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A step for Brahmin upliftment

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R

Rudhran

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I would like to share the following message received through Face Book.....

வணக்கம்
அந்தணர் ஒற்றுமை வளர்க


17499561_1594188127277536_5419142574519507806_n.jpg


இன்று நடைபெற்ற கருத்து ஆய்வுவில். அகில பாரத பிராமண சேவா சங்கம். என பெயருடன் ஆரம்பிக்கலாம்மென ஆலோசனைசெய்ய பட்டது.

அதில் தலைவர் −1, துணை தலைவர் −9 பேர், அந்த துணை தலைவரின் தலைமையில்:

1.பிராமண மகளிர் அணி, மகளிரின் இட ஓதுக்கிடு 30% சதவிதத்தில் பிராமண மகளிர்க்கும் சலுகை வேண்டும், பிராமண மகளிர் பாதுகாப்பு போன்றவையாகும்.

2. பிராமண மாணவர் அணி, வேதம், பூஜை, அரசு வேலை வாயப்பில் சலுகை.


3. பிராமண வேலை வாயப்பு அணி. அரசு மற்றும் தனியார் துறையில் அந்தணர்க்கு முன்னுரிமை.


4. சிவ/வைஷ்ணுவ குருக்கள் நலன் அணி. சிவ மற்றும் வைஷ்ணுவ குருக்களுக்கு 7வது ஊதிய உயர்வு பரிந்துரை படி குறைந்த பட்சம் சம்பளம் 21,000/− ஆரம்பம். எல்லா கேயிலும் தங்குவதற்கு இலவச வீடு (மின் வசதி உடன்). வீடு வசதி இல்லையெனில் HRA., அடிப்படை சம்பளத்துடன் சேர்த்து தரவேண்டும்.


5. பிராமண முதியேர் காப்பகம் மற்றும் கோசலை பாரமரிப்பு. ஆதரவு அற்ற வயதான பிராமண இலவசம்மாக அந்தணர் காப்பகம் முலம் பாதுகாத்தல். பசுவை பராமரித்தல் அதற்கு இயற்கை மரணம் மட்டும்தான் நிகழ வேண்டும்.

6. பிராமண மருத்துவர் அணி. இலவச மருத்துவ முகாம், குருக்கள் / பட்டாச்சாரியர்க்கு குடும்பத்திற்கு இலவச மருத்துவ காப்பிட்டு திட்டம்.

7.
அந்தணர் இளைஞர் பிராமண அணி. பிராமண சமுதாயத்திற்கு ஏதேனும் மற்றவர்களால் பிரச்சனை ஏற்பட்டால் இளைய பிராமண சமுதாயத்தோடு போரடுவோம்.

8. பிராமண வக்கில் அணி. பிராமண சமுத்தாயத்திற்கு தேவையான இலவச சட்ட ஆலோசனை வழக்குதல். பிராமண வழக்குகளை விரைவில் நல்ல திர்ப்பு கிடைத்திட.

9. பிராமண மக்கள் தெடர்ப்பு அலுவல். (PRO) பிராமண தேவையான தகவல்களை பாரிமாற்றிட அல்லது உடனே தகவல் தர இவை பணியாற்றும். பிராமண கொடி கலர். காவி. அந்த கொடியி்ல் ஶ்ரீ ராமணுஜர் காஞ்சி மகா பொரியவா மற்றும் ராகவேந்திரா படம் இருக்கும். உங்கள் கருத்துக்களை எதிர்பார்க்கிறேன்.

Source: Message received thro (Aravind C. Sekar) Face Book / Brahmana Sangam/ Brahmins Association.

Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/367386353459514/
 
Brahmins should lift themselves up instead of waiting for someone to lift them.

All this reservation slogans may not help if they are miniscule in number.

States like AP [nearby] or telengana treat brahmins well.

Best find a telugu connection fast for survival.

Even in karnataka with home grown vaishnavite and udipi brahmins , the community is doing well

In UP , Uttarakhand , they are sharing political power.

In west bengal, we have a brahmin CM.

Tamilnadu -only thru self help they can prosper.

They do not have a single leader who carries any weight anywhere..

The last one was CR who was regarded as chanakya no less
 
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My replies in Blue...

Brahmins should lift themselves up instead of waiting for someone to lift them.

Who said that they are waiting for someone…..? And if it is your imagination, you are free to imagine .. sky is the limit. LOL


All this reservation slogans may not help if they are miniscule in number.

So what is your point…?


States like AP [nearby] or telengana treat brahmins well.

And what do you expect….. you want TBs to migrate to Telungana….?

Best find a telugu connection fast for survival.

As it is, absolutely no crisis now as perceived and the TBs know how to take care of them in the event of such situation.
They also know that there are paper tigers to offer more absurd suggestions.

Even in karnataka with home grown vaishnavite and udipi brahmins , the community is doing well

What way your certificate is going to help them. LOL

In UP , Uttarakhand , they are sharing political power.

Good


In west bengal, we have a brahmin CM.

We also had a Brahmin CM for several years. So what...?

Why forget the fact that we have the Brahmin Finance Minister at the Centre, a Brahmin External Affair and Overseas Minister, a Brahmin Minister for Transport, Highways and Shipping . Chemical and Fertilizers Minister, Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Minister, etc

Is this not enough ?


Tamilnadu -only thru self help they can prosper.

Great ... Thanks for your expert opinion.

They do not have a single leader who carries any weight anywhere..

You can come and take the leadership at least from now on if interested.....LOL

The last one was CR who was regarded as chanakya no less

Even now some say we have a Chanakya at Delhi only thing is he is seems to be bit busy with authoring 'Unarthashastra.' .LOL.

[/QUOTE]
 
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Tamilnadu is a state with oppurtunities for those who look for them and capitalise on it.

I have used the quota system to educate my children in best college of anna univ.

I bought real estate in chennai which gives me excellent returns.

I have located excellent matches for my children all brahmins from tamilnadu.

I have utilised the best medical care that tamil nadu is offering ..

At no time I have felt personally discriminated there.

I have built up enough connections to get anything done there without going there.

For women it is one of the safest states to live

When brahmins there put out sob stories about status of brahmins , I only feel it is exaggerated.

Any place is good if one looks at the positive aspects and play down /avoid its negative aspects.

If we reach out to other communities there, they will always reciprocate mostly.

Getting discriminated is a mindset.
 
Tamilnadu is a state with oppurtunities for those who look for them and capitalise on it.

I have used the quota system to educate my children in best college of anna univ.

I bought real estate in chennai which gives me excellent returns.

I have located excellent matches for my children all brahmins from tamilnadu.

I have utilised the best medical care that tamil nadu is offering ..

At no time I have felt personally discriminated there.

I have built up enough connections to get anything done there without going there.

For women it is one of the safest states to live

When brahmins there put out sob stories about status of brahmins , I only feel it is exaggerated.

Any place is good if one looks at the positive aspects and play down /avoid its negative aspects.

If we reach out to other communities there, they will always reciprocate mostly.

Getting discriminated is a mindset.


This posting appears to be nothing but an Autobiography of a self-boasting individual with lot of 'I's...

For example...I bought....I have located.... I have shifted... I have built.... etc etc

Here we are talking about collectively as a community and certainly not about individuals

Anyway nobody is getting discriminated as perceived and in fact all are happy

It is something about getting United.... to show our unity... more parrticularly ... the oneness.

It is about three sections of Brahmins coming together into an undertanding.

It is about discussing problems and possible solutions.

It is about social reforms keeping in view... past,... present and.. future

It is about preparing our young generation to face todays challenges

It is about encouraging bright students who lost their chances due to reservation policy

It is about arriving at a common strategy and follow austerity measures and adhere to traditions, etc etc

It is about working for the upliftment of the community intoto.

Some who wear blinkers don't look at such efforts on the part of Brahmins coming together in proper perspective.

The Forum has great Sadhus who never miss an opportunity to preach.LOL
 
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Brahmins are mostly not good at coming together to jointly pursue any programme.

They spend time only in discussing among themselves and not act for various reasons.

Then they start the blame game.

They also start the persecution stories and feel discriminated .

Has any brahmin ever reached out to any other community for doing anything together.

Even here we cannot do any activity jointly accepting each other as they are.

All this is because brahmins have a sharp intellect which sees through everyone and they start the fault finding game.

If anyone makes an offer ,they start looking for motives .

Unless brahmins act accepting others at face value and assume everyone is good unless proven otherwise repeatedly thru actions and incidents, they can hardly

participate in any community activity.

In my experience, people of all castes, religions are capable of the same emotions and can cooperate with us in any activity.

Only we need to reach out. We should take the initiative instead of moaning over past wrongs and injustices
 
They spend time only in discussing among themselves and not act for various reasons.

Then they start the blame game.


LOL We all know one from Delhi doing this reguarly in this Forum.
 
Brahmins are mostly not good at coming together to jointly pursue any programme.


They also start the persecution stories and feel discriminated .

Has any brahmin ever reached out to any other community for doing anything together.

Even here we cannot do any activity jointly accepting each other as they are.

All this is because brahmins have a sharp intellect which sees through everyone and they start the fault finding game.

If anyone makes an offer ,they start looking for motives .

Unless brahmins act accepting others at face value and assume everyone is good unless proven otherwise repeatedly thru actions and incidents, they can hardly

participate in any community activity.

In my experience, people of all castes, religions are capable of the same emotions and can cooperate with us in any activity.

Only we need to reach out. We should take the initiative instead of moaning over past wrongs and injustices


It may be your opinion.

But the fact remains that a member who always find fault with Brahmins come to this Forum regularly and records his expert opinion which shows the attitude.

The owner of this Forum is kind enough to provide this platform free and there are NB members coming here to contribute. What does this mean....?

Why do you overlook all these good activities.

Do you want anything more ...?

There are people who have 'Frog-in-the-well' mentality and come here to grumble all the time.

There are naysayers.

There are doomsayers.....

There are few with sanctimonious mindset.

There are members
who think too much about themselves.

There are some who think...பூனை கண்ணை மூடிக்கொண்டால் உலகமே அஸ்தமிச்சு போயிடுத்து என்று நினைக்கும் நல்ல உள்ளங்கள்.

It is a mixed bag...
 
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Tamil Brahmins should not concentrate in Politics, as the number is not in favour.

Instead, concentration should be more on education, by pooling funds and helping the needy, and agriculture also.

Free market economy has created more avenues. The basic requirement is hard work and little imagination.

If thee is will, there is a way.
 
Boyyyyyzzzzz!

Stop fighting!

How on earth can even the Atma lift itself if for anything and everything humans start to fight?

Crazy!LOL

Krish ji has a valid point...the 1st thing for anyone who wants to uplift him/herself is to stop whining and get up on their feet.

Stop looking for handouts...take steps to improve self..be self made.

To a great extent we humans like safe mode...not to step out of comfort zone but when resources are less..there is no such thing as comfort zone..it wont exists.

Even if it does exist it would be transient.

So quit fighting and learn to have some Bromance..dear Rudhran Ji and Krish Ji.

Spread the message of love in Forum..I can already imagine you both hugging and kissing each others cheeks!
 
From my point of view the first step would be unity among all the sections and sub-section prevailing under the banner areas or brahmins though not withink India perhaps indeed among south Indians.
Secondly a separate percentage of reservation for brahmins alike other communities in all walks of life

The fearfull, pious practised among the very majority of people should not be exploited

The brahmin communits guys should develop physical courage along with in born intelligentia then only brahmins.dhikshita girls would not wander their mind at the time selection of guys for marriage and fall down on other non-community guys on the ground of brave Ness.

Lot more are there.
 
Boyyyyyzzzzz!

Stop fighting!

How on earth can even the Atma lift itself if for anything and everything humans start to fight?

Crazy!LOL

Krish ji has a valid point...the 1st thing for anyone who wants to uplift him/herself is to stop whining and get up on their feet.

Stop looking for handouts...take steps to improve self..be self made.

To a great extent we humans like safe mode...not to step out of comfort zone but when resources are less..there is no such thing as comfort zone..it wont exists.

Even if it does exist it would be transient.

So quit fighting and learn to have some Bromance..dear Rudhran Ji and Krish Ji.

Spread the message of love in Forum..I can already imagine you both hugging and kissing each others cheeks!


Doctor Mam,

I have to disagree with you, as I expected your opinion is biased and baseless.

First of all the OP is in Tamil language and you yourself had admitted in this Forum your knowledge over this language.

This message being lengthy, I can well presume how far you observed it and understood the points therein.

And it is surprising that you have come here say things which are totally nothing but assumptions and presumptions.

Now can you explain me as to who is whining……?

Who is looking for handouts…..?

In the OP mere information about three Sections of the Brahmins Group coming together with an understanding to Form an All India Brahmins Service Organisation was shared with the members of this Forum as this being a Brahmins Forum.

No monitory contribution was sought for.

Only opinion of the members were sought for.

Instead of offering constructive proposals in this regard, our friend started to grumble from the very beginning.

We are interested only in uplifting the community...

It is nice to see that you have talked about Atma.

I expect some one else will come and give a lecture on Maya and there are veterans with specialization in the fields like Karma, Culture, etc

A nice SHOT IN THE DARK......

Please keep it up.

A can quote Bhagwan Sathya Sai's preaching on such ....... but you will get slighted.


 
Doctor Mam,

I have to disagree with you, as I expected your opinion is biased and baseless.

First of all the OP is in Tamil language and you yourself had admitted in this Forum your knowledge over this language.

This message being lengthy, I can well presume how far you observed it and understood the points therein.

And it is surprising that you have come here say things which are totally nothing but assumptions and presumptions.

Now can you explain me as to who is whining……?

Who is looking for handouts…..?

In the OP mere information about three Sections of the Brahmins Group coming together with an understanding to Form an All India Brahmins Service Organisation was shared with the members of this Forum as this being a Brahmins Forum.

No monitory contribution was sought for.

Only opinion of the members were sought for.

Instead of offering constructive proposals in this regard, our friend started to grumble from the very beginning.

We are interested only in uplifting the community...

It is nice to see that you have talked about Atma.

I expect some one else will come and give a lecture on Maya and there are veterans with specialization in the fields like Karma, Culture, etc

A nice SHOT IN THE DARK......

Please keep it up.

A can quote Bhagwan Sathya Sai's preaching on such ....... but you will get slighted.





Dear Sir...you have adopted a new method to drag in Sathya Sai Baba when dealing with me.

Same dandanaka you tried in Think and Sink thread.

I however have remained neutral on this cos I do understand that some try many stunts to proof a point..so its no big deal for me..even if you drag in Ishwara or Nirguna Brahman.

Yes..My Tamil is not that great even though I speak it well.

I was responding to Krish jis post cos I saw logic in it.

I feel my answer is not biased..its so balanced that even the 3 Gunas might realign themselves.

Hey Madhava Hey Keshava...why do I keep being blamed for having a biased mind?
 
Let me see whether I can lift something up by meddling with it. LOL.

Brahmins as a community had to contend with powerful organized inimical forces in the last generation. These were the so called land reforms, the disappearance of orderly social life due to the Britishers leaving, the hatred based organization of large swath of populations by devils agents like the bigriver etc.,

Briefly touching every one of these:

1. Brahmins were landowners but were not the tillers. The tillers and agricultural labourers were largely from the SC/ST populations. With the independence of the country the middle castes became political masters and they cast an evil eye on the peaceful possession of lands by brahmins. The basic orderly economic activities require the following factors of production to work together in the agriculture segment. They are 1. capital, 2. labour and 3. shared natural resources. So there was nothing wrong in brahmins owning the land without being tillers. They were the capital which is essential for any economic activity. But the organizing minds of middle castes had other game plans and hence when socialism was the Taraka mantra of political activity in the 1950s they twisted and misinterpreted the economic theory and converted it into a tool to gain control of the capital. They used the emotive "tiller owns the land" slogan to appropriate control of the land capital to themselves all the while pointing the accusing fingers at brahmins and shedding crocodile tears for the toiling agri labour. The result is that the economic profile of the villages underwent a huge transformation. The middle castes became the new capitalists owning all the land and agri labour remained wherever it was. Brahmins migrated leaving their agraharams in shambles and with them the agri labour also lost their masters who were partners. In my village with every harvest, right from the threshing yard (களத்து மேடு) the village barber, the village dhobi, the village vettiyaan and every other village common service provider used to get his share of the produce-grains as a matter of right before the owner takes home his share after settling the tiller and agri labour's dues. Now that is all gone. It was a system which had rights, respect and duties all built in in a mutually dependent living. Just one example.

2. We had a civilian administration and jurisprudence which functioned flawlessly and impartially. With the independence came the majoritarianism and its ugly tentacles reaching every instrument of civil administration and jurisprudence. Thus if today you go to police to complain, an FIR will be filed or not depending who you are. A phone call from the politician அண்ணன் to the concerned SHO or the Inspector would result in rejection of your complaint and advice to "adjust and go home peacefully" or even may result in your own arrest. Brahmins have lost faith in these systems long back and largely keep a respectable distance from the justice system.

3. The hatred based politics is well known in TN. A handfull of resourceful brahmin haters were able to organize the masses on the basis of selling the opiate called hatred. They perhaps learnt the trick from Hitler. Hitler sold the same hatred opiate to ordinary Germans by accusing the Jews in Germany for all the economic and social ills of Germany. Similarly the Bigriver and his storm troppers accused brahmins for everything that was wrong there in the society. Hatred is an opiate and it sells well. Bigriver, born to Kannadiga and Telugu parents sold the hatred opiate to Tamils and made them slaves to that opiate cleverly. In order to sell himself (he knew it looks odd for a kannadiga to speak about tamil culture and Tamil society) Bigriver invented a utopia called Dravida Nadu and a non-existent race called Darvidians. He had his success and the poor hapless brahmins suffered in the process. Brahmins were intimidated and hounded out.

As the combined onslaught of these powerful factors were overwhelming, brahmins migrated and found their living space in the crowded anonimity of the urban TN.

More will follow.........
 
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Sri Rudhran,

Just read your opening post.

For any movement and for any organization to succeed, it needs to garner explicit and implicit power.

Explicit power will include money power and political connections to effect change. Implicit power is derived by a lofty vision and mission of the organization rooted in principles of Dharma.

A difficult problem in my mind is how membership in such a group is determined. It could be based on birth based caste as defined by the GOI.
If there is an intent to educate Brahmin castes (in plural) in terms of what it means to be a Guna-Brahmana (as defined in our scriptures such as Mahabharatha) , over time it can pave the way for implicit power.

Explicit power can be gained if prominent people in positions of authority are appropriately enrolled to speak for the organization. In addition, money power can be realized by fund raising across the globe. Obviously the organization needs to be managed without scandals and corruption. In fact, one of the goals of the organization should be for uplift of entire humanity. In the process, current discrimination advanced by many of the middle castes can be exposed and contained.

One of the goals of the organizations is to educate Brahmin castes to educate themselves in our scriptures and to have large families.


PS: Such topic areas rarely enjoyed a good debate and discussions in the past. Best is to stay focused and not dignify certain posts with a response. Better yet is to not even read certain posts based on past history of scatter-brain messages. By not reading, you will not be compelled to respond.
 
1. Brahmins were landowners

....snipped.....

I would be grateful if you can guide me to some authentic sources which clearly indicate brahmins were land owning community.

Sangom, Nara and Happy Hindu in their hey days repeatedly harped on this topic and I did not receive satisfactory replies to this aspect either. Even your personal knowledge of such brahmins (possessing 50 acres of land or more) in sizeable numbers will suffice my query.

To my understanding of history of brahmins, brahmins were endowed with lands for cultivation and consumption as a community, i.e. the property was community owned and not individual owned. The ownership title of the properties also vested in the names of trusts, temples etc. and so it was very easy to deprive the common ownership by taking over Hindu religious establishments for management and also take over the properties under the guise of Land Acquisition.

That is the reason for ALL BRAHMINS BECOMING POOR AND DESTITUTE CUMULATIVELY AND SIMULTANEOUSLY WITHIN A SPAN OF 5-10 YEARS.

The community common properties of Muslims were protected from Government encroachment by enactment of Wakf Act of 1954, but the so called peoples' representative elected Government acted as a PREDATOR in usurping the properties of the so-called upper castes of Hindus.

Brahmins were also large families (of 8 and 10 children per couple) during those days and it would not have been that difficult to parcel out 4-5 acres of land to per family member, if the property stood in the individual brahmin's name.

Why were there no brahmin Zamindars owning huge tracts of agricultural lands, though if the so called seculars (and also later day liberals and fiberals) are to be believed brahmin priests have been fleecing other Hindus of their land, gold, cattle wealth etc. right from the Rg Veda days? How come no brahmin was ever in possession of huge cattle wealth that the yadavs (just to point out one instance) of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh possess?

Why were brahmins living in chawl type two room (no bathroom{only mori}, common toilet facility) train compartment type agraharam houses if such brahmins indeed had huge tracts of land? And they remained dirt poor except during festival seasons. Knowledge of constructing "aRanmaNais" or big palaces or large independent houses was there with them.

Wealthy brahmins who had accumulated wealth due to their profession like lawyers, high ranking government officials remained wealthy and well to do.

Brahmins totally lost out in the 20th century because of his nature of treating his community as his own when the world started to veer towards total SELF INTEREST in the name of NATIONAL INTEREST.

In the absence of authentic land holding data of brahmins in their individual names pre-1960 days it is difficult to assume that brahmins of yore were landed giants.

I feel that the lie that the brahmins were land owners has been so successfully and for so long propagated that even present day brahmins take it as a matter of fact.
 
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I also tend to think that brahmins were only small land owners owning a few acres of land which they gave to the tillers from other castes for cultivation.

When their families were large their holdings got further subdivided.

Most shifted to cities to get higher education due to their own compulsions and nobody threw them out of their houses or usurped their land.

They sold their lands and moved out for better pastures elsewhere.

Some find it convenient to play the victim card.

Brahmins were in the forefront in serving the british govt as lowly paid officials in chennai

Others took to other professions such as lawyers.

They were never zamindars or anything like that IMHO.
 
I would be grateful if you can guide me to some authentic sources which clearly indicate brahmins were land owning community.
Sangom, Nara and Happy Hindu in their hey days repeatedly harped on this topic and I did not receive satisfactory replies to this aspect either. Even your personal knowledge of such brahmins (possessing 50 acres of land or more) in sizeable numbers will suffice my query..................

1) The authentiicity of your source here will be just me. I do not know your background. I have lived in a distant small village in the southern Tirunelveli District where I lived until I completed my graduation. So I speak from personal experience. My village had a street of brahmins (agraharam) where lived all the brahmins of that village. There were 45 houses in which brahmin families lived. The houses were all owned and were not rented except one which was rented out to the local school teacher, a brahmin, who came from another village. All other houses were either lived in or were closed if the owners had migrated. Migration was a slow but continuous process. All the brahmin families owned lands of different extents. There were not maaniyams or brahmadeyams in the village agricultural lands. They were all owned. The other communities also owned lands and cultivated crops in them. There were Pillais, Thevars, Konars, Chettiyars and the SCs and STs. If this is not a satisfactory reply to you, I can't help. I speak from personal knowledge and experience. I have no need to make up a piece of fiction here.

2) If this is the state of my village, I had my paternal grandmother's house at another village in the same district about 30 miles away and my maternal uncle's house in in another district, in Srivilliputur, (he was a retired Army man) which was again far away from my village. I have visited these villages frequently and that is why I am mentioning them here. My relatives living in these villages also owned lands in their respective villages. They too were not brahmadeyams granted to them by any king.

3) I have heared my grandma telling me that her husband was a civil engineer (they used to call them Overseer in those days) and had lived and worked in Madurai for long. As he belonged to my village, he came to settle down in the village after retirement from the Govt. service. In those days buying lands and settling down in native village was the standard for successful retired people of all community. Even among the SC/ST community the men used to go to Srilanka to work in the central hills there in Tea plantations. Once they saved enough they used to buy lands in the village and settle down there. Some of my SC,ST class mates were from such families.

4) In my understanding the brahmadeyams were very few and were large tracts of lands for brahmins who were settled there as a group by kings. This has been done by Cholas, Vijayanagaram Chieftains and a lesser number of Pandyas. This was more in vogue in the fertile Tanjore delta. My village was in a rain deficient, windswept area and we used to cultivate just one crop of paddy in a year and the rest of the time it used to be either maize or chillies. Maize has a stronger stem compared to paddy and can withstand the high velocity winds that swept the plains. Today you have the maximum number windmills in the country in my village and its surroundings.

5) It was love for the land, the home, the village, the relatives and the temple that made the brahmins continue to come back (even from Karachi and London) and settle in these villages. Even today when I go to my village and pray before the Krishna deity there I humbly recall that it is just before this deity that my ancestors of several generations stood and prayed and did Saranagati.

6)
Why were there no brahmin Zamindars owning huge tracts of agricultural lands, though if the so called seculars (and also later day liberals and fiberals) are to be believed brahmin priests have been fleecing other Hindus of their land, gold, cattle wealth etc. right from the Rg Veda days? How come no brahmin was ever in possession of huge cattle wealth that the yadavs (just to point out one instance) of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh possess?

I believe they did not look at the landownership from the angle of aggrandizement. They owned what they could afford and what was needed to live a decent life. So there were no brahmin Zamindars. Though there were brahmin pannaiyars in my area who owned large tracts of land because of acquisition, inheritance and appropriation for money lent and unpaid. An agriculturist's life includes owning land, cattle etc., also. But brahmins owned these just enough for their needs. In my house we had a pair of bullocks and a pair of cows and calves. Two cows were absolute necessity because when a cow dries up because of pregnency, the other cow fullfills the need of dairy products. Huge cattle wealth out of question because that needed full time attention.

Why were brahmins living in chawl type two room (no bathroom{only mori}, common toilet facility) train compartment type agraharam houses if such brahmins indeed had huge tracts of land? And they remained dirt poor except during festival seasons. Knowledge of constructing "aRanmaNais" or big palaces or large independent houses was there with them.

I do not know from where did you get the idea that brahmins lived in two room accommodation. All the agraharams that I know- I know quite a number of them- had houses with many rooms. The villages were chawl type because of security reasons and economy. Remember Brahmins were a small minority in any village and were not capable fo violence. The numbers protected them against any individual attack. My house in the village had a thinnai as you enter it from the street, then a large hall, then a nadai which had a room with safe on one side, then the koodam or Rezhi which was the largest hall in the house where we used play during rains-it was that large, then there was a thaazhwaram and a kitchen side by side, then a mutram flanked by a cattle Kottil, then the backyard with trees, toilets and a well. By no standard can you call this two room busties. And most of the houses in the agraharam were this long except a few which had one or two rooms less. The chawl type common wall was for security purpose.

In the absence of authentic land holding data of brahmins in their individual names pre-1960 days it is difficult to assume that brahmins of yore were landed giants.

Go to any village in Tirunelveli(old larger district and not the new divided entity), Madurai or Ramanathapuram district you will find landownership is much older than what you seem to have understood. It appears your source is second hand and second hand with a lot of intentional filtering.

I feel that the lie that the brahmins were land owners has been so successfully and for so long propagated that even present day brahmins take it as a matter of fact.

Your understanding is wrong.
 
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1) The authentiicity of your source here will be just me. (snipped)

So I speak from personal experience. (snipped)

If this is not a satisfactory reply to you, I can't help. I speak from personal knowledge and experience. I have no need to make up a piece of fiction here.

(snipped)

It appears your source is second hand and second hand with a lot of intentional filtering.

snipped

Your understanding is wrong.

It is precisely because my knowledge could be wrong and second hand source I requested you to guide me for authentic sources.

And because I trust your word, I said that your personal knowledge of such landed brahmins will suffice me.

About other points I will revert on having a thorough read of your post.
 
It is quite clearthat

!. Most brahmins were small landowners and most had a large enough house in agraharam with thinnai, reshi, mutram and a backyard with coconut and other trees , a

well etc > most had one or two cattle for milk .Most used tillers from other castes. What they grew on their land was sufficient to feed themselves if they were a small

family.

If large, some would opt to go to city for employment.

No one took away their lands or house.

Most sold off their lands over the years on migration to cities and their houses in village fell apart due to non use . Mostly the houses in my agraharam collapsed due to

lack of maintenance and land got sold to gulf returnees from another religion.

There is no question of anyone being forcibly eased out.

Brahmins got educated and migrated to cities for better prospects.
 
MY grandfather had 35 Acres of land when my father migrated out of Tamil Nadu in 1910. It was divided 5 ways when he died. It was tilled by contract labor, and I remember my father getting a portion of proceeds from land, till he gave it to his brother who stayed back in the village.

In the north, brahmins and Rajputs controlled all lands. There was a "sub Caste" of Bhamiyar Brahmins who were like the local chieftains in all village. These Bhumiyars act like Rajput, they eat meat, but they also proclaim themselves as brahmins.
 
I also tend to think that brahmins were only small land owners owning a few acres of land which they gave to the tillers from other castes for cultivation.

When their families were large their holdings got further subdivided.

Most shifted to cities to get higher education due to their own compulsions and nobody threw them out of their houses or usurped their land.

They sold their lands and moved out for better pastures elsewhere.


They were never zamindars or anything like that IMHO.

This I agree

During my young days, my parents as well as my close relatives who meet occasionally at family gatherings used to chat glorifying their childhood days.
And during such discussions, they used to mention the huge tract of agricultural lands owned by their families and their life style, share interesting experiences of cultivation, crops, swimming in the river, etc

My mother belongs to a small village in Tirunelveli District near Sankaran Koil and my material uncle who was also a noted Document Writer in Tirulveli used to say that one can even now find the name of my maternal grand father in most of parent documents belongs to that particular village as he was reported to have owned not less than 100 acres.


Similarly, most of our relatives belonging to Chinnammanur , Eechangudi, and Kadalaadi (Near Tiruvannamalai ) were owning agricultural lands measuring several acres.

But they never mentioned they were Zamindars.
 
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Many Brahmins owned some land, in some cases running to a few acres, but not huge tracts of land. However it is not true that there was no usurping. I know/learnt from my family of several cases where Brahmin's lands were usurped, coerced to sell for low rate etc. Yes, nothing comes out from discussing these things now but there is no reason to pretend that it did not happen. In most cases, the village houses were also sold as a result of this land usurping as people wanted to have as much cash as possible when they migrated to cities.
 
But a traditional orthodox Brahmin can not be a Zamindar isnt it?

Isnt being a Zamindar for Kshatriyas or Vaishyas?
 
hi

my grand father had more than 40 acres of ancestral land in palakkad....in palakkad...every brahmin familes had land....

thanks to EMS....every body became pauper....they called PATTAKARA SYSTEM.....even many had hundreds acres of

fertile land.....suffient rain and abundance of water...palakkad dist in kerala is RICE BASKET OF KERALA...

children left agraharam/graman....now not a single brahmin can survive with lands in kerala....so much labor problems...

its reality....this is sad story of brahmins in kerala..
 
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