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சூத்திரர்கள் நாமகரணம் புத்ரனுக்கு செய்யும்போது வேத மந்திரங்கள் சொல்லப்பட வேண்டுமா?

ANIRUTH58

Member
வணக்கம்,
ஒரு குழந்தையின் நாமகரணத்தின் போது பல வேத மந்திரங்கள் ஜபிக்கப்படுகின்றன. ஆனால் வேதத்தை அத்யயனம் செய்ய அதிகாரம் இல்லாத நாலாம் வர்ணத்தவர் தங்கள் குழந்தைக்கு நாமகரணம் செய்யும்போது வேத மந்திரங்களை சொல்ல வேண்டுமா? அல்லது அவர்களுக்கென வேறு மந்திர ப்ரயோகம் உள்ளதா? விளக்க வேண்டுகிறேன்.
 

kgopalan

Well-known member
அவர்கலது வாத்யார் அவர்களுக்கு எப்படி செய்ய வேண்டுமோ அப்படி செய்து வைப்பர். வேத மந்திரம் கிடையாது. மற்ற மூன்று வர்ணத்தினருக்கு தேவையான உதவிகளை செய்து கொடுப்பதே போதுமானது.
 

ANIRUTH58

Member
அவர்கலது வாத்யார் அவர்களுக்கு எப்படி செய்ய வேண்டுமோ அப்படி செய்து வைப்பர். வேத மந்திரம் கிடையாது. மற்ற மூன்று வர்ணத்தினருக்கு தேவையான உதவிகளை செய்து கொடுப்பதே போதுமானது.
Dear sir,
If no veda mantram is required, should they perform only the action to be done after the mantras? How can a person differentiate between veda mantram and normal mantrams sir.?
 

Naina_Marbus

Well-known member
வணக்கம்,
..... வேதத்தை அத்யயனம் செய்ய அதிகாரம் இல்லாத நாலாம் வர்ணத்தவர் தங்கள் குழந்தைக்கு நாமகரணம் செய்யும்போது வேத மந்திரங்களை சொல்ல வேண்டுமா? .....

This belief that sudras can"t learn vedas is misguided, since, according to vedas itself a shudra can learn vedas-
Sukla Yajurveda (XXVI. 2). यथेमां वाचं कल्याणीमावदानि जनेभ्यःब्रह्मराजन्याभ्यां शूद्राय चार्याय च स्वाय चारणाय॥
Meaning- The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine."

Even Ramanuja proclaimed it. So who decided that நாலாம் வர்ணத்தவர் வேதத்தை அத்யயனம் செய்ய அதிகாரம் இல்லை
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
This belief that sudras can"t learn vedas is misguided, since, according to vedas itself a shudra can learn vedas-
Sukla Yajurveda (XXVI. 2). यथेमां वाचं कल्याणीमावदानि जनेभ्यःब्रह्मराजन्याभ्यां शूद्राय चार्याय च स्वाय चारणाय॥
Meaning- The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine."

Even Ramanuja proclaimed it. So who decided that நாலாம் வர்ணத்தவர் வேதத்தை அத்யயனம் செய்ய அதிகாரம் இல்லை
Well said friend. By birth nature does not differentiate any child.
It is unfortunate we still cling on to traditions which differentiate one another by birth in the name of Caste.
It was Mahakavi Bharathi who advised children in the following lines:
சாதிகள் இல்லையடி பாப்பா; - குலத்
தாழ்ச்சி உயர்ச்சி சொல்லல் பாவம்.
Sri M R Jambunathan who had translated all four Vedas into Tamil, spent his entire life for abolition of caste differences.
He had dedicated Sathpada Brahmanam Tamil translation at the feet of Harijans:
யஜுர் வேத சத்பத ப்ரஹ்மணம்" என்ற அங்கத்தின் தமிழ் மொழிபெயர்ப்பு நூலை "ஹரிஜனங்களின் பாதகமலங்களுக்கு" சமர்பித்திருக்கிறார் இப்பெரியவர்.
I have written detailed account about this great reformer in my Tamil Blog

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 

Naina_Marbus

Well-known member
Well said friend. ......................................
Sri M R Jambunathan who had translated all four Vedas into Tamil, spent his entire life for abolition of caste differences. He had dedicated Sathpada Brahmanam Tamil translation at the feet of Harijans:
யஜுர் வேத சத்பத ப்ரஹ்மணம்" என்ற அங்கத்தின் தமிழ் மொழிபெயர்ப்பு நூலை "ஹரிஜனங்களின் பாதகமலங்களுக்கு" சமர்பித்திருக்கிறார் இப்பெரியவர்.
I have written detailed account about this great reformer in my Tamil Blog

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
I am happy to find a kindred spirit.
 
This belief that sudras can"t learn vedas is misguided, since, according to vedas itself a shudra can learn vedas-
Sukla Yajurveda (XXVI. 2). यथेमां वाचं कल्याणीमावदानि जनेभ्यःब्रह्मराजन्याभ्यां शूद्राय चार्याय च स्वाय चारणाय॥
Meaning- The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine."

Even Ramanuja proclaimed it. So who decided that நாலாம் வர்ணத்தவர் வேதத்தை அத்யயனம் செய்ய அதிகாரம் இல்லை
🙏🏻👌 I too totally believe with above remarks and quote from the Sukra Yajur Veda that Veda is not for any particular person, group or caste. I am not able to understand why we (Brahmins) ourselves should go against the preachings of Sage cum Aacharya Ramanujar and use the statement “.... ஆனால் வேதத்தை அத்யயனம் செய்ய அதிகாரம் இல்லாத நாலாம் வர்ணத்தவர்...”. Discrimination and division amongst ourselves on certain misunderstood concepts of Veda and rituals have-had paved the way for least understanding (of Veda) population of present day and nonbelievers of god, especially since sixties to redicule our time tested & value based 5000 yrs old Vedic culture. As per Acharya Sri Sri Ramanujar “Om Namo Narayanaya” is a moolmantram and he only made every one to recite wholeheartedly, irrespective of caste, creed, culture and become a Vaishnavan. Being a vaishnavan, at least I am not having any authority to go against his preaching and cannot say xyz do not have the right to say Veda. Yes, to recite Vedic hymns, even if one is a Brahmin he has to be pure in many aspects and follow strict procedures and formalities. Lord Narayana bless all.
 

apunathan

Member
I am not a Brahmin. The admn knew this since at the time of my joining this group, I specifically told them about it. The Admn had been kind enough to admit me yet on condition that I do not write any thing ill that hurts the sentiments of others.
Hence, permit me to air my views. I respect members of the Brahmin community for their dedication and deep attachment to Hindu dharma. A Brahmin is a role model for others in the society.
On the current issue, I am of the view that denial of the right to learn and propagate Vedas by non-Brahmins, if it is not prohibited as mentioned in Sukhla Yajur Veda, would not serve the cause of Hindu unity and consolidation. For social reasons, there has been deepening divide between Brahmins and Non-Brahmins (Sudhras). In the past centuries, when we lived in villages, even when the Brahmins were confined to Agraharams, there was a fair amount of interaction among all the sections of the people and hence less resentment and ill will that prevails now. To strike a personal note, I joined a group where Rudram was taught online. During the course of the learning, the class was abandoned by the teacher midway probably for the reason that there was a non-brahman in the group.
This issue has to be deeply pondered over by the Brahmin community. Their religious functions are still exclusive gatherings where there is no participation of Sudhras. In the religious functions of the Sudharas, it is not complete unless a Brahman priest is invited for conducting the ceremonies.

Bear with me if I had hurt anyone's sentiments. It is only for the purpose of discussion.

P. Ulaganathan
 
I am not a Brahmin. The admn knew this since at the time of my joining this group, I specifically told them about it. The Admn had been kind enough to admit me yet on condition that I do not write any thing ill that hurts the sentiments of others.
Hence, permit me to air my views. I respect members of the Brahmin community for their dedication and deep attachment to Hindu dharma. A Brahmin is a role model for others in the society.
On the current issue, I am of the view that denial of the right to learn and propagate Vedas by non-Brahmins, if it is not prohibited as mentioned in Sukhla Yajur Veda, would not serve the cause of Hindu unity and consolidation. For social reasons, there has been deepening divide between Brahmins and Non-Brahmins (Sudhras). In the past centuries, when we lived in villages, even when the Brahmins were confined to Agraharams, there was a fair amount of interaction among all the sections of the people and hence less resentment and ill will that prevails now. To strike a personal note, I joined a group where Rudram was taught online. During the course of the learning, the class was abandoned by the teacher midway probably for the reason that there was a non-brahman in the group.
This issue has to be deeply pondered over by the Brahmin community. Their religious functions are still exclusive gatherings where there is no participation of Sudhras. In the religious functions of the Sudharas, it is not complete unless a Brahman priest is invited for conducting the ceremonies.

Bear with me if I had hurt anyone's sentiments. It is only for the purpose of discussion.

P. Ulaganathan
Jai Sri Ram
Dear brother (may be son) Sri P.Ulaganathan,
Lord Narayana bless all. If you would have-had read my reply above and conceived the philosophy I wished to communicate, you would not have felt like writing the mistakes done by a few. For Sri Narayanaya or Sri Shiva all his kids are same and Veda never said X is best and Y is bad. Obviously, the teacher/Acharya is revered the supreme, after mother, father, GURU (the Brahmin class meant for as per Varna Sastra) and than only God. Being Guru is supreme, even Kings used to bow in front of Kula-Guru (invariably a Brahmin). So, that doesn’t mean that others are lower or not to be not only respected but not revered. Of 12 Aazhwars, hardly one was a Brahmin (excluding Goddess Aandal). Many were from different Varnas. Sage Valmiki, sage Vishwamithra, etc are live examples. Lord Rama was a Shatheiya, great Ravana- too a learned Guru for Laxmana-half Brahmin & half rakhshasha/tribal, Lord Krishna -a Yadava shatriya, etc. In my opinion and even the Upanishadam says, the Brahmins (the learned Guru clan-not a Caste but a super refined, selectively breeded group of knowledge disseminators-representing Lord Brahmam= Shunyam=Nirakar, etc) are there to show light (impart knowledge) to one and all (no restriction-PROVIDED the person desire to acquire knowledge strictly follows the Gurukula-School disciplines, shishya dharma and Aacharams (personal hygiene, day to day Kriya-karmas in stipulated way) and Vicharams (totally thinking not only for self but for others too with magnanimity & values of a civilized human), etc. The latter dos and don’ts were very stringent to be really followed by those who have not grown up in Brahmin culture and therefore the knowledge imparting by learned gurus were automatically reduced to a few from many. The divine Veda learning is not like doing any present day curriculum only based learning, reproduction in exams and getting degrees or qualification. The Veda learning should go into the soul-the sookshma shariram residing inside the stoola Shariram and should emanate as invisible bright light for others from mouth, eyes, ears, everything a body possess. So, no Brahmin (Gurus) can be or should be blamed for restricted teaching and selective students. Every one knows, in Mahabharatam, Great Karna has forgotten his super-skills when needed in war because of his guru’s curse, not because he was a Kshatriya but because he lied his guru saying that he is Brahmans Puthra. So, self discipline (including Satvik food habits, Satvik thinking, personal Acharams, etc) If one has than I doubt the great sage (even Sri Vashishta Brahmarishi & great Guru) If is alive today, he would prefer to teach that student Veda. Please note: Merely taking birth in a Brahmin family may permit one to apply for a job (like reservation for xyz these days) but that does not qualify him to be selected for professional job, unless until he has the qualities for taking the responsibility of that particular job.
Let everyone, created equally by god, follow or atleast teach their children to abide by life Dharma, without any prejudices on fellow living being ( including animals, plants, trees, even stones and water) and qualify himself to be an able student to learn divine Veda from the most revered Vedic teachers at the earliest and make this Karma bhoomi a Swargalog with Ramarajya. I am sure days are not far off when there will be one & only one clan/community that is Vedic Citizens not only on India but in the world. Possibly, that day is called as the culmination of Kaliyugam and start of Satyugam.
👍👌🙏🏻 to Sri. Ulaganathan for making consistent effort to get enlightened with great powerful supreme energetic hyms- Rudram. In my opinion, the History has an example of great archer Sri.Ekalavya-a tribal / hunter and it is great Dronacharya who actually lost one great student in his life, possibly much more talented than Arjuna. Where the will is there the way is. Best eg. Thrishanku swargam of Sage Vishwamitra (finally adorned by sage Vashishta as Brahma Rishi). Lord Narayana is there for the true bhakthan.
Sorry for a lengthy unsolicited lecture. The super positive energy (god) bless all. Adiyen V.Rajagopalan Iyengar, Bangalore
 

Somayaji.S

Active member
யார் ப்ராஹ்மணர் ?--யார் சூத்திரர்? தன்னை ப்ராஹ்மணர் என்று சொல்லிக்கொள்கின்றவர் வீட்டில் பிறக்கும் குழந்தையும் சூத்திரர்தான்-அத்ரி சம்ஹிதை( Adhri Samhithaa) =>जन्मता जायते शूद्रता=ஜன்மதா ஜாயதே சூத்ரதா =>பிறப்பினால் எல்லாக்குழந்தைகளும் சூத்திரர்களே-- सनसकारौ द्विविज उच्चयेते=> -ஸம்ஸ்காரெள த்விஜ உச்ச்ய்த்தே => இரண்டு சன்ஸ்காரங்களுக்குப் பிறகு "துவிஜர்" என்று அழைக்கப்படுகின்றனர்--वेद पाठि विप्राहाः=>வேத பாடி விப்ராஹ் => வேதம் படித்தவன் விப்ராஹ் -- ब्रम्ह ञानैव ब्राहमनाः => ப்ரஹ்ம ஞானைவ ப்ராஹ்மணாஹ்=> ப்ரஹ்ம ஞானம் அடைந்தவன் மாத்திரம் ப்ராஹ்மணன்---(1) ப்ரஹ்ம விசாரம் --(2) ப்ரஹ்ம ஞானம் (3) ப்ரஹ் ம ஸ்பர்ச ஆனந்த அனுபூதித்வம் உள்ளவன் ப்ராஹ்மணன்/யோகி ( (பகவத் கீதை-6-28) -இதே கருத்து மகா பாரதத்தில் யக்ஷ -யுதிஷ்டிர சாம் வாதத்தில் சொல்லப் படுகிறது -விருப்பம் உள்ளவர்கள் தெரிவித்தால் சொல்லலாம்
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
யார் ப்ராஹ்மணர் ?--யார் சூத்திரர்? தன்னை ப்ராஹ்மணர் என்று சொல்லிக்கொள்கின்றவர் வீட்டில் பிறக்கும் குழந்தையும் சூத்திரர்தான்-அத்ரி சம்ஹிதை( Adhri Samhithaa) =>जन्मता जायते शूद्रता=ஜன்மதா ஜாயதே சூத்ரதா =>பிறப்பினால் எல்லாக்குழந்தைகளும் சூத்திரர்களே-- सनसकारौ द्विविज उच्चयेते=> -ஸம்ஸ்காரெள த்விஜ உச்ச்ய்த்தே => இரண்டு சன்ஸ்காரங்களுக்குப் பிறகு "துவிஜர்" என்று அழைக்கப்படுகின்றனர்--वेद पाठि विप्राहाः=>வேத பாடி விப்ராஹ் => வேதம் படித்தவன் விப்ராஹ் -- ब्रम्ह ञानैव ब्राहमनाः => ப்ரஹ்ம ஞானைவ ப்ராஹ்மணாஹ்=> ப்ரஹ்ம ஞானம் அடைந்தவன் மாத்திரம் ப்ராஹ்மணன்---(1) ப்ரஹ்ம விசாரம் --(2) ப்ரஹ்ம ஞானம் (3) ப்ரஹ் ம ஸ்பர்ச ஆனந்த அனுபூதித்வம் உள்ளவன் ப்ராஹ்மணன்/யோகி ( (பகவத் கீதை-6-28) -இதே கருத்து மகா பாரதத்தில் யக்ஷ -யுதிஷ்டிர சாம் வாதத்தில் சொல்லப் படுகிறது -விருப்பம் உள்ளவர்கள் தெரிவித்தால் சொல்லலாம்
நல்லதொரு விளக்கம் அளித்துள்ளீர்கள். ஆனால் அன்பரின் கேள்வி பொதுவாக கூறுவோமானால் " பிறந்த குழந்தைக்கு நாமகர்ணம் செய்வதற்கு வேதமந்திரத்துடன் செய்வதற்கு வர்ணபேதம் உண்டா?" என கேட்டுள்ளார்.

இல்லை என்பதே என் பதில்.

இங்கு கர்நாடக மாநிலத்தில் எல்லா வகுப்பினரும் தமது தமது சடங்குகளை வைதீக முறையில் வேதியர்களை வைத்து நடத்துகிறார்கள்.
மற்ற வ்யவஹார சடங்குகளையும் குலவழக்கப்படி கொண்டாடுகிறார்கள்.
இங்கு வைதீகர்கள் சடங்குகளை வடமொழியில் செய்யும் போது கூடவே கன்னடத்தில் விவரிப்பது நல்லொதோர் உதவி.

ப்ரஹ்மண்யன்.
பங்களூரு.
 

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