Advice to Parents - Arrange for Inter-Brahmin marriage

We have been discussing Inter-caste marriages in many threads. Most of these are love marriages.

There are hundreds of Sub castes among Brahmins in India. We have discussed in detail the problems in getting Brides in the Tamil Brahmin community.

Are we ready to look at Brides form the other Brahmin communities? Some years back, I had discussed the inter-Brahmin marriages during my visit to Pandharpur in Maharashtra. I found that among my Brahmin friends there, there is a feeling that such marriages should be encouraged. This is confirmed by my interaction with other Brahmins like Maithili and Sarayuparin Brahmins.

All the Brahmins in India share common values.

1. Belief in the Vedas/Puranas.

2. Belief in Santhya Vandanam and other rituals.

Take the case of Maharashtrian Brahmins. Their customs and traditions are basically like us. In fact it is difficult to distinguish between a Maharashtrian and Kannada Brahmins.

Even Brahmins from Gadwal have a lot in common with us.

So why do we not widen our search for Brides to include Brahmins from all over India?

You can always talk about differences. But then if you look for commonality you will find so may. You look for differences, You will find many. Unfortunately we always look for differences.

It is time for all the Brahmins in India to unite. You can contribute to that Unity by getting a Sarayuparin Brahmin Bride for your son.

Saryupareen Brahmins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sankara_sharmah Sir,

I fully endorse your view.

There 5.6 cr brahmins throughout India and it is right time to have inter-brahmin marriages speaking various languages.

As you rightly said practices vary little bit but culture and customs are more or less same.

Right now there is shortage of girls in Tamil Brahmin community and this could be overcome if our boys are permitted by their parents to marry brahmin girls speaking other languages.

I have suggested this earlier in our forum and I wish further deliberations takes place now.

All the best

sankara_sharmah said:

....You can always talk about differences. But then if you look for commonality you will find so may. You look for differences, You will find many. Unfortunately we always look for differences.

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Folks, the above applies even more between TB and many TNB. There is so much that unites TB and TNB than what separates them. So, let us look at the commonality that exists next door, don't look at the differences. When you have butter in your hand, no need to look for நெய் in far off places.

Cheers!

sankara_sharmah said:

Are we ready to look at Brides form the other Brahmin communities?

All the Brahmins in India share common values.

1. Belief in the Vedas/Puranas.

2. Belief in Santhya Vandanam and other rituals.

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Not at all. There are many brahmins who maintain a lot of their culture without belief or with limited belief in the above two areas. Are you suggesting they be excluded?

Take the case of Maharashtrian Brahmins. Their customs and traditions are basically like us. In fact it is difficult to distinguish between a Maharashtrian and Kannada Brahmins.

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In my extended family, people married Kannada brahmins even at the time of independence. Many of them can speak or understand Tamil which is a plus.

So why do we not widen our search for Brides to include Brahmins from all over India?

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Fine. But it should not be out of compulsion because TB brides are not available. Then the bride may start off with an inferiority complex knowing she was selected as the last choice which is not good for the marriage.

Nara said:

Folks, the above applies even more between TB and many TNB. There is so much that unites TB and TNB than what separates them. So, let us look at the commonality that exists next door, don't look at the differences. When you have butter in your hand, no need to look for நெய் in far off places.

Cheers!

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The question here is very simple. Are you a Brahmin first and a Tamil next? Or a Tamil first and then a Brahmin?

However you may answer the question, the fact is that Brahmins are not accepted as Tamils in Tamil Nadu. There is deep rooted prejudice which can not be simply wished away. The hatred is ingested along with Mother's milk.

Tamil Brahmin girls may find it easier to get Non-Brahmin Grooms. But the Brahmin boys will find it next to impossible to get Brides from other castes(excepting the rich and affluent who belong to a separate caste).

By the way I am talking about arranged marriages and not Love marriages.

Again one of the major factors which separates us from others is Vegetarianism. Almost all the Brahmins in India (except Bengalis) are Vegetarians.

Nara said:

Folks, the above applies even more between TB and many TNB.

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As real as pigs fly. :flypig:

There is so much that unites TB and TNB than what separates them.

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Yes. I can clearly picture TNB standing in line to surrender their reservation quota to TB, even as all the TB give up their sandyavandhanams to form a line for breaking coconuts before all EVR statues in the state. :whoo:

what is TB and what is TNB?

ksugavanam said:

what is TB and what is TNB?

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hi sugavanam sir,
TB means tamil brahmin...TNB means TAMIL NON BRAHMIN...means
kaadal saivama? illai asivama? means saivam and asaivam ..thats all...

regards
tbs

Sri.Sankara Sharma said:-

You can always talk about differences. But then if you look for commonality you will find so may. You look for differences, You will find many. Unfortunately we always look for differences.

It is time for all the Brahmins in India to unite. You can contribute to that Unity by getting a Sarayuparin Brahmin Bride for your son.

Click to expand...

Sri.Sankara Sharma,

The policy of Hinduism is 'Vasudeva Kudumbakam'. This is what we are saying to the westerners. If we are not not just providing 'lip services', then we should live up to that claim. We should extend our relationship to the whole humanity. After all, we look the same under the skin irrespective of the nationality, colour of skin or religion. I have seen that. We all bleed the same way (depending upon our meduications like aspirin intake, some bleed more than the other though), most of us have the same anatomy ...do you get my drift?

Cheers!

sankara's call should be welcomed. it may not strive to the concept of vasudeva kutumbam, but atleast, as a tactical measure, will attempt to solve vasudevan's son's non existent kutumbam.

we make a big assumption here, is that other brahmin communities will welcome with open arms. that remains to be seen. i do not know if there are surplus of girls in the other brahmin communities.

if so, i think, the comparatively fairer skinned boys might get lucky. i do not hold the same promise for our darker brothers, sons or uncles, with 'dravidian' features. i am not deriding anyone, but openly expressing, what is a closed mouth acceptance, even in our swayamvarams.

such is the extent of our racism. we are programmed against each other's skin colours, though all of us are darkies. why doesn't nobody talk about that.

for example, take the pictures of our swayamvarams, and statistically prove that our dravidian lookalike brahmins have the same wedding offers as our lighter skinned ones, everything else being equal.

in this context, nara's call for seeking the butter within our neighbourhood than the ghee from afar, makes more sense. probably we will land up with more successes too. personally i have friends of mudaliar and pillai families, whose ways of life are very similar to ours.

also, i think, arranged marriages, on a practical level, across castes is a tough proposition to start with. one thousand and one questions arises in the mind of the seekee. why can't the seeker find someone within his own community? tough honest answers may scare away the girls people, whether they be brahmins from other states, and TNBs.

it may be more practical to get a wife from the phillipines, where there is a huge ratio in favour of the females. the filipino girls are very docile and much more adjustable to their man's needs than any other asian community that i know of. this comes out of poverty and overpopulation and lack of opportunities. just go to the web and check out. do a trial query and be surprised by the numbers of responses. :couch2:

kunjuppu said:

sankara's call should be welcomed.

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Appada! Finally an opportunity to reflect on the real issues facing our community and society.

if so, i think, the comparatively fairer skinned boys might get lucky. i do not hold the same promise for our darker brothers, sons or uncles, with 'dravidian' features. i am not deriding anyone, but openly expressing, what is a closed mouth acceptance, even in our swayamvarams.

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Yes. Racism is one of the bitter truths in all communities across India. One could say that it is the glue that binds Indians! Yet we would rather flog a deadhorse like reservation or vedic rituals. :deadhorse:

such is the extent of our racism. we are programmed against each other's skin colours, though all of us are darkies. why doesn't nobody talk about that.

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Because we don't like to face it.

for example, take the pictures of our swayamvarams, and statistically prove that our dravidian lookalike brahmins have the same wedding offers as our lighter skinned ones, everything else being equal.

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Too obvious a reality for statistics. Even the the fact that girls suffer more than boys may not need statistical proof.

personally i have friends of mudaliar and pillai families, whose ways of life are very similar to ours.

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Yes though between mudaliars and saiva pillais, we are talking probably about another 4 or 5 % of the population only.

why can't the seeker find someone within his own community? tough honest answers may scare away the girls people, whether they be brahmins from other states, and TNBs.

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Here my experience has been that brahmins from other states are more readily accepted by TB. Cast binds more than language. And if people know English, language becomes even less of an issue.

t may be more practical to get a wife from the phillipines, where there is a huge ratio in favour of the females.

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I would not expect a rush to the phillipines to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. :wave:

Kunjuppu ji/Iyest Sir,

Racism is not reflected during swayamvarams based on skin colour. But Salary levels matters very much.

The present trend is girls are well qualified and are drawing decent salaries. But few boys in the swayamvaram function match these girls. In fact a suggestion has come from a boy's parent that we should conduct swayamvaram for different salaried groups separately which is not possible at the present moment.

Most of the parents in Tamilnadu doesn't even want to get out of sub-caste syndrome. Suggesting inter-caste marriages is not going to work at this point of time since there are few takers of the proposal.

But informally we are telling the boy's parents who are most affected at this point of time to look for brahmin girls speaking other languages which is not resisted at least.

Language is not a problem since most of our boys speak Hindi and the girls from other states also speak English. Since vegetarianism and vedic culture is the binding for both, it may work out successfully. Our boys will eat roti/Chappathi and the girl may start liking Idli/Dosa.

Population of brahmins are highest in the Northern India. UP, Uttranchal, Delhi, Himachal are all having more than 10% brahmin population and it is better to try out in such areas. Karnataka has more brahmin population and most of the Bangalorians speak Tamil.

Let us try this as a first step.

All the best

RVR said:

The present trend is girls are well qualified and are drawing decent salaries. But few boys in the swayamvaram function match these girls. In fact a suggestion has come from a boy's parent that we should conduct swayamvaram for different salaried groups separately which is not possible at the present moment.

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RVR, Thank you for the information. It is another sad story why our community has become so money minded. I have come across a few families (not many, I confess) willing to consider a person's character more than wealth and status. Having swayamvarams for different economic levels will eliminate whatever little chance of that from happening.

Suggesting inter-caste marriages is not going to work at this point of time since there are few takers of the proposal.

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This is exactly as many predicted here.

Language is not a problem since most of our boys speak Hindi and the girls from other states also speak English. Since vegetarianism and vedic culture is the binding for both, it may work out successfully. Our boys will eat roti/Chappathi and the girl may start liking Idli/Dosa.

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Even this adjustment is for short term. Most of their children (except from poor families) will grow up eating pizza and fried rice anyway!

Inter-caste arranged marriages among the forward communities are increasingly becoming popular especially in the North and East, especially among the upper middle class.

There is one very important fact of life which the Tamil Brahmins have to live with. The other forward communities in Tamil Nadu have been more virulent in their attacks on Brahmins than either the SCs or OBCs. They have in fact nurtured/are nurturing the anti Brahmin movement.

I have noticed this during my years of service in Tamil Nadu.

This has not happened in any other state. The anti-reservation movement in the North was led mainly by non-Brahmin forward communities. This never happened in Tamil Nadu.

This is what makes arranged inter-caste marriages well neigh impossible in Tamil Nadu. The hatred runs very deep.

Thank you, Kunjuppu, RVR and others.

I know that this is easier said than done. But I was only mooting the idea for parents to mull over.

For starters why do we not consider the Desastha/Konknastha Marathi Brahmins who have settled down in Tamil Nadu. They speak Tamil (many of them better Tamil than myself), know our traditions and rituals.

I did not find their names in the Naveena Swayamvara. They are mostly from the Tanjore region.

I will present my point of view on some of the points raised later.

Sankara Sharmah Sir,

My comments are in blue.

sankara_sharmah said:

Inter-caste arranged marriages among the forward communities are increasingly becoming popular especially in the North and East, especially among the upper middle class.

Once economic disparities reduces, this is bound to happen and nobody can prevent it. More and more non-brahmins in Tamilnadu are turning to vegetarianism and spiritual life style. This will only encourage intercaste marriages in the future along with economic prosperity.

There is one very important fact of life which the Tamil Brahmins have to live with. The other forward communities in Tamil Nadu have been more virulent in their attacks on Brahmins than either the SCs or OBCs. They have in fact nurtured/are nurturing the anti Brahmin movement.

Mudaliar community in Tamilnadu are responsible for the anti-brahmin movement in Tamilnadu. But Mudaliars have lost influence in all the Dravidian parties. Only leader worth mentioning right now is Finance Minister Anbazhagan but he is aged and is just holding the post of General Secretary of DMK. Only Chief Minister Karunanidhi & his family controls DMK.

Eventhough EVR belongs to Naidu community, he doesn't have much of followers from his own community. Most of the Naidus are God fearing and doesn't get involved in caste politics. Even Vaiko (belongs to Naidu community) is not indulging in caste politics and was the only politician from Tamilnadu to take principled stand when Kanchi Sankaracharya was arrested.

But anti-brahminism has not helped daliths and most backward classes in Tamilnadu . But the momentum could not be stopped for various political considerations.

I have noticed this during my years of service in Tamil Nadu.

This has not happened in any other state. The anti-reservation movement in the North was led mainly by non-Brahmin forward communities. This never happened in Tamil Nadu.

This is what makes arranged inter-caste marriages well neigh impossible in Tamil Nadu. The hatred runs very deep.

As you rightly pointed out, the Brahmin hatred in Tamil Nadu has created deep wounds in the Brahmin community which could not be erased over night.

During freedom struggle, Brahmins in Tamilnadu lead the movement from the front and made lot of sacrifices. Veera Vanchi even sacrificed his life.But nothing is appreciated and Brahmins also have learn t to live with it.

Normally Tamil Brahmin community would have done lot of social service for the entire community but are forced to become selfish due to the anti-brahmin movement. Now more than 80% of the TB community are managing themselves with decent income.

People like me are forced to think whether to work for the remaining 20% of our community or for the entire community. I am trying to do service for both but at the back of my mind, brahmin hatred has created so much wound, I don't want to leave my community in the rest of my life.

Dravidian movement and brahmin hatred are squarely responsible for such a thinking to arise in the minds of brahmins who are more interested in the welfare of the entire society.

All the best

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sankara_sharmah said:

The other forward communities in Tamil Nadu have been more virulent in their attacks on Brahmins than either the SCs or OBCs. They have in fact nurtured/are nurturing the anti Brahmin movement.

I have noticed this during my years of service in Tamil Nadu.

This has not happened in any other state. The anti-reservation movement in the North was led mainly by non-Brahmin forward communities. This never happened in Tamil Nadu.

Click to expand...

Sir,

This post has nothing to do with the marriage issue coz its each one's personal, private stuff.

Its the hatered remarks you are making that i do not quite understand.

Each one of us is a product of our circumstance, so probably you have met people in your everday life who caused you to develop the dislike. But sir, wud you say all of them are the same?

Today taking care of brahmins means only two things:

1) Prevent the non-brahmin from veda vidya...no matter how illogical it is.

2) Tempt out all existing brahmins from their traditional profession and make them into high flying people. I thot the demand for priests is high enuf to make them have a good income and a decent life; or not? Instead of funding them well, and making them rich, to enable them to continue with the same profession, the idea is to remove them out of their call.

Anything that does not agree with the above two is called anti-brahmanism / brahmin hatered.

What sir, wud you think, are the solutions to the state of social dis ease?

Please leave out admission to veda patshalas for the "inferiors" - the vox populi, shri rvr, represented almost everyone in turning it down; but anyways forget it, am keen to hear of solutions from you.

Thanks.

Just as an aside someone pointed out as a joke how Filipino women are ideal as they are "docile", though I do get the spirit of the joke, it shows how male-chauvinistic the society is! A "docile" bride is ideal .. sad!

Anyway on the topic, its a welcome idea - but as people have pointed out, one should be all-welcoming, not just other Indians of the same caste or creed or whatever- as long as two people unite, its fine, even if people choose to remain single its their wish.

But I do agree this is a small step towards this narrow-minded society opening eyes and accepting other cultures and societies.

after seeing the post above, i am reminded of 1 thing.

its a good idea to have the ip adress of the poster put up next to the username - for all posters - old and new.

if anyone wants to say anything, please say it boldly and clearly..

and i thot i was the only fool who had to hide behind a palindrome in the past..

but then, we all grow up, don't we..

@Happyhindu

Palindrome? You possibly mean the pseudoname I use, well as you point out so are you

Well I feel its not that important as to who I am rather than what I say.

IP addresses next to posters is a strict no-no, a breach of privacy I would call it. Privacy over the internet is a very grave concern nowadays.

sankara_sharmah said:

Thank you, Kunjuppu, RVR and others.

I know that this is easier said than done. But I was only mooting the idea for parents to mull over.

For starters why do we not consider the Desastha/Konknastha Marathi Brahmins who have settled down in Tamil Nadu. They speak Tamil (many of them better Tamil than myself), know our traditions and rituals.

I did not find their names in the Naveena Swayamvara. They are mostly from the Tanjore region.

I will present my point of view on some of the points raised later.

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In the Chennai Swayamvaram function, I had a call from a Marathi brahmin community member willing to participate. We gladly accepted and I presume they would have participated.

We are keeping our swayamvaram functions open to all sects of brahmin community and are not restricting it to Tamilbrahmins alone.

All the best

RVR said:

In the Chennai Swayamvaram function, I had a call from a Marathi brahmin community member willing to participate. We gladly accepted and I presume they would have participated.

We are keeping our swayamvaram functions open to all sects of brahmin community and are not restricting it to Tamilbrahmins alone.

All the best

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Thank you. Happy to know about that.

happyhindu said:

Sir,

This post has nothing to do with the marriage issue coz its each one's personal, private stuff.

Its the hatered remarks you are making that i do not quite understand.

Each one of us is a product of our circumstance, so probably you have met people in your everday life who caused you to develop the dislike. But sir, wud you say all of them are the same?

Today taking care of brahmins means only two things:

1) Prevent the non-brahmin from veda vidya...no matter how illogical it is.

2) Tempt out all existing brahmins from their traditional profession and make them into high flying people. I thot the demand for priests is high enuf to make them have a good income and a decent life; or not? Instead of funding them well, and making them rich, to enable them to continue with the same profession, the idea is to remove them out of their call.

Anything that does not agree with the above two is called anti-brahmanism / brahmin hatered.

What sir, wud you think, are the solutions to the state of social dis ease?

Please leave out admission to veda patshalas for the "inferiors" - the vox populi, shri rvr, represented almost everyone in turning it down; but anyways forget it, am keen to hear of solutions from you.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Nowhere in the world you can see public hoardings saying `Parpanar Ozhiga' except probably Tamilnadu.

In the public meetings of Dravidar Kazhagam and others, brahmins are abused liberally without any resistance.

There are lot of news papers,magazines and TV media deliberately abusing brahmins on a regular basis in Tamilnadu.

If the above is not brahmin hatred, then what else can you call it as hatred.

Irrespective of whatever happened in the past, no brahmin is abusing any other community now a days.

Today Mayavathi got elected as Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh mainly with the support of Brahmins. Sathish Chandra Mishra who organised support of UP Brahmins in Mayavathi's favour has even vocated ministerial post offered by Mayavathi.

Again and again talking about Vedha Patasalas run by the followers of Kanchi Mutt is of no use and is not at all relevant here.. Recently I came across a Vedha Patasala run by Smartha Brahmin community members. They clearly told me that they don't accept donations from anybody other than smartha brahmin community and Kanchi Mutt has no role in the day to day administration. Only when Kanchi Acharyas visit the area, they make a courtesy visit to the Vedha Patasala. It is purely a private affair run by a particular sect in which other people don't have any role. I am deliberately not giving address of the Vedha Patasala here since it can become a target of physical attack in the future.

Just like Pandits driven out of Kashmir by force, Tamil Brahmins are leaving Tamilnadu because of the hatred policy of the Government and its supporters.

Any way Tamil Brahmin community is not the loser of this hatred policy and they are migrating globally without hindrance to any other community in Tamilnadu.

All the best

RVR said:

Nowhere in the world you can see public hoardings saying `Parpanar Ozhiga' except probably Tamilnadu.

In the public meetings of Dravidar Kazhagam and others, brahmins are abused liberally without any resistance.

There are lot of news papers,magazines and TV media deliberately abusing brahmins on a regular basis in Tamilnadu.

If the above is not brahmin hatred, then what else can you call it as hatred.

Irrespective of whatever happened in the past, no brahmin is abusing any other community now a days.

Today Mayavathi got elected as Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh mainly with the support of Brahmins. Sathish Chandra Mishra who organised support of UP Brahmins in Mayavathi's favour has even vocated ministerial post offered by Mayavathi.

Again and again talking about Vedha Patasalas run by the followers of Kanchi Mutt is of no use and is not at all relevant here.. Recently I came across a Vedha Patasala run by Smartha Brahmin community members. They clearly told me that they don't accept donations from anybody other than smartha brahmin community and Kanchi Mutt has no role in the day to day administration. Only when Kanchi Acharyas visit the area, they make a courtesy visit to the Vedha Patasala. It is purely a private affair run by a particular sect in which other people don't have any role. I am deliberately not giving address of the Vedha Patasala here since it can become a target of physical attack in the future.

Just like Pandits driven out of Kashmir by force, Tamil Brahmins are leaving Tamilnadu because of the hatred policy of the Government and its supporters.

Any way Tamil Brahmin community is not the loser of this hatred policy and they are migrating globally without hindrance to any other community in Tamilnadu.

All the best

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* Am not talking about politicians and political parties. If you give someone 100 ruppes to shout somehting for 10 min, he will do the job for the politician.

*Am not talking about kanchi patshalas either. Am talking only about veda vidya from any veda patshala. I do not wish to talk about kanchi patshalas in future also. So please do not bring that into the scene.

*I do not think TBs are emigrating specifically bcoz of the reasons you have given. If that were the reason, why are NBs emigrating? Obviously it is the enticement of the dollar, better opportunities and a better life.

*Victimhood attitude will not help. Solutions will.