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A new view on reason for #corruption in india

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Mr Prasad1

You seem to have missed the main point.

It is the small minority -- i.e. those vested with power, vested with discretion to act or not to act, vested with authority to direct others to do their dirty deeds, vested with custody of valuables they can misappropriate -- who are the fountains and deep wells of corruption. (Petty bankers with their cowed parishioners included.)

These are the corrupt ones. The helpless victims are the vast majority of the 1.3 billion inhabitants of this country. These suffer while the corrupt ones grow and prosper. Please do not mix the two classes up.

Do you still support coward faux-nomen "Brian from Godzone" New Zealand, (obviously not his real name or location -- Brainless from Devilzone would be more correct) when he spouts his venomous sermon against us with the universal declaration:-

"Corruption in India is a cultural aspect...... Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption. It is everywhere." ?


Do you still associate yourself with the pernicious mendacious accusation that Indian culture from Mohendo-jaro cave-temples to Thanjavoor Big Temple, from Theruk-koothu to Bharatha-naatyam, from Thottil-thaalaattu to Isvara/Isvari Bhajanas, is truly a culture of corruption?

What are your proposals for getting India rid of corruption? Follow China, hunt down and hang the corrupt without mercy as traitors to the nation? Follow Duterte as he deals with drug pushers -- machine-gun them down?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

krish44

Well-known member
All this talk of india being corrupt in an all pervasive way is irresponsible without much basis.

Inefficiency, incompetence -yes but low level corruption is NO.

I transact with many public officials and forums including banks, municipalities, electricity , water, fuel.pension offices, transport dept RTO licenses.

No where I have felt the need to bribe anyone nor any tout approached me.

I might end up with delays.

It is possible to live without bribing anyone anywhere.

Like advanced countries exchange if any takes place in high value deals to get favoured deals or contracts.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
What are your proposals for getting India rid of corruption? Follow China, hunt down and hang the corrupt without mercy as traitors to the nation? Follow Duterte as he deals with drug pushers -- machine-gun them down?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer


Those are not the example. Take look at Singapore and Lee's leadership.

Incidents of bribery in Rwanda are negligible, anti-corruption watchdog Transparency International says.
Rwanda, which has been striving to rebuild itself following the 1994 genocide, was by far the least corrupt country in East Africa.
Rwanda and its neighbour Burundi were included in the East African Bribery survey for the first time.
Burundi was ranked as the most corrupt nation, dislodging Kenya, where a slight improvement was registered.
The survey measures bribery levels in the private and public sectors and was conducted between January and March this year.




My post was an observation by an individual. There was no solution proposed.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
All this talk of india being corrupt in an all pervasive way is irresponsible without much basis.

Inefficiency, incompetence -yes but low level corruption is NO.

I transact with many public officials and forums including banks, municipalities, electricity , water, fuel.pension offices, transport dept RTO licenses.

No where I have felt the need to bribe anyone nor any tout approached me.

I might end up with delays.

It is possible to live without bribing anyone anywhere.

Like advanced countries exchange if any takes place in high value deals to get favoured deals or contracts.


A family member needed a death certificate for his wife, they would not release the body without a bribe. How long do you wait?
He had to pay Rs. 10,000.00 after negotiation.

I was flying out of Delhi at 2:30 am, It was a crowded plane. We had weighed our luggage before the flight, but when it was our turn to check in, the agent said our bags were overweight, that was a lie. All other agents conveniently walked away, and this agent demanded $500.00 as a bribe. I told him to charge an excess baggage fee, but he would not do that. Then a porter walked in trying to mediate, finally, I paid Rs 5000.00 so that I can make my flight.

To this date, I hate that experience. When I explained this to others that said I should have negotiated better. NO one was shocked.
 

tbs

Well-known member
A family member needed a death certificate for his wife, they would not release the body without a bribe. How long do you wait?
He had to pay Rs. 10,000.00 after negotiation.


I was flying out of Delhi at 2:30 am, It was a crowded plane. We had weighed our luggage before the flight, but when it was our turn to check in, the agent said our bags were overweight, that was a lie. All other agents conveniently walked away, and this agent demanded $500.00 as a bribe. I told him to charge an excess baggage fee, but he would not do that. Then a porter walked in trying to mediate, finally, I paid Rs 5000.00 so that I can make my flight.

To this date, I hate that experience. When I explained this to others that said I should have negotiated better. NO one was shocked.
hi

i agreed both...i had similar experiences in chennai last april 2017....i paid Rs 10,000.00 for my mother's death certificate...

still some mistakes in name of my mother...still not rectified...i paid excess baggage feewith the help of porter like attendent

in chennai airport..i bought a new luggage in airport to adjust some items...i had bitter experiences...in USA airport...

they allowed small two piece luggage in carry on baggage...in chennai airport ..the rule is different for same flight...

i dont want miss the flight for just arguement...so i obliged....MONEY AND INSIDER REQUIRED ANY GOVT WORK IN INDIA...

somebody said in a joke...govt pays salary for the employee to visit the office.....we have to PAY money for work in office...

just in hindi he said....DAFTAR ANE KELIYE SARKARI TANKA....DAFTAR MEIN KAAM KARNE KELIYE AADMI KOPAISA DENA

PADTA HAI...LOL
 
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Raji Ram

Well-known member
........ All other agents conveniently walked away, and this agent demanded $500.00 as a bribe. I told him to charge an excess baggage fee, but he would not do that. Then a porter walked in trying to mediate, finally, I paid Rs 5000.00 so that I can make my flight.

To this date, I hate that experience. When I explained this to others that said I should have negotiated better. NO one was shocked.
No one will be shocked because we are Indians living in India! :cool:

hamArA BhArat mahAn! :angel:
 

zebra16

Well-known member
No one will be shocked because we are Indians living in India! :cool:

hamArA BhArat mahAn! :angel:

Very hard for me to understand people going sarcastic or satirical and including phrases like "hamara Bharat Mahan" etc.

I can point out to many and varied good and unique points of Indians in your OWN posts and they were/are taken so much for granted that no need was felt to add adjective phrases to them. In fact many of the permanent moaners in this forum did not have the time or inclination to even add mere "like" to the said posts leave alone adding their replies.

What makes us just to keep piling up on miseries and continue to wail all our lives?
 
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"Those (China and the Philippines) are not the example. Take look at Singapore and Lee's leadership."

Mr Prasad1

"Desperate situations require desperate remedies." That is why I mentioned China and the Philippines, and their dealings with corruption and with drug trafficking effectively in their respective countries.

Island-nation-state Singapore is no comparison. Before the recent influx of some 1.2 million mainland Chinese, who were granted permanent residence, its Chinese-majority population was about 3 million. All aspects

No bringing in of drugs, even for one's own consumption. No couriering of drugs through Singapore to or from another destination. Mandatory death penalty for drug traffickers. No spitting in public. No littering. No throwing litter from windows or corridors of high-rise flats. No importation of cigarettes. No importation of newspapers from neighbouring Malaysia.

Swift trial and heavy exemplary penalty for defamation. Neither individuals nor foreign newspapers exempted. Super-efficient judiciary system at all levels. Swift execution of court verdicts by the administration. One single political party returned to power at every election since independence.

A one-House Parliament. No Ombudsman. No elections to local councils.

India's population is 1.3 million. Are you sure you can effectively impose, plus effectively and permanently enforce, all these restrictions and much more on all Indians?

After independence, Burma (now Myanmar) expelled all foreigners from the country -- not only the British and Anglo-Indians, but all Indians. The repatriates left with only the clothes on their backs, leaving everything behind. It is now trying to get rid of the alien Muslim Bengalis whose reproductive rate is five times that of native Burmese. (On Partition of Undivided British India, two large homelands were created for India's Muslims. Why has Independent India till today not dared to expel the hundreds of millions of Muslims still within India? Was it not the Muslims who introduced corruption into India, as we have seen?)

India is mired in Kashmir. India is nervously facing off China near the Bhutan border. India was unable to stop the Chinese invasion in 1962. Does India really and truly have the guts and determination to eradicate corruption among the rich and powerful vested interests within the country, come what may? Or even the desire to do so? Who will spearhead the campaign? With what resources?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

krish44

Well-known member
It is the well off in india indulging in and also complaining about corruption.

Places like airport most do not go respecting the baggage limitations of flights or go a little early to sort out last minute issues and end up paying speed money to for easy

clearance.They convey the impression of being well off flaunting the american accent and dollars and end up as ready victim of some touts or airline loaders and support

staff.Places like delhi or chennai airport are notorious for baggage handlers holding passengers to ransom

Even abroad amsterdam schipoll is equally bad. I have had my bag stolen at airport hotel nearby during check in.

Nothing happens to normal passengers who do not have an air of extra rich.

They are left alone normally.

Even cab drivers fleece only foreign indians visiting india.

Once one talks in native tongue , they behave normally.
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
Krish Sir! Your latest post reminds me of my friend.

She used to remove all jewels except the 'kodi' before going to buy veg!

She told me that it makes easy for getting good bargains! :lol:
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
We don't have to brag with Ame'zhi'can accent to be fleeced! Let me tell my experience.

I had to get wheel chair assistance while returning from the U S of A, last year. That assistant guy was very nice; helped to get the

luggage; kept the boxes on the trolley and then pushed my wheel chair up to the taxi stand. When I gave him Rs. 300, he asked me

whether I can give him $ 25 instead! I told him that I gave all the $ bills to my son and have ONLY Indian money. He did NOT leave

before getting a chocolate packet from me! :cool:
 

krish44

Well-known member
You know RRji, even auto drivers in chennai once you say you are local act more reasonably.My wife is from chennai and I let her handle them . In delhi it is the reverse as

this is my hometown.Also we should not flaunt our wealth and instead act as one of them. Then they will be extra kind and share their cup of woes.Life has got expensive and

poor are badly hit by skyrocketing prices of essential items of daily needs.So most try to optimise and overcharge chose they think who can afford it.
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
At the Boston Airport, the wheel chair assistant was happy with the $ 5 I gave him, as per my son's instruction! :)

London Heathrow staff were a bit hostile, even though one was an Indian lady; they made me walk for about 20 mts

and then only provided a battery car to reach the lounge. :sad:
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
Krish Sir! The auto charges are different for travelling with normal dress and with Wedding Reception dress!

We always take a cab to attend receptions, to avoid arguing with the autowallahs. :car:
 

krish44

Well-known member
In delhi airport, if one stays patient and not act anxious, one can avail the pick up.

The trick is to act as if you are not in a hurry to go anywhere.

I always avail the pick up facility and found no real problem.

In fact I have enjoyed going around the country with one leg plastered upto knee.

People are so helpful and kind.

I felt like the hero of the film 'pitchaikaran'.lol
 

biswa

New member
You know RRji, even auto drivers in chennai once you say you are local act more reasonably.My wife is from chennai and I let her handle them . In delhi it is the reverse as

this is my hometown.Also we should not flaunt our wealth and instead act as one of them. Then they will be extra kind and share their cup of woes.Life has got expensive and

poor are badly hit by skyrocketing prices of essential items of daily needs.So most try to optimise and overcharge chose they think who can afford it.


Krishji,

Please do not defend these people. Whether they are poor or not, doesn't give them a right to be dishonest and harrass passengers. Why is it justified to only treat locals well?
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
.......Please do not defend these people. Whether they are poor or not, doesn't give them a right to be dishonest and harrass passengers. Why is it justified to only treat locals well?
:nono: Biswa Sir; locals know how to bargain! :blah:
 

krish44

Well-known member
Even indian govt charges differential rates for foreigners for entry into historical monuments, museums.

The rates are several times the rates for indian nationals.

Why not for local travels also?

Most NRI come from countries with higher incomes and stronger currencies.A few rupees more is not going to hurt them much.

Even within india, small money is more valuable than in large metros.

One can have food at very cheap rates in small cities and villages.
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
Even indian govt charges differential rates for foreigners for entry into historical monuments, museums.

The rates are several times the rates for indian nationals..........
Yeah! Entry fee for Mahabalipuram shore temple is Rs. 10 for Indian nationals and Rs. 250 for others! :popcorn:

May be, the autowhallas learn from the Govt. and fleece the foreign passengers! :heh:

It is rightly said, 'mannan evvazhi; makkaL avvazhi!' :flock:
 

krish44

Well-known member
Even good hotels where foreign tourists and other well off stay.hotel arranges their own car for airport pick ups and drops and local tours. They are far expensive than

ordinary cabs by other operators. Many foreigners prefer them for safety reasons.Most do not mix much with locals.

Only foreign students and others on a budget mix with the locals. more often than not they end up with bad experiences in eateries,shops.

Southern cities are much safer for them
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
I am appalled that even in this group there is no outrage at the culture of corruption.
Members are happy that others are getting fleeced. It is a sad commentary on us Indians.
 
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krish44

Well-known member
Prasadji

One can feel only bad and sad for the poor and not so well off who have to resort to petty corruption to fulfill their basic needs of food , clothes and house.

Should not one feel outraged that such disparities exist in incomes of the poor and the rich?

When the existing order has no answers to correct the disparities and the life of the poor is getting progressively worse in comparison with others, we should be thankful

that they are still law abiding and observe some rules and regulations.

We can at least feel for them and turn a blind eye to their small corruption if any and act a little more generous.
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
I am appalled that even in this group there is no outrage at the culture of corruption.
Members are happy that others are getting fleeced. It is a sad commentary on us Indians.
I am NOT happy, Prasad Sir! But truth is bitter, always!

Govt. shows the way to get more money from the N R I s and the citizens follow. It is a fact, though sad!
 
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