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  1. #1
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    Revoke of Life Sentence in Rajiv Assassination Case....


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    Today The Honorable High Court of Madras has suspended The Hang Order given to Santhan,Perarivalan,and Murugan.

    We have to Welcome the Honorable Order of The Court.

    Meanwhile The UPA Govt at Center is Delaying the Hang Orders given to Afsal Guru and Kasab.

    Afsal Guru is The Culprit in Parliament Attack Case and Kasab is one among the 9 Terrorists caught alive in Mumbai Attacks which costed damage to Crore worth Property and about 200 lives of Innocent People.

    Above all The Govt is spending many crore money towards his security and Meals.

    He is now given VVIP Treatments,in Cell.

    The Govt is Protecting These Culprits for want of Minority Votes.

    Our beloved Forum Members are requested to Flash their opinions in This Regards.
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    Dear T.S. Sir:

    I am certain this topic will evoke lot of debate on this forum. This issue has been the core of the justice system all over the world and we are not an exception.
    Personally, I have battled within myself several times toeing Gandhian line that 'eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' vs a more pragmatic approach that heinous crimes must be prevented. Unable to reach a conclusion that answers both moralists vs pragmatists, I looked up only this morning if there is any guidelines in Hinduism against capital punishment. After all, I like most of the members here are God fearing and wanted to see how our religion dictated for or against capital punishment, surprisingly I could not see a line on capital punishment in Hinduism.

    Parmatmananda Saraswati, Co-ordinator of the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha, in an Oct./Nov./Dec. 2006 article "Capital Punishment: Time to Abandon It?" published in Hinduism Today, stated:
    "Capital punishment is allowed under Hindu tradition. Lord Rama is the embodiment of dharma, yet he killed King Bali, who had stolen his own brother's wife... Sometimes I feel that the crimes today are even more heinous than in the past. Hence capital punishment, if sanctioned by the scriptures, should continue."

    Oct./Nov./Dec. 2006 - Parmatmananda Saraswati

    "Samvidananda Saraswati, Head of Kailash Ashram, in an Oct./Nov./Dec. 2006 article "Capital Punishment: Time to Abandon It?" published in Hinduism Today, stated:
    "Hinduism is full of compassion and forgiveness. Leave aside human beings, we are supposed to be kind even to insects and animals. We are not supposed to kill a small insect. Therefore, taking the life of a human being is a very big issue for us. Our Hindu dharma is very clear that use of violence against anyone is not allowed. Any other type of punishment may be given, but we should not take anyone's life. Our scriptures and Vedas do not favor capital punishment. They advocate the principle of nonviolence."

    Oct./Nov./Dec. 2006 - Samvidananda Saraswati


    Secondly, the Indian government has not carried any death sentence since 2004 yet over 100 convicts were sentenced to death penalty last year alone. If the government approach is not to allow capital punishment (even after sentencing to capital punishment, in many cases clemency has been issued against these sentences), why bother issuing it and wasting tax payer money?

    My 2 cents: asmuch as I am a staunch believer in God, Hinduism, I am of the opinion that crimes committed by larger groups such as jehadis, other terrorists need to be answered by death penalty to send a strong message that such crimes will be dealt with seriously; vs, crimes against individuals committed in rage may be looked at differently toward reforming these individuals taking into account the motive and circumstances.
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  4. #3
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    I too admit What You say....

    But UPA Govt is playing Double Standard in Hanging Afsal Guru and Kassab ​who Challenged Indian Administration,which is a Prestige Issue.

    When The Indian Govt is supporting Yasar Arafat for his Rebel against Israel and not supporting the Liberation for Freedom by Indonesian Tamils.

    This is because The Rebel Groups in Indonesia were Hindu Tamils and The Govt in Indonesia is a Muslim Govt.

    Soaping Muslims for want of Vote is a Deliberate Violation of Humanity.

    The Very Same Method is adopted in Sri Lankan Tamils also.

    No Indian will Justify Rajiv Assassination.

    But Why The Govt Took 11 hard years to Drag to give the opinion of Honble President? and also why Dragging to Hang Afsal Guru and Kasab?

    The result is all for Vote.
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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servall View Post
    ...., surprisingly I could not see a line on capital punishment in Hinduism.
    Servall, I think what you mean by the term "Hinduism" is the the Hindu canon -- scriptures, smrithees, ithihasa puranas. Then, I think you are making an effort to not look, for, even a brief and casual glance is sufficient to see capital punishment in them. Impalement was one of the favorite it would seem in the olden days. Decapitation is another.

    Given this, I just can't understand how anyone with a straight face can claim the following. It is nothing more than a self-serving attempt to rewrite history.

    "... Our scriptures and Vedas do not favor capital punishment. They advocate the principle of nonviolence."
    The fact is, to be strictly Vedic and being committed to non-violence is a contradiction in terms. The very reason Gautha Buddha rejected the Vedas was to reject the violence endemic in it and embrace a philosophy of non-violence.

    Secondly, the Indian government has not carried any death sentence since 2004 yet over 100 convicts were sentenced to death penalty last year alone.
    This a valid point.

    My 2 cents: asmuch as I am a staunch believer in God, Hinduism, I am of the opinion that crimes committed by larger groups such as jehadis, other terrorists need to be answered by death penalty to send a strong message that such crimes will be dealt with seriously; vs, crimes against individuals committed in rage may be looked at differently toward reforming these individuals taking into account the motive and circumstances.
    Servall, there is a logical fallacy in this. Jehadis by definition are not deterred by capital punishment, they embrace death in their Jihad as a direct ticket to paradise where they expect to frolic. So, capital punishment is no deterrent against the Jehadis. The only reason then for capital punishment is revenge. My two cents -- revenge sentiment will never do any good to anyone.

    Cheers!
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  8. #5
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    Here is an 'analysis' of the situation:
    http://www.politicsparty.com/DMK_TOP...MOHAN_GOVT.php
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  10. #6
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    Recently I saw an argentinian movie, ‘the secret in their eyes’, which won 2010 oscars, for the best foreign language film.

    Part of the story, a man’s wife is killed by someone she grew up with in her village. The murderer is caught and sentenced to life imprisonment, as argentina has done away with death penalty.

    The husband of the dead woman is satisfied that justice is done. he reasons, that with death penalty, four bullets and quickly you are punished and gone. Whereas with life imprisonment, every day is a living hell, as you are incarcerated and have enough time to think of your crimes.

    It so happens, that argentina was going through right wing dictatorship at this time. The murderer becomes an informer, and snitches on the political prisoners. As a reward, he is set free.

    When the husbands eventually finds about this, he is very upset.

    He kidnaps the murderer and keeps him prisoner..to current time, ie about 20 years.

    When the main character visits the husband in an isolated place, he also gets a chance to meet the imprisoned murderer, who after 20 years of living alone, is now gone crazy. The murders begs abjectly, the main character, to convince the husband, to atleast talk to him. The silence of 20 years has been killing him worse than any death penalty.

    So, dear friends, life imprisonment is not all a bed of roses. Indian jails are not 5 star hotels inspite of what he hear happening to kassab. Commuting death penalty to life imprisonment, in fact may be worse. The penalty is now prolonged to a lifetime and that can extend to 50 years for some.

    I thought I will share an alternate viewpoint. That is all.
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  12. #7
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    In their own country these people do not get much of a good treatment. Moreover Sonia's daughter had visited these convicts. Hence I feel there is no justification for reducing their sentence. If they are given life term, (I think it is 14 years now) and in another few years they will be back creating more trouble for us.
    एकं सद्विप्रा नैव जानन्ति ।
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  14. #8
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    Nara Sir:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nara View Post
    Servall, I think what you mean by the term "Hinduism" is the the Hindu canon -- scriptures, smrithees, ithihasa puranas. Then, I think you are making an effort to not look, for, even a brief and casual glance is sufficient to see capital punishment in them. Impalement was one of the favorite it would seem in the olden days. Decapitation is another.
    Including those quotes was only to show different lines many of our so called Hindu leaders prescribed with regard to capital punishment. What really our scriptures, vedhas and religion as a whole dictated on capital punishment I am not aware of. You seem to have vast knowledge in this area and I appreciate your comments.

    What I really wanted to say was my own inner battle as to how I would address capital punishment. On the one hand I want to be a humanist and be a Gandhian and follow the faith that capital punishment is not the real answer to punish an individual vs I put myself in front of those unfortunate victims who ended up losing their lives for no fault of theirs. What is the retribution or how do we answer the kith and kin of those poor commuters in Bombay rail station when Kasab killed them mercilessly, those people who literally leaped out of the twin towers during 9/11 and Rajiv Gandhi?

    Servall, there is a logical fallacy in this. Jehadis by definition are not deterred by capital punishment, they embrace death in their Jihad as a direct ticket to paradise where they expect to frolic. So, capital punishment is no deterrent against the Jehadis. The only reason then for capital punishment is revenge. My two cents -- revenge sentiment will never do any good to anyone.
    You also claim my battle is a fallacy; I dont think the founding fathers of Jehadism believed in suicide bombing and killing people mercilessly. If a bunch of convoluted few jehadis who twisted the fundamental jehadists principles to secure their own personal agenda take it upon themselves to harbour on these heinous crimes, are we going to simply take those on the premise that capital punishment is not going to deter them, so why bother sending them to hallows? You see today, more and more of these jehadis are teenagers like Kasab following blind faith and unscrupulous leaders and dont you think capital punishment consistently of these convicts would send them a strong message, it will never be tolerated. Are we going to correct the future jehadis from making the same mistakes or simply surrender to them?

    Mr. Kunjuppu:

    So, dear friends, life imprisonment is not all a bed of roses. Indian jails are not 5 star hotels inspite of what he hear happening to kassab. Commuting death penalty to life imprisonment, in fact may be worse. The penalty is now prolonged to a lifetime and that can extend to 50 years for some.
    If Mr.Nara's belief is that capital punishment is not going to deter them and they will keep coming, why are we trying to reform these dudes? I say we dont need them, let us give them capital punishment and at least not waste tax payers money like we do with Kasab. Sorry I sound being insensitive, just to show how I am fighting my own inner battle on this subject.

    Good day
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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servall View Post
    ...If Mr.Nara's belief is that capital punishment is not going to deter them and they will keep coming, why are we trying to reform these dudes? I say we dont need them, let us give them capital punishment and at least not waste tax payers money like we do with Kasab. Sorry I sound being insensitive, just to show how I am fighting my own inner battle on this subject.

    Good day
    serv,

    we give employment to the jailors. if we start beheading everyone, then the jails will go empty. whereas we can have them as prisoners, and make them live on bread and water, keep them alive and maybe blast michael jackson music loud 24 hours of the day. that would be a good punishment.

    the arguement against death, is that it is too quick. only 10 seconds of suffering.

    btw who pays taxes in india anyway. maybe you live in the usa?
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  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servall View Post
    If Mr.Nara's belief is that capital punishment is not going to deter them and they will keep coming, why are we trying to reform these dudes?
    Servall, So, your position is, kill them to deter, and if that won't deter, kill them anyway? Perhaps this is just an emotional response, to which you are of course entitled to. But, a liberal and civilized nation can't run its affairs on emotions.

    I think most reasonable people will agree that capital punishment will not deter future jihadists, and may in fact serve to encourage them to carry out more attacks. I submit to you, this does not mean we just give up. A more nuanced and enlightened approach is called for, one that will erode the casus belli of the jihadist groups.

    You mentioned 9/11. It was a terrible act, the utter nihilism of the act was stunning. For many weeks I used to wonder how can anyone bring himself to destroy a splendid monument to human ingenuity, twin peaks, jutting out 400 meters into the sky, signature magnificence, defining the NY skyline, etched in the minds people the world over. Yet, this terrible act did not happen in isolation. To wrap oneself in jingoism and ignore that part of the events is to almost literally invite more attacks.

    We mourn the 3000 innocent lives lost on that fateful day, we do. But how many even care for the number of lives lost far away in lands never heard of, perpetrated by U.S. and the brutal dictators it supported, from all corners of the world? If we need to understand the U.S. establishment mindset, look no further than some of the supposed to be left leaning journalists. Here is a small sample of that mindset, from an Op-ed from Roger Cohen of NYT.

    In the end, I think interventionism is inextricable from the American idea. If the United States retreats into isolationism, it ceases to be itself -- a nation dedicated, however much it falls short, to a universalist ideal of freedom.
    Cohen is proud that interventionism is an inextricable U.S. idea, take it away , it is not U.S. anymore. I for one cannot but include this kind of thinking as one of the important reasons for all those innocent people who preferred leaping out of windows to certain death than to remain and be burnt to death. To be emotional and visit retribution on the Kasabs of this world may feel good for a day, but solves nothing.


    You also claim my battle is a fallacy;
    Sir, no, I did not say that. The very fact that you are conflicted about this deserves respect. The fallacy I was talking about is to expect capital punishment to be a deterrent against jihadists, that is all, no more, no less.

    Servall, it is not as hopeless as you seem to think. I for one think U.S. dominance, and by extension the dominance of the west, is on the decline. This is good news. The future is going to be a multi-polar world, one in which the dominated will have an equal say in matters that affect the world affairs. This is the way to beat jihadists, not to try to kill them, that is a Sisyphus task.

    Cheers!
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