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‘What kind of Hindus are you?’ Mob asks arrested Assam lecturer’s family on not having idols at home

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
A mob of nearly 40 men from right-wing outfits gathered outside a college lecturer’s house in Silchar, Assam, who was arrested for posting derogatory remarks about the prime minister, and asked his family “what kind of Hindus” they were after they found no photos of gods, The Wire reported on Saturday.

The incident occurred on Friday, shortly after police acted on the complaint to arrest Souradeep Sengupta, a guest lecturer at Gurucharan College, from his residence. Sengupta had written about the violence in Delhi and the role of the Hindutva forces in it on his Facebook page.

Sengupta’s family members said the mob had also forced their way into their home while shouting “Jai Shri Ram” slogans, according to The Indian Express. “They were loud and kept on asking what kind of Hindus they were, if there were no photos of gods on their portico,” a relative said. “They refused to leave until he made a Facebook Live video, apologising to everyone for his comments. His mother, who by then was pretty nervous, agreed. Souradeep too had been informed of what was going on, and he rushed back home.”

After the backlash, Sengupta deleted the posts and apologised for “some irresponsible comments about a communally sensitive issue”. His bail application was put on hold and he was sent to judicial custody till March 2.

The lecturer was arrested under three sections of the Indian Penal Code and 66A of the Information Technology Act that defines the punishment for sending “offensive” messages through a computer or any other communication device. The Indian Penal Code sections slapped against him include 295A dealing with deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings.

In his post, Sengupta had reportedly accused the Bharatiya Janata Party and the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the saffron party’s ideological parent, of attempting to recreate the 2002 Godhra riots, in which more than 1,000 people were killed. Prime Minister Narendra Modi was the chief minister of the state at the time.

“People on the street are getting their IDs checked to see if they are Muslim – if they are, they are getting beaten mercilessly,” the teacher had reportedly posted. “All while these terrorists shout Jai Shree Ram. Sanatan Dharma my foot. We elected a mass murder twice as PM – this is what we get. Everyone who voted for BJP should know they sold the country off for a few bucks.”

At least 42 people have died and over 200 injured in the communal violence in North East Delhi.



That shows how ignorant these people are about Hinduism.
Charvaka:

Charvaka, also called Lokayata (Sanskrit: “Worldly Ones”), a philosophical Indian school of materialists who rejected the notion of an afterworld, karma, liberation (moksha), the authority of the sacred scriptures, the Vedas, and the immortality of the self. Of the recognized means of knowledge (pramana), the Charvaka recognized only direct perception (anubhava). Sources critical of the school depict its followers as hedonists advocating a policy of total opportunism; they are often described as addressing princes, whom they urged to act exclusively in their own self-interest, thus providing the intellectual climate in which a text such as Kautilya’s Arthashastra (“The Science of Material Gain”) could be written.

There are many Hindus who do not worship Idols. Hinduism has several school of thoughts ranging from Polytheistic/Pantheistic to Atheistic practices. Belief in God is not a compulsion in Hinduism, so you will find many Hindus who are Atheist, Agnostic, Monotheist, Polytheist, Pantheist etc. If you are only concerned about strict Monotheism which shuns idol worshiping then you just have to go to any Arya Samaj Ashram to meet such Hindus.
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Also some in Delhi were asked to recite Hanuman Chalisa to prove they were Hindus!

Wonder if what would have happened if the person was from Tamil Nadu?
Believe me..even in Msia most south indians do not recite Hanuman Chalisa.
The mob seems totally ignorant!
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
A mob of nearly 40 men from right-wing outfits gathered outside a college lecturer’s house in Silchar, Assam, who was arrested for posting derogatory remarks about the prime minister, and asked his family “what kind of Hindus” they were after they found no photos of gods, The Wire reported on Saturday.

The incident occurred on Friday, shortly after police acted on the complaint to arrest Souradeep Sengupta, a guest lecturer at Gurucharan College, from his residence. Sengupta had written about the violence in Delhi and the role of the Hindutva forces in it on his Facebook page.

Sengupta’s family members said the mob had also forced their way into their home while shouting “Jai Shri Ram” slogans, according to The Indian Express. “They were loud and kept on asking what kind of Hindus they were, if there were no photos of gods on their portico,” a relative said. “They refused to leave until he made a Facebook Live video, apologising to everyone for his comments. His mother, who by then was pretty nervous, agreed. Souradeep too had been informed of what was going on, and he rushed back home.”

After the backlash, Sengupta deleted the posts and apologised for “some irresponsible comments about a communally sensitive issue”. His bail application was put on hold and he was sent to judicial custody till March 2.

The lecturer was arrested under three sections of the Indian Penal Code and 66A of the Information Technology Act that defines the punishment for sending “offensive” messages through a computer or any other communication device. The Indian Penal Code sections slapped against him include 295A dealing with deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings.

In his post, Sengupta had reportedly accused the Bharatiya Janata Party and the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the saffron party’s ideological parent, of attempting to recreate the 2002 Godhra riots, in which more than 1,000 people were killed. Prime Minister Narendra Modi was the chief minister of the state at the time.

“People on the street are getting their IDs checked to see if they are Muslim – if they are, they are getting beaten mercilessly,” the teacher had reportedly posted. “All while these terrorists shout Jai Shree Ram. Sanatan Dharma my foot. We elected a mass murder twice as PM – this is what we get. Everyone who voted for BJP should know they sold the country off for a few bucks.”

At least 42 people have died and over 200 injured in the communal violence in North East Delhi.



That shows how ignorant these people are about Hinduism.
Charvaka:

Charvaka, also called Lokayata (Sanskrit: “Worldly Ones”), a philosophical Indian school of materialists who rejected the notion of an afterworld, karma, liberation (moksha), the authority of the sacred scriptures, the Vedas, and the immortality of the self. Of the recognized means of knowledge (pramana), the Charvaka recognized only direct perception (anubhava). Sources critical of the school depict its followers as hedonists advocating a policy of total opportunism; they are often described as addressing princes, whom they urged to act exclusively in their own self-interest, thus providing the intellectual climate in which a text such as Kautilya’s Arthashastra (“The Science of Material Gain”) could be written.

There are many Hindus who do not worship Idols. Hinduism has several school of thoughts ranging from Polytheistic/Pantheistic to Atheistic practices. Belief in God is not a compulsion in Hinduism, so you will find many Hindus who are Atheist, Agnostic, Monotheist, Polytheist, Pantheist etc. If you are only concerned about strict Monotheism which shuns idol worshiping then you just have to go to any Arya Samaj Ashram to meet such Hindus.
This is selective quoting of only one side of the story.
To get A COMPLETE PICTURE and the kind of forces at work it is necessary to recall
1. Hamein chahiye Jinnawadi azaadi........
2. Hindustan ko tukde tukde kar denge.....
3. The holding of a loaded machine pistol aimed at the forehead of a stunned police man.......
4, The terror factory which had a large consignment of stones, acid filled polythene bags, dandas and bombs....
and speak about them also. Simply put, violence begets violence. Godhra burning of rail coaches and the travelling hindu activists locked up inside those coaches led ultimately to the violence in Ahmedabad. Violence begets violence.
So let us condemn violence by any group irrespective of which faction indulges in it without equivocating.
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
This is selective quoting of only one side of the story.
To get A COMPLETE PICTURE and the kind of forces at work it is necessary to recall
1. Hamein chahiye Jinnawadi azaadi........
2. Hindustan ko tukde tukde kar denge.....
3. The holding of a loaded machine pistol aimed at the forehead of a stunned police man.......
4, The terror factory which had a large consignment of stones, acid filled polythene bags, dandas and bombs....
and speak about them also. Simply put, violence begets violence. Godhra burning of rail coaches and the travelling hindu activists locked up inside those coaches led ultimately to the violence in Ahmedabad. Violence begets violence.
So let us condemn violence by any group irrespective of which faction indulges in it without equivocating.
Look who is talking? What a joke?

Just as you have your right Others too have their right.
You have been parroting the Hindutva views, and you are welcome to it. If you want to start a thread again about your views please go ahead. Don't criticize others for [psting opposing, but factual views.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Look who is talking? What a joke?
Yeah. I expected this from you. The usual mudslinging. What is the joke here? Please enlighten. You have a weird and funny sense of what is a joke. Better improve yourself and wash yourself of the mud.
I wrote a serious reply thinking that what you wrote was serious enough. But it appears you were just joking.

Just as you have your right Others too have their right.
Who denied your rights? Please be specific.
You have been parroting the Hindutva views, and you are welcome to it. If you want to start a thread again about your views please go ahead. Don't criticize others for [psting opposing, but factual views.
Where all I have parroted. Prove with quotes please. Otherwise leave the forum and go and hang because you are becomin g a nuisance to others.
What according to you is criticism? Needs your definition. Will you oblige ? or are you running away?
 

a-TB

Well-known member
I feel Mr Vaagmi's post #3 provided fact based critique of Post 1 for not being balanced. It is a rank hypocrisy to criticize selective violence while leaving out others. Immediately calling someone names intended to be derogatory is in bad taste and immature. It shows inability to debate serious topics. My up vote to Mr Vaagmi's Post 3.

If there is further name calling in this thread that will be dealt with appropriately with a right and fitting response. Let us keep the discussions civil per forum guidelines.
 

GNANA SUNYAM

Active member
from when did Idolatry become part of hinduism?

how did indians' mind get programmed and conditioned that hinduism is essentially idolatry?

in which so-called-hindu-scripture is idolatry mandated?
 

GNANA SUNYAM

Active member
.............
If there is further name calling in this thread that will be dealt with appropriately with a right and fitting response. Let us keep the discussions civil per forum guidelines.
Likewise let uncivilized, uncultured, uncouth, unwarranted, irrational probe into a person's religous affilliation, caste identity also be dealt with appropriately with a right and fitting response.
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
from when did Idolatry become part of hinduism?

how did indians' mind get programmed and conditioned that hinduism is essentially idolatry?

in which so-called-hindu-scripture is idolatry mandated?

As far as I know the Agama shastras have info on moortis( idols) and its prana prathista etc but Upanishadic texts and Geeta etc doesnt talk about worship of anything consecrated.

Its looks as if various forms of worship existed in India and later everything become one unit.

Even Ramakrishna mission which is Vedantic does have image worship of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

Honestly the human mind uses imprints to function to focus..so there is an icon even in an atheist"s mind..that is the idol of his idea of the non existence of God.

I dont think in the true sense anyone can be totally sans an imprint in a conscious state.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
A human mind is by its very nature designed to deal with external reality and its relationship with external reality in a subject- object format only. To think about various aspects of the external reality the mind needs to objectify. And when it comes to the God entity, it becomes all the more necessary because God is an idea without a given perceptible form to know its presence. So the best way to objectify the God idea is to give it a human form ( because this is the best form known to human beings for convenience of dealing with as they have feelings, languages, gestures, experiences etc., which are common and can be understood commonly) or other known forms which are held in awe by humans. When you accept this you have the God idols to which you can shower love and affection treat it as your child, friend, boss etc., fear it, love it, show bhakti or serve it like a servant etc., Idolatry is convenient when compared to praying to a direction or empty space.

So Hindus score over others in this aspect by adopting idolatry.
 

natkaushik

Active member
Our religion isn't hinduism, defined by westerners as the religion advocating a stratified society based on caste hierarchy defined by birth. Indians, mind conditioned by Evangelists' propaganda and 200 years of English education have accepted it totally without enquiry.
It is time to realise that, we hindus of today, have no connection with the Vedic Society of Varṇa Dharma, nor with the subsequent one of Varṇas and Jatis of Varṇa Saṇkara, nor next one of Brahmaṇáss and Jatis based on trade. Today hindus have only two divisions: Vaidikas-Purohitas & Archajas and laukikas- who pursue other professions. This is Hindutvam.
Our oath is
न मे वर्णधर्मा न मे जाति भेदः।
तदेकोऽवशिष्टः शिवः केवलोऽहम् ॥
(Ádi Śankaraḥ)
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Right now the "Idol" in everyone's mind is Covid-19(Corona).
Come to think of it for all the cock and bull we humans describe ourselves to be eg..realized souls, elevated souls, sattva gene,vaagmi gene,the only beings with consciousness blah blah blah...yet a Virus Covid-19 without a sattva gene or a functioning brain or consciousness or any Aham Virus Asmi realization can totally F the whole world!

Man..what a wake up call for entire humanity.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
A human mind is by its very nature designed to deal with external reality and its relationship with external reality in a subject- object format only. To think about various aspects of the external reality the mind needs to objectify. And when it comes to the God entity, it becomes all the more necessary because God is an idea without a given perceptible form to know its presence. So the best way to objectify the God idea is to give it a human form ( because this is the best form known to human beings for convenience of dealing with as they have feelings, languages, gestures, experiences etc., which are common and can be understood commonly) or other known forms which are held in awe by humans. When you accept this you have the God idols to which you can shower love and affection treat it as your child, friend, boss etc., fear it, love it, show bhakti or serve it like a servant etc., Idolatry is convenient when compared to praying to a direction or empty space.

So Hindus score over others in this aspect by adopting idolatry.


Agreed but praying in a empty space is fine too.
Very less maintenance..no need Pooja, no need agarbati, no need naivedhyam...no need lamp,no need murtis etc.

In an empty space our own mind becomes the direction for us to focus on God...our own body is the temple of God..the direction we face is the Dasa (servant) facing the Master(God).

It can be a very enlightening experience too if properly understood.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Agreed but praying in a empty space is fine too.
Very less maintenance..no need Pooja, no need agarbati, no need naivedhyam...no need lamp,no need murtis etc.

In an empty space our own mind becomes the direction for us to focus on God...our own body is the temple of God..the direction we face is the Dasa (servant) facing the Master(God).

It can be a very enlightening experience too if properly understood.
I believe, when a human prays, he/she prays to someone or something. Not to emptiness. The space is just space. I can further go into this and define space further and make this post long long one. But it is enough if we understand that when you pray to the God idea by standing before an idol, you objectify the God idea for your convenience and move further to the prayer proper. You dont have to struggle with emptiness of the vast space. In one beautiful stroke you get over the first hurdle. That is something which I like about Hinduism. Hinduism is that and beyond that as it accommodates the Aham Brahmasmi concept also. But that is a different level.
I cannot pray to emptiness. The subject in me needs an object for any transaction even to realise that I am. Period.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Right now the "Idol" in everyone's mind is Covid-19(Corona).
Come to think of it for all the cock and bull we humans describe ourselves to be eg..realized souls, elevated souls, sattva gene,vaagmi gene,the only beings with consciousness blah blah blah...yet a Virus Covid-19 without a sattva gene or a functioning brain or consciousness or any Aham Virus Asmi realization can totally F the whole world!

Man..what a wake up call for entire humanity.
How far are you away from truth when you say that the Covid-19 does not have a gene nor a brain and nor consciousness! As long as you can not become a Covid-19 you can never be sure. It is like my wondering what does the cockroach on the wall tells me when it twitches its long proboscis and moves its head in all directions freely and looks at me. I find myself pathetically wanting in my ability to know what runs in the mind of that cockroach and what it wants to tell me. So do not be sure. You -if there is a you entity- are confined inside your body and you do not even know the you in you.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
I believe, when a human prays, he/she prays to someone or something. Not to emptiness. The space is just space. I can further go into this and define space further and make this post long long one. But it is enough if we understand that when you pray to the God idea by standing before an idol, you objectify the God idea for your convenience and move further to the prayer proper. You dont have to struggle with emptiness of the vast space. In one beautiful stroke you get over the first hurdle. That is something which I like about Hinduism. Hinduism is that and beyond that as it accommodates the Aham Brahmasmi concept also. But that is a different level.
I cannot pray to emptiness. The subject in me needs an object for any transaction even to realise that I am. Period.


This is where you have not understood it cos you have never experienced Purnam in apparent Shunyam pervaded by Space.
Just like you told me that as long as I have not become Covid-19,I would not really know if it has a gene or brain or consciousness etc.

So you see...an apparent empty space itself is Narayana "Narayana evedagam sarvam"नारायण एवेदगं सर्वम् ..everything is the manifestation of Narayana.

How is it that you only see Narayana in an idol which a human created and fail to see Him in the vast space that He created?

If you only perceive emptiness..you do not see Narayana.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
This is where you have not understood it cos you have never experienced Purnam in apparent Shunyam pervaded by Space.
Just like you told me that as long as I have not become Covid-19,I would not really know if it has a gene or brain or consciousness etc.

So you see...an apparent empty space itself is Narayana "Narayana evedagam sarvam"नारायण एवेदगं सर्वम् ..everything is the manifestation of Narayana.

How is it that you only see Narayana in an idol which a human created and fail to see Him in the vast space that He created?

If you only perceive emptiness..you do not see Narayana.
I give up. Thanks.
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
This is where you have not understood it cos you have never experienced Purnam in apparent Shunyam pervaded by Space.
Just like you told me that as long as I have not become Covid-19,I would not really know if it has a gene or brain or consciousness etc.

So you see...an apparent empty space itself is Narayana "Narayana evedagam sarvam"नारायण एवेदगं सर्वम् ..everything is the manifestation of Narayana.

How is it that you only see Narayana in an idol which a human created and fail to see Him in the vast space that He created?

If you only perceive emptiness..you do not see Narayana.

Logic beats ignorant and blind faith.
Atya Samaj does not believe in Moorty Pooja.

A Murti is an "embodiment of the divine", the Ultimate Reality or Brahman to some Hindus.
The earliest murtis are mentioned by Pāṇini in 4th century BCE. Prior to that the agnicayana ritual ground seemed to served as a template for the temple.

In Hinduism, states Jeaneane Fowler, a Murti itself is not god, it is an "image of god" and thus a symbol and representation. A Murti is a form and manifestation, states Fowler, of the formless Absolute. Thus a literal translation of Murti as idol is incorrect, when idol is understood as superstitious end in itself. Just like the photograph of a person is not the real person, a Murti is an image in Hinduism but not the real thing, but in both cases the image reminds of something of emotional and real value to the viewer. When a person worships a Murti, it is assumed to be a manifestation of the essence or spirit of the deity, the worshipper's spiritual ideas and needs are meditated through it, yet the idea of ultimate reality or Brahman is not confined in it.

 

natkaushik

Active member
OMG! What a westerner says in Wikipedia is Veda vák! How about quoting our acharyas? Arya Samajis have declared to SC that they aren't Hindus. So what they say about Murti Puji is immaterial.
Every Astikan knows that the Vadyar doing pujai, invokes the God to enter the murthi/ picture and requests Him to reside in it, for the duration of the Pujai, and after the pujai bids Him Goodbye. After that the murti is just inert material. It can be thrown away like we do after Vinayaka chaturthi.
 

vembuv

Active member
Once Swami Vivekananda visited King of Alwar in present day Rajasthan. The king in an attempt to mock idol worship told Swamiji, "I've no faith in idol worship. How can one worship stone, wood and metal? I believe people are in illusion and just wasting time!".

Swamiji smiled. He asked the king's assistant to take down the picture of the king that was hanging on the wall. Although confused, the assistant did so. Then Swamiji ordered him, "Spit on the picture!". The assistant was shocked and looked at both of them. Swami repeated again and again, becoming more stern each time. The king was growing angry and the assistant started trembling. Finally, he cried out, "How can I spit on this?

This picture is of our beloved and respected king!".

Swamiji then told him, "The king is sitting in front of you in person. This picture is merely a paper - it does not speak, hear, think or move. But still you did not spit because you see a shadow of your king in it, Spitting on it was like spitting on the king itself." The king looked at Swamiji and bowed down, clearly understanding what he was referring to.
==============================
What does srimad bhagavatam say?
==============================

Attachment for Kṛiṣṇa never wanes; it increases more and more as one attains different stages. All the stages together are called sthāyibhāva, or continuous existence of ecstasy. The nine forms of devotional service are

sravanam kirtanam vishnoh
smaranam pada-sevanam
arcanam vandanam dasyam
sakhyam atma-nivedanam
iti pumsarpita vishnau
bhaktis cen nava-lakshana
kriyeta bhagavaty addha
tan manye 'dhitam uttamam [SB 7.5.23-24]

Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Vishnu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words) -- these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Krishna through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge.
==================
Conclusion :
==================
This is the essence of idol worshiping. God is everywhere, but people want to pray to Him, ask favors, offer food, tell stories, bathe Him, play with Him and do what they do in their lives. Creating a human-like idol creates an image of God as a companion, a guide, a friend, a protector, a giver, a fellow being and so on. An idol is just a concrete representation where they find Him. When I look into the eyes of an idol, I do not see stone or metal, but another pair of eyes looking affectionately at me, smiling. When continuous love of Godhead is mixed with the processes of devotional service, it is called vibhāva, anubhāva, sāttvika and vyabhicārī. The devotee thus enjoys a variety of transcendental bliss.
Photo Credits : ShankhNaad

1584151894177.png


Source: Spirituality and the Vedic Literature
https://www.facebook.com/VedicSpiri...qvzYidO5QyqlFrODCOcP4Zo9uGmi0Bqg&__tn__=EHH-R
 
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