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  1. #1
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    TN to provide separate reservation for Muslims, Christians


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    http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/apr/05quota.htm

    In the midst of a raging controversy over the Supreme Court's stay on the 27 per cent reservation for OBC students in elite educational institutions, the Tamil Nadu government on Thursday announced an 'exclusive reservation' for Christains and Muslims in government services and educational institutions.
    Intervening during a debate on the demands of grants for the minorities department, Chief Minister M Karunanidhi told the state Assembly that the government had accepted the recommendations of the state Backward Classes Commission, headed by Justice M Janardanam, retired judge of the Madras high court, in this regard.
    He said the commission, which had been asked to go into the question, had stated that the report of the Second Class Backward Commission, headed by J A Ambashankar, which went into the number of backward class people in the state, could be the basis for the 'exclusive' reservation for Christains and Muslims.
    The Ambashankar Commission had studied the population of backward class people among the Hindus, Christians and Muslims.
    The government will take legal steps to implement the exclusive reservation for minorities once the Supreme Court prounced its verdict on the 69 per cent reseration case, pending before it, Karunanidhi said.
    He said full details on the exclusive reservation would be announced after consultations with 'friendly parties' of the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam.
    Tracing the history of the social justice movement and reservation in the state, Karunanidhi said the famous 'communal GO of 1921', which had sown the seeds of reservation, included that Muslims and 'Indian Christains' enjoy the benefits of reservation.
    In the 1927 GO, Muslims and Christains were provided with separate reservation on the basis of 'rotation', he said.
    The DMK government in 1973-74 included Urdu speaking Labbies and Tekkani Muslims in the list of backward classes, Karunanidhi said.
    Muslims and Christians had been demanding an exclusive reservation in government services and educational institutions for long and the DMK, accepting their demand, in its election manifesto for 2006 Assembly, had promised to provide separate reservation for them, Karunanidhi said.
    In the state's budget last year, the government had said it would take firm steps for reservation for Muslims and Christians besides urging the Centre to provide separate reservation for minorities, he said.
    The state had asked the state Backward Classes Commission to go into the question of reservation for minorities and had accepted its recommendations in this regard, he said amidst thumbing of desks by DMK, Congress, PMK and Left party MLAs.
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    So how much will be the total percent of reservation in TN?


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    So can someone tell how much wil be the total percent in TN now?


    PS:
    Not sure if these postings could be in a new thread or in this forum. Maybe it should be moved?
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  4. #3
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    Interesting Development


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    Quote Originally Posted by kashyap View Post
    So can someone tell how much wil be the total percent in TN now?
    News trickling in suggests that the reservation (dunno the %) for Muslims & Christians will be within the overall existing percentage.

    Since MK is sure of SC upholding the 69% reservation, he is pinning his hopes on the fact that SC may not have a particular view on how this pie is split. MK is a shrewd guy & surely he would have done his numbers on the political mileage he would get.

    Now key questions according to me are :

    a) This will be a good test of how "united" the anti-brahmin brigade is ? As long as 'brahmins' athirasam' had to be stolen & consumed, they were united. Now it is a different matter that "his athirasam" had to be partaken with someone else ?

    b) Even Muslims & Christians are sub-divided by caste. So what will be the mechanism, if any, to exclude "brahmin muslims & christians" ?

    c) If (b) is a no, whether an "economic criteria" will be used to filter ? If yes, i sense that there could be an uprising in the OBC group from the non-creamy layer.

    d) I still feel this is a masterstroke from the grand old man of Dravidian politics clearly disadvantaging ADMK & MDMK. If he succeeds, he has the M&C votes forever, if he fails - organise another general strike & blame the SC !

    All in all interesting times.

    Couple of tidbits

    a) In tamizh, a corner place is called as "Odhukkuppuram" as in "Naan oru odhukkupurathula irukken" (i am in a corner of a city). With increasing "ida odhukkeedu" (reservation), should the entire State be called "odhukkuppuram" ?

    b) A poser. I believe TN Govt has hired Ram Jethmalani to defend the 69% reservation case. Read recently that RJ while appearing for Manu Sharma's case (another indicator to understand what a "good man" RJ is) had pleaded with the court for an early hearing of the appeal. When all his legal arguments didn't cut much ice, believe RJ tried to put the Hon'ble Judges under emotive stress saying that RJ's astrologer has opined that RJ won't live to see July so RJ should be given a hearing date prior to that.

    My poser is : God forbid, if RJ kicks the bucket, will it be construed to be "Brahminical conspiracy" ?
    நன்றி,
    ஹரி

    அன்பே சிவம்.
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  6. #4
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    hari difficult to believe you are a CA.


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    I think you are a legal expert-cum-detective a la perry mason ( hope I got the name right. or is it perimma's son ?)
    I think you should be in New Delhi now to argue the cases on reservation.
    Good insights.
    So I have a question : What is the justification for giving reservation to Muslims /Christians? They cant be "backward" "castes". ( first time I am double quoting separately two words appearing side by side. What to do? Evything luks so surrealistic now). If they say it is economics, then poor Brahmins merit reservation too. Obviously they cant say that it is the caste . ( I heard that people from all castes including Brahmins were converted to Islam and Christianity for centuries).

    I am bewildered. But I heard that the original 69 was brought in by MGR who did a big stunt. When karu was cm(before mgr's term) it was kept under 50%.
    Even now jayalaalitha seems to be over-zealously supporting reservation in central univs. As I had said earlier it is good if she is not the CM of TN . It is better if she is out of politics. She always tries to be holier than thou - more dravidian(KKK) than EVR to save her skin.
    Last edited by kashyap; 05-04-2007 at 08:20 PM.
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  8. #5
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    sir - courts in india have already ruled that reservations for muslims & christians is against constitution. quotas also cannot exceed50% as per SC ruling. so it is not clear what benefit the so called minorities are going to get because of this. the yellow shawlist is not creating new avenues for anybody. he is only cutting into the existing benefits which the so called 'backwards' are enjoying. even exclusive reservation for muslims & christians will only cut in to existing benefits. this will only lead to more bitterness and rancour amongst various sections of society. instead of taking efforts to take the state upto international standards,the yellow shawlist is taking all of us back to 17th century. ironically even during islamic invasion and british rule, muslims & christians did not enjoy these sort of benefits, i think!
    (If my views are offensive i feel sorry for that)
    Regards
    Suresh.
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  10. #6
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    Muslims not a religious minority in UP: Allahabad HC


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    How about this now?

    In a sensational verdict that may have far-reaching consequences across the length and breadth of the country, the Allahabad high court on Thursday ruled that Muslims were not entitled to a minority status in Uttar Pradesh.
    The verdict came after a writ petition filed by a madrassa seeking funding by the government.
    Issuing the judgment, the bench comprising Justice S N Srivastava declared, "Muslims do not merit to be included as minorities any longer and therefore, should not be entitled to benefits accruing on that account."
    The verdict has caused a major sensation in the currently volatile political circles of Uttar Pradesh where electioneering is in full swing for the seven-phase Assembly poll commencing April 7.
    Moved by Ghazipur-based madrassa Noor-ul-Islam, the petition had sought the court's intervention to get itself included in the list of Islamic institutions entitled to periodical government grants.
    The petitioner had raised objections against "discriminatory practice" by the Uttar Pradesh government.
    The petition said that while the grant was denied to the Noor-ul-Islam madrassa, there were so many other similar minority institutions receiving the same.
    It had also challenged the very basis of including Islamic institutions in the list for grants-in-aid by the government.
    Turning down the plea completely, Justice Srivastava questioned the very minority status of Muslims.
    http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/apr/05up.htm
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  12. #7
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    In view of the UP judgement that muslims cannot be considered minority in UP, I think a corollary could be that brahmins are a minortiy in TN and we can have our own colleges with zero reservation. How about that?
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  14. #8
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    sirs - even as per united nations, a group is considered 'minority' only if they form less than 10% of the country's population. india , being a member of UN, should not consider musims as minority in india, as, they have managed to increase their population to almost 14% of india's total population as on date.
    (If my views are offensive i feel sorry for that)
    Regards
    Suresh.
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    What a miserable life we lead


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    I am surprised by this sudden reservation for religious minorities. I understand that the whole concept is not based on any sense of rationale or fairness. I wanted to know if any data existed on:

    1. How many people who get through in the open category are:
    (a) Part of the OBC group. Among this, what is the economic level of the subgroup. Also what is the education level of the parents of the subgroup
    (b) Part of the forward group. Same two questions for members of the subgroup

    2. What is the statistics among people in the non open category. This would be based on caste, religion, location distribution of the subgroups. Same two questions for each subgroup in this group (economic, educational).

    I think that this data will kill a number of the assumptions that the political groups make. One religious leader said the main reason for not having 50% reservation was that, "Then 50% of the seats will be reserved for the forward group". He had the temerity to say something like this.

    The main reason they get away with this is that:
    -people in the forward group in TN do not complain enough (after all people in India are passionate enough to immolate themselves if Jayalalitha is prosecuted, I think that this is far more important to their lives)
    -people in the non-forward group do not wish to come out and say, "That is unfair, I do not approve of it."

    It reminds me of the book by Nadine Gordimer, "The Conservationist", which was about Apartheid in South Africa. One old man who was poor will hate the unfairness so much, he will starve himself to death in protest. To other people who feel like him, he will become a saint. However, they will say that they cannot protest like him, as, "Not everyone is poor enough to afford greatness."
    Last edited by parunach; 06-04-2007 at 06:34 AM.
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  18. #10
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    Friends,

    I thought the following article is very balanced and intelligent:
    http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1089511

    "
    A judge of the Allahabad high court decided last week that Muslims were no longer a minority community in Uttar Pradesh. He was immediately excoriated for his audacity.

    The Tamil Nadu chief minister, M Karunanidhi, made a whimsical announcement the other day that Muslims and Christians need job quotas, never mind that the courts have repeatedly rejected religion-based quotas as unconstitutional.

    Protecting minorities and minority rights has become such an article of faith with our political unworthies, that nobody bothers to understand where this right comes from.

    For what it is worth, let me repeat the cliché — there is no minority smaller than one. All rights, of minorities or majorities, derive from the basic right of the individual to live a life of freedom and dignity, subject only to reasonable limits.

    In India, minority rights have been expanded to mean any right that a religious (or linguistic) group arrogates to itself on the basis of its own definition of rights.

    To get better educational and job opportunities, Muslims have no need to lobby as Muslims — they are entitled to the same rights as individual human beings. By lobbying for jobs and schools as though they are distinct Muslim rights — a tendency the Sachar committee has unfortunately encouraged — even secular issues are being communalised.

    I have no doubt Muslims face discrimination in India on many counts — but this could be true of many communities. Dalits, OBCs and women can claim the same. Even Hindus see themselves as discriminated against in J&K and some states of the north-east. The upper castes can claim that education and job quotas discriminate against them.

    Let’s be clear: there is no such thing as a perfectly just society. The only thing societies can attempt to do is to consistently try and improve things for everybody so that, over a period of time, no one is too badly off. This is beginning to happen in India.

    A report in The Economic Times, using NCAER data, shows that Muslim households are not significantly worse off than Hindu ones at the macro level. Average annual household incomes for Hindus and Muslims are Rs 61,423 and Rs 58,420 respectively.
    If the Sachar report still paints a picture of ‘discrimination’ against Muslims, we need to seek answers elsewhere.

    One major reason is that Muslims are concentrated in the worst managed states of India, from UP and Bihar to Assam and Bengal. The last two states face an additional problem — a huge illegal influx from Bangladesh, substantially Muslim. In the better administered southern states, there is practically no economic handicap faced by Muslims.

    If you want Muslims to fare better, you don’t need Sachar but improved governance in UP and Bihar — and a fence around Bangladesh.

    Secondly, Sachar offers a rear window view of Muslim backwardness. I believe Muslim problems are largely a thing of the past because of the new dynamics of a market-oriented, private sector-led economy. In a competitive marketplace, only two things matter — competence and diligence.

    The fact that Muslims didn’t get into government jobs in the past is actually a boon in today’s growth environment, where self-employment and entrepreneurial behaviour provide the best avenues for betterment of one’s lot.

    Nearly 60% of the economy is in services, and this is substantially outside government control. I suspect that Muslims hold a higher share of jobs in the services sector than in manufacturing, and this is fortuitous.

    My last reason for optimism on the Muslim economic scenario is the change in psyche the community has witnessed. Two events, Babri Masjid and Gujarat, have conclusively proved to the Muslim masses that depending on the government has been a big mistake.
    It can neither save them from communal elements nor provide them with the means to improve their economic condition. Only improved education and personal effort will deliver the goods.

    If I were a Muslim, I would invest all my efforts in educating myself and my children, ignoring the political cacophony for reservations and special treatment. Sachar is perhaps the last concerted effort by a phony secular establishment to drag Muslims back to the era of overdependence on crooked politicians and vote bank politics.

    Email: r_jagannathan@dnaindia.net
    A judge of the Allahabad high court decided last week that Muslims were no longer a minority community in Uttar Pradesh. He was immediately excoriated for his audacity.

    The Tamil Nadu chief minister, M Karunanidhi, made a whimsical announcement the other day that Muslims and Christians need job quotas, never mind that the courts have repeatedly rejected religion-based quotas as unconstitutional.

    Protecting minorities and minority rights has become such an article of faith with our political unworthies, that nobody bothers to understand where this right comes from.

    For what it is worth, let me repeat the cliché — there is no minority smaller than one. All rights, of minorities or majorities, derive from the basic right of the individual to live a life of freedom and dignity, subject only to reasonable limits.

    In India, minority rights have been expanded to mean any right that a religious (or linguistic) group arrogates to itself on the basis of its own definition of rights.

    To get better educational and job opportunities, Muslims have no need to lobby as Muslims — they are entitled to the same rights as individual human beings. By lobbying for jobs and schools as though they are distinct Muslim rights — a tendency the Sachar committee has unfortunately encouraged — even secular issues are being communalised.

    I have no doubt Muslims face discrimination in India on many counts — but this could be true of many communities. Dalits, OBCs and women can claim the same. Even Hindus see themselves as discriminated against in J&K and some states of the north-east. The upper castes can claim that education and job quotas discriminate against them.

    Let’s be clear: there is no such thing as a perfectly just society. The only thing societies can attempt to do is to consistently try and improve things for everybody so that, over a period of time, no one is too badly off. This is beginning to happen in India.

    A report in The Economic Times, using NCAER data, shows that Muslim households are not significantly worse off than Hindu ones at the macro level. Average annual household incomes for Hindus and Muslims are Rs 61,423 and Rs 58,420 respectively.
    If the Sachar report still paints a picture of ‘discrimination’ against Muslims, we need to seek answers elsewhere.

    One major reason is that Muslims are concentrated in the worst managed states of India, from UP and Bihar to Assam and Bengal. The last two states face an additional problem — a huge illegal influx from Bangladesh, substantially Muslim. In the better administered southern states, there is practically no economic handicap faced by Muslims.

    If you want Muslims to fare better, you don’t need Sachar but improved governance in UP and Bihar — and a fence around Bangladesh.

    Secondly, Sachar offers a rear window view of Muslim backwardness. I believe Muslim problems are largely a thing of the past because of the new dynamics of a market-oriented, private sector-led economy. In a competitive marketplace, only two things matter — competence and diligence.

    The fact that Muslims didn’t get into government jobs in the past is actually a boon in today’s growth environment, where self-employment and entrepreneurial behaviour provide the best avenues for betterment of one’s lot.

    Nearly 60% of the economy is in services, and this is substantially outside government control. I suspect that Muslims hold a higher share of jobs in the services sector than in manufacturing, and this is fortuitous.

    My last reason for optimism on the Muslim economic scenario is the change in psyche the community has witnessed. Two events, Babri Masjid and Gujarat, have conclusively proved to the Muslim masses that depending on the government has been a big mistake.
    It can neither save them from communal elements nor provide them with the means to improve their economic condition. Only improved education and personal effort will deliver the goods.

    If I were a Muslim, I would invest all my efforts in educating myself and my children, ignoring the political cacophony for reservations and special treatment. Sachar is perhaps the last concerted effort by a phony secular establishment to drag Muslims back to the era of overdependence on crooked politicians and vote bank politics."

    Pranams,
    KRS
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