi, and others in the Hinduism.

 

[renuka]

Renukaji,

About your modern day Asuras and their killings, could it be that the modern avatar has already happened and its name is Barak Obama. Wait and see. LOL.

I was just telling my mother that yesterday..I was saying that if President Obama and the US troops do something about this..than we can declare him the Modern Avatar and his troop of Devas.

So I guess wait and see as you said..after all Obama already got rid of of Osama.

Actually one can write a story about Osama and Obama.

One can make it like this..that Osama had a boon after many years of penance that no one besides a Muslim can kill him.
So he was confident that no Muslim will oppose him and he went about terrorizing the world.

Then came Barrack Hussain Obama who is born from a Muslim father but not a practicing Muslim but based on lineage he is technically of Muslim ancestry.

Therefore Obama finished off Osama within the requirement of the boon.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

May be if such a story is written, one Meenu will enter our forum and write that Obama is over rated! :lol:

 

[tks]

ISIS did not come into existence out of the blue.. Had the rebels in Syria were properly armed as Hillary Clinton and many others were saying then this tragedy would have been prevented now. Obama being inexperienced still , reticent and tentative has helped to foster far too many issues in my view. He summed up his foreign policy in a line which is - "Dont do stupid thing" .. well the world is far more dangerous than when he took office

 

[CHANDRU1849]

The main purpose of Avatar Business is to show Shiva worshippers in poor light by Vishnu dasars. The Kings Kamsa, Ravana, Hiranyakasibu etc. are shown as Shiva Worshippers. There is no logic in the avatar business. If Rama is an avatar of Vishnu and Vishnu is the supreme God, why did he worship Lord Shiva, which subsequently becomes a famous pilgrim centre - Rameshwaram.

The saddest thing is even Sankara Mutts - a pseudo Vaishnavite mutts - go with the above theory.

Hence, the main purpose is to degrade Lord Shiva and Saivism.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

In this forum, "vaishnavites and their Gods" appear to be the new soft targets. I can imagine how things will unravel quickly if the discussion were to be about any other "ism".

 

[Raji Ram]

Sri Rama has never mentioned that He is an avtAr of Lord Vishnu but Sri Krishna declared that He is the supreme being!

The logic in avtArs of Lord Vishnu is that those whom He killed are NOT His worshipers!!

P.S: ''ariyum sivanum oNNU; ariyAdhavan vAyilE maNNu'' is a popular saying in Tamil. ray2:

 

[Vaagmi]

I was just telling my mother that yesterday..I was saying that if President Obama and the US troops do something about this..than we can declare him the Modern Avatar and his troop of Devas.

So I guess wait and see as you said..after all Obama already got rid of of Osama.

Actually one can write a story about Osama and Obama.

One can make it like this..that Osama had a boon after many years of penance that no one besides a Muslim can kill him.
So he was confident that no Muslim will oppose him and he went about terrorizing the world.

Then came Barrack Hussain Obama who is born from a Muslim father but not a practicing Muslim but based on lineage he is technically of Muslim ancestry.

Therefore Obama finished off Osama within the requirement of the boon.

What about the woman? There has to be a woman in the story to make it authentic. Either she has to be kidnaped or jailed or forcibly added to the harem etc. etc., May be RRji's post has a hint. Like the avatar Obama Ms. Levinsky's new avatar has perhaps assumed the name Meenu/or some othr Christian sounding name to suit the circumstances, and is waiting in the sidelines to strike at the right moment. She may come and reveal many things including how Obama is overrated in every thing. LOL.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

Your imagination is just great!

I wrote 'Meenu' to rhyme with 'Renu', that is all!

 

[Vaagmi]

ISIS did not come into existence out of the blue.. Had the rebels in Syria were properly armed as Hillary Clinton and many others were saying then this tragedy would have been prevented now. Obama being inexperienced still , reticent and tentative has helped to foster far too many issues in my view. He summed up his foreign policy in a line which is - "Dont do stupid thing" .. well the world is far more dangerous than when he took office

May be Syrians did not have a leader worth the support of US. US is wary of another conflict going out of control with its surrogate turning against it. The weapons would end up turning against Saudi Arabia and that would lead to a situation which will become a major head ache. History is full of such stories in an underestimated surrogate turning against the mentor and cutting the hand that fed-LTTE style. I believe Obama is doing the right thing by not getting involved directly or indirectly in a major way into the conflict. There are too many players who are playing it close to their chest. They have not revealed their hands yet. It is better to wait and be satisfied that Israelis will keep the situation under control for the present with their punitive, ruthless, repeated strikes. The world is far more dangerous than when Obama took over no doubt. But it is not yet so dangerous to make him take a plunge Iraq style.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Sri Rama has never mentioned that He is an avtAr of Lord Vishnu but Sri Krishna declared that He is the supreme being!

The logic in avtArs of Lord Vishnu is that those whom He killed are NOT His worshipers!!


P.S: ''ariyum sivanum oNNU; ariyAdhavan vAyilE maNNu'' is a popular saying in Tamil. ray2:

Per your statement, Rama and Krishna are not the avatars of Vishnu. Are they separate Gods? If that is so, Vishnu has only eight avatars and not ten.

It is interesting if one is not worshipping Vishnu, he will be killed. Good.

Assuming 'ariyum Sivanum onnu', why Kamsa, Ravana, Hiranyakasibu etc. are shown as sporting Vibhudhi and not Pattai Namam. What is the logic in it?

P.S. There is another popular saying in Tamil, which is not proper to mention.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

Your imagination is just great!

I wrote 'Meenu' to rhyme with 'Renu', that is all!

Lo! What a letdown! I see an apparition, a figure chasing me with a rolling pin in hand and it looks like our Meenu. LOL.

 

[Raji Ram]

1. Per your statement, Rama and Krishna are not the avatars of Vishnu. Are they separate Gods? If that is so, Vishnu has only eight avatars and not ten.

2. It is interesting if one is not worshipping Vishnu, he will be killed. Good.

3. Assuming 'ariyum Sivanum onnu', why Kamsa, Ravana, Hiranyakasibu etc. are shown as sporting Vibhudhi and not Pattai Namam. What is the logic in it?

P.S. There is another popular saying in Tamil, which is not proper to mention.

1. No Sir! I never said that Sri Rama and Sri Krishna are NOT avtArs of Vishnu.

Sri Rama never mentioned that He is an avtAr of Vishnu where as Sri Krishna said that and also showed His Viswaroopam.

2. If I say 'Crows are black' that does not mean that all black things are crows!!

3. Since those people did not know the truth, they were killed for their wrong deeds by the avtArs of Vishnu.

How can Lord Shiva kill His ardent devotees? Did He not grant a boon and rush to Vishnu to take Mohini avtAr?

 

[Raji Ram]

Lo! What a letdown! I see an apparition, a figure chasing me with a rolling pin in hand and it looks like our Meenu. LOL.

Is Meenu friend of Mrs. K?

 

[Vaagmi]

Is Meenu friend of Mrs. K?

I think it is getting to be interesting. And by the way, who is this new character K and Mrs K? Is it Kumbakarna and Mrs. Kumbakarna? I mean a modern avatar of K and Mrs. K.? LOL

 

[tks]

May be Syrians did not have a leader worth the support of US. US is wary of another conflict going out of control with its surrogate turning against it. The weapons would end up turning against Saudi Arabia and that would lead to a situation which will become a major head ache. History is full of such stories in an underestimated surrogate turning against the mentor and cutting the hand that fed-LTTE style. I believe Obama is doing the right thing by not getting involved directly or indirectly in a major way into the conflict. There are too many players who are playing it close to their chest. They have not revealed their hands yet. It is better to wait and be satisfied that Israelis will keep the situation under control for the present with their punitive, ruthless, repeated strikes. The world is far more dangerous than when Obama took over no doubt. But it is not yet so dangerous to make him take a plunge Iraq style.

It is not plunge all the way into Iraq or no action being the only options available.
Leadership is about seeing the options and getting people across the globe to the side of doing the right thing.

ISIS formation and its impact was underestimated. Obama did not seriously listen to the options provided by many who warned him about consequences of his reticence and tentativeness.

Obama did not plan a proper exit strategy out of Iraq and could not assert right influence on the IRAQ government.

Under his watch the Russians annexed Crimea, and ISIS is born

 

[Vaagmi]

It is not plunge all the way into Iraq or no action being the only options available.
Leadership is about seeing the options and getting people across the globe to the side of doing the right thing.
ISIS formation and its impact was underestimated. Obama did not seriously listen to the options provided by many who warned him about consequences of his reticence and tentativeness.
Obama did not plan a proper exit strategy out of Iraq and could not assert right influence on the IRAQ government.
Under his watch the Russians annexed Crimea, and ISIS is born

I understand we have different perceptions about the issue. I believe it is not for US to discipline the world as long as peace and existing economic system is not threatened in a big fundamental way. The civilized part of the world can live with a certain amount of chaos and conflict in isolated corners of the globe as long as they do not rock the boat violently. ISIS formation is only naming ceremony of an existing nebulous entity. A society which has a different set of social values has to be only contained and not imprisoned/ghettoised. And Obama believed in just that principle. Moreover militant groups change their loyalties like they change their shirts. Advices will be of all kinds and from all quarters. But the buck stops at the oval office executive table. The show has just begun. Let us wait to see the denouement. We can judge then.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

1. No Sir! I never said that Sri Rama and Sri Krishna are NOT avtArs of Vishnu.

Sri Rama never mentioned that He is an avtAr of Vishnu where as Sri Krishna said that and also showed His Viswaroopam.

2. If I say 'Crows are black' that does not mean that all black things are crows!!

3. Since those people did not know the truth, they were killed for their wrong deeds by the avtArs of Vishnu.

How can Lord Shiva kill His ardent devotees? Did He not grant a boon and rush to Vishnu to take Mohini avtAr?

Madam,

For Shiva worshippers, he is the Supreme and the question of Mohiniattam is nothing but a later day creation to gain popularity.

When Hinduism is represented by two different identities, what is the reason of showing some Kings as demons, who are supposed to be Shiva devotees, were killed by Vishnu. It is an indirect attack by Vishnu dasars to degrade Lord Shiva and his worshippers, which is promptly supported by some religious leaders who proclaim that they are Shiva devotees. Why were they not shown as Vishnu dasars.

For some, POOSUVATHU VIBHUDHI IDIPATHU SHIVAN KOIL.

 

[Raji Ram]

Unless a fanatic, a Shiva worshiper prays Vishnu also.

But most of the Vaishnavites don't pray Shiva.

P.S: I have a few students who are Vaishnavites but still wear vibhooti.

 

[renuka]

For Shiva worshippers, he is the Supreme and the question of Mohiniattam is nothing but a later day creation to gain popularity.

When Hinduism is represented by two different identities, what is the reason of showing some Kings as demons, who are supposed to be Shiva devotees, were killed by Vishnu. It is an indirect attack by Vishnu dasars to degrade Lord Shiva and his worshippers, which is promptly supported by some religious leaders who proclaim that they are Shiva devotees. Why were they not shown as Vishnu dasars.

I see your point.

Why is every evil tyrant invariably a Shiva Bhakta?

How come there is no evil tyrant who is a Vishnu Bhakta?

So did all these Avatars actually exists as manifestations of Lord Vishnu?

Starting to wonder!

Now everything seems to be so concocted..no idea what is the truth anymore!LOL

 

[tks]

I understand we have different perceptions about the issue. I believe it is not for US to discipline the world as long as peace and existing economic system is not threatened in a big fundamental way. The civilized part of the world can live with a certain amount of chaos and conflict in isolated corners of the globe as long as they do not rock the boat violently. ISIS formation is only naming ceremony of an existing nebulous entity. A society which has a different set of social values has to be only contained and not imprisoned/ghettoised. And Obama believed in just that principle. Moreover militant groups change their loyalties like they change their shirts. Advices will be of all kinds and from all quarters. But the buck stops at the oval office executive table. The show has just begun. Let us wait to see the denouement. We can judge then.

When the ideology of a group is violent conversion to Islam or else face death they are not bound by any other law other than their interpretation of Sharia law. Those that are converted forcibly are immediately asked to surrender to the Jihadists needs. Women are forced as sex slaves for the Jihadists for example.

Countries can have the right principle of 'live and let live' but the world is capable of producing extremists that want to take over the world. Not everyone can have the capacity to sense such a threat or be in the position to take a leadership role. USA does..

I am not for USA to engage in wars around the world or be a world's policeman .. but when violence is taking place that is outside any sense of reason action is demanded to do the right thing by those in power. I am not suggesting unilateral action and not suggesting stepping into historical conflicts between factions of Islam.

Someone in the role of Obama gets very detailed reports not available to the public . Most of us may hold different views based on how the popular media spins a story.

Those with access to such information had many options provided to Obama. The problem is he was trying to protect his own legacy of the one who ended the Iraq war per his campaign promise on a schedule that someone competent and responsible would not have when the ground reality was changing (and he had access to detailed information).

No air power can change the power acquired by the ISIS Jihadists. They take over, loot and own the new wealth along with more power. Putting boots in the ground is unthinkable for most right now but that is what may be needed. All these could have been prevented when the roots of ISIS was taking hold. US made a mistake going into Iraq and made even bigger mistake when it tried to leave

The price to contain this group may be very high ...Let us wait and see and I hope I am wrong

 

[sarang]

Unless other muslim countries and princely states in the gulf which are also facing a fate worse than death come together and annihilate ISIS and neutralise it.

The price to contain this group may be very high ...Let us wait and see and I hope I am wrong