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AnanthaNarayanan

Active member
Received via in box:-courtesy: manoj

hope we all can follow.
Appreciation


This is a powerful message for our modern society.


We seem to have lost our bearing & our sense of direction.



One young academically excellent person went to apply for a managerial position in a big company.


He passed the first interview; the director did the last interview.


The director discovered from the CV that the youth's academic achievements were excellent all the way, from the secondary school until the postgraduate research, never had a year when he did not score.


The director asked, "Did you obtain any scholarships in school?"


The youth answered "none".


The director asked, "Was it your father who paid for your school fees?"


The youth answered, "My father passed away when I was one year old, it was my mother who paid for my school fees.


The director asked, "Where did your mother work?"


The youth answered, "My mother worked as laundry woman.


The director requested the youth to show his hands.


The youth showed a pair of hands that were smooth and perfect.


The director asked, "Have you ever helped your mother wash the clothes before?"


The youth answered, "Never, my mother always wanted me to study and read more books. Furthermore, my mother can wash clothes faster than me.


The director said, "I have a request. “When you go back today, go and clean your mother's hands, and then see me tomorrow morning.”


The youth felt that his chance of landing the job was high. When he went back, he happily requested his mother to let him clean her hands.


His mother felt strange, happy but with mixed feelings, she showed her hands to the young man.


The youth cleaned his mother's hands slowly. His tear fell as he did that. It was the first time he noticed that his mother's hands were so wrinkled, and there were so many bruises in her hands. Some bruises were so painful that his mother shivered when they were cleaned with water.


This was the first time the youth realized that it was this pair of hands that washed the clothes everyday to enable him to pay the school fee. The bruises in the mother's hands were the price that the mother had to pay for his graduation, academic excellence and his future.


After finishing the cleaning of his mother’s hands, the youth quietly washed all the remaining clothes for his mother.


That night, mother and son talked for a very long time.


Next morning, the youth went to the director's office.


The Director noticed the tears in the youth's eyes, asked: "Can you tell me what have you done and learned yesterday in your house?"


The youth answered, "I cleaned my mother's hand, and also finished cleaning all the remaining clothes'


The Director asked, "Please tell me your feelings."


The youth said:


1. I know now what appreciation is. Without my mother, there would not have been the successful me today.


2. By working together and helping my mother, only I now realize how difficult and tough it is to get something done.


3. I have come to appreciate the importance and value of family relationships.


The director said, "This is what I am looking for to be my manager.

I want to recruit a person who can appreciate the help of others, a person who knows the sufferings of others to get things done, and a person who would not put money as his only goal in life. You are hired.


Later on, this young person worked very hard, and received the respect of his subordinates. Every employee worked diligently and as a team. The company's performance improved tremendously.


A child, who has been protected and habitually given whatever he wanted, would develop "entitlement mentality" and would always put him self first. He would be ignorant of his parent's efforts. When he starts work, he assumes that every person must listen to him, and when he becomes a manager, he would never know the sufferings of his employees and would always blame others. For this kind of a person, who may be good academically, may be successful for a while, but eventually would not feel sense of achievement. He will grumble and be full of hatred and fight for more. If we are this kind of protective parents, are we really showing love or are we destroying the children instead?*


You can let your children live in a big house, eat a good meal, learn piano, watch a big screen TV. But when you are cutting grass, please let them experience it. After a meal, let them wash their plates and bowls together with their brothers and sisters. It is not because you do not have money to hire a maid, you want them to understand, no matter how rich their parents are, one day their hair will grow gray, same as the mother of that young person. The most important thing is your children learn how to appreciate the effort and experience the difficulty and learn how to work with others to get things done.


You would have forwarded many mails to many and many of them would have back mailed you too...but try and forward this story to as many as possible...this may change somebody for the better.






TIME IS NOT JUST MONEY... BUT MORE THAN MONEY...





 

sangom

Well-known member
Received via in box:-courtesy: manoj

hope we all can follow.
Appreciation


This is a powerful message for our modern society.


We seem to have lost our bearing & our sense of direction.

...
Shri Anantha,

I feel even this msg is not going to make any impact on the younger generation because it is the tendency now to "enjoy one's life to the hilt". Even parents do not count. It is only myself before marriage, and "myself, my wife and my kids" afterwards. I am reminded of a proverb in Malayalam, "jnaanum tandaanum tEngaakkaaranum", meaning, myself, the feloow who climbs the coconut trees and the one who buys the coconuts; that completes the world!!
 

amala

Well-known member
Thank you for this story. It was very moving and made me tear up. SangomJi you do have such a bleak view of youngsters, I'm very sad to note. I am sure we're all not that bad!
 

Nara

Well-known member
Thank you for this story. It was very moving and made me tear up. SangomJi you do have such a bleak view of youngsters, I'm very sad to note. I am sure we're all not that bad!


Dear amala, AFAIK, nobody in this forum exceeds Shri sangom in knowledge or the lucidity and clarity with which that knowledge is presented. There is nobody who commands more respect in this forum than Shri Sangom. (Having put him in a pedestal, it is now time to bring him down -- just kidding, I mean every word of respect for him!)

Perhaps it is his keen observation and experience of the ways of the world that make him so pessimistic. With respect to Shri Sangom, I don't share his pessimism. In my line of work I come across lots of young people. They do look up to the older people and want to learn from them. But, they are not satisfied by such refrains as -- I will tell you what it is like, you take it from me. They don't want to unquestioningly accept what they are told. They want to accept it only if it makes sense to their curious and thinking minds.

Yes, the youngsters often act in ways that we adults may not approve, but that is not because they love us oldsters any less, but it is because, IMO, they want to experience life in their own terms, in a little more adventurous way than I would have; ever so afraid of parents -- not more loving than the present gen, only more afraid.

So, amala, don't be sad, Shri sangom, for all the sternness he shows, heart of hearts, he has more often than not supported progressive views in this forum.

Cheers!
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear amala, AFAIK, nobody in this forum exceeds Shri sangom in knowledge or the lucidity and clarity with which that knowledge is presented. There is nobody who commands more respect in this forum than Shri Sangom. (Having put him in a pedestal, it is now time to bring him down -- just kidding, I mean every word of respect for him!)

Perhaps it is his keen observation and experience of the ways of the world that make him so pessimistic. With respect to Shri Sangom, I don't share his pessimism. In my line of work I come across lots of young people. They do look up to the older people and want to learn from them. But, they are not satisfied by such refrains as -- I will tell you what it is like, you take it from me. They don't want to unquestioningly accept what they are told. They want to accept it only if it makes sense to their curious and thinking minds.

Yes, the youngsters often act in ways that we adults may not approve, but that is not because they love us oldsters any less, but it is because, IMO, they want to experience life in their own terms, in a little more adventurous way than I would have; ever so afraid of parents -- not more loving than the present gen, only more afraid.

So, amala, don't be sad, Shri sangom, for all the sternness he shows, heart of hearts, he has more often than not supported progressive views in this forum.

Cheers!

Sow. Amala,

You are quite right when you say, "I am sure we're all not that bad!". If you will kindly read my post again, you will find that I too have not branded all the youngsters, but said only that, "it is the tendency now to "enjoy one's life to the hilt". Well, it is a tendency, and in posts like this it is not always possible to make the language cent per cent accurate like, "more and more of the younger generation at present show a tendency to enjoy life to the hilt, and, in this process forget even their duties towards their parents, siblings, etc.", which is the picture I am getting.

If my memory is correct, you are located in Malaysia. Perhaps your parents, as also your in-laws to be, will have made adequate provision for their old age so that they won't have to depend on their children for financial support. But in India there was one intermediate generation which could have done so, if only they had limited the expenses on their children's education. But they lived under the age old myth (dream) of their son/s looking after them in their old age. But now those dreams are getting shattered. (Pl. don’t conclude that this is my case. It is not so, luckily.) Then there are (and will continue in future also, perhaps) parents with very limited incomes. They cannot make provision for old age even if they do not spend anything on educating their children.

In these two categories, it is becoming more and more public knowledge that the children (and more particularly, the sons) do not take care of their parents. The number of such old people taking shelter in (low-cost) old-age homes with very unsatisfactory set-up is increasing and one can find this actually if one visits some of these low-cost old age homes. My observations are limited to tambrams. (Please note that there are posh Senior Citizens' Colonies with all modern amenities, to which those who can afford the high costs, go so that they won't have to face the hassles connected with maintaining their own residences; I am not referring to those.)

I had narrated an incident where a tambram girl referred to the boy's parents as "those two devils", during the "penn paarkkal". Recently I came to know of another incident from another boy's uncle. The girl in Chennai, told the boy that she has definite plans for her future and that he should agree to support her in all her plans, which included,

1. Her parents and her younger sister will live with them.
2. He and she will have to meet the marriage expenses of her younger sister since her parents are poor. (Incidentally, the boy's parents are also of the same social standing and she knows that well.)
3. His parents should not come to live with them on long term basis.
4. She wants to start a school of her own (!) within the next 3 or 4 years for
which the initial investment will be at least Rs.5 lakhs. He should manage to find half the outlay.
5. She will pursue her Ph.D. studies and hence he should not expect her to do household jobs etc.

It should be noted that the girl's father is a salesman in an ordinay cloth shop or something and somehow she has been able to get a teaching job in a private school in Chennai. The boy is also a clerk or something in a private firm in Chennai.

This is the latest and so I am giving the details. Therefore, I still stand by my statement that this extremely selfish trend is there among the younger generation, in this particular case it goes against the in-laws of the girl.

I have also been seeing several boys who grew up before my eyes, sidelining their parents. Many of these parents are well-off and do not depend on their sons financially, but it is the emotional approach which is lacking.

Unlike what Shri Nara feels, parents do not expect obedience but only regard from their sons nowadays. Perhaps Shri Nara is not familiar with the changes that have come in our community.

Dear Shri Nara,

Thank you for all the nice words. I am aware that a pedestal will ill suit me and so it is better to keep me off it, always!

I have detailed my pov above. But call it pessimism or non-progressive, these are trends which are clearly visible among tambram society now, here in India, I feel. I do not say all youngsters have become like that, which please note, but that it is the direction in which things are moving. By writing this, if you feel I am being not progressive, I beg to differ. Progressiveness is not supporting these tendencies IMO. I am neither pessimistic nor happy about this trend because, I believe, eventually the society itself will develop antidotes for all such changes.

Yougsters' love towards their parents/grandparents, and whether they would like to learn from those elders may not become evident to you in your line of work, I feel. On the contrary, you may be seeing an international cross-section of youngsters – not only tambrams, who will, in all probability, try to show positive facades before their teacher; what they are in their real personal lives may be quite different - don't you think so? May be I will be branded a confirmed pessimist, still what you see there in the US may be very different from what is happening among the avearge tambram here, IMO.
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Sow. Amala,

You are quite right when you say, "I am sure we're all not that bad!". If you will kindly read my post again, you will find that I too have not branded all the youngsters, but said only that, "it is the tendency now to "enjoy one's life to the hilt". Well, it is a tendency, and in posts like this it is not always possible to make the language cent per cent accurate like, "more and more of the younger generation at present show a tendency to enjoy life to the hilt, and, in this process forget even their duties towards their parents, siblings, etc.", which is the picture I am getting.

If my memory is correct, you are located in Malaysia. Perhaps your parents, as also your in-laws to be, will have made adequate provision for their old age so that they won't have to depend on their children for financial support. But in India there was one intermediate generation which could have done so, if only they had limited the expenses on their children's education. But they lived under the age old myth (dream) of their son/s looking after them in their old age. But now those dreams are getting shattered. (Pl. don’t conclude that this is my case. It is not so, luckily.) Then there are (and will continue in future also, perhaps) parents with very limited incomes. They cannot make provision for old age even if they do not spend anything on educating their children.

In these two categories, it is becoming more and more public knowledge that the children (and more particularly, the sons) do not take care of their parents. The number of such old people taking shelter in (low-cost) old-age homes with very unsatisfactory set-up is increasing and one can find this actually if one visits some of these low-cost old age homes. My observations are limited to tambrams. (Please note that there are posh Senior Citizens' Colonies with all modern amenities, to which those who can afford the high costs, go so that they won't have to face the hassles connected with maintaining their own residences; I am not referring to those.)

I had narrated an incident where a tambram girl referred to the boy's parents as "those two devils", during the "penn paarkkal". Recently I came to know of another incident from another boy's uncle. The girl in Chennai, told the boy that she has definite plans for her future and that he should agree to support her in all her plans, which included,

1. Her parents and her younger sister will live with them.
2. He and she will have to meet the marriage expenses of her younger sister since her parents are poor. (Incidentally, the boy's parents are also of the same social standing and she knows that well.)
3. His parents should not come to live with them on long term basis.
4. She wants to start a school of her own (!) within the next 3 or 4 years for
which the initial investment will be at least Rs.5 lakhs. He should manage to find half the outlay.
5. She will pursue her Ph.D. studies and hence he should not expect her to do household jobs etc.

It should be noted that the girl's father is a salesman in an ordinay cloth shop or something and somehow she has been able to get a teaching job in a private school in Chennai. The boy is also a clerk or something in a private firm in Chennai.

This is the latest and so I am giving the details. Therefore, I still stand by my statement that this extremely selfish trend is there among the younger generation, in this particular case it goes against the in-laws of the girl.

I have also been seeing several boys who grew up before my eyes, sidelining their parents. Many of these parents are well-off and do not depend on their sons financially, but it is the emotional approach which is lacking.

Unlike what Shri Nara feels, parents do not expect obedience but only regard from their sons nowadays. Perhaps Shri Nara is not familiar with the changes that have come in our community.

Dear Shri Nara,

Thank you for all the nice words. I am aware that a pedestal will ill suit me and so it is better to keep me off it, always!

I have detailed my pov above. But call it pessimism or non-progressive, these are trends which are clearly visible among tambram society now, here in India, I feel. I do not say all youngsters have become like that, which please note, but that it is the direction in which things are moving. By writing this, if you feel I am being not progressive, I beg to differ. Progressiveness is not supporting these tendencies IMO. I am neither pessimistic nor happy about this trend because, I believe, eventually the society itself will develop antidotes for all such changes.

Yougsters' love towards their parents/grandparents, and whether they would like to learn from those elders may not become evident to you in your line of work, I feel. On the contrary, you may be seeing an international cross-section of youngsters – not only tambrams, who will, in all probability, try to show positive facades before their teacher; what they are in their real personal lives may be quite different - don't you think so? May be I will be branded a confirmed pessimist, still what you see there in the US may be very different from what is happening among the avearge tambram here, IMO.

Well said, Sri Sangom ji,



Some times I am surprised to find my self in confusion that, whether we are all really aware of what's happening in our society? or we just overlook to notice precisely how some of the emotional/physical botheration s are valid to point out and see its relevancy with the real life happenings around us?

Sir, you have clearly pin pointed the human expectations and psychology of the present generation with examples of real life happening and IMO, no one would deny it, at least being in India.

Sometimes its confusing whether such parents (as per the story you have narrated) are themselves into such expectations or they been forced by their daughters to fix such a target.

It seems, if at all guys wants to marry, they have to shoulder the responsibilities of his wife's ambitions and that of her parents and siblings unmindful of his capacity and his responsibilities towards his parents as a Son. I do agree and believe that a husband should extend his support emotionally, physically and monetarily to the extent possible, to his in-laws. But burdening him with clear cut terms and conditions beyond his capacity and badgering him after marriage is hitting the guys below the belt.


It is painful to note that, the same family back ground guys as that of his prospective alliances, are considered fit to marry only if they are capable to full fill the dreams of their wives and inlaws.

Upon accepting such terms, if a guy indulges in some or many kind of anti social income generating techniques to meet the ends, will his wife and his inlaws would still be respecting and safe guarding him for his endeavors? OR having fullfilled their targets, would isolate him, to be scott free themselves, stating – “I dunno that my husbad / we dunno that our son-in-law is such a criminal and would tarnish our image in the society?


If we need to take stand in support of girls and their parents of the standards you have narrated above, from a real life incident, we have to conclude that such limited capacity guys should never ever marry a girl even from a similar family back ground.

I wish and hope that such a scenario of the present Indian marriage contract should be the rarest of the case...Else, it is better for such low income/family back ground guys to remain single and try to live their life happily as possible, that can suit their own valid values and principles with or without amendments as required from time to time.

 

suraju06

Well-known member
Dear Mr. Sangom,

I presented your views/story/narration to a girl I know who has a similar problem as the one you have described and her views are given here:

I, as a girl with a younger sister who is studying, have some expectations from the boy whom I am going to marry. We have no brothers. My father does not have a post-retirement income source. His reserves and savings after my marriage will not be substantial. When I look at the way the cost of living is soring i have nightmares about their old age. I have only few options. I have to either forego a marriage and try to arrange my sister's marriage to a suitable boy when she is ready for it and continue to support my parents even though that will be causing them immense mental agony or look for a suitable boy who can share my financial burden within reasonable limits. So I am mentioning these conditions to the prospective groom:
1. He should permit me to continue with my job after marriage and agree to my supporting my family until my sister gets a job..
2. Having said that I would expect him to be supportive in my household responsibilities.
3. If he has got other brothers/sisters they should share the effort to support their parents with my husband.
4. I value my relationship with my parents and would certainly respect my husband's love and affection towards his parents. Being his wife I will show a lot of respect and affection to them.
5. Being a teacher in a school, I understand the value of starting a school. I think there is nothing wrong in planning for my future along with my husband. Starting a school requires money and I want my future husband to realise that he has to prudently save just as I do to invest for our future.

Now this is the other side of the divide. If the objection is only to the way the conditions have been communicated(may be in a harsh , direct to the point,language) we can get over the problem because it is the intentions that are more important. If the very spirit is questioned, then I think the boy is not eligible to marry. Cheers.
 
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sangom

Well-known member
Well said, Sri Sangom ji,



...Sometimes its confusing whether such parents (as per the story you have narrated) are themselves into such expectations or they been forced by their daughters to fix such a target.
Shri Ravi,

I will not blame the girls' parents unless there is enough evidence. This conversation is part of the direct meeting between the boy and the girl in the presence of one friend from either side, at a hotel. The parents do not usually come into the picture. The girl must be having such ideas which perhaps she has not told her parents even.

Anyway, the further development is that the boy informed the girl's parents that he cannot go forward with the proposal and prompt came an e-mail from the girl asking him to "explain" on what grounds he found her unfit!


It seems, if at all guys wants to marry, they have to shoulder the responsibilities of his wife's ambitions and that of her parents and siblings unmindful of his capacity and his responsibilities towards his parents as a Son. I do agree and believe that a husband should extend his support emotionally, physically and monetarily to the extent possible, to his in-laws. But burdening him with clear cut terms and conditions beyond his capacity and badgering him after marriage is hitting the guys below the belt.
There can be many reasons for the girl putting such conditions, including her disapproval of him. If the boy was rich enough, these could be justified also. But when she was well aware of the boy's financial condition, it looks too much to ask him for all these things.

It is painful to note that, the same family back ground guys as that of his prospective alliances, are considered fit to marry only if they are capable to full fill the dreams of their wives and inlaws.
In the context of the Naveena Swayamvarams, someone had written, I think, that even girls from poor tambram families desire to marry well-off boys. There is nothing wrong with that but then they should not have gone to the extent of girl-meeting-boy once they knew the boy's background.

Upon accepting such terms, if a guy indulges in some or many kind of anti social income generating techniques to meet the ends, will his wife and his inlaws would still be respecting and safe guarding him for his endeavors? OR having fullfilled their targets, would isolate him, to be scott free themselves, stating – “I dunno that my husbad / we dunno that our son-in-law is such a criminal and would tarnish our image in the society?
As you said, such cases are not many and girls may not marry a boy unless they know for sure his financial position. But the tendency to put such impossible conditions is the strange aspect.

If we need to take stand in support of girls and their parents of the standards you have narrated above, from a real life incident, we have to conclude that such limited capacity guys should never ever marry a girl even from a similar family back ground.

I wish and hope that such a scenario of the present Indian marriage contract should be the rarest of the case...Else, it is better for such low income/family back ground guys to remain single and try to live their life happily as possible, that can suit their own valid values and principles with or without amendments as required from time to time.

This is an over-aged boy (and the girl also is) and, going by the present conditions, his marriage seems too distant. Perhaps he will end up as a chronic bachelor.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
raju,

awesome story re this girl and her expectations of life. i wish her well and pray that her dreams become reality.

look at all the complaints of boys, re girls' 'demands'. let us see how many will understand this girl's needs. a while ago, there was a girl of poor financial circumstances who wanted a mate, in another thread. i challenged, so many eligible bachelors here, to step in, marry the girl at their own cost. i hope someone did without telling us, for nobody publicly responded to my note.

i still fear, that our boys' parents are still in the timewarp, atleast those whose sons are still not married by the late thirties. they can try to accommodate the girls' desires and may be come to a new paradigm, that the children jointly support each other's parents.

thank you.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear Mr. Sangom,

I presented your views/story/narration to a girl I know who has a similar problem as the one you have described and her views are given here:

I, as a girl with a younger sister who is studying, have some expectations from the boy whom I am going to marry. We have no brothers. My father does not have a post-retirement income source. His reserves and savings after my marriage will not be substantial. When I look at the way the cost of living is soring i have nightmares about their old age. I have only few options. I have to either forego a marriage and try to arrange my sister's marriage to a suitable boy when she is ready for it and continue to support my parents even though that will be causing them immense mental agony or look for a suitable boy who can share my financial burden within reasonable limits. So I am mentioning these conditions to the prospective groom:
1. He should permit me to continue with my job after marriage and agree to my supporting my family until my sister gets a job..
2. Having said that I would expect him to be supportive in my household responsibilities.
3. If he has got other brothers/sisters they should share the effort to support their parents with my husband.
4. I value my relationship with my parents and would certainly respect my husband's love and affection towards his parents. Being his wife I will show a lot of respect and affection to them.
5. Being a teacher in a school, I understand the value of starting a school. I think there is nothing wrong in planning for my future along with my husband. Starting a school requires money and I want my future husband to realise that he has to prudently save just as I do to invest for our future.

Now this is the other side of the divide. If the objection is only to the way the conditions have been communicated(may be in a harsh , direct to the point,language) we can get over the problem because it is the intentions that are more important. If the very spirit is questioned, then I think the boy is not eligible to marry. Cheers.
Shri Suraju,

I can very well appreciate the arguments at 1 & 2 in your post. But this boy is the only son of his parents and the girl knows it. May be I did not give this info. So, the condition that his parents should not come to stay on a long term basis looks bad especially when the girl knows that his parents too are in the same boat as hers. So. the statement at 3 is not relevant. But it can be argued that since they are two daughters the younger one can look after the responsibility of their parents, especially when her marriage is to be performed by the first "maappillai".

Regarding item 4, when the girl puts the condition that her in-laws cannot come and stay with them during their sunset years, what sort of respect and affection will she show to them?

The strangest one is starting the school. In fact the condition was in vague terms about her financial part; it seems she wants to start a school as early as possible. Your advisor girl says, being a school teacher she knows the value of starting a school. If many teachers start having similar ambitions will it be workable? And do you think the estimate of Rs.5 lakhs is realistic? Even a very conservative estimate will show that a primary school in the far-flung suburbs of Chennai in own land (rented premises will not be easy at all to get approval) will cost nothing less than Rs. 40 to 50 lakhs.

The objection is not about harshness or anything but the two conditions I referred to above, especially when the girl knew the boy's background; of course if she had told these to justify that she cannot consider him, it would have been very appropriate. But that was not the case. She has sent an e-mail asking him on what grounds he found her unacceptable!
 
G

ganeshrev

Guest
Just imagining a scenario-

If it had been 15 years ago and the roles are reversed and if the boy had put the condition all that the girl has placed now - Would the boy be looked at the same way as the girl is now looked at.

(Just to clarify, I am not supporting anybody).
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
Received via in box:-courtesy: manoj

hope we all can follow.
Appreciation


This is a powerful message for our modern society.


We seem to have lost our bearing & our sense of direction.


TIME IS NOT JUST MONEY... BUT MORE THAN MONEY...


Dear Sri Ananthanarayanan,

What a wonderful message this incident has conveyed to us. Thanks for sharing.

This reminds me of an incident which I witnessed in my life in 1986. At that time I was working in a Gulf Country heading the Accounts Department of a large Super Market Chain managed by Britishers. My General Manager was an elderly Scotsman from UK, with vast experience in managing Supermarkets. One day our Finance Manager (a Tamil Brahmin) from Corporate Office came with the news that one of our employees suffered a heart attack and had to be sent back to India immediately as per his contract. FM brought the settlement papers of the employee for GM's approval. My GM perused the papers and asked FM whether any compensation was to be paid to the employee for the loss of his health and job? FM replied that as per law,all that the employee would get was his leave salary, Air ticket, gratuity and a month's notice pay. My GM looked at the face of FM and told him that he was not asking about law, but much more than that the divine law called "Compassion". He explained further when the employee joined the Company he was a healthy person, worked for several years honestly, now he had to return home due to health problem with an uncertain future. Further asked, Was it not proper to help him with money at the time of need? Then my GM uttered these wonderful words. He said "If there was a conflict between my head and heart, my heart always wins".And he ordered to pay Six months' Salary as compensation to the employee with assurance of giving him suitable job, when ever he returns back with normal health.

I understood the truth that human Goodness comes from heart, not from head.


Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
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Raghy

Well-known member
Just imagining a scenario-

If it had been 15 years ago and the roles are reversed and if the boy had put the condition all that the girl has placed now - Would the boy be looked at the same way as the girl is now looked at.

(Just to clarify, I am not supporting anybody).

Sow.Sri.Revathi,

Greetings. I am sure you are familiar with green chillies. Smaller and skinnyer the chilli, more hotter it is. In one single sentence, you single handedly shook away all the arguments! Hats off!

Cheers!
 

Raghy

Well-known member
Sri.Raju Sir,

Greetings. Personally I don't see much of a problem with the girl's expectations listed by you. The girl explained in your post is not excluding the care for the in-laws. But the girl's condition in Sri.Sangom's post is quite exclusive of the in-laws. It is a bit hard to consider her as a fair person.

Cheers!
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
raju,

awesome story re this girl and her expectations of life. i wish her well and pray that her dreams become reality.

look at all the complaints of boys, re girls' 'demands'. let us see how many will understand this girl's needs. a while ago, there was a girl of poor financial circumstances who wanted a mate, in another thread. i challenged, so many eligible bachelors here, to step in, marry the girl at their own cost. i hope someone did without telling us, for nobody publicly responded to my note.

i still fear, that our boys' parents are still in the timewarp, atleast those whose sons are still not married by the late thirties. they can try to accommodate the girls' desires and may be come to a new paradigm, that the children jointly support each other's parents.

thank you.

Sri Kunjuppu ji,

I truly agree with your views and I do appreciate your concern and priority for the girls..

A reasonable demand to a capable guy is absolutely justifiable. A capable guy should step in her life, taking the commitment with pleasure and be happy with true satisfaction of heart that he has married a girl from a struggling family and has support her parents and siblings fulfilling his duties as committed and living a meaningful life....A capable guy should believe that, making his family (his wife and children) and his wife's family members happy and progressing in life with his help is more meaningful and justifiable than contributing to the outside people by way of charity and other extravaganza to show off this status. Once a guy and a gal marrying together become one of the member's of their respective in-laws should truly have the heart felt commitment as possible.

But making such demands from a non capable guy is meaningless and unfair...And a capable guy should have a big heart, sense of understanding life, maturity and firm mind to go ahead with his decisions to marry her, accepting his responsibilities.

A girl as an ambitious individual and a responsible member of her family can well define her needs and put forward to guys is no wrong. But it would be highly based on her luck to get such a capable guy with true love and firm commitment to accept her conditions and marry her...

We all can unanimously approve the following -

An educated girl from a well to do family has her own dreams and requirements and wants only a equal or high standard guy - This is OK
An educated guy from a well to do family has his own dreams and requirements and wants only a equal profile/standard girl - This is OK
Today's capable guys are not coming forward to marry a struggling girl with true love and in true spirit - This a absolutely wrong

I wanna know the answer for the below -

Today's ambitious girls from reasonably well to do family with her full rights don't wanna a good character, truly loving and responsible low standard guy even with no requirements & conditions to support in-laws some way - It is right or wrong?

 

Raghy

Well-known member
Sri.Sangom said one girl put down the following conditions -

1. Her parents and her younger sister will live with them.
2. He and she will have to meet the marriage expenses of her younger sister since her parents are poor. (Incidentally, the boy's parents are also of the same social standing and she knows that well.)
3. His parents should not come to live with them on long term basis.
4. She wants to start a school of her own (!) within the next 3 or 4 years for
which the initial investment will be at least Rs.5 lakhs. He should manage to find half the outlay.
5. She will pursue her Ph.D. studies and hence he should not expect her to do household jobs etc.
In most countries (except in Islamic countries and possibly in India & Srilanka), youngsters 'live together' for a period of time to assess the compatibility with each other. These societies don't even pay a second glance to such 'live in' arrangements. The girl in question put down so many conditions; how would she prove to a prospective husband she is worth all the troubles and more? (Before itching to rip me apart, please think again).

Cheers!
 

amala

Well-known member
Today's ambitious girls from reasonably well to do family with her full rights don't wanna a good character, truly loving and responsible low standard guy even with no requirements & conditions to support in-laws some way - It is right or wrong?

Dear Ravi,

I know that was for Kunjuppu mama but please allow me to answer.

Unless it is love marriage (love is blind no?) I fail to see how or why an ambitious well to do girl will want to marry a what you call low standard man. Everybody generally wants to marry "well" or marry "up". If a girl is used to a certain way of living being well to do, how can you expect her to cope with the daily grind and struggle of her new married life to a so called low standard guy?
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Just imagining a scenario-

If it had been 15 years ago and the roles are reversed and if the boy had put the condition all that the girl has placed now - Would the boy be looked at the same way as the girl is now looked at.

(Just to clarify, I am not supporting anybody).

Sri Revathy ji,

Cent percent valid question....I do appreciate your sense of justice and fair mindedness..

When girls were on receiving end, many great reformers did their job to refine the society and many guys gradually changed OR girls took the hardship to reach upward and now are in perfect position to manage themselves effectively.. This is the most welcome advancement in the society.

But is there any scope now for genuinely suffering guys? Or girls can just keep looking in one direction and be proud to have won and remain unmindful of comparatively low profile guys who are having low profiles comparatively due to genuine grounds and are descent guys? Is there any girl out there to carry out reformation movements to safe guard Tambram society for the sake of genuine and descent guys?

Off course can not be...Because its every girls wish to live a comfortable and prestigious life and its shame of such guys to think of marrying a girl with higher profile than his...As per basic human psychology and society’s recognitions..


IMHO, its not about how we are looking at girls now....Its for the benefit of girls too, to be in married life as best as reasonable and at right time as possible..

 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Dear Ravi,

I know that was for Kunjuppu mama but please allow me to answer.

Unless it is love marriage (love is blind no?) I fail to see how or why an ambitious well to do girl will want to marry a what you call low standard man. Everybody generally wants to marry "well" or marry "up". If a girl is used to a certain way of living being well to do, how can you expect her to cope with the daily grind and struggle of her new married life to a so called low standard guy?

Dear Amla,

I agree with you 100%

I do understand human psychology and social set up...


As per Sri Sangom's story, when a struggling girl wants her future husband to shoulder the responsibilities and could not have a luck to get a well to do guy to take this up, can she expect such a guy (as per the story) to undergo hardships? And when he stepped back, is it reasonable for a girl to ask him his clarifications (as indicated by Sri Sangom ji)? What can be her motive to ask him his clarification? Is that she could not understand his capacity or she wanna amend her terms and conditions?
 

sangom

Well-known member
Just imagining a scenario-

If it had been 15 years ago and the roles are reversed and if the boy had put the condition all that the girl has placed now - Would the boy be looked at the same way as the girl is now looked at.

(Just to clarify, I am not supporting anybody).
Smt. Revati,

It may not be 15 or 25 years, but I agree that the greed for dowry was immense. But, at the same time, boys' parents did not even entertain requests from parents (of girls) whom they considered not capable of meeting their dowry demands. If any fool of a parent did go to the boy's parents still, then he had to blame himself for not being able to meet those demands. It was never the boy asking the girl face to face but the elders from both sides.

If a boy's parents had agreed to "penn paarkkal" in those days, it could be presumed that all dowry matters have been settled. There was, as far as my knowledge goes, no instance of the boy asking the girl such financial demands from her side, nor the boy's parents doing it at the time of "penn paarkkal". Hence direct insult to the girl was avoided for such reasons. Of course boys used to reject girls because they did not find them up to their expectations, but such information was also conveyed to the parents, not to the girls.

In this case the girl's parents were not aware of these conditions or else they hid them. The girl, after having agreed to personally meet the boy has spoken to him direct especially when she knew his financial and family background well. Now that she is using e-mail to ask him for reasons, I think she should have used the e-mail to place her conditions first and only if he agreed to them, she should have met him.

In any case girls were not belittled in this way. Perhaps you think it is all OK since it is a girl who is doing it.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Sri Revathy ji,

Cent percent valid question....I do appreciate your sense of justice and fair mindedness..

When girls were on receiving end, many great reformers did their job to refine the society and many guys gradually changed OR girls took the hardship to reach upward and now are in perfect position to manage themselves effectively.. This is the most welcome advancement in the society.

But is there any scope now for genuinely suffering guys? Or girls can just keep looking in one direction and be proud to have won and remain unmindful of comparatively low profile guys who are having low profiles comparatively due to genuine grounds and are descent guys? Is there any girl out there to carry out reformation movements to safe guard Tambram society for the sake of genuine and descent guys?

Off course can not be...Because its every girls wish to live a comfortable and prestigious life and its shame of such guys to think of marrying a girl with higher profile than his...As per basic human psychology and society’s recognitions..


IMHO, its not about how we are looking at girls now....Its for the benefit of girls too, to be in married life as best as reasonable and at right time as possible..

Shri Ravi,

The discussion has branched off in several directions and I welcome that. Basically, every one - boy as well as girl - will desire to "marry up" unless it is a love marriage as correctly put by Amala ji. The point which I wanted to highlight in this particular incident is neither the girl's ambitions nor the relevance or justifiability of the conditions, but she chose to agree to meet that boy in person after the parents had agreed horoscopes and talked to each other and she knew pretty well that she was meeting a financially lowly placed boy who is the only child of his parents, with a not very highly paid job. Should she have insulted him like this? Could she not have told him on phone or by e-mail? It is this arrogance which is the point.
 

Nara

Well-known member
......Therefore, I still stand by my statement that this extremely selfish trend is there among the younger generation, in this particular case it goes against the in-laws of the girl.

Dear Shri Sangom, the two incidences you have cited seem to be third or even fourth hand accounts. To see a trend of such instances you are probably aware of many more such cases that you have not cited. May be, but, I see several problems.

  • These are not first hand accounts, when stories get retold much may be lost or added
  • Even in first-hand accounts, there is always another side, கண்ணால் காண்பதும் பொய், காதால் கேட்பதும் பொய், தீரவிசாரிப்பதே மெய்
  • Why must a boy accept these conditions anyway? There is no compulsion in these matters?
  • What is the basis to think such incidences are becoming more common now to suspect a new trend? Is it not possible that such girls existed even in the past who silently accomplished their selfish interests?
  • Manipulating girls have existed all along. Did not Kaikeyi (her father) lay down conditions for marrying Dasaratha?
IMO, these are never black and white. Each situation is unique with its own nuances. Even though I live in USA, by affinity and circumstance, I have very close contact with many people in India, as do many others in my situation. We get to see the reality as it is, and, due to our western experience, we get to see how it could be as well.

Not too long ago, girls were raised to be obedient, and still are. If they were sent to college it was only because boys wanted educated girls. To be submissive was drilled into them right from childhood. Their own wedding is called "Kannika dhaanam". Once married, she belongs to the family into which she marries. She is supposed to get subsumed in the identity of her husband's family. There was no question of a son-in-law asserting certain rights that may go against his in-laws, there was no such thing.

This is the case even today. They are still not free to be anyway she likes. She still does not have the freedoms her counterparts in the west take for granted. They are still governed by societal norms and the wagging tongues of heartless third parties. Boys wanting girls to work and bring in a second paycheck is one of the important reasons parents are getting their girls qualified for work outside home. A by-product of this is some girls now want more freedoms. This is seen as zero-sum predicament, like any freedom given to the girl is against her in-laws.

A girl who refers to her future parent-in-law as those two-devils is apt to remain unmarried, why would a boy marry such a girl? Barring such extreme cases, girls working out an understanding with her future husband in a reasonable manner is a welcome change. I don't think unreasonably selfish girls are more common than unreasonably selfish boys and unreasonably selfish boy's parents -- I can't say the reverse with the same degree of confidence. With a little bit of accommodation and love, most girls can be won over by the in-laws. Holding the girls responsible for family discord between sons and parents is, shall we say easy. Preventing discord through accommodation and love is hard. The easy way will result in grief for everyone, but the hard way promises rich dividends, a well adjusted family with lots of love and happiness, happiness, happiness .....

Cheers!
 
Last edited:

kunjuppu

Well-known member
...I wanna know the answer for the below -

Today's ambitious girls from reasonably well to do family with her full rights don't wanna a good character, truly loving and responsible low standard guy even with no requirements & conditions to support in-laws some way - It is right or wrong?


dear ravi,

i will give you a viewpoint, but like all comments on generalizations, there are probably more exceptions to the rule. so there is no definite right or wrong answers. except every answer, should begin with 'it all depends'....


ravi, you have made a broad based statement, which i am, for arguement's sake, agree 100%. so we have a gem of a guy, offering himself, and there are no takers.

now in the lottery that is marriage, all we can hope is to have a winning ticket if not the jackpot. unfortunately this gem has no marketable product by today's standards. but there are ways achieve an aim if he has his priorities right and willling to shed a few of his expectations, ie come to the level of market correcting itself.

nobody can force anyone to marry the gem, because he is just that. you are familiar with the situation of our community and i agree with you, that many a good boy gets screwed. in the previous generation, the marriageability of a daughter was a concern. today the tables are turned.

i know of no spinsters of the previous generations in my family, as the family compromised the expectations. to them, an unmarried daughter was more of a concern than the set initial expectations of the girl. many of my cousins, rather unwillingly, married short, fat , bald or older (upt 13 years difference) boys, and made a life out of it. nobody asked them afterwards, whether they were happy. our circumstances did not afford the luxury of happines. only the security provided by a marriage, and whatever joys children could bring. our origins were that humble.

so, along the same lines, if i were the gem of today, i would modify the standards - along the same lines described above. i am quite sure there is bound to be someone out there destined and good luck to him. sticking to an uncompromising expectation is not going to work, from what few details and generalizations that i have.

best wishes....
 

Nara

Well-known member
Just imagining a scenario-

If it had been 15 years ago and the roles are reversed and if the boy had put the condition all that the girl has placed now - Would the boy be looked at the same way as the girl is now looked at.
Revathi, this needs a lot of imagination, even today, why 15 years ago. No boy needs to place these condition, these are automatic, the way they are supposed to be. If for some reasons these "normal" expectations do not come true, it is the girl who will automatically be suspected as the cause -- changed the boy's mind through தலைகாணி மந்திரம்.

With increased economic independence more girls are daring to talk and see what sort of a husband she has to spend the rest of her life with. Any "give" she expects from him is viewed as selfish and unreasonable.

I happen to believe most girls, if treated with love and understanding, will reciprocate in kind, even if she had placed some conditions that may seem unreasonable.

Cheers!
 
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