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Temples, Temples and Temples

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I am starting this thread at the request of many friend here.

Here we will discuss about the evolution of the temples, their significance, real histories, and also little known facts about many well known temples.

The postings here may sometimes go against current beliefs and may seem irreverent.

I have been accused of being irreverent. This view is shared by my friends and family members. I am irreverent.

Please bear this in mind while going through the postings.
 
Evolution of Temples

The early man was afraid of the forces of nature over which he had no control. Later he deified them as Gods. Fire, Wind (Storm), Sun, Earth as Agni, Vayu, Surya, Prithvi and so on. Vedic times. But there were no temples then. Vedic Seers used sophisticated mental imagery to describe the Gods. It is seen in the Vedic Sukthams. They did not need a physical image.

But to the common people who tilled the land, mental images were beyond their comprehension. They had to have an image. Again for agriculturists earth was more important than anything else. They called her Mother. Mother worship started then.

Why Mother and not Father. The relationship between a Mother and Child is more intimate than between the father and Child. Again in the old societies with community living it was easier to identify the Mother than the father. The father was more often than not at home. He left for foraging food, hunting and later for fighting the wars. Remember the story of Sohrab and Rustam.

Even today most of the people of the world call their country Motherland. Mother India, Mother Russia. Of course there are exceptions like Germany where they call the country Fatherland. The language we speak is called Mother tongue.

So they put up a couple of stones to represent Mother nature. Later they constructed a hut to protect these from rain and storm.

This is how temple worship started.
 
Thank you, sangom for the encouragement.

Again Why Mother not father? Mothers are known for their kindness. They give us our first food. Breast Milk. Fathers are generally known for their enforcement of discipline and Punishment. In most families at least in India the children always place their requests to the mother and the Mother conveys it to the father and gets his approval.

As Sankara said

kuputro jayate kvachadapi kumata na bhavati

O MOTHER, a child can be bad, but a mother can never be bad!


Now coming back to evolution, temples were not only erected for forces of nature, but also other forces. In many places in India we feel the presence of some force which is incomprehensible to us. At first it evokes fear. Then we think of appealing to the force not to do us any harm and if possible help us. A temple is erected in that place. We place a couple of stones. This is Pinda Rupa. You read about many temple like Vaishno Devi where the deity is in Pinda Rupa. These are places where an Force was/is existing. In most all such cases it is Sakthi because we trust Mother and most of these were in inaccessible places in hills and forests.

This is also the origin of Swayambhu Lingas and other Swayambhu Murtis.

I will write in detail how this phenomena has lead to often repeated stories of How Hinduism took over Tribal deities. Of course it did not take over, but absorbed them into mainstream Hinduism.

Almost all the Devi shrines in Kerala belong to this category.

I have seen this happening.

In Vazhuthacaud, Trivandrum, there is a tree which was haunted by a Yakshi. Stories of this Yakshi became known throughout Travancore. Then someone erected a couple of stones and called it Yakshi Amman. Of course stories of how they pacified the Yakshi abound. About 30 years back ( I am not sure of the time) they erected a pucca temple there.

Yaksha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a Siva temple in Kottarakara near the famous Maha Ganapathy temple. This is older than the Maha Ganapathy temple (which is actually a Siva temple). Inside the temple there is a small wooded portion called kavu walled in. They do not allow women. Of course my wife walked in. When you enter that wooded portion you feel the presence of some non-human force/presence. It generates fear. I have felt this in many Kavus in Kerala.

Once I was out hunting along with friends in the Nelliamapathy forest in Kerala. Midnight. We were chasing some wild animal. Suddenly the Jeep stopped. My friend swore "Oh! We are stuck now." and asked us to get down. We asked him about his remarks. He asked us to look at the surroundings. We were in a small clearing within the deep forest. Though it was windy in the forest not even a blade of grass moved in the clearing. Absolute silence. We were told that all vehicles would cease to function in the clearing. We pushed the jeep out of the clearing and it started again. I have always wondered What was it in that clearing in the middle of the forest?
 
T.

Even today most of the people of the world call their country Motherland. Mother India, Mother Russia. Of course there are exceptions like Germany where they call the country Fatherland.

I think Russians also call their country Fatherland.
 
Thank you, sangom for the encouragement.

Again Why Mother not father? Mothers are known for their kindness. They give us our first food. Breast Milk. Fathers are generally known for their enforcement of discipline and Punishment. In most families at least in India the children always place their requests to the mother and the Mother conveys it to the father and gets his approval.

As Sankara said

kuputro jayate kvachadapi kumata na bhavati

O MOTHER, a child can be bad, but a mother can never be bad!


Now coming back to evolution, temples were not only erected for forces of nature, but also other forces. In many places in India we feel the presence of some force which is incomprehensible to us. At first it evokes fear. Then we think of appealing to the force not to do us any harm and if possible help us. A temple is erected in that place. We place a couple of stones. This is Pinda Rupa. You read about many temple like Vaishno Devi where the deity is in Pinda Rupa. These are places where an Force was/is existing. In most all such cases it is Sakthi because we trust Mother and most of these were in inaccessible places in hills and forests.

This is also the origin of Swayambhu Lingas and other Swayambhu Murtis.

I will write in detail how this phenomena has lead to often repeated stories of How Hinduism took over Tribal deities. Of course it did not take over, but absorbed them into mainstream Hinduism.

Almost all the Devi shrines in Kerala belong to this category.

I have seen this happening.

In Vazhuthacaud, Trivandrum, there is a tree which was haunted by a Yakshi. Stories of this Yakshi became known throughout Travancore. Then someone erected a couple of stones and called it Yakshi Amman. Of course stories of how they pacified the Yakshi abound. About 30 years back ( I am not sure of the time) they erected a pucca temple there.

Yaksha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a Siva temple in Kottarakara near the famous Maha Ganapathy temple. This is older than the Maha Ganapathy temple (which is actually a Siva temple). Inside the temple there is a small wooded portion called kavu walled in. They do not allow women. Of course my wife walked in. When you enter that wooded portion you feel the presence of some non-human force/presence. It generates fear. I have felt this in many Kavus in Kerala.

Once I was out hunting along with friends in the Nelliamapathy forest in Kerala. Midnight. We were chasing some wild animal. Suddenly the Jeep stopped. My friend swore "Oh! We are stuck now." and asked us to get down. We asked him about his remarks. He asked us to look at the surroundings. We were in a small clearing within the deep forest. Though it was windy in the forest not even a blade of grass moved in the clearing. Absolute silence. We were told that all vehicles would cease to function in the clearing. We pushed the jeep out of the clearing and it started again. I have always wondered What was it in that clearing in the middle of the forest?
Just a small correction, for the sake of perfection:

kuputro jāyetaḥ kvacidapi kumātā na bhavati
 
There is a Siva temple in Kottarakara near the famous Maha Ganapathy temple. This is older than the Maha Ganapathy temple (which is actually a Siva temple). Inside the temple there is a small wooded portion called kavu walled in. They do not allow women. Of course my wife walked in. When you enter that wooded portion you feel the presence of some non-human force/presence. It generates fear. I have felt this in many Kavus in Kerala.

Once I was out hunting along with friends in the Nelliamapathy forest in Kerala. Midnight. We were chasing some wild animal. Suddenly the Jeep stopped. My friend swore "Oh! We are stuck now." and asked us to get down. We asked him about his remarks. He asked us to look at the surroundings. We were in a small clearing within the deep forest. Though it was windy in the forest not even a blade of grass moved in the clearing. Absolute silence. We were told that all vehicles would cease to function in the clearing. We pushed the jeep out of the clearing and it started again. I have always wondered What was it in that clearing in the middle of the forest?
I faintly remember to have read Nanditha Krishna's , (kin of C.P. Ramaswami Iyer and who heads CPR Foundation ) mention of the temple forests in one of her writings.
Rgds.,
 
Thank You, sangom and SwamiTaBra.

Mother Motherland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have had some interaction with CPR foundation long time back.

I do not claim my writings to be original. But they are mostly based on personal experiences. Another advantage is that I am not a mere academic but a Bhaktha.

I have a lot of advantages in that my writings are not directed towards any particular audience since this can be assessed by any one on the net. And most important I do not have to bother about my personal image since my name is a pseudonym.
 
fantastic start nacchi.

i have this query to the public. how do we keep the purity of the thread ie stick to the intent of nacchi?

for example (& this is only an example) swami countered that russia is termed as fatherland. to me it is not true. during the deepest dark days of 1942 when moscow was within the sight of nazi guns, stalin evoked the patriotism of the russians and appealed to fight for mother russia.

but this is digression, and in so eagerly looked forward to thread (atleast by me), i am wondering, if we should start a parallel thread which refers to posts here and perhaps provide an avenue for tributary discussion, while the main river of thought flows on here.

just a thought folks!!
 
fantastic start nacchi.

i have this query to the public. how do we keep the purity of the thread ie stick to the intent of nacchi?

for example (& this is only an example) swami countered that russia is termed as fatherland. to me it is not true. during the deepest dark days of 1942 when moscow was within the sight of nazi guns, stalin evoked the patriotism of the russians and appealed to fight for mother russia.

but this is digression, and in so eagerly looked forward to thread (atleast by me), i am wondering, if we should start a parallel thread which refers to posts here and perhaps provide an avenue for tributary discussion, while the main river of thought flows on here.

just a thought folks!!

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

I suggest that let the river flow in its course, and let the small leaves or debris float in it, just as in nature. But let Nacchinarkiniyan not bother about the distractions, unless somebody addresses a post to him by name and it is a really valid one. This, I think, will be in tune with the general trend in this forum.
 
....So they put up a couple of stones to represent Mother nature. Later they constructed a hut to protect these from rain and storm.
Hi, sometime back Happy cited a book by D.D. Kosambi that traced the origins of temple worship. He argued that the so called "nadu kal" representing fallen heroes in battles at cross roads was the origin of idol worship which grew into temple worship. I request Happy to chime in.

Cheers!
 
Hi, sometime back Happy cited a book by D.D. Kosambi that traced the origins of temple worship. He argued that the so called "nadu kal" representing fallen heroes in battles at cross roads was the origin of idol worship which grew into temple worship. I request Happy to chime in.

Cheers!

Every one has his/her own theory. Then the practice of "nadu kal" commemorating warriors is an ancient Tamil practice. There is no evidence to suggest that this practice was prevalent in other parts of India.

To argue that this is the origin of Idol worship is in my opinion too far fetched. Then theories abound.

This theory does not also explain the temples situated in hills and jungles which were populated by indigenous people.

Some of the village Deities in Tamil Nadu may be traced to this practice.
 
fantastic start nacchi.

i have this query to the public. how do we keep the purity of the thread ie stick to the intent of nacchi?

for example (& this is only an example) swami countered that russia is termed as fatherland. to me it is not true. during the deepest dark days of 1942 when moscow was within the sight of nazi guns, stalin evoked the patriotism of the russians and appealed to fight for mother russia.

but this is digression, and in so eagerly looked forward to thread (atleast by me), i am wondering, if we should start a parallel thread which refers to posts here and perhaps provide an avenue for tributary discussion, while the main river of thought flows on here.

just a thought folks!!

I did not make an assertion that Russians call their country Fatherland. I just faintly remember to have read while as schools that Russians call their country as Fatherland. I stand to be corrected if what I said was wrong.

Sir, I agree with you that the course of the thread should be what it is intended to be by the initiator --- for that matter I am strong votary of such a discipline.

However let me remind you Sri Sangom had observed that such distractions are not uncommon in this forum in one his posts (if I remember right it was Shraddha Mantram).

I request the moderator of the forum to remove this post of mine after ensuring that it has been read by you (Sri Kunjuppu) and Sri Sangom.

With regards,
 
Temples are Sources of Power.

We have seen how temples were erected in places where there was an unexplained source of power.

Now Hindus believe that you can invoke powers by reciting Mantras. The entire Vedas are called mantras.

The Samhita (Sanskrit saṃhitā, "collection"), are collections of metric texts ("mantras"). There are four "Vedic" Samhitas: In some contexts, the term Veda is used to refer to these Samhitas.
This was expanded later by the Agamas/Tantras with the introduction of Yantras.

The Agamas

?gama (Hinduism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Agamas laid down the principles of construction of a temple, invocation, worship and other rules.

The temples especially in Tamil Nadu are constructed according to the Agamic rules.

What is essentially done here is that you invoke a deity and invest it with Powers with the help of Yantras and Mantras. Even many of the later temples though they do not follow the Agamic rules, follow this system of empowering the deity with Yantras and Mantras.

The temple is itself constructed in the form of an Yantra and the Garbagraha is the middle of the Yantra with the deity placed in the center/Bindhu.

Most of us would have attended the Kumbabishekam ceremonies of temples. But what is more important is Punar Uddharanam ((rejuvenation ritual) which is also done. Of course Kumbhabishekam can be done without Punar Uddharanam also.

You would have heard of Balalayam. Now what is Balalayam?

Balayalam is a miniature temporary structure erected during the renovation and Kumbhabhishekam ceremony in a Hindu Temple. The divine presence of the main deity in temple is transferred from the murti worshipped to a Kalasha. This Kalasha is place atop the Balalayam. ‘Baala’ means mini and ‘Aalaya’ means temple or structure in Sanskrit.

During the Jeernodharana (renovation period) of a temple, the divine presence of the Murtis is transferred to the holy waters contained in the Kalasha (pot). Pooja is done to these Kalashas and Ustava deities (the small murtis of the main murti of the temple that are used during processions).

The Kalashas remain in a miniature structure known as Balalayam. During this time the devotees will not be able to see or do poojas to the moola vigrahas or murtis worshipped in a temple. The scheduled poojas will be done only to Utsava deities.

The divine presence of the temple deity will in the Kalashas atop Balalayam until it is transferred back to the Moola vigrahas or the main murti. Scheduled Poojas to Moola vigrahas will start only on the Kumbhabishekam day.
Now a number of Homa Kundas are set up and Homas take place. You might have noticed a long thread of Dharbai grass which runs from the Homa to the garbagraha. This is the route the power takes from the Homa to the main Deity. The power is also transferred through the medium of Kalasa water.

Talking about Punar Uddharanam, the deities are reinstalled in their pedestal using Ashta Bhandana (eight fold cementing). I remember the time when my entire family was involved in pounding the Ashta Bandana material (which came in hard blocks) to a paste.

I would love to hear the personal experiences of other members in Temple Kumbhabishekams.

Please note the central idea of invoking Powers through Mantras. This explains many of the changes in the mode of worship later.

I have not talked about how Idol worship originated because this is not part of my article. The putting of stones by the indigenous people at the source of power is to show how some of the temples originated.

Temple worship seems to have been in vogue during the Epic and Puranic periods. In Mahabharata we do hear about Rukmani going to a Kathyayani/Durga temple from where she goes off with Krishna.

Not many people know about Vaikhasanas. Vaikhanasas are a surviving school of Vedic ritual, the Taittiriya sakha of the Krishna Yajurveda. Temples and images with the Vaikhanasas are of more importance than perhaps any other sect of Hinduism They are the Adi/original Vaishnavas of Tamil Nadu. I understand that not many families are surviving today. Sad. They could be the first to introduce temple worship.

Vaikhanasas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I did not make an assertion that Russians call their country Fatherland. I just faintly remember to have read while as schools that Russians call their country as Fatherland. I stand to be corrected if what I said was wrong.

Sir, I agree with you that the course of the thread should be what it is intended to be by the initiator --- for that matter I am strong votary of such a discipline.

However let me remind you Sri Sangom had observed that such distractions are not uncommon in this forum in one his posts (if I remember right it was Shraddha Mantram).

I request the moderator of the forum to remove this post of mine after ensuring that it has been read by you (Sri Kunjuppu) and Sri Sangom.

With regards,

I would reiterate that the 'distractions' can and should remain because they add spice to the thread as long as they are within subject matter/s and do not transgress into poster's personality. Otherwise simply reading about temples also will be as "dullifying" as say learning (any) veda by rote which, a rigvedic rishi himself says is like, at the advent of the rainy season, one frog croaking and then a lot of frogs croaking like cacophony. (BTW, if this was veda-learning during the time of the rigvedic rishi himself, what more certificate can be expected today!!)
 
Dear Nachhinarkiniyan Sir,

Am chiming in a few things here so that readers can have an additional perspective on the origin of temples and idol-worship (in addition to your posts).

Before I begin, I must say that am an ardent admirer of Arya Samaj and therefore my post might be seen as supportive of them.

In Nov 1869, Swami Dayanand Saraswati (SDS), the founder of Arya Samaj, participated in a debate (on shastrArtha or meaning of shastras) with the orthodox pundits at Benaras. The topic was whether or not murthi-puja (idol-worship) was sanctioned in the Vedas.

The debate was in Sanskrit and was arranged by the local ruler (raja) of Kashi. SDS insisted that rote-memory of the Vedas will not do and requested the physical presence of the copies of the Vedas. Details of the debate can be read from page 69 to 70 from this book: Hindu iconoclasts: Rammohun Roy ... - Google Books

Before I go on to the details why idol-worship is not there in the Vedas,
I would like to re-produce one paragraph on the debate from that book (SDS is called Swami below):

-------------------
The question was then raised whether the word pratima occurs in the Vedas. Dayananda admitted that it did but denied that it referred to an image or idol. So too with the word purana, where again the Swami said that purana in the vedic context did not refer to the books called puranas, but means “old” or “past”. One of the pandits produced two leaves of the text and claimed that they referred to recitals of puranas after a yajna. Dayananda asked him to read the text. Instead the pages were handed to Dayananda and while he spent a moment perusing them, the other pundits stormed out, claiming he was defeated. By some accounts, Dayananda was pelted with objects by the crowd and had to be escorted out by the police. This outcome did not deter Dayananda; he engaged in subsequent debates on idol-worship in important cities, including Bombay. His preferred mode, however, became the public lecture rather than the debate or disputation.
---------------

Arya Samaj publications (usually in Hindi) provide details of various debates and public lectures of SDS. Reg the above debate i must add these notes:

1) The word pratima occurs in Rigveda, in Rig 10.130 The Rig Veda in Sanskrit: Rig Veda Book 10: Hymn 130 which is immediately after the Nasadiya Sukta. While the Nasadiya Suktam wonders on creation, the Riks 10.130 that immediately follow it are talking about the origin of sacrifice. The verse 10.130.3 says “कासीत परमा परतिमा किं निदानमाज्यं … The lines convey a wonderment about the परमा (best / supreme / absolute) परतिमा (likeness). It is rather apparent that pratima here refers to likeness of something and not a murthi (idol).

2) The word purana occurs only once as such in Rig 10.39.5 but elsewhere it occurs as a compound word as puranamokah, puranananu, etc. In each place it is referring to something “old”. In Rig 10.39.5 the verse “ पुराणा वां वीर्या..” (tranlit: purana vam virya..) is referring to ancient heroic deeds of the ashvinas.

The Kashi pundits tried obfuscation, by claiming that the word “puranas” refers to the texts called Puranas and that the word Pratima refers to murthi-worship.

It is unfortunate that even from then to now there are some orthodox ‘pundits’ who know to read the Devnagari script but do not know Sanskrit (they can read Sanskrit, recite verses aloud but they do not know the meaning of the verses).

Idol-worship is not mentioned in the Vedas. Even Atharva-Veda has verses only for abhichara magical rituals and mentions things like talisman (mantrichha taithus, or talisman energized with mantras). It does not mention a murthi (idol) as a prayer object.

However, considering that the atharva-veda was into “visible objects” of veneration, one speculative angle is that the lost shakhas of the atharva may have had idol-worship, but these people were most probably destroyed. There is also some research that the atharva-vedis were the vedic-dasyus but i am not able to recollect the book or the author (a german name) who had researched this.

Here we must take into consideration that an image has been mentioned in the rigveda, which is of Shishnadeva. However, the vedic people disregarded it. Some context is on this is here: http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...ion-interpretting-scriptures-6.html#post66184

It is rather apparent (to me) that the vedic people were not into imagery worship.

If idol-worship is mentioned (approved) anywhere in the Vedas, I request the readers to kindly present the relevant verses here please.
 
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Vedas are ancient. It may be a presumption to say that common people who tilled the land had to have an image. On the other hand, it is more probable that vedic farmers were invoking the elements of nature (elemental-deities) for a bountiful harvest; and not idols at that time.

Must mention one angle of research here. It pertains to the idea that the vedic leaders were named after the spirits (gods) whom they venerated (maybe just like we name our children after gods). Hence, there are one set of verses where the elemental-deity is invoked (Ex: Indra the nature-element for thunder, rain) and another set of verses where the leader is praised for his war deeds (Ex: Indra, the leader-king, in the dasarajna war).

These posts may have some context with the temple-origin discussion:
1) http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...ion-interpretting-scriptures-3.html#post66020
2) http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...on-interpretting-scriptures-10.html#post67058

Temple worship and imagery is closely associated with veneration of battle-heroes. The earliest temples were rock-cut like those of mahabalipuram. Even earlier than that, battle images and prominent role-players were drawn on the walls of caves. It is quite expectable to think that their legends were remembered and offerings in remembrance of them were offered. The concept of a kula-deivam is comparable to the ancestor-worship of the Chinese, wherein the god of each kula (clan) was considered some ancient ancestor or benefactor or protector of that tribe. Some more context is here: http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...ion-interpretting-scriptures-7.html#post66427

The vedic-proper people praised their leaders in their verses. But there appears to have been an other set of people (perhaps the atharva-vedis or perhaps totally unrelated to all the vedic groups) who venerated their heroes and their memory in statue by giving them a ritual bath (abhishekham), anointing them with scents, chanting verses in their praise, and showing adoration with flowers, etc (like the abhishekham / puja as we do today). However, temple worship is from the agamic religion and not the Vedas. I think Sangom sir has touched upon this somewhere but not able to recollect which thread. Sangom sir, i request you to please contribute your info on idol-worship also, to this thread.

Regards.
 
Vaikhanasas claim to be a surviving school of Vedic ritual, the Taittiriya sakha of the Krishna Yajurveda.

The problem is that this claim is not accepted even by other Vaishnavas who consider this worship to be Agamic.

Other than this every one accepts that Temple worship did not exist during the Vedic period. The worship was only Yagyas.

I am sure neither the Pundits of Kasi nor Dayananda Saraswathi have heard of Vaikasanas. Of course Dayananand Saraswathi considered all South Indians to be Dravidians.

As I said earlier theories abound regarding the origin of Idol worship.
 
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Even today worshiping of deities without an image is common in villages and among the hill people. What they worship is a force. My ancestors had put a a couple of stones at the boundary of our paddy fields to represent Sastha, a guardian deity. We still worship there. No idol there. But in a nearby village where again my ancestors had put up stones among the paddy fields, the villagers have converted it into a regular Sastha temple.
 
Vaikhanasas claim to be a surviving school of Vedic ritual, the Taittiriya sakha of the Krishna Yajurveda.

The problem is that this claim is not accepted even by other Vaishnavas who consider this worship to be Agamic....
I don't know about other Vaishnavas, but SV do accept both Vaikanasa and Pancharatra agamas and they consider both to be words of god and therefore authentic and valid.

Cheers!
 
It will be very interesting to see if the Vaikhanasa Agama had some Atharva-Veda links in the past, before being 'absorbed' into the Yajurveda group.

Idol worship must be very ancient. The fact that Shisnadeva is mentioned in Rigveda attests to the fact that Lingam worship was present even during the Rig samhita period (although the rig devas were opposed to shishnadeva dasyus).

The Egyptians preserved their kings by mummyfying their bodies and carving out a statue that represented the dead-king in his after life. Defacing the statue was blasphemy.

The agamic religion is similar. It beleives in energising the statue and in magical powers (brought about using specific tantras and mantras).

Unfortunately we do not know if the dasyus had produced literature. It is more likely they were into symbolism and oral-tradition (guru-shishya upanishadic type tradition), instead of a written tradition.

The word "dasyu" is said to come from the root word das, meaning "to destroy". They must have been into "destruction of self-ego" and 'self-surrender', considering the fact that the religion of the dasyus was meditation and yoga. But to the Rig-vedis they were possibly destroyers of their crops.

As yet, we do not know the exact reasons why the Rig-vedis fought against the dasyus. One theory is that a dispute may have arisen amongst the priests of the Rig and Atharva in very early times, possibly on theistic ideologies (since the Rig and Atharva are remarkably similar and diverged later). Much later, their long-standing face-off must have worsened due to fights for arable land. This may have finally lead to the dasarajna war (battle of the ten kings).

Following this, the atharva-vedis must have fled and sought safe sanctuary in the south-india (considering the fact that atharva-veda surfaced in the south much earlier than any other veda). These athava-vedis (imo) must have been the paarpans (the temple-priests who see god everyday) and the anthanars (the followers of yoga / philosophers).

The Brahmanda Purana says there are no Brahmins in Kashmir, Abihira, Kambhoja, etc. But i feel these place must have had paarpans and anthanars -- and they were probably not recognised as brahmins by the "vedic-proper" group even during the smrithi period. By 'vedic-proper', I mean the Rig, Sama and Yajur vedic groups.

These temple-priests (paarpans) and philosophers (anthanars) must have been wide-spread across the sub-continent and even beyond (possibly southeast asia) in primitive (tribalistic) times.

Later these atharva-vedis were most probably 'over-taken' by the Yajur-vedis in the period of the grihasutras. Manusmrithi specifically mentions temple-priests but possibly Manu (most probably a rig-vedi or a yajur-vedi brahmin) did not consider the atharva-vedis as brahmins either.

Manu uses the word devalaykan for temple-priests and not brahmana (similar to how temple-priests are called in Srilanka as devarala). These temple-priests were most likely not offering oblations to the 'vedic devas' (the 33 vedic devas). Instead they must have been temple-priests of Shiva, Krishna, Durga, Narayana, etc temples.

Manu must have considered these temple priests inferior and hence he avoided temple-priests from sacrifices to gods and manes (exactly like how the shisnadevas were kept away from the vedic-worship in the rigveda) :

Manu.3.152. Physicians, temple-priests ( देवलकान) , sellers of meat, and those who subsist by shop-keeping must be avoided at sacrifices offered to the gods and to the manes.

[My note: one thing is clear from this -- temple-priests were not reponsible for creation of smrithis / social-segregation / caste-system].

Temple / Idol worship is certainly ancient and also vedic. Just that it is so ancient that perhaps its roots are untraceble now.

Since we are talking about one "vedic" group fighting against another "vedic" group (and how one perceived the other), i feel there was no AIT.

Hope the agamas are researched for their links with the atharva-veda.

Regards.
 
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We were talking about energizing the idol. Another way of doing it is through installation of Yantras. A particular Yantra is installed and the deity is invoked through Pranaprathishta and Avahanam with a particular mantra. This mantra is called Moola Mantra. The Yantra and Moola Mantra differs from deity to deity. This especially true in the case of Devi temples. In some of the temples they also installed Jana Akarshana Yantra to draw the Public.

Coming back to the temples of existing forces, this is time to consider how some of the temples especially those of the indigenous people were taken over and the deity absorbed into Hinduism. The indigenous people did not have any specific form or name for their Deity. When they came into contact with learned Hindus, they gave a name for their deity. Like Vindhya Vasini in Uttar Pradesh. Sometimes they also assisted the indigenous people in installation of an idol. Since almost all the people want only a Protective deity it was either Durga or Kali.

The indigenous people considered all unknown forces to be both benign and malign. They thought that the force protected them and also will punish them if angered. So a lot of rituals to please the deity and also stories about the deity getting angry and punishing people.

But the more sophisticated Hindu started classifying the deities as Ugra and Sowmya. But this made no sense to the village people who continued to worship the deities.

The Moola mantra and the classification of the deities have led to a change in the system of worship of the deities in Tamil Nadu and Kerala.

In my next post we will see why the Sri Chakra was installed in Devi temples in Tamil Nadu and Kerala and whether it represented Brahminization of the village deities.
 
Coming back to the temples of existing forces, this is time to consider how some of the temples especially those of the indigenous people were taken over and the deity absorbed into Hinduism. The indigenous people did not have any specific form or name for their Deity. When they came into contact with learned Hindus, they gave a name for their deity. Like Vindhya Vasini in Uttar Pradesh. Sometimes they also assisted the indigenous people in installation of an idol. Since almost all the people want only a Protective deity it was either Durga or Kali.
Dear Sir,

I would like to make a few notes reg the above. In this post, am referring to a time period when indigenous temples were not ‘taken over’. Instead indigenous people themselves were part of ‘vedic’ culture. This possibly is the Megalithic period of clan-based societies.

Shall start with the terminology and move to symbolism and mythology / history. The term “nayanmar” is apparently derived from the dravidian root “nai”, meaning dog [Source: SN Sadashivan in his book “A Social History of India”].

The nayanmars were “hounds of Shiva”. A “nayan” was one who had dog-like loyalty to Shiva. Sadashivan writes that the terms nayan and nayar meant a “teacher” (guru) for devout Shaivites. This was the bhakti tradition.

In the warrior tradition, we find a group of Yadavas styled as Kukuras (kukura in Sanskrit means dog). More info on them is available here: Yadava - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, loyalty to god apart, eating dog-meat was confined to the ‘lowest of the lows’. Here, we will speak of these ‘lowly’ people here, from mythology or hindu-history.

Harivamsa apparently is associated with a clan of dogs. The story goes that a Ikshvaku prince named Satyavrata was exiled by his father for a crime.

In the forest during a drought, Satyavrata kills a cow belonging to Vashista to save Vishwamitra’s wife and son Galava from starvation (they were obviously eating beef during this time period).

Angered by the theft, Vashista curses Satyavrata to become a man who cooks and eats dog’s meat (svapaka).

Satyavrata goes to Vishwamitra for help. But Vashista’s 100 sons get wind of this ‘kshatriya conspiracy’. They curse Vishwamitra that one day he too will become a svapaka.

Vishwamitra counter-curses Vashista’s 100 sons that they will be born for 700 lifetimes as the outcaste race of Mustikas. Vishwamitra then kills all the 100 sons of Vashista using his tapas (meditative) energy, and from then on the curse comes into effect. The story is related here: THE VALMIKI RAMAYANA

This apparently relates to the itihasa time period when there was an intense power-struggle between the Brahmins and Kshatriyas. Manu (later) defined Svapaka as a product between a Kshatri father + Ugra mother.

In the Aitareya Brahmana (AB) of the Rigveda, Vishwamitra also cursed his own 50 sons to become svapakas after they refused to accept Sunhashepa as the eldest (adopted) son of Vishamitra. To these 50 sons, accepting Sunhashepa was like usurpation of their position.

However, these 50 sons had to live out their curse and they became the founders of the udantiya groups. The Saoras / Savara tribe is notable as the outcaste sons of Vishwamitra as mentioned in the AB. This was obviously an ancient tribal age.

In the hindu context, commentators mention that these stories indicate blurring of varna-lines in an ancient past (in the vedic age itself) to an extreme length, wherein people of ‘low origin’ moved up the varna ladder and became part of the vedic terms ‘kshatriyas’ and ‘brahmanas’.

Undoubtedly these events must have affected worship practices. As people moved up the varna ladder they may have evolved their gods, from a tribalistic form to the popular form. Like Ekanamsha became Durga / Uma.

In an ancient period of cave paintings a mother goddess was represented like this: Kamat's Potpourri: The Mother Goddess This mother goddess was not yet Durga / Kali / Uma or even Ekanamsha at this time. But later ‘She’ came to become identified as such.

As regards ancientness of varna cross-over events, and possible time period when the 'gods' evolved, please note the list of curses and images here (Page 86): http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=glmjo9UrP2YC&pg=PA86&dq=source+crime+outcaste+group+produced+Mbh+1.165&hl=en&ei=J5VwTbPmBoHmvQOuyK2-AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=source%20crime%20outcaste%20group%20produced%20Mbh%201.165&f=false

In the link, please note pictures showing possible cognates (cynocephalis) of svapakas in german mythology on Page 86. It is certainly an ancient period.

A possible cognate from Egyptian mythology is shown on plate 4 (page 86 of the above link). It depicts 4 dog-faced baboons worshipping the sun in the Ramses II dynasty. In that, the Egyptians merged the totemic dog and monkey within one iconic human representation as sun-worshippers. In Rigveda, Surya (sun) is described as a hound (dog) of the sky / heaven (dyaus pita).

Understandably the earliest object of worship may have been the sun / nature elements.

There may have been forced amalgamations also in the vedic period itself. The yatis (ya= to go, yat = strive) were ascetics mentioned in the atharva-veda. Indra apparently had the yatis thrown to the shalavarkas (house wolves or hyenas). Commentaries mention that the yatis were non-aryan.

In a later period the yatis merged into the mainstream vedic culture. When and how it happened we don’t know. It is a mystery. But it may even be possible that parts of the atharva-veda (after being nearly destroyed) were supplanted with Rig / Yajur oblations. It is just a speculation though. No one knows what really happened.

No one knows whom the yatis worshipped. They were renouncers and explorers. They may have even been atheist or agnostic dasyus with Krsna as their leader.

Amalgamation between cultures did happen. Idol worship is ancient. The popular gods we worship today are themselves of tribal origin. And we are the indigenous people ourselves who worshipped elements of nature and tribal gods once upon a time.

Regards.
 
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Dear Sir,

Shall start with the terminology and move to symbolism and mythology / history. The term “nayanmar” is apparently derived from the dravidian root “nai”, meaning dog [Source: SN Sadashivan in his book “A Social History of India”].

Smt. HH,

I have usually found that when you give the link to a particular page in googlebooks, it just does not make it available; will you kindly give, instead, the url for the front cover and then the page number to be referred to?

No one knows whom the yatis worshipped. They were renouncers and explorers. They may have even been atheist or agnostic dasyus with Krsna as their leader.
I think you had broached this point (dasyu with Krishna as their leader) earlier also. I did not save that post. Can you give the link, pl.

Amalgamation between cultures did happen. Idol worship is ancient. The popular gods we worship today are themselves of tribal origin. And we are the indigenous people ourselves who worshipped elements of nature and tribal gods once upon a time.
I would say "we are born from both those who worshipped the natural elements and also those native people who worshipped their tribal, totemic, gods due to intermixing." Will you disagree?
 
Thank you, HH, for your excellent articles on the origin of Idol worship, Gods/Goddesses and temple worship.

I would be concentrating on some of the puzzles about temple worship like

1. The evolution of the worship of particular Gods/goddesses. Mostly Goddesses.

2. Why do we find worship of goddesses more widely spread especially among the village people and lower classes?

3. How did the so called folk deities/village gods originate?

4. How some of these goddesses were absorbed in main stream Hinduism? The problems faced during such absorption.

5. How the absorption has happened in different parts of India. The benefits derived and the draw backs.

6. How the mode of worship and sometimes the Deity itself has changed at times with particular reference to Tamil Nadu and Kerala.

I was laying the background information for finding an answer these questions. The information provided by you would be very useful in finding the answers.
 
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